OSAS or NOSAS: What does Hebrews teach?

[Iceman]

Okay.... here are the rules of this thread: I want to discuss

Once Saved, Always Saved
vs.
Not Once Saved, Always Saved


However, I want to use Hebrews as the sole debating text. Other passages of Scripture are acceptable only if they are quoted by the author of Hebrews.

Why limit the discussion to only Hebrews, you may ask? Simple. While the Bible should never be taken as parts, but as a complete whole, and different passages do support one another, I'm a firm believer in the fact that God and his Spirit-inspired writers could form coherent thoughts in their head. Very few of us would write a letter or a book to our best friend and say something like, "I'd go into this deeper, but just connect this with everything else I've even written to you and you'll get the idea." In the same way, I really think that specific passages of Scripture can teach concrete doctrine without support from other passages. The other passages are just that: support.

Therefore, I want to systematically study the entire context of Hebrews (not just Hebrews 6) and form a concrete understanding of what the author believed and taught.

I will be posting my first observation within the next day or two.

As typical, I can only post occassionally, and I fully expect that any interest in this topic will cause the thread to jump ahead without my participation. That's fine. Just as long as the thread stays focused on Hebrews, then I'll enjoy reading along.

[Iceman]

Wo hoo! First anti-spam point!

For the record, I am reformed Baptist, so you can guess that I believe the text supports OSAS, and will be working towards that slant. I am also opposed to apostacy (sp?).

[Ric]

The believer who receives Jesus as Lord in all sincerity and truth will never sincerely or willingly go back into the practice of sin, will never "trample on the Son of God" (Heb. 10:29); he will never regard His shed blood as unholy or profane (koinon), and will never wantonly insult the Holy Spirit. Anyone who can bring himself around to that kind of ungodliness and contempt toward his diving Savior never gave his heart to Him in the first place. Like Judas, he may have thought that he would just "try Jesus" and see how he liked Him, and whether he would obtain from Him the advantages and blessings he craved for himself and for his own sake. Since he never really faced up to the claims of Christ to total lordship over his life, he was a mere counterfeit Christian right from the start. God is never satisfied with counterfeits. He only accepts the real thing. He can never be deceived, even by the most pious of poses. He reads our hearts.

[mandolin]

So long as everyone understands that Once Saved Always Saved still requires the need for personal perseverance, than both once saved always saved and not once sabed always saved are true. As is seen in Hebrews 6, it can be supported that a believer can fall away...while OSAS advocates will claim he was never saved in the first place. Both sides teach a basic truth: we must persevere to be saved.

Personally... I think both sides are correct in this debate. A person cannot fall away...and a person can. This is a radical paradox about the amazing nature of our God.

[Arminian]

I fully expect that any interest in this topic will cause the thread to jump ahead without my participation.

I'll pretend not to be here for a while. Btw, what commentary are you using?

[seer]

Personally... I think both sides are correct in this debate. A person cannot fall away...and a person can. This is a radical paradox about the amazing nature of our God.

LOL! You would make a good Calvinist! :cheers:

[ascund]

Greetings

The Book of Hebrews gives the follow features of Jesus’ ministries.

(1) Jesus is our High Priest. He faithfully (3:1) has purged our sins (1:3), makes reconciliation for the sins (2:17-18). But since He is seated in the heavenly places (8:1) this work is finished! Sins have been forgiven, reconciliation has been accomplished, no more sacrifices can ever be made (7:27). For by one offering He has perfected FOR EVER them that are sanctified (10:14). Jesus understands our situation (4:14-15) and is able to grant grace and mercy (4:16). As our faithful High Priest He is both the author (5:9) and finisher (12:2) of our faith. He is the forerunner for all those who believe in Him (6:20).

(2) Jesus is the Surety (7:22) of the New Covenant. As the equivalent of the co-signer of a bank loan, Jesus supplies the covenantal requirements that God expects when first named believers fails in their tasks. From God’s view, with Jesus as the surety, nothing is lacking in the covenantal arrangement.

(3) Jesus is able to save to the Uttermost (7:25) them that come to God through Himself.

(4) Jesus is the Mediator (8:6) of the New Covenant. As 100% God He is able to represent God in the mediation. He makes sure that God gets people that love Him, who are holy, unblemished and perfect. As 100% human He is able to represent humans. He makes sure that God is faithful to fulfill each of the seven covenantal clauses. Jesus keeps both sides in line.


Hence, with Jesus has already eliminated sin, has already paid for all of our shortcomings and future delinquencies, and can successfully mediate with God, we are saved to the UTTERMOST!

The Book of Hebrews teaches OSAS !
Lloyd

[AVmetro]

You make a good point, Iceman, about being able to understand an author's intention. I've been reading Pink's commentary on this passage. So far it's decent.

By the way, being Reformed and holding to a credo position, I really wish there was a Reformed Baptist congregation in my area :) Alas...

AV

[lvdyou]

This is a dumb conversation. If you don't have the faith to believe that God can save eternally at new birth, what god do you really believe in then? What kind of eternal life is not eternal? Give God some credit for heavens sake to be able to know when to give life eternal at new birth in which it can never be taken away. Please.