Baptists Calvinists,huh?

[acalvinist]

What is this mess I've been hearing the last several years. That baptists have historically been Calvinistic. Baptists have always believed in universal atonement and falling from grace. I would appreciate any help and/or understanding you might be able to give.I have heard something about the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689. That is basically the Presbyterian Westminister confession of Faith,except for a few minor changes. Maybe you baptists are trying to "adopt" Calvinism from the Presbyterians.

[bar Jonah]

What is this mess I've been hearing the last several years. That baptists have historically been Calvinistic. Baptists have always believed in universal atonement and falling from grace. I would appreciate any help and/or understanding you might be able to give.I have heard something about the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689. That is basically the Presbyterian Westminister confession of Faith,except for a few minor changes. Maybe you baptists are trying to "adopt" Calvinism from the Presbyterians.
I've heard in the last few years, as well, that some Baptists are Calvinist. It was news to me -- I was raised S. Baptist in Texas, and I'd never even heard of a Calvinist Baptist til the last few years.

It's just my opinion that, while they aren't mutually exclusive by any means, Calvinism doesn't go very well with Dispensational theology, and Baptist churches are a haven of dispensationalism. Dispyism views how God has changed the way He has dispensed His grace to believers at different times in history, in response to the actions and decisions of men. So it shouldn't come to a surprise that they don't necessarily go together very well. But, it does happen. Heck, look at John Bunyon, a moderate dispensationalist and a hardcore Calvie. Heck, no one's perfect.

I, myself, believe that Open Creationism goes perfectly hand-in-glove with dispensationalism, as they both recognize and celebrate God's responsiveness and dynamic relationship with His creation.

[Calvinist4Him]

Was John Gill a Baptist? http://www.pbministries.org/books/gill/gills_archive.htm

Was C.H. Spurgeon a Baptist? http://www.spurgeon.org/mainpage.htm

Was A.W. Pink a Baptist? http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/pinks_archive.htm

I think many Baptists do tend to be "Calvinistic" in their theology, GENERAL Baptists on the other hand are another story...

[dizzle]

James White is a Reformed Baptist

[Sheepdog]

my understanding is that some Baptist congregations subscribe to TULIP, some don't.

[bar Jonah]

James White is a Reformed Baptist
Reformed Baptist? LOL Man, where I come from, that's an oxymoron. :doh:

[rmwilliamsjr]

in just a half an hour or so you can see the range of opinions on this question:

check out:
from: http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/baptist.htm

he Baptists derive from two different streams. Particular Baptists usually claim a line of descent that goes back to the Reformers. General Baptists and Landmark Baptists trace their descent from the Anabaptists.
http://www.spurgeon.org/%7Ephil/images/indent.gifThe Baptists are probably the most diverse of all denominations. The Particular Baptists have produced several fine theologians, including John Gill, James P. Boyce, and J. L. Dagg. Augustus Strong, another well-known Baptist theologian, was an Amyraldian (four-point Calvinist).

the best links list i found on the topic, covering the very radical claims like:
from: http://users.aol.com/libcfl/trail.htm

"The Trail of Blood . . ."

Following the Christians Down Through the Centuries . . .
or
The History of Baptist Churches From the Time of Christ,
Their Founder, to the Present Day

by J. M. Carroll

to:
from: http://www.volstate.net/~credo/page13.html

A Primer on Baptist History


The True Baptist Trail



Preface

Most Christians today do not have the foggiest idea what Church history looks like or how important it is to understand. Even when we get specific with Church history, such as Baptist history, people are still in the dark. This booklet, then, is a brief history of the foundation of the group called Baptist. It is intended to challenge you to explore Baptist history as well as all of Church history.

Let us start with the basic premise about Baptist history: the modern Baptist denomination originated in England and Holland in the early seventeenth century. This origin has been debated down through history, but our goal here is to show that our premise is closer to the true historical facts than the other positions being held. From the early 1600's, we see two major groups emerging in England that we can classify as Baptist: General and Particular Baptist. Before we explore these two groups in detail, however, let us first look at the history that gave birth to these two groups.

[Ormly]

A Primer on Baptist History


The True Baptist Trail



Preface

Most Christians today do not have the foggiest idea what Church history looks like or how important it is to understand. Even when we get specific with Church history, such as Baptist history, people are still in the dark. This booklet, then, is a brief history of the foundation of the group called Baptist. It is intended to challenge you to explore Baptist history as well as all of Church history.

Let us start with the basic premise about Baptist history: the modern Baptist denomination originated in England and Holland in the early seventeenth century. This origin has been debated down through history, but our goal here is to show that our premise is closer to the true historical facts than the other positions being held. From the early 1600's, we see two major groups emerging in England that we can classify as Baptist: General and Particular Baptist. Before we explore these two groups in detail, however, let us first look at the history that gave birth to these two groups.



And then there was the great Welsh revival and blew the whole thing out of the water.

<You gotta just love how God moves>

[Solly]

Calvinistic Baptists date from circa 1633, after a group of Calvinistic Independants - who had originally seceeded from the Anglican Church for not being Reformed enough - became convinced of Believer's Baptism. In the UK they continue to this day, via three main groups, The Grace Baptists, the Gospel Standard Baptists, and the Reformed Baptists. They include such worthies as John Bunyan, John Gill, William Carey, Charles Spurgeon, William Gadsby - Evangelists all!!

General Baptists date from 1610, and influence from Menno Simons. They died out, were revived, died out, were revived, and eventually merged with the Baptist union when it went Arminian in the 19th century.

I can't really fill you in on American Baptist history, as it's a bit more complicated.

[bar Jonah]

I saw that when I then immediately read the article. LOL :doh:

Great article! :rithumb:

[Solly]

What, the Trail of Blood? It's a minority view, i must point out. Just because people practised believers immersion didn't make them baptists, and some Baptist successionists will lay hold on any anti-catholic heretical group to make their point.

[Berean Todd]

It's just my opinion that, while they aren't mutually exclusive by any means, Calvinism doesn't go very well with Dispensational theology,
I can honestly say that I've never, ever heard that. Have you heard of Charles Hodge? How about LS Chaffer, one of the great early dispies, and founder of DTS? They go perfectly well together.

Dispyism views how God has changed the way He has dispensed His grace to believers at different times in history,
You're doing well thusfar ...

in response to the actions and decisions of men.
Ah, but you lost it there. Never have I read a serious dispensationalist, outside of this recent phoenomana of open theism, that ascribed to this belief. God has dealt differently with man throughout the ages, but where does it ever say that He does so because of man's actions? You are making God subject to man - who is sovereign here? That is a decidedly, and wholly open theistic statement, and is not representative of dispensationalism at all.

So it shouldn't come to a surprise that they don't necessarily go together very well.
As an Acts 2 dispy, calvinistic believer, and current DTS student I highly disagree with your conclusions, sorry to say.

[Ormly]

God changing the way He gives Grace? --- Never!


And I'm not sorry I have to say that. :ahem: