Satan has better things to do...

[misterguss]

I have been trying to figure out how much of a direct role satan has in influencing my life...and in any other Christians life...so please share your thoughts!!!

I guess the big issue I am trying to figure out is how much of a direct role vs. an indirect role he has in my life. Since I became a Christian 5 years ago, I know I have the Holy Spirit in my life...therefore, I cannot be directly influenced by satan or any of his demons.

Yet I hear many Christians say that they are always praying that satan will not influence them, or that satan is trying to bring them down, or satan is causing them to sin...how can this be if they have the Holy Spirit indwelling them?

So if satan and his demons do not have a direct role in my life (influencing my thoughts and actions) because I have the Holy Spirit, then how much of an indirect role do they have? Would he use just non-christians & the media or would he have more of an influence...like bringing specific non-christians into my life to try and bring me down...

I know satan has a limited number of demons, so I'm guessing he would be strategic in using his demons and not waste his time trying to influence me because I am nothing in this world...I have no money or power...wouldn't he try to use his demons to indirectly influence christians with lots of power and money to make a larger negative impact...and/or non-christians to make trouble with christians (i.e.- extreme muslims)?

If satan did use one of his demons to try and indirectly influence me, doesn't God have angels that would "watch my back?"

When it comes down to it, I think these Christians like to blame their sins on satan's influence and not take responsibility for allowing their sin nature to be resurrected...what do all of you peoples think?

[Jawa Man]

When it comes down to it, I think these Christians like to blame their sins on satan's influence and not take responsibility for allowing their sin nature to be resurrected...what do all of you peoples think?
I noticed that, too. I have friends who used to (and may still) think that Satan or the Enemy in general influences their every desire to sin, and whenever they feel temptation coming they rebuke Satan. I do believe the Enemy does intice, and can operate even in Christians, but I don't think he is to blame for everything.

Interesting story, though sort of off-topic: I have a friend who has visions a lot in his dreams of demons, or something like them. Freaky stuff sometimes, like I just watched a scary movie at 8 years old. I'll first tell one that is actually relevant to your question, if Satan can somehow do stuff to us. I say yes, and not just because of this story, but I will tell it anyway-

This summer the youth group went to Six Flags, up near Niagara Falls. This one girl, who's a good friend of mine, was in a huge slump spiritually, and I really had my patience tested around her because she was a constant jerk. While we were walking one day (with my friend who has those dreams) she said she had a dream that all of us would get hurt and die somehow from the rides. I didn't think anything of it and laughed it off and made a joke out of it, but she was really distressed by it. A few nights later my dream friend, while we were camping out and everyone else was asleep, that he felt they both needed to pray about the dreams, because he sensed her dream was there because of evil workings. She was very hostile and resistant, because her slump had made her unable to pray and quick to anger. For a long time he argued with her to pray, and finally she agreed, but then he said she had to mean it. This angered her, but after another long time she did sincerely. And they prayed for hours. Now earlier that day she got a concussion by getting her head slammed by a trunk on a spring. I walked with her all day. And it was incredibly hard to not get her to go on any rides, and even to get her to First Aid was a pain, but God gave me patience. Finally at a concert she ran up to the front in rebellion to me, getting her head pounded by the sound. I finally gave up at that point (about 10 hours after the concussion) and let her do it. Anyway, after praying, she felt great. They prayed until, in my dream friend's words, "we felt God telling us we didn't need to anymore". They walked back to the tents, and she noticed that he head no longer hurt and she could see correctly again. And they were both joyful and all that. And then I remember the next day she kept saying, over and over, "God is good!" and saying she loved him. I would have been disturbed, I think, if I were a weaker Christian, because she was acting freaky, but it was because she hadn't been happy in a long time. Praise God for that miracle! Two healings - her heart and her head.

There are verses that I think support demon stuff, but I don't know any keywords to find them with. It's about the guy who had demons, they left, got a clean house, and then the demons brought some friends with them to mess up the house again.

[misterguss]

I do believe the Enemy does intice, and can operate even in Christians
Why do you think satan can operate in Christians? Do you have any specific verses to back up this thought? Do you believe that Christians can be possessed by demons?

[Jawa Man]

Why do you think satan can operate in Christians? Do you have any specific verses to back up this thought? Do you believe that Christians can be possessed by demons?
It is really just my opinion of course, and it is based on certain verses, but I don't hold my view as true because I'm sinful and fallible. I just want to make sure we're not arguing over who's right, because as far as I'm concerned I'm probably already wrong.

"When the unclean spirit has gone out of a person, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, and finding none it says, 'I will return to my house from which I came.' And when it comes, it finds the house swept and put in order. Then it goes and brings seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they enter and dwell there. And the last state of that person is worse than the first."
(Luke 11:24-26)

Actually now that I see it, I think I may be taking it out of context. If you could show me how, I'd appreciate it.

Anyway, I think this verse shows a saved guy getting freed, then demons coming back for the attack. I could be wrong, of course. But I believe this simply because I don't have evidence against it that I know of from the Bible or any Church tradition. But show me if I'm wrong about that.

[Alberta girl]

I have been trying to figure out how much of a direct role satan has in influencing my life...and in any other Christians life...so please share your thoughts!!!

I guess the big issue I am trying to figure out is how much of a direct role vs. an indirect role he has in my life. Since I became a Christian 5 years ago, I know I have the Holy Spirit in my life...therefore, I cannot be directly influenced by satan or any of his demons.

Yet I hear many Christians say that they are always praying that satan will not influence them, or that satan is trying to bring them down, or satan is causing them to sin...how can this be if they have the Holy Spirit indwelling them?

So if satan and his demons do not have a direct role in my life (influencing my thoughts and actions) because I have the Holy Spirit, then how much of an indirect role do they have? Would he use just non-christians & the media or would he have more of an influence...like bringing specific non-christians into my life to try and bring me down...

I know satan has a limited number of demons, so I'm guessing he would be strategic in using his demons and not waste his time trying to influence me because I am nothing in this world...I have no money or power...wouldn't he try to use his demons to indirectly influence christians with lots of power and money to make a larger negative impact...and/or non-christians to make trouble with christians (i.e.- extreme muslims)?

If satan did use one of his demons to try and indirectly influence me, doesn't God have angels that would "watch my back?"

When it comes down to it, I think these Christians like to blame their sins on satan's influence and not take responsibility for allowing their sin nature to be resurrected...what do all of you peoples think?
A finite number could still be three or four times the number of people on the earth at any given time. If I hated someone, and I couldn't hurt them, the next best thing would be to hurt someone they love. Like when a person kills their own child to spite their estranged spouse. I might be indwelt with the Holy Spirit, but if I'm not paying attention to His/It's leading, I am open to the deceptions of the devil. I think satan hates the creatures God loves. Thank you for letting me share.

[rhutchin]

I have been trying to figure out how much of a direct role satan has in influencing my life...and in any other Christians life...so please share your thoughts!!!

I guess the big issue I am trying to figure out is how much of a direct role vs. an indirect role he has in my life. Since I became a Christian 5 years ago, I know I have the Holy Spirit in my life...therefore, I cannot be directly influenced by satan or any of his demons.

Yet I hear many Christians say that they are always praying that satan will not influence them, or that satan is trying to bring them down, or satan is causing them to sin...how can this be if they have the Holy Spirit indwelling them?

So if satan and his demons do not have a direct role in my life (influencing my thoughts and actions) because I have the Holy Spirit, then how much of an indirect role do they have? Would he use just non-christians & the media or would he have more of an influence...like bringing specific non-christians into my life to try and bring me down...

I know satan has a limited number of demons, so I'm guessing he would be strategic in using his demons and not waste his time trying to influence me because I am nothing in this world...I have no money or power...wouldn't he try to use his demons to indirectly influence christians with lots of power and money to make a larger negative impact...and/or non-christians to make trouble with christians (i.e.- extreme muslims)?

If satan did use one of his demons to try and indirectly influence me, doesn't God have angels that would "watch my back?"

When it comes down to it, I think these Christians like to blame their sins on satan's influence and not take responsibility for allowing their sin nature to be resurrected...what do all of you peoples think?

James 1
13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted by evil, and he himself tempts no one.
14 But each one is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desires.
15 Then when desire conceives, it gives birth to sin, and when sin is full grown, it gives birth to death.

If we are not tempted by God, then we are tempted by evil (or Satan). The problem is that no one can be tempted to do that which they have no desire to do. Satan tempts people to do those things which people know are wrong but that they want to do. For example, Satan can tempt a person to lie when that person gets caught with his hand in the cookie jar. If the person is keeping his hand out of the cookie jar, but would really like a cookie, then Satan will play on those desires as he did with Adam and Eve by suggesting that "It is good..." to take a cookie. Most people agree that Satan can influence (or tempt) a person to sin, but Satan cannot make a person sin.

[luv1another]

I have been trying to figure out how much of a direct role satan has in influencing my life...and in any other Christians life...so please share your thoughts!!!

I guess the big issue I am trying to figure out is how much of a direct role vs. an indirect role he has in my life. Since I became a Christian 5 years ago, I know I have the Holy Spirit in my life...therefore, I cannot be directly influenced by satan or any of his demons.

I guess it depends on what you mean by directly influenced. there is a spiritual battle going on around us... while satan and his demons can not read your mind, they hate you because you love God and they will try and make you fall as much as possible. If you are vulnerable in a certain area they know that they hang around you watching and waiting for an opportunity to tempt and seduce you. You have fre will remember you can listen to the Holy Spirits promptings or you can listen to the thoughts and whispers of satans demons.

Yet I hear many Christians say that they are always praying that satan will not influence them, or that satan is trying to bring them down, or satan is causing them to sin...how can this be if they have the Holy Spirit indwelling them? freewill you have an option always God does not force you to do what is right. Satan can not make you do something he can try but thats it he did not force eve to eat of the fruit he tempted her and twisted Gods words, we need to be alert at all times.

Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Eph 6:18 Do all this in prayer, asking for God's help. Pray on every occasion, as the Spirit leads. For this reason keep alert and never give up; pray always for all God's people

1Pe 5:8 Be alert, be on watch! Your enemy, the Devil, roams around like a roaring lion, looking for someone to devour.
1Pe 5:9 Be firm in your faith and resist him, because you know that other believers in all the world are going through the same kind of sufferings.

1Th 2:18 We wanted to return to you. I myself tried to go back more than once, but Satan would not let us.

1Th 3:5 That is why I had to send Timothy. I could not bear it any longer, so I sent him to find out about your faith. Surely it could not be that the Devil had tempted you and all our work had been for nothing!

Jam 4:7 So then, submit yourselves to God. Resist the Devil, and he will run away from you.

just some verses there


So if satan and his demons do not have a direct role in my life (influencing my thoughts and actions) because I have the Holy Spirit, then how much of an indirect role do they have? Would he use just non-christians & the media or would he have more of an influence...like bringing specific non-christians into my life to try and bring me down...

I know satan has a limited number of demons, so I'm guessing he would be strategic in using his demons and not waste his time trying to influence me because I am nothing in this world...I have no money or power...wouldn't he try to use his demons to indirectly influence christians with lots of power and money to make a larger negative impact...and/or non-christians to make trouble with christians (i.e.- extreme muslims)?

If satan did use one of his demons to try and indirectly influence me, doesn't God have angels that would "watch my back?"

When it comes down to it, I think these Christians like to blame their sins on satan's influence and not take responsibility for allowing their sin nature to be resurrected...what do all of you peoples think?

firstly I think satan has a whole lot of demons... the Christians satan is worried about bringing down are the ones who love God and do what God wants... they don't have to have wealth they just have to love God and want to do what God wants. How many people will jo blogs down the road bring to Christ if when people come over he shows a porn flick or cusses every second word and beats his wife ( I know thats extreme), but will satan bother with that person? no they are destroying their own life and are not a witness for God.

God allows us to be tempted and tested to make us stronger in our faith, if after becoming a Christian there was no temptation or struggles and everything went wonderful would we continue to learn about God? would we grow in our Christian walk? would we become more Christlike? God allows temptation to draw us closer to him and to help us become more Christlike and ready for heaven.

satan will also use other people to tempt you,

2Co 6:14 Do not try to work together as equals with unbelievers, for it cannot be done. How can right and wrong be partners? How can light and darkness live together?
2Co 6:15 How can Christ and the Devil agree? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?
2Co 6:16 How can God's temple come to terms with pagan idols? For we are the temple of the living God! As God himself has said, "I will make my home with my people and live among them; I will be their God, and they shall be my people."

[smaller]

Greetings Guss

I have been trying to figure out how much of a direct role satan has in influencing my life...and in any other Christians life...so please share your thoughts!!!

I guess the big issue I am trying to figure out is how much of a direct role vs. an indirect role he has in my life. Since I became a Christian 5 years ago, I know I have the Holy Spirit in my life...therefore, I cannot be directly influenced by satan or any of his demons.

Paul saw in part. Paul saw in the darkness. Paul said we are planted in corruption, weakness, and humility. All of these things are indicative of the "working of satan." You are not "exempt" just because you are a "believer."

You are only better equipped by The Word to do battle when you can "see" the "opposer/opponent. The opponent is only revealed by The Light of The Word. You will find this exposing nowhere else but in The Word.

Yet I hear many Christians say that they are always praying that satan will not influence them, or that satan is trying to bring them down, or satan is causing them to sin...how can this be if they have the Holy Spirit indwelling them?

Paul made an open confession that he had "sin indwelling" and "evil present" within himself. John says we cannot say we "have" no sin. Paul had a messenger of satan in his flesh, sent by God to torment him and keep him from exalting himself because of exceeding revelation. The notion that satan has to make your head turn and vomit spew is a Hollywood fairytale.

Satan's presence can be as simple of a thing as altering your understanding of The Word. Why do you think there are so many different denominations? This is a DIRECT RESULT of satan's workings in believers.

So if satan and his demons do not have a direct role in my life (influencing my thoughts and actions) because I have the Holy Spirit, then how much of an indirect role do they have?

Don't deceive yourself (underlined.) All have sin and sin is of the devil.

Would he use just non-christians & the media or would he have more of an influence...like bringing specific non-christians into my life to try and bring me down...

The presence of sin indwelling and evil present is something that is in our flesh. Everytime you have a lustful thought it is of the devil.

I know satan has a limited number of demons,

Why would you say that? The devil has "children" so obviously "he" multiplies until "sin becomes utterly sinful" in preparation for Ultimate Judgment.


so I'm guessing he would be strategic in using his demons and not waste his time trying to influence me because I am nothing in this world...

God bound all with disobedience. He did so with a Purpose. Romans 11:32

Do not think yourself exempt from this experience.

I have no money or power...wouldn't he try to use his demons to indirectly influence christians with lots of power and money to make a larger negative impact...and/or non-christians to make trouble with christians (i.e.- extreme muslims)?

Follow along in a response of understanding and you may learn how Wise God is in using evil. Fall under the hand of the accuser and you will receive nothing.

If satan did use one of his demons to try and indirectly influence me, doesn't God have angels that would "watch my back?"

God has never counted sins against mankind. Love keeps "no record" of wrongs.

When it comes down to it, I think these Christians like to blame their sins on satan's influence and not take responsibility for allowing their sin nature to be resurrected...what do all of you peoples think?

It would appear that you want to "blame men" for sins and hold them against "men." Such a position is in direct conflict with the Word of God and in itself is "evidence" of the opposers influence upon you personally.

enjoy!

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[misterguss]

It is really just my opinion of course, and it is based on certain verses, but I don't hold my view as true because I'm sinful and fallible. I just want to make sure we're not arguing over who's right, because as far as I'm concerned I'm probably already wrong.
I don't like agruing...but I do like discussing things so that the truth in something can come to light. :teeth:

"When the unclean spirit has gone out of a person, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, and finding none it says, 'I will return to my house from which I came.' And when it comes, it finds the house swept and put in order. Then it goes and brings seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they enter and dwell there. And the last state of that person is worse than the first."
(Luke 11:24-26)

Actually now that I see it, I think I may be taking it out of context. If you could show me how, I'd appreciate it.

Anyway, I think this verse shows a saved guy getting freed, then demons coming back for the attack. I could be wrong, of course. But I believe this simply because I don't have evidence against it that I know of from the Bible or any Church tradition. But show me if I'm wrong about that.
The purpose of these verses is to show that any man lacking the Holy Spirit, no matter how powerful he is, can have evil spirits cast out, but they can return at any time...but that cannot happen if he has the Holy Spirit.

thanks for sharing your story!

-Jon

[misterguss]

If I hated someone, and I couldn't hurt them, the next best thing would be to hurt someone they love.
Good insight!...I'm sure satan is trying to hurt the people I love who are not Christians because he can have direct control over them...but what about the people who I love that are Christians...those who have the Holy Spirit and angels to protect them from satan and his demons?
Do you think satan can directly influence them (i.e.- controlling their thoughts to make them want to sin) or just indirectly influence them (i.e.- use outside forces such as other non-christians or the media to try and hurt them)?

[misterguss]

13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted by evil, and he himself tempts no one.
14 But each one is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desires.
15 Then when desire conceives, it gives birth to sin, and when sin is full grown, it gives birth to death.

If we are not tempted by God, then we are tempted by evil (or Satan).
I believe that every Christian is tempted by evil because of their sin nature. "vs. 14- But each one is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desires." I think this verse is directed at our own sinfulness that tempts us, not satan...for if the "evil" in vs. 13 was implying satan, then the following verse would say "he is lured and enticed by satan" or something like that.

Satan can tempt a person to lie
Doesn't this imply that satan can enter our thought life? Do you think he can enter our minds and bring about temptation even though we have the Holy Spirit?

If the person is keeping his hand out of the cookie jar, but would really like a cookie, then Satan will play on those desires as he did with Adam and Eve by suggesting that "It is good..." to take a cookie.
Both God and satan communicated with man differently back in the beginning of mankind. Satan took the form of a visible animal and spoke with a voice to lure eve to eat the fruit...satan does not work that way today...not that I know of anyway :) In regards to your statement above, I don't think it is satan that will play on those desires (because I don't believe he can enter a Christian's mind), but it is the persons sin nature/flesh that plays on those desires.

I don't want to come across sounding like I know everything...cause if I did, I wouldn't have started this post! I learn the best when I play devil's advocate...so please don't take anything personal :teeth:

[misterguss]

just some verses there
I appreciate your reply and verses!


firstly I think satan has a whole lot of demons... the Christians satan is worried about bringing down are the ones who love God and do what God wants... they don't have to have wealth they just have to love God and want to do what God wants. How many people will jo blogs down the road bring to Christ if when people come over he shows a porn flick or cusses every second word and beats his wife ( I know thats extreme), but will satan bother with that person? no they are destroying their own life and are not a witness for God.
I agree satan has a lot of demons...I also agree that God has a lot of angels...in fact He created an angel powerful enough to bound Satan (Rev. 20)...so I think the angels can handle themselves :teeth:

I agree that satan doesn't just want to attack Christians with wealth....I guess I meant influence rather than wealth :blush: Would it be safe to say that satan focus' his attacks on the average Christian who is influencing the world to put their faith in God?...or do you think satan would spend more time trying to attack a pastor of 2,000 people? I think this question would be stupid if satan had an unlimited number of demons, but since he has to use his demons wisely, do you think he does not spend as much time on the average influencial Christian? If this is true, then we should be spending much more time praying for our Christian leaders in influencial positions!

God allows us to be tempted and tested to make us stronger in our faith, if after becoming a Christian there was no temptation or struggles and everything went wonderful would we continue to learn about God? would we grow in our Christian walk? would we become more Christlike? God allows temptation to draw us closer to him and to help us become more Christlike and ready for heaven.
I agree with your statement...but if I had to put a number on it, I believe that 90% of the temptation comes from our evil desires because of our flesh and about 10% comes from demonic activity....What do you think?

Thanks for your thoughts!

[misterguss]

Paul made an open confession that he had "sin indwelling" and "evil present" within himself. John says we cannot say we "have" no sin. Paul had a messenger of satan in his flesh, sent by God to torment him and keep him from exalting himself because of exceeding revelation. The notion that satan has to make your head turn and vomit spew is a Hollywood fairytale.

Satan's presence can be as simple of a thing as altering your understanding of The Word. Why do you think there are so many different denominations? This is a DIRECT RESULT of satan's workings in believers.


Don't deceive yourself (underlined.) All have sin and sin is of the devil.


The presence of sin indwelling and evil present is something that is in our flesh. Everytime you have a lustful thought it is of the devil.
It sounds to me you believe that satan created sin nature in every human...that it is satan's fault that we sin. Am I correct in how I interpreted these statements?
If this is what you meant, I do not agree with you. I believe that sin came about when God's created beings chose to sin because of the freewill He gave them. God gave satan a freewill and he chose to sin...satan did not create sin.



Why would you say that? The devil has "children" so obviously "he" multiplies until "sin becomes utterly sinful" in preparation for Ultimate Judgment.I believe you have misinterpreted Scripture. Satan does not have literal children who he has literally fathered like we humans do here on earth...satan does not multiply. If I am wrong, please show me a passage of Scripture stating that satan multiplies.


Such a position is in direct conflict with the Word of God and in itself is "evidence" of the opposers influence upon you personally.
You have a very interesting way of look at Scripture....though it is interesting, I do not agree with much you have said in this post.

[smaller]

It sounds to me you believe that satan created sin nature in every human...that it is satan's fault that we sin. Am I correct in how I interpreted these statements?

Did I say satan created anything?

God creates evil and uses evil. (Isaiah 45:7)

God created satan and his messengers as He created all things.

God bound us all to disobedience. (Romans 11:32)

If this is what you meant, I do not agree with you.

I looked at my post again and saw nothing of this sort. I have no idea why you would say what you did.

I believe that sin came about when God's created beings chose to sin because of the freewill He gave them.

Freewill then causes sin. Is this what you are saying? Could there be a MANufacturer problem? If the will was truly free you would think that a few sinless people could have resulted from freewill, you know, just to "prove" it was a "fair measure" of why you made the "right" decisions with yours and others do not.

God gave satan a freewill and he chose to sin...satan did not create sin.

Jesus said satan was a liar and a murderer from the beginning and there was no truth in him.

I believe you have misinterpreted Scripture.

You made several incorrect statements about your condition that I queried or observed from your post. Why put up these strawmen?

Satan does not have literal children who he has literally fathered like we humans do here on earth...

I agree, but the devil does have children, so I presume they multiply or the devil would not have children. They would have just been there from the beginning.

satan does not multiply. If I am wrong, please show me a passage of Scripture stating that satan multiplies.

The Law was given so that sin would and transgression would "increase." Sin is of the devil. The multiplication of sins are for sin to become utterly sinful prior to judgment.

You have a very interesting way of look at Scripture....though it is interesting, I do not agree with much you have said in this post.

I never expect people to actually engage in Truth.

The fact remains that "all" have sin (save One of course) regardless of the "acts of sin" and sin is of the devil.

Paul admitted that he had a messenger of satan that buffeted his flesh. He also said that in his flesh he served the Law of Sin and that he had "sin indwelling him" that was "no longer" him and that he had evil present with him.

Your post seemed to imply that you were free of these conditions.

enjoy!

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[luv1another]

I appreciate your reply and verses!

thats good because I don't often reply in debate areas :teeth: and I think this is the first post in theology 201 that I have replied to :wink:


I agree satan has a lot of demons...I also agree that God has a lot of angels...in fact He created an angel powerful enough to bound Satan (Rev. 20)...so I think the angels can handle themselves :teeth:

I agree angels can handle themselves because God has more power than any living creature and he gives the angels power for what they need to do.

I agree that satan doesn't just want to attack Christians with wealth....I guess I meant influence rather than wealth :blush: Would it be safe to say that satan focus' his attacks on the average Christian who is influencing the world to put their faith in God?...or do you think satan would spend more time trying to attack a pastor of 2,000 people? I think this question would be stupid if satan had an unlimited number of demons, but since he has to use his demons wisely, do you think he does not spend as much time on the average influencial Christian? If this is true, then we should be spending much more time praying for our Christian leaders in influencial positions!

I think all Christians that are being Christians come under satans attacks, Yes pastors etc come under more attack. I actually knew someone who asked someone in a park if they were a Christian because it looked like they were praying... their answer was no I am a witch and I am actually praying against pastors in other cities. Pastors come under more attack because they are leaders and as leaders they also have more responsibility and can cause more people to fall if they fall. Yes we should be praying for those in authority, not only pastors but our goverment too... satan will put thoughts in their minds but God can influence their decisions if we would stop whineing about how bad they are doing and pray instead.
all Christians who try and be more like Jesus are influencing other whether they think so or not thus satan will try and stop them... satan does not even one person to become a Christian.


I agree with your statement...but if I had to put a number on it, I believe that 90% of the temptation comes from our evil desires because of our flesh and about 10% comes from demonic activity....What do you think?

Thanks for your thoughts!

I think it depends, of course not everything that happens to us is from the devil but I think it's probably higher than what you have said here but then also that will probably depend on how much your sinning yourself :shrug:

something that is slightly off topic but relates...
how do you think mediums and fortune tellers (good ones that seem very accurate) get their information? I mean information on things in your past that no one else would know or very few would know?
satans demons hang around people influencing them, they know the things that have happened in the past because they were there and they just tell the medium or fortune teller.

so if thats true don't you think that there are more demons than we think and that satan has demons watching you and trying to influence your decisions and thoughts?

I am one who believes that we have angels that watch over us, assigned to us that do not allow demons to attack us more than what God allows just as in Job case...

Job 1:6 When the day came for the heavenly beings to appear before the LORD, Satan was there among them.
Job 1:7 The LORD asked him, "What have you been doing?" Satan answered, "I have been walking here and there, roaming around the earth."
Job 1:8 "Did you notice my servant Job?" the LORD asked. "There is no one on earth as faithful and good as he is. He worships me and is careful not to do anything evil."
Job 1:9 Satan replied, "Would Job worship you if he got nothing out of it?
Job 1:10 You have always protected him and his family and everything he owns. You bless everything he does, and you have given him enough cattle to fill the whole country.
Job 1:11 But now suppose you take away everything he has---he will curse you to your face!"
Job 1:12 "All right," the LORD said to Satan, "everything he has is in your power, but you must not hurt Job himself." So Satan left.

[misterguss]

God creates evil and uses evil. (Isaiah 45:7)

God created satan and his messengers as He created all things.

God bound us all to disobedience. (Romans 11:32)
You are taking a few verses out of context and forming a theology around them. Isaiah 45:7 does not say God creates and uses evil...the closest word to evil in that verse is darkness...and that is not implying evil. Romans 11:32 states that Scripture shows us that we all are all sinners, not that God bound us all do disobedience...look at the cross-reference of Gal. 3:22




Freewill then causes sin. Is this what you are saying? Could there be a MANufacturer problem? If the will was truly free you would think that a few sinless people could have resulted from freewill, you know, just to "prove" it was a "fair measure" of why you made the "right" decisions with yours and others do not.
Adam and Eve had freewill before they sinned. Since that time, not one person has had a free will until they became a Christian. They were all dead in their sin...and could not have had free will to choose what was right vs. wrong. With sin nature, not one person could have resulted sinless because they were dead in sin...that is all they could do.



I agree, but the devil does have children, so I presume they multiply or the devil would not have children. They would have just been there from the beginning.
Again, you are taking verses out of context...tell me where in the Bible that the devil has had sexual intercourse, and his offspring has had sexual intercourse...satan is not a human, but a spiritual being just as all his demons are...they do not have sex and reproduce...not one passage in Scripture says that.


Paul admitted that he had a messenger of satan that buffeted his flesh.
What do you think he meant by "messenger of satan?" This means that satan sent something/someone to attack him in some way. This does not mean that satan's messenger entered his mind and/or controlled him.

He also said that in his flesh he served the Law of Sin and that he had "sin indwelling him" that was "no longer" him and that he had evil present with him.
He served the law of sin and had sin indwelling him because of his flesh!...he was not possessed by a demon or by satan, but chose to give into his sin nature. We all have sin in us because we have a sin nature...all who are Christians will sin until the day they die! Thank God for sending Jesus!

It's easy to take things out of context...I know I have in the past and I hope I am not right now:teeth: I think you are (1) taking many verses out of context and (2) forming a theology around 1 or 2 verses...so you are having a problem making the distinction between satan/demons vs. the flesh...there is a huge difference.

[smaller]

You are taking a few verses out of context and forming a theology around them. Isaiah 45:7 does not say God creates and uses evil...the closest word to evil in that verse is darkness...and that is not implying evil.

Is the KJV a problem with you?

Isaiah 45:
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

There are hundreds of confirming texts for this position. Would you like a few more? God also caused adultery and killed children, including the King of Israel, David's son.

Romans 11:32 states that Scripture shows us that we all are all sinners, not that God bound us all do disobedience

(NIV and others)
Romans 11:
32 For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

...look at the cross-reference of Gal. 3:22

All are "under" sin? What about it? I agree and see no conflict with Romans 11:32.

Adam and Eve had freewill before they sinned.

What makes you think Adam was an exception to the above "all?" Obviously Adam was "corruptible." Obviously Adam was "deceivable." Obviously Adam did not have "dominion" over the serpent, etc etc etc.


Since that time, not one person has had a free will until they became a Christian.

Only God has "free" will. Your will, by any simplistic comparison is "lesser than" God's Will or "less" free than God's Will. A "less than free" will is far from a "free" will. You still cannot say you "have" no sin, so "how free" are you???

They were all dead in their sin...and could not have had free will to choose what was right vs. wrong. With sin nature, not one person could have resulted sinless because they were dead in sin...that is all they could do.

Perhaps you disagree with the statement at the bottom of my post? This would apply to "any" who "love."

Again, you are taking verses out of context...tell me where in the Bible that the devil has had sexual intercourse, and his offspring has had sexual intercourse...satan is not a human, but a spiritual being just as all his demons are...they do not have sex and reproduce...not one passage in Scripture says that.

The devil has children. I did not say it was by sexual intercourse. I only know the devil has children. How he gets them I really don't care to know, but I also know that The Law causes sin to increase and was given for that reason, so perhaps it has something to do with The Law.

What do you think he meant by "messenger of satan?" This means that satan sent something/someone to attack him in some way. This does not mean that satan's messenger entered his mind and/or controlled him.

Just pointing out that Paul had a devil in his flesh. Never said it controlled him other than the "buffeting" part. These things don't have to be head spinning, vomit spewing. They can simply be the influence of a lustful thought passing across your mind.

He served the law of sin and had sin indwelling him because of his flesh!...

There is no scripture that says the flesh is sin.

he was not possessed by a demon or by satan,

Paul had sin indwelling him that was "no longer I." He also admitted that he had "evil present" with him. Who or what was it then??? The flesh is merely a compilation of organic matter.

but chose to give into his sin nature.

He never said he "gave in."

He said that every time he picked up the law that sin in himself was revealed that was "no longer I." Do you consider yourself an "exception" to this condition???


We all have sin in us because we have a sin nature...all who are Christians will sin until the day they die!

Perhaps you need to tell me if you are the "sinner" or "you" have the "sin nature" how you know God??? Start with 1 John 3:6

Thank God for sending Jesus!

For what? In your view he lets you off the hook while everyone else gets to be eternally burned in fire. This is the absolute worst thing that could have ever happened to the human race using your understanding.

It's easy to take things out of context...I know I have in the past and I hope I am not right now:teeth: I think you are (1) taking many verses out of context and (2) forming a theology around 1 or 2 verses...so you are having a problem making the distinction between satan/demons vs. the flesh...there is a huge difference.

And I think you may be in a tad bit of denial. Wonder what's doing that?

enjoy!

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[misterguss]

You have a unique way of twisting Scripture to fit your views...it is obvious in how you misinterpret verse after verse (that whole "satan having children that reproduce" view amazes me).

Which Christian group (denomination) are you affiliated with?

[rhutchin]

rhutchin

James 1
13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted by evil, and he himself tempts no one.
14 But each one is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desires.
15 Then when desire conceives, it gives birth to sin, and when sin is full grown, it gives birth to death.

If we are not tempted by God, then we are tempted by evil (or Satan).

Misterguss
I believe that every Christian is tempted by evil because of their sin nature. "vs. 14- But each one is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desires." I think this verse is directed at our own sinfulness that tempts us, not satan...for if the "evil" in vs. 13 was implying satan, then the following verse would say "he is lured and enticed by satan" or something like that.

I see James focusing on an individual’s nature. It is not that Satan lures and entices us to do something that we have no desire to do, but our own desires open us up to temptation. We are lured and enticed by those things that we desire. Peter describes Satan as a roaring lion seeking whom he will devour. Paul says that those who are headed for destruction have been blinded by the god of this world (Satan). That leads us to the conclusion that Satan is actively involved in our lives. When James says that we are tempted by evil, we have ample reason to conclude that he has Satan in mind (or at least involved). Can we fail to associate Satan with evil any less than we associate good with God?


rhutchin
Satan can tempt a person to lie

Misterguss
Doesn't this imply that satan can enter our thought life? Do you think he can enter our minds and bring about temptation even though we have the Holy Spirit?

I think it would be sufficient for Satan to know that we have a sin nature. He doesn’t have to know what we think, only how we tend to think. He would approach us even as he approached Adam and Eve, and said “It is good…” If Satan could read our thoughts, he would not have to be very smart. That he cannot read our thoughts makes him a good deal smarter that we like to think, certainly a lot smarter than any of us.


rhutchin
If the person is keeping his hand out of the cookie jar, but would really like a cookie, then Satan will play on those desires as he did with Adam and Eve by suggesting that "It is good..." to take a cookie.

Misterguss
Both God and satan communicated with man differently back in the beginning of mankind. Satan took the form of a visible animal and spoke with a voice to lure eve to eat the fruit...satan does not work that way today...not that I know of anyway :) In regards to your statement above, I don't think it is satan that will play on those desires (because I don't believe he can enter a Christian's mind), but it is the persons sin nature/flesh that plays on those desires.


Certainly, we cannot discount our sin nature. However, John 6 refers to us being taught by God. I suspect that those who are not taught by God are being taught by Satan. Should not we think that Satan seeks to influence us as he did Adam and Eve even if he does not use a snake but uses a prostitute, pornography, a close friend, etc.

If we only had our sin nature to contend with, I do not see why some would have such a hatred for God since God does not really keep them from pursuing their desires. There seems to be more here than just a sin nature.

[smaller]

You have a unique way of twisting Scripture to fit your views...it is obvious in how you misinterpret verse after verse (that whole "satan having children that reproduce" view amazes me).

When the Pharisees disputed with Jesus He gave scriptural reasonings, not false and hollow accusations.

Which Christian group (denomination) are you affiliated with?

I bow to no man's organization. Wherever two or more are gathered in "His Name," He is there in the midst. That is the "church" "local" and as "churchy" as I care to be in this wicked and evil generation.

[misterguss]

I see James focusing on an individual’s nature. It is not that Satan lures and entices us to do something that we have no desire to do, but our own desires open us up to temptation. We are lured and enticed by those things that we desire. Peter describes Satan as a roaring lion seeking whom he will devour. Paul says that those who are headed for destruction have been blinded by the god of this world (Satan). That leads us to the conclusion that Satan is actively involved in our lives. When James says that we are tempted by evil, we have ample reason to conclude that he has Satan in mind (or at least involved). Can we fail to associate Satan with evil any less than we associate good with God?
I agree that satan is the ruler of this world and that he is trying to become actively involved in every Christians life by the perversions he has created i.e. a prostitute, pornography, a close friend, etc. But I do not think that we have to succumb to satans attacks...we have a choice because we are now alive in Christ and can choose to follow Him or follow our sin nature, which craves the perversions satan has created in this world. I don't think "satan is actively involved in our lives" all the time, rather, only when we resurrect our sin nature...then he will become actively involved.


I think it would be sufficient for Satan to know that we have a sin nature. He doesn’t have to know what we think, only how we tend to think. He would approach us even as he approached Adam and Eve, and said “It is good…” If Satan could read our thoughts, he would not have to be very smart. That he cannot read our thoughts makes him a good deal smarter that we like to think, certainly a lot smarter than any of us.
Good point...I agree :teeth:


Certainly, we cannot discount our sin nature. However, John 6 refers to us being taught by God. I suspect that those who are not taught by God are being taught by Satan. Should not we think that Satan seeks to influence us as he did Adam and Eve even if he does not use a snake but uses a prostitute, pornography, a close friend, etc.
I believe that all true Christians are being taught by God. I believe that all non-Christians are being taught by Satan. Every backsliding Christian is denying the Holy Spirits conviction...So I don't know how much they are being taught by satan vs. his/her sin nature...

If we only had our sin nature to contend with, I do not see why some would have such a hatred for God since God does not really keep them from pursuing their desires. There seems to be more here than just a sin nature.
No Christian has a hatred for God...but every Christian has a sin nature to deal with 24 hrs/day...and satans attacks that God allows. The only people who hate God are non-Christians who are being controlled by sin nature and possibly by direct influence of satan because they do not have the Holy Spirt. It is true that non-Christians have more to deal with than just a sin nature...they are being controlled by satan as well!

Thanks for sharin' your thoughts! I appreciate them.

[misterguss]

When the Pharisees disputed with Jesus He gave scriptural reasonings, not false and hollow accusations.
That is very true! Also, Jesus never took Scripture out of context like you have (I'm still waiting for you to prove your "satan having children that reproduce" view).

[cuja1]

My personal belief is that the temptations of the flesh have to do with our physical desires such as food, sex, and comfort. I think the devils temptations come in the form of lies. We usually think that they are our own thoughts but I don't think that is always the case. For instance, there's pride. Who has done something excellent before, such as hit a home run or made a great catch in baseball. For me, I'm always tempted to think that I have some great skill. That I'm somehow better than someone else. Even when I try to remember that every thing I do is through God's power, I struggle to keep things in perspective. To me that is from the devil.

But I would disagree with anyone who says the devil made them do it. Unless maybe they were possessed, but even then, I would think that the person somehow gave themselves over to be possessed. I don't know, I could be wrong, but that is what I believe.

[elysian]

I do believe Satan has some people completely under his control (but because that person gradually ALLOWED it.) For example Barbra Streisand- wait a minute- if Satan were a woman he would BE Barbra Streisand!!!!

[smaller]

That is very true! Also, Jesus never took Scripture out of context like you have (I'm still waiting for you to prove your "satan having children that reproduce" view).

If Jesus said satan had children, why would I have to "prove" satan has "children?" The fact that he has is fact enough.

You want a blow by blow on how satan reproduces?

Go watch the weeds in your own earth.

[cuja1]

If Jesus said satan had children, why would I have to "prove" satan has "children?" The fact that he has is fact enough.

You want a blow by blow on how satan reproduces?

Go watch the weeds in your own earth.
I remember the Bible said that the Pharisees were the devil's children but I can't recall the Bible saying that Satan sexually reproduces. The Bible says we are God's children but that doesn't mean... well you know.

[cuja1]

I do believe Satan has some people completely under his control (but because that person gradually ALLOWED it.) For example Barbra Streisand- wait a minute- if Satan were a woman he would BE Barbra Streisand!!!!
I knew there was something I didn't like about her. I thought it was just her political views. :lol:

[smaller]

I remember the Bible said that the Pharisees were the devil's children but I can't recall the Bible saying that Satan sexually reproduces. The Bible says we are God's children but that doesn't mean... well you know.

I never said that satan sexually reproduces.

That was misterguss's accuser whispering in his head.

I said that The Word said that the devil has children, and that sin and transgression multiply and grow like weeds, til they become utterly sinful in preparation for Judgment.

[misterguss]

I never said that satan sexually reproduces.
You said that satan's children reproduce.

That was misterguss's accuser whispering in his head.
And I love you too smaller!

1 John 4:20- "If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. "


I said that The Word said that the devil has children, and that sin and transgression multiply and grow like weeds, til they become utterly sinful in preparation for Judgment.
Have you ever admitted a mistake buddy? You said that satan's children reproduce...and you know this statement has nothing to do with sin and transgression multiplying and growing like weeds. Just admit that you took this verse out of context and we can drop it! :teeth:

[smaller]

You said that satan's children reproduce.

Having children is indicative of reproduction. What can I say?

It was you who attached the term sexual to this. That was from your head.


And I love you too smaller!

1 John 4:20- "If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. "

Have you ever admitted a mistake buddy? You said that satan's children reproduce...and you know this statement has nothing to do with sin and transgression multiplying and growing like weeds. Just admit that you took this verse out of context and we can drop it! :teeth:

The devil has children. Are you going to dispute that children come from reproduction????

What is the point or the problem here anyway???

Are you trying to make some weird case that children (of any sort) do not come from reproduction??? Move on.

If this is all you have gleaned from our exchange you come away empty handed. You have left some huge pieces of meat trampled behind you.

Try to pick up something else from what we have spoken of in this thread and let's see if we can work harder to find some gain.

I am here for "profit" not hollow accusations.

enjoy!

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[misterguss]

I did not mean for this thread to become so narrowly focused in these last few posts with smaller and myself...I apologize...and will do better after this post :teeth: I would appreciate any other thoughts from all who have anything to add!



Having children is indicative of reproduction. What can I say?

It was you who attached the term sexual to this. That was from your head.



The devil has children. Are you going to dispute that children come from reproduction????

What is the point or the problem here anyway???

Are you trying to make some weird case that children (of any sort) do not come from reproduction??? Move on.
The point that I was making is that you continually take Scripture verses out of context. The huge pieces of meat you put in front of me had nothing to do with the context of the Bible, rather, your interpretation of those verses. It is pointless to debate anything with you any longer until you use Scripture in context. Until you do that, I have no reason to respond to any more of your posts. I say this out of love...I want nothing more than for people to use Scripture properly! And I hope I do the same!!!

[smaller]

I did not mean for this thread to become so narrowly focused in these last few posts with smaller and myself...I apologize...and will do better after this post :teeth: I would appreciate any other thoughts from all who have anything to add!

The point that I was making is that you continually take Scripture verses out of context. The huge pieces of meat you put in front of me had nothing to do with the context of the Bible, rather, your interpretation of those verses. It is pointless to debate anything with you any longer until you use Scripture in context. Until you do that, I have no reason to respond to any more of your posts. I say this out of love...I want nothing more than for people to use Scripture properly! And I hope I do the same!!!

Being specific is the mother of dialog.

Otherwise it is just pointless accusation for which you are an excellent example.

[Alberta girl]

Good insight!...I'm sure satan is trying to hurt the people I love who are not Christians because he can have direct control over them...but what about the people who I love that are Christians...those who have the Holy Spirit and angels to protect them from satan and his demons?
Do you think satan can directly influence them (i.e.- controlling their thoughts to make them want to sin) or just indirectly influence them (i.e.- use outside forces such as other non-christians or the media to try and hurt them)?
What I actualy meant is that satan will try to hurt those whom God loves. I don't think satan can compel a Christian; but he can certainly whisper in their ear. And he knows their weaknesses,(he watches people and their behaviours as closely as God does). I was told that if I carry around secret sin such as resentments, it would be the devils favorite hunting grounds. But if I confess my sins and ask God to change my heart, then the devil will have no influence in that part of my life (or mind). Also I think the presence of the Holy Spirit is like a tank of gas. If I keep my tank full, by worship reading scripture, prayer and meditation, and obedience to the things that I know are His will for me, that's fine but if I igrore those things, I will let my tank go empty, dry and I will have an empty, dry spiritual life that will become very ripe for the deception of the devil,(the father of lies) and I will start thinking things like..'maybe it wasn't really real' or 'just one night won't hurt me' or 'it's not such a bad sin anyway' or 'after all it's my life isn't it?' It is in in this way that I think the devil influences Christians, and steals dstroys and kills. Thank you for letting me share.