God Causes Believers To Sin:For Nahum

[seer]

Nahun said:

We see above why God causes the unbeliever to sin. But why would God cause His people to sin (NOT practice sin)? So they might cry out: "O Jehovah, why do You make us wander from Your ways? You harden our heart from Your fear. For Your servants' sake, return the tribes of Your inheritance" (Isaiah 63:17).

First, this is a judgement for past rebellion see vs.10. Second, what do you mean "practice" sin? The jews Isaiah was speaking of were practicing sin all over the place. And since you believe that God causes all things why didn't God simply cause His people to call out to Him instead of first causing them to sin then to cry out? Why was sin necessary?

Another point Nahun, when I as a believer sin (if what you say is true) then I am just as much in the will of God when I sin as when I'am obedient. And since I am going God's will when I sin, I should rejoice - I mean doing God's will should give us cause to rejoice - correct?

[GoBahnsen]

Nahun said:

We see above why God causes the unbeliever to sin. But why would God cause His people to sin (NOT practice sin)? So they might cry out: "O Jehovah, why do You make us wander from Your ways? You harden our heart from Your fear. For Your servants' sake, return the tribes of Your inheritance" (Isaiah 63:17).

First, this is a judgement for past rebellion see vs.10. Second, what do you mean "practice" sin? The jews Isaiah was speaking of were practicing sin all over the place. And since you believe that God causes all things why didn't God simply cause His people to call out to Him instead of first causing them to sin then to cry out? Why was sin necessary?

Another point Nahun, when I as a believer sin (if what you say is true) then I am just as much in the will of God when I sin as when I'am obedient. And since I am going God's will when I sin, I should rejoice - I mean doing God's will should give us cause to rejoice - correct?This a nice can of worms.

Being a Calvinist, I believe God is in control of everthing and that nothing happens but that it did not pass through the mind of God before creation began. After that I see a lot of mystery.

I honestly think we humans often lack the knowledge of God's ways. I used to want to say that God doesn't love everyone, because I believe that's true properly understood. But since it is really beyond me and I'm not sure God wants me to go around saying He doesn't love everyone, I have stopped saying that. I could hear Him saying to me "Be silent GB, how do you know who I love. I am love, so be careful what you say." Yes Lord, forgive thy servant of his foolish speech.

God causing His people to sin? Wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole. Does God know they will sin? Yes. Does God tempt them? Clearly not, the Bible tells us that one. Does God allow them to sin? Looks that way. Could God stop them from sinning? Sure. Does God plan their sin? God has planned all of creation from the beginning and sin is in the plan. Does God hate sin? Yes. Is one in the will of God when one sins? The person sinning is violating God's law, but at that same time they end up doing exactly what God had planned on. Did God make them sin? What does that mean anyway? Make them/cause them to? I think you have to be God to answer that. What's it like to be God? I don't know.

Could you imagine God taking us on a supernatural tour of the universe? Passing through a black hole and flying into the sun? Then a final stop in outter darkness and the lake of fire? After that He sets you back down on earth, touches your mind, so that you can still think instead of spending the rest of your days with your mouth open and drool running out. You know, we might all be a little more careful with our words after that.



Nahum should be very careful how he answers here. Don't rush in where angels fear to tread. I think he can quote scriptures that might seemingly support his view. It's trying to explain those verses that could get him in hot water.

I'm a Calvinist, slowly learning to shut my mouth on a lot of things I used to think I knew about.

[themuzicman]

GoB:

Now you see why many people are abandoning this aspect of Calvin's teachings.

Micheal

[GoBahnsen]

GoB:

Now you see why many people are abandoning this aspect of Calvin's teachings.

MichealPoor Nahum, I recall the other day he wanted to know where he had failed to follow my advice. And I don't think he had even seen this thread. Well maybe he will now. It was my bad, sorry Nahum, I lost track of which thread I was on.

Michael, you spelled your name wrong. Do you have a ghost writer? Anyway, could you elaborate a bit more. I'm not sure I know what aspect of Calvin's teachings you are referring to. That God causes people to sin? I don't think Calvin taught that, at least not in the sense of primary causes.

[seer]

No response Nahum?