What Sin(s) Can Separate The Believer From God?

[seer]

I do not want to deal with the sin of unbelief here. But rather I'am dealing with the believing Christian who sins (maybe a lot or a little). Which one of these or group of these can separate the believer from God:

A couple of proof texts:

Romans 6:14

"For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace."

Rom.7:4

"Likewise, my brethren, you have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God."


Rom.4:15

"For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression."

So we are dead to the law. We are not under the law. And where there is no law there is no sin. So what sin(s) can convict the Christian?

[GoBahnsen]

I do not want to deal with the sin of unbelief here. But rather I'am dealing with the believing Christian who sins (maybe a lot or a little). Which one of these or group of these can separate the believer from God:

A couple of proof texts:

Romans 6:14

"For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace."

Rom.7:4

"Likewise, my brethren, you have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God."


Rom.4:15

"For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression."

So we are dead to the law. We are not under the law. And where there is no law there is no sin. So what sin(s) can convict the Christian?But there is God's law nevertheless. Has God abrogated His law? Well, He did do away with some of it. Dietary law for one. But has God set aside the ten commandments, for example? Is it now ok for a Christian to commit adultery?

As to the true "elect of God Christian", there is no sin that can separate him/her from the love of God in Christ Jesus. Does that mean they have license to sin? God forbid. How are we who have died to sin to live any longer in it?

In other words we don't choose to sin as Christians. We don't say, I'm going to do this even though God forbids it. To live that way is to be in doubt that one is really following Christ anyway. The sin Christians commit is that which comes with living in this body. We wrestle with it. We eat too much. We sleep too much. We talk too much. We don't pray about everything, etc. etc. We just plain fall short of the glory of God daily.

But nothing can separate a true child of God from Christ. Paul makes that pretty clear. In fact he was persuaded.

[Ormly]

But there is God's law nevertheless. Has God abrogated His law? Well, He did do away with some of it. Dietary law for one. But has God set aside the ten commandments, for example? Is it now ok for a Christian to commit adultery?What law, GB, the one written for the Jews or the one written in man from creation? If it is the ten commandments you have in mind then you must spell it out more clearly. Some righteous never heard of the ten commandments.

As to the true "elect of God Christian", there is no sin that can separate him/her from the love of God in Christ Jesus. Does that mean they have license to sin? God forbid. How are we who have died to sin to live any longer in it?If you are the "elect of God Christian" you won't sin. If you reside in the kingdom of God's [government] you can't sin. BTW. who is Paul speaking to; you never say.

In other words we don't choose to sin as Christians. We don't say, I'm going to do this even though God forbids it. To live that way is to be in doubt that one is really following Christ anyway. The sin Christians commit is that which comes with living in this body. We wrestle with it. We eat too much. We sleep too much. We talk too much. We don't pray about everything, etc. etc. We just plain fall short of the glory of God daily.So what are you personally doing about it?

But nothing can separate a true child of God from Christ. Paul makes that pretty clear. In fact he was persuaded.So what is a true "child of God" and is he one if he is persuaded, by poor teaching, that he can't stop sinning as you would have us to believe and thus take God's word lightly when he considers his own Spiritual state? In other words, your teaching allows us to make excuses for not pressing in that we might receive the whole council of God as a disciple should be about learning how to do. Need a role model? I'll point you to one -- or two.:ahem:

[GoBahnsen]

What law, GB, the one written for the Jews or the one written in man from creation? If it is the ten commandments you have in mind then you must spell it out more clearly. Some righteous never heard of the ten commandments. The ten, and I did say it. And even though you don'y wanna hear it. There are none righteous, no not so much as one.



If you are the "elect of God Christian" you won't sin. If you reside in the kingdom of God's [government] you can't sin. BTW. who is Paul speaking to; you never say.
I think a case can be made that the Christian's new nature doesn't sin, it's his rotten flesh that he still drags around that sins or brings him into sin.


So what are you personally doing about it?Glad you asked Orm, because we shouldn't take sin lightly. What do I do? Well I do what any Christian would, I take advantage of the means of grace God has given. Staying in the Word daily, has a washing effect. Daily prayer draws be into communion with God and strengthens me in my inner man. Fellowship with true believers. Especially not forsaking the gathering of myself on the Lord's day with my fellow Christians. Partaking of the Lord's supper, with confession of my sin and receiving grace through that sacrament. Stuff like that.


So what is a true "child of God" and is he one if he is persuaded, by poor teaching, that he can't stop sinning as you would have us to believe and thus take God's word lightly when he considers his own Spiritual state? I wouldn't say that Christians can't stop sinning, as much as I would say, that Christians don't stop sinning. In other words, Christians can and do overcome sin. Yet, even as they mature, they discover sinful attitudes and things that they have been doing all along, that they never even knew were sin before.

Sin becomes magnified in the Christian's eyes. But were a Christian to try and rid himself of all sin in order to get right with God, he would be missing the very fact that he is already right with God, being found in Christ. In other words, it is a mistake to try and clean up our act, so that we can come to God.

If we do that we're legalists and we'll never get clean enough anyway. This is the problem with "overcomer" or "perfectionism" preaching. It get's the Christian's eyes onto himself and his failures, rather than keeping his eyes on Christ and His perfections for the believer.

In other words, your teaching allows us to make excuses for not pressing in that we might receive the whole council of God as a disciple should be about learning how to do. Need a role model? I'll point you to one -- or two.:ahem:I don't think so Orm. As far as a suggested role model...if they are the ones you have been following, then no thanks. I hesitate to say this Orm, but you are just ... Oh, never mind. I'm a mod now Orm, so you have a nice day.

[Ormly]

The ten, and I did say it. And even though you don'y wanna hear it. There are none righteous, no not so much as one.
I believe that's only verse you know. Tell me, was Abraham righteous? If so how'd he get that way? When you explain him away then speak of Job, Moses, Must I go on with answering your nonsense?


I think a case can be made that the Christian's new nature doesn't sin, it's his rotten flesh that he still drags around that sins or brings him into sin.
Don't be to generous here, ok. It is only the nature of Jesus Christ, ya know? ---no, I guess you don't know, I forgot.


Glad you asked Orm, because we shouldn't take sin lightly. What do I do? Well I do what any Christian would, I take advantage of the means of grace God has given. Staying in the Word daily, has a washing effect. Daily prayer draws be into communion with God and strengthens me in my inner man. Fellowship with true believers. Especially not forsaking the gathering of myself on the Lord's day with my fellow Christians. Partaking of the Lord's supper, with confession of my sin and receiving grace through that sacrament. Stuff like that.
Nominal stuff based in presumption, to be sure. Somehow I can't see you crying out to God as a man unworthy.


I wouldn't say that Christians can't stop sinning, as much as I would say, that Christians don't stop sinning. In other words, Christians can and do overcome sin. Yet, even as they mature, they discover sinful attitudes and things that they have been doing all along, that they never even knew were sin before.
Ah, yes, maturing. How does one do that when all he does is petition God when he prays? You should easily be able to speak to that. I mean, at least you think you are maturing. How's Blackeby and Warren these days.

Sin becomes magnified in the Christian's eyes. But were a Christian to try and rid himself of all sin in order to get right with God, he would be missing the very fact that he is already right with God, being found in Christ. In other words, it is a mistake to try and clean up our act, so that we can come to God. More apples mixed with oranges again, I'm afraid.

If we do that we're legalists and we'll never get clean enough anyway. This is the problem with "overcomer" or "perfectionism" preaching. It get's the Christian's eyes onto himself and his failures, rather than keeping his eyes on Christ and His perfections for the believer.
OH, Baloney! No wonder the church is in such bad shape. Lets tear these verses out of the Bible then:

1 John 5:4-5 (NASB-U)
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. [5] Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

Rev. 2:7 (NASB-U)
'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.'

Rev. 2:11 (NASB-U)
'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.'

Rev. 2:17 (NASB-U)
'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, to him I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and a new name written on the stone which no one knows but he who receives it.'

Rev. 2:26 (NASB-U)
'He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations;
Rev. 3:5 (NASB-U)
'He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
Rev. 3:12 (NASB-U)
'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.
Rev. 3:21 (NASB-U)
'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
Rev. 21:7 (NASB-U)
"He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.

Mind you Christ is speaking to the 'CHURCHES" NOT the unsaved!

I don't think so Orm. As far as a suggested role model...if they are the ones you have been following, then no thanks. I hesitate to say this Orm, but you are just ... Oh, never mind. I'm a mod now Orm, so you have a nice day.
I believe I'll go back to my "Duh" remark because I had in mind as a role model[s], Jesus and Paul. And you say you are a what? --- "Moderator"? -- oh my:ahem:

[Spokoina]

I dont think it is what kind or how many sins. I do believe it is what heart you have and whether you harden your heart when you are convicted or whether you let your heart break to the Lord.

Hardening is over a period of time, a process, as is brokeness. For some, just not wanting to admit they are prideful can harden their heart, others, it is alcohol, others, it is adultery.

When you seek to hide from the Lord, pretending in all hardness that you are just all that and a bag of chips, then you are in dangerous territory. Pride goeth before the fall.....

No fooling God ever, on the intents of our heart. And he knows when we are trying to get one over and when we just are weak and need to let him be strong.

[smaller]

There is not a SINGLE NAMED BELIEVER in all the BIBLE that is said to have "lost" their "salvation" via the fate to come of "the Lake of Fire."

For lack of a specific example that doctrine needs to be tossed into the Lake.

[GoBahnsen]

I believe that's only verse you know. Tell me, was Abraham righteous? If so how'd he get that way? When you explain him away then speak of Job, Moses, Must I go on with answering your nonsense?



For the sake of others I will say this much. Who sought out Abraham?
Who revealed Himself unto Job, lest Job be found offering up sacrifices unto idols? Who saw to it that Moses was raised in Pharaoh's house and then appeared to him in a burning bush? Who made sure these men knew Him?

Or did they just happen to be wiser than the rest? Do they have where with to boast?