Christian Denominations and Biblical Versions.

[Bob Jenkins]

Christian Denominations and Biblical Versions.

There exists a multitude of denominations with Christianity. I imagine each has been established
because there was disagreement about the tenets and segments broke off from a parent
denomination making a new community of like minded believers. We know that, in the early
"body of Christ" there arose various "limbs". Roman ascendency was assured through good
fortune and politics which was deceitful and fraudulent at times But Rome did achieve both
secular and spiritual power thus becoming the parent of all of our current denominations. What I
would like to discuss are the ideas as to which denomination today holds the most faithful view
of Christianity as intended by God. Can one of the fundamentalist denominations have this
position? Can another, which incorporates more liberal interpretation of scripture, bring into
play modern society morality and prove more worthy of that position?

Likewise, there exists today a plethora of different versions of the bible. These differ not just in
a chosen translation but in the source of the "original" being translated and in the selection of
what text is to be included.

I find that it is not enough to ask the atheist just to believe but the best place to acquire the
correct beliefs should be pointed out as well.

So I ask
- What is the true denomination an Atheist should join.
- What is the true version of the bible an Atheist should read.
- Are there other considerations?

[Pilgrim]

I don;t think it's an eithor or proposition. I don't think denominationalism really works like that along such cut and dry lines.

[Light_Seeker]

- What is the true denomination an Atheist should join.

I don't think that there is a "true denomination." I've gone to non-denominational churches for my whole life and for the most part, like them a lot better than others which aren't non-denom. One reason for me, personally, is that I don't usually like the different rituals that acompany different denominations. But then, non-denom churches, I have found, tend to be a lot less theological and have a lot of emphasis and the spiritual "feelings" side of Christianity. In answer to the question, (assuming that the Atheist is looking for answers, or has become a Christian) people should attend churches that share their same views, that preach the Bible and believe in its authority in a Christian's life, and believe that Jesus was God, the Messiah, who died and rose again.

- What is the true version of the bible an Atheist should read.

Are you talking about the original Greek/Hebrew deal? (Did I get the languages right? :shrug:) Otherwise, again, there is no "true version." We don't have a true, direct translation of the Bible. If we did, we wouldn't have so many versions of it. But my recommendation? I like the NIV or the NKJV.

[Bob Jenkins]

[quote from Light_Seeker}
I don't think that there is a "true denomination.

We don't have a true, direct translation of the Bible

[comment]
Thank you for your response

[Bob Jenkins]

From GrayPilgrim in another thread
I can answer what is the best Bible to read--Biblia Hebraica Stutgartensia (the Hebrew Text of the Bible as passed down in the Masoretic Text with text critical Notes) Novum Testamentum Graecae (Nestle-Aland 27, which is an eclectic text of the New Testament with text critical notes). Asking which translation is the best is questiopn begging. The very fact that it is a translation shows that it is going to miss out on cultural idioms and poetic devices that NO translation can bring over. That being said the best method for those who don't know Aramaic, Greek and Hebrew would be to get three or four modern translations (such as the ESV, NIV, NASB and NKJV) and compare them and you will see that there is very little difference, and most of the differences will be noted by footnotes. For those who like the KJV use it as well but realize that it used a different set of MSS than the modern, and becareful which version of the KJV you get (it has been revise numerous times prior to the 20th century to keep up with English idiom, I reccomend Solly's thread in the Library for any who are reading the KJV as he is doing a bang up job of detailing the difference in English today and Elizabethan English into which the KJV was transalted.

Which is the best church to join? One that has a regenreate pastor who preaches the Word of God.

GP

[Bob Jenkins]

From Nomad in another thread

yeah, i saw that. first of all, i will assume you mean 'atheist who wishes to investigate christianity', as i can't see any reason why an atheist would join any christian denomination. i think i know what you mean though.

- there is no one true denomination. you can learn the truth in many denominations.
- there is no one true version of the bible. many versions contain the truth.
- now, the next question may be 'if there is no 'golden rule', how do i know that any particular denomination actually is a christian denomination?' therefore the 'additional considerations'. and that is not a question with a simple answer :)

but, i don't think the plethora of denominations or bible versions is in any way reflective of its overall falsity, merely a reflection of the imperfect people, truth seekers though they may be, who inhabit it.

[djdavo]

start simple: get an NIV or other easy to read bible & go to a church that teaches out of the bible.

you can get a concordance and original hebrew and greek text bible later

:smile:

[Bob Jenkins]

from djdavo



(post#7 )

start simple: get an NIV or other easy to read bible & go to a church that teaches out of the bible.

you can get a concordance and original hebrew and greek text bible later

Comment
I thank you for your advice but the questions were more like a poll.and not a request for a procedure to learn the truth.

Guess I want someone else to do the work you suggest and I know it's been done - just a matter of getting to it.

Again, thanks for taking the time to post..

[AcousticJS]

04-28-2003 @ 01:28 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=80417#post80417)
Bob Jenkins:

So I ask
- What is the true denomination an Atheist should join.
- What is the true version of the bible an Atheist should read.
- Are there other considerations?

I don't believe there is a "true denomination". I don't believe that God necessarily owns or creates denominations, but I do believe He owns and creates specific local churches. I guess that's a bit messy and ambiguous, but that's life. If I were advising an atheist to try a church, I would suggest one that is Bible-believing, Spirit-filled and true to life.

There definitely isn't one translation of the Scriptures that is right to read. Having read some of the translators of the English Standard Version's views on translation philosophy (1), I would probably recommend a direct word-for-word translation rather than a "dynamic equivalence". So I would suggest ESV, NKJV, RSV, NASB, instead of NIV, NLT, CEV, The Message.

God bless
Jon

(1) Their basic point is that God didn't just inspire the ideas contained in the bible, He inspired the actual words too. Therefore the words need translating as accurately as possible too.

[Bob Jenkins]

AcousticJS

I thank you for your opinions.

[luv1another]

Hi Bob,
I would have to say I don't believe any one church has things 100% correct, nor does any believer. I believe that as a Christian I am to meet together with other Christians and discuss how we see paticular texts in an openminded way, and asking God to help us to come to the truth..... now that in itself will cause problems. I would recomend if you are looking for a church ask God to help you choose and then do the rounds visit each one for a few weeks and get a feel for it and what the pastors like etc.
also always take a bible along to make sure that they are not misquoting scripture.

as for a bible well when I first became a Christian I started out with a good news bible, it was easy to read and understand for someone who had never read a bible and hated school :teeth:
I now have about 4 or 5 diffrent bible versions and find the one I read most would be the inspirational bible a new century version.

in Christ
Luv1another

[Bob Jenkins]

luv1another

And my thanks to you too for taking the time to respond.

[sacre]

Hello sir.

If I may give my opinion, I would say that we must first define what "church" is. Most people will agree that the visible Church is the collection of professing believers and their families. The invisible Church is the group inside that of those indwelled with the Holy Spirit. Can their be any type of athiest in this group? Of course not. If, then, we are talking about a "church service", I would ask you what the purpose of this service is in the first place. This varies, naturally, with what denomination you ask, which is exactly why the various denominations run their services differently.

As a member of the PCA (Presbyterian Church in America), I consider the Lord's Day service to be a "Covenant Renewal ceremony", which contains elements fit only for a Christian. Because of that, even though an athiest might be permitted to take part, they would certainly be denied the sacraments, and they would simply feel out of place. I mean to say, a church service, to any PCA member, is not geared towards evangelising nonbelievers, and so I'm afraid that I cannot very clearly answer your question.

If you ask, on the other hand, which denomination I think a Christian should be a part of, I would easily point to the PCA, because it's purpose, modus operandi, and focus is the most Biblical (in my opinion).

As to the best translation, I would concur with GrayPilgrim. If, however, we are unable (as I am unable at this time) to read those languages sufficiently, then I would suggest the NASB, for literal accuracy. As a general rule, though, one should pick the translation that is the easiest for them to understand the true meaning of the origional writers.

Godspeed,
R. McIntyre

[Bob Jenkins]

sacre,

Thank you for your post.

The questions I asked assumed that an atheist would be trying to learn from the best source what it is to be a Christian

[JardinPrayer]

Yesterday @ 07:11 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=101304#post101304)
Bob Jenkins:

sacre,

Thank you for your post.

The questions I asked assumed that an atheist would be trying to learn from the best source what it is to be a Christian

The best source on what it is to be Christian - for an athiest or anyone else - is Jesus Christ. You'll find Him in every denomination and every translation of the bible. You'll find Him in the Greek and in the Latin and in the English. And, He says the same thing in all those places: "Seek and you shall find." Denomination or translation irregardless - just seek...everywhere.


This is my first post in this forum. How'd I do? :angel:

[Jacob]

Bob,

While I agree with mucht of the advice you've received, I'm going to give some practical helps, from my perspective.

FIRST, get 2-3 translations:
- New International Version (easier to read & understand)
USE THIS FOR READING.
- New American Standard (more literal, more word-for-word)
USE THIS FOR word & phrase comparisons.
- Amplified Bible, or Living Bible (another perspective).
USE THESE when the others are confusing you.

SECOND, try at least a few churches. They're like people - they have differing personalities (even within the same demonimation).

THIRD, ask questions:

Ask the Pastor for a statement of faith, and post it here for us to make comments & suggestions.

Ask the Pastor to describe the church. Most people here (I think), would recommend churches that describe themselves as Evangelical or Reformed in theology (but don't discount Charismatic churches which are Evangelical). If you're looking for something more "churchy", consider Missouri or Wisconsin Synod Lutheran churches. All of these hold to the same "fundamentals".

The denomination that I'm most familiar with is the Evangelical Free Church. It holds to the basics with vigor, but allows for much diversity in other issues. Others will give you good reasons for considering their denomination, which is good.

Jacob

[themuzicman]

If you want the true version, go to a seminary and learn Hebrew and Koine Greek, and read the texts in their original.

Michael

[Bob Jenkins]

From themuzicman

If you want the true version, go to a seminary and learn Hebrew and Koine Greek, and read the texts in their original.

Michael


I'm afraid that doen't quite answer the question for there are various versions even in the original language.

[Captain Ochre]

05-25-2003 @ 06:30 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=107075#post107075)
Bob Jenkins:

From themuzicman


I'm afraid that doen't quite answer the question for there are various versions even in the original language.

The use of the term "version" seems to have broadened midstream. If it came to that, then we have several "versions" of the King James Version.

What we find in the original language texts is textual variation, which is actually a far cry from differences in rendering from one language to another where sentence structures and word choices vary widely.
Modern copyright laws have an impact here, as one cannot come up with new translation that matches another copyrighted version too closely--at least not without risking a lawsuit.

[Waterrock]

Greetings Bob Jenkins,

Before getting to your main question I would like to offer a clarification about something else. You stated that "Rome did achieve both secular and spiritual power thus becoming the parent of all of our current denominations."

In a historical sense, one could say that the Roman Catholic Church existed as an organization before other denominations existed as organizations. The Greek Orthodox Church would tend to disagree, on the grounds that the Orthodox Church *is* the real Catholic church, from which a bishop of Rome departed centuries ago in a schism. What I would like to point out is that the church's validity does not depend on historical pedigree. What counts is whether or not the Spirit is in charge.

BJ: "Which denomination today holds the most faithful view of Christianity as intended by God."

Among denominations, I'd say Freewill Baptists. But I think non-denominational fellowships are more Biblical yet. (I have in mind the Churches of Christ and Christian Churches, though quite a few Christians denounce them for their sacramental view of believer's baptism).

BJ: "Can another, which incorporates more liberal interpretation of scripture, bring into play modern society morality and prove more worthy of that position?"

I'm just not sure what you mean. Could you re-phrase that?

BJ: "I find that it is not enough to ask the atheist just to believe but the best place to acquire the correct beliefs should be pointed out as well."

True belief implies the desire to join the church and assist her endeavor to spread the good news. So this seems altogether reasonable to me too.

BJ: "What is the true denomination an Atheist should join?"

An atheist should not join any denomination or fellowship, as an atheist! But if you mean, where should an inquirer go to learn about New Testament Christianity, I'd say, a non-denominational Christian Church. Non-Calvinistic denominations with Anabaptist heritage might be the next-best thing.

BJ: "What is the true version of the bible an Atheist should read?"

Short answer: the New American Standard Bible.

BJ: "Are there other considerations?"

The New King James Version is also a good translation, just be sure to read the introduction and pay attention to the footnotes. Despite the textual differences in the text-base each of these translations used for the New Testament, I think God's message will come across to a reader who genuinely seeks God's guidance through the Word.

Yours in Christ,
Waterrock

[JardinPrayer]

I'm repeating a comment I made back on Page 1. I think it bears repeating. I hope it helps get some folks up out of the minutia and realizing what matters most:

"The best source on what it is to be Christian - for an athiest or anyone else - is Jesus Christ. You'll find Him in every denomination and every translation of the bible. You'll find Him in the Greek and in the Latin and in the English. And, He says the same thing in all those places: "Seek and you shall find." Denomination or translation irregardless - just seek...everywhere."

I don't understand why people would want to spend so much time looking for THE answer, THE version, THE interpretation...or why they would want to spend so much time debunking others' hard-earned interpretations. It's about Jesus. No?

Peace,
JardinPrayer

[David O]

My father was an atheist before he switched teams and became a Christian missionary. I would have recommended the Blue letter Bible website to him, as well as the KJV. I trust that translation more than the new ones (received text issue), and a lot of our western history of Christianity used that version. I would recommend avoidance of the NIV. On the Athiest Cynic's Bible site it is a King James Version Bible.