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Solly
October 26th 2004, 09:20 AM
No Longer a Christian: a rant
by Karen Horst Cobb
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1025-25.htm

I was told in Sunday school the word "Christian" means to be Christ-like, but the message I hear daily on the airwaves from the “christian ” media are words of war, violence, and aggression. Throughout this article I will spell christian with a small c rather than a capital, since the term (as I usually hear it thrown about) does not refer to the teachings of the one I know as the Christ. I hear church goers call in to radio programs and explain that it was a mistake not to kill every living thing in Fallujah. They quote chapter and verse from the old testament about smiting the enemies of Israel. The fear of fighting the terrorists on our soil rather than across the globe causes the voices to be raised as they justify the latest prison scandal or other accounts of the horrors of war . The words they speak are words of destruction, aggression, dominance, revenge, fear and arrogance. The host and the callers echo the belief in the righteousness of our nation's killing. There are reminders to pray for our “christian” president who is doing the work of the Lord: Right to Life, Second Amendmendment, sanctity of marriage, welfare reform, war, kill, evil liberals. . . so much to fight, so much to destroy.

Let me tell you about the Christ I know. He was born poor to an unmarried woman [well, she was engaged - solly]. He was not born into a family of privilege. He was a radical. He said, “It was said an eye for and eye and a tooth of a tooth, but now I say love your enemies and bless those who curse you.” He said, “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are those who mourn for they shall be comforted. Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God.” (Mattew 5: 3-9) He said, “All those who are called by my name will enter the kingdom of heaven." He said, "People will know true believers if they have the fruit of the spirit--love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, self control.“

He knew he would be led like a sheep to the slaughter. He responded with “Father forgive them.“ He explained that in Christ there is neither Jew nor gentile, slave or free male nor female. He explained that even to be angry is akin to murder. He said the temple of God is not a building, but is in the hearts of those are called by his name. He was called "the Prince of Peace." His final days were spent in prayer, so that he could endure what was set before him, not on how he could overpower the evil government of that day. When they came for him he was led away and didn’t resist his death sentence.

This is a stark contrast to the call of the religious christian right, who vote for war and weapons, and suggest towns and villages be leveled to bring freedom and peace to the people. They proudly boast this country’s superiority, suggesting God has blessed our nation. Today, as I listened to a popular christian news network, I was reminded that in the last days, even God’s elect will be deceived, (II Timothy 3:13). When the religious media moguls preaching prosperity spout their rhetoric, I am reminded of the difficulty Jesus described of a rich man’s ability to enter the kingdom of God. (Matthew 19: 24) (http://www.4religious-right.info/rr_economics.htm) Some who believe they are fighting evil will cry to the Lord, and he will say “I never knew you.“ (Matthew 22). They will have a form or godliness but will deny the power (II Timothy 3:5) to move mountains through prayer. (Matthew 17:20). Jesus explained that he has not given us a spirit of fear, but a spirit of power, love, and a sound mind. (II Timothy 1:17) I wonder if the innocent moms and dads, brothers and sisters, and aunts and uncles, and grandmas and grandpas who were the victims of US military weapons (the never reported collateral damages we are protected from in the “liberal” nightly news) felt the love of Jesus with the shock and awe. I wonder if the surviving family members now understand His radical love and that they no longer have any need for weapons or defense.

The solutions to the social issues used to manipulate good, decent people have no resemblance to how Jesus responded to the social concerns of his time. He never once mentioned the “right to life”; the year he was born King Herod ordered the execution of all babies. (Matthew 2:16). He knew that passing laws does not change the heart. As a follower of his teaching I believe in the right to life, including the children in Iraq who stumble onto land mines, cross the street at the wrong time, or who are snuggly tucked within the warm bellies of their wounded or grieving mothers as US fighter jets fly overhead. These are living, breathing children. The killing of these little ones are never even reported, and our tax dollars pay for these bombs. I believe in the right to life for those in the United States who are unwanted and impoversihed. I believe in the right to life of the naive kid who was promised by the recruiter they could choose a desk job and still get their education paid or could see the world or could accelerate their life or could play a very realistic video game from a cockpit.

As a shelter worker, I know first hand the reality of unwanted children. I know the reality of this right wing rhetoric when week after week I begged and pleaded with people to give up only one night every three months to sit with these unwanted living children for a few hours while the overworked house parents had a night off. Of the few I found, many changed their minds when they discovered that they would need to wear rubber gloves to change the babies diapers. These “believers” stand on the street corners holding right to life signs and then vote against medical assistance for the mothers and their unwanted children creating an impossible existence for them. The few of these abortion activists who might adopt some of these unwanted children generally want the white and the healthy. The ones with hydrocephalous, tracheotomies, emotional/ mental problems and communicable diseases along with their life long medical expenses can be someone else’s problems.

I cringe as many christians vote for policies that deny help to the poor in our own county, who vote to support the war and military strength, assuring the latest weapons are developed and that the heavens will be dominated by the military of the United States. We develop electromagnetic weapons to shatter skulls, split the earth (http://www.raven1.net/emr13.htm) and silently destroy a body as a thief in the night. Studies are even now searching for the frequencies to override the freewill. These unbelievable technologies are a reality and DNA specific weapons can or soon will target a specific nationality (http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/981116/1998111619.html ).I weep as the waters Jesus walked on become contaminated with uranium. (http://www.greendove.net/resources3.htm) I grieve as the missiles fly through the atmosphere on the continent where Jesus rose into the sky, defying death and the grave and where the Holy Sprit first descended. I cry out at the horrors of war and the indignity of the prisons so close to where He took captivity captive. So I am no longer a christian if Christianity has become what is presented to us by our christian president and christian media. I cannot support the right of the United States and Israel to develop and use the most heinous weapons ever imagined. I want no part of a temple built on the blood of the innocent. The sheep have been lead astray by the teachings of prosperity and misinterpretation of the final battle between good and evil. Many no longer can recognize the voice of the good Shepard.

Some “good christians” even work at weapons facilities. It is not a stretch to say that a woman who tightens a last rivet on a shiny new missile just off the assembly line might be the same woman who licks the gold star on the attendance chart in morning Sunday school. The missile could be launched by the kid in the youth group who reads the invocation and it will find it’s destiny at a “target of interest” which might or might not have been a result of good intelligence. The collection plate circulates children are taught to love their enemies and bless those who curse them.

The statements and lifestyle of Jesus are difficult for me to understand. What would he say to evil dictators? This God would not justify 15,000 or more deaths. Even the wrathful jealous God of the old testament spared whole cities for a few righteous souls. For christians, to support mass killings as a way to prevent future deaths is not at all like Christ. He would not say,"When I am talking about war I am really talking about peace," like the self professed christian President proudly states. Who but God has the right to determine what price a people should pay for their freedom? The religious leaders on the airwaves today respond to the voices of the few brave peacemakers who dare to speak out. They say that pacifism is insane, and that it doesn’t make sense, but what is forgotten is that logic and faith are separate entities. I believe in the example of Jesus and his admonition to love your enemies and bless those who curse you . Do I understand how this works on the global scale? Do I know what Jesus would say to all the world’s leaders? No, nor do I totally understand how the example of Christ’s life and his message of love works in the world today. That’s why I need faith. Am I always correct in my assessments and actions? No, that’s why I need grace. Am I brave and unafraid? No, that’s why I need the perfect love that casts out fear. Some put trust in Chariots and some in horses but I will remember the name of the lord our God--the Prince of Peace. Perhaps politics has no place for imitators of Christ.

Who will show the face of Christ to the world? Who will speak His radical message? I hear from these so called imitators of Christ that the pacifists are a collection of kids, hippies, socialists and communists who haven’t got a clue. Some of us, however, have come to our beliefs as a result of careful and prayerful study of the scriptures and admonishment from our elders. Many are Mennonite, Amish, Quaker and other Anabaptists, whose ancestors did not resist their torturers and were drowned, burnt at the stake and flogged for their pacifist stand. They truly followed the example of Christ, and their resistance against the catastrophic effects of the merging of church and state cost them a great price. Churches today have signed onto the government plan and have agreed to look the other way in exchange for tax free privileges. The true message of Christ still exists to some degree in the quiet of the land to peacemakers, but sadly these good people have been deceived by the angry words from a righteous sounding religious media majority broadcasting in cars and trucks and tractors all over our land ironically preaching the “good news of war for peace“ and convincing 24-7 “liberal“ bashing. I suspect there are many who share my sorrow at the loss of what it means to be Christ-like, but our voice is seldom heard. The blaring rhetoric drowns out the still small voice of the mighty God. Peace used be the opposite of war, Conservative used to mean the tendency to conserve resources. Liberal used to mean kind and generous, and Christian used to mean like Christ.

So I am no longer a christian but just a person who continues trying to follow the example of Christ. I’ll let him call me what he wants when I see him face to face. Until then, I will pray that someday people like me will be able to reclaim the meaning of Christ’s identity, and the world will see the effects of the radical message of Christ‘s love--the perfect love that casts out fear.

Karen Cobb is a freelance writer and artist in Santa Fe, NM and can be contacted at cairnhcobb@msn.com.

--looking for a nobler form of Christianity

Jaltus
October 26th 2004, 10:21 AM
In some ways I agree with her and in others I do not. I am not pro-war, I am pro-life. I vote for Bush not because of Iraq, but because of the Supreme Court. 1,100 Americans were killed in Iraq whereas over 3,000,000 were killed via abortion.

Which is the greater evil?

geochron
October 26th 2004, 10:29 AM
I didn't realise it was only American lives that counted :wink:

Piebald
October 26th 2004, 10:46 AM
EDIT: Oops, wrong thread :blush:

Jaltus
October 26th 2004, 10:52 AM
I didn't realise it was only American lives that counted :wink:

(I would have put the combined total, but I never see how many Iraqi casualties there are, the joy of biased American media)

Dee Dee Warren
October 26th 2004, 11:00 AM
Another unbalanced presentation of the Christian message. Gee, I wonder what she does with the fact that God is a God of War - or what He did to Jerusalem in 70AD or how Christ rides on a white horse slaying his enemies which are food for the birds - there is truth in her column, but it turns inot being untruth by not declaring the WHOLE counsel of God.

edited out the rest, no time or energy or a battle I wish to fight now


The few of these abortion activists who might adopt some of these unwanted children generally want the white and the healthy. The ones with hydrocephalous, tracheotomies, emotional/ mental problems and communicable diseases along with their life long medical expenses can be someone else’s problems.
Oh really? Sounds to me like a smear - and completely different from both my experience and information that I have heard. Where are her FACTS for this smear? UGH!

Jaltus
October 26th 2004, 11:15 AM
Did I mention that my sister adopted a brother and sister, the sister has partial blindness and the brother has serious brain damage, and they are Hispanic.

The Laughing Man
October 26th 2004, 11:23 AM
I didn't realise it was only American lives that counted :wink:

It is as far as most liberals and the biased media are concerned.

Dee Dee Warren
October 26th 2004, 11:24 AM
That statement from what I know is ludicrious and shows an easiness to defame to further one's own polemic IMHO. I don't have statistics but I have personal experience with knowing folks who have taken in "unwanted" (that is just a horrible term) children that were not "perfect white children" - in fact one man I just met who was an active abortion protester took in several black children as that is where the need was - my church has taken hundreds of children off of the foster care system - they have bought several homes in which they house unwed mothers so that they can get schooling to support themselves.... so Ms. "pacifist"Cobb, is demeaning the efforts with one stroke of the pen of the MANY who do the right thing Christ-like? IS IT???????? Yes, I am cheesed off by her statement.

Meh_Gerbil
October 26th 2004, 11:48 AM
I think the ability to distinguish faith in Christ from a political position or a national identity is very important. She is obviously in the process of making that distinction -- GOOD FOR HER!

Every believer needs to evaluate how they feel Christ would have them live. Again, GOOD FOR HER!

Dee Dee Warren
October 26th 2004, 11:51 AM
True Gerbil, but she is doing the same vilification that she does not like others to do to her position. And that one statement, which from what I know of the facts, which is primarily personal experience, is so off base and disrespectful to those who are doing differently that it coloured my whole perspective of this piece.

The Laughing Man
October 26th 2004, 11:52 AM
This author is a joke. First she starts out attacking nameless, faceless people:

I hear church goers call in to radio programs and explain that it was a mistake not to kill every living thing in Fallujah. They quote chapter and verse from the old testament about smiting the enemies of Israel. The fear of fighting the terrorists on our soil rather than across the globe causes the voices to be raised as they justify the latest prison scandal or other accounts of the horrors of war . The words they speak are words of destruction, aggression, dominance, revenge, fear and arrogance. The host and the callers echo the belief in the righteousness of our nation's killing. There are reminders to pray for our “christian” president who is doing the work of the Lord: Right to Life, Second Amendmendment, sanctity of marriage, welfare reform, war, kill, evil liberals. . . so much to fight, so much to destroy.

Exactly who says all this? I have yet to hear anyone speak like that. What are their names? Exactly when and where have they said these things? The lack of details make this woman's account highly suspect.

Of course, then this woman goes on to turn Christ into a false idol:

Let me tell you about the Christ I know. He was born poor to an unmarried woman [well, she was engaged - solly]. He was not born into a family of privilege. He was a radical. He said, “It was said an eye for and eye and a tooth of a tooth, but now I say love your enemies and bless those who curse you.” He said, “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are those who mourn for they shall be comforted. Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God.” (Mattew 5: 3-9) He said, “All those who are called by my name will enter the kingdom of heaven." He said, "People will know true believers if they have the fruit of the spirit--love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, self control.“

He knew he would be led like a sheep to the slaughter. He responded with “Father forgive them.“ He explained that in Christ there is neither Jew nor gentile, slave or free male nor female. He explained that even to be angry is akin to murder. He said the temple of God is not a building, but is in the hearts of those are called by his name. He was called "the Prince of Peace." His final days were spent in prayer, so that he could endure what was set before him, not on how he could overpower the evil government of that day. When they came for him he was led away and didn’t resist his death sentence.

Christ also violently drove the money-changers out of the temple and taught that those who live by the sword (e.g. "insurgents," terrorists, brutal dictators, etc.) will die by the sword. Also, the book of Revelation makes it abundantly clear (for those who ignore the Old Testament) that Christ is no pacifist. Yes, Christ was a radical, but that only applies to the status quo as created by the Pharisees et all. Christ's teachings were NOT radical in regards to the Old Testament scriptures. He did not contradict or cancel any OT teachings.

Rusty T
October 26th 2004, 11:52 AM
I see a lot of judgment in that article, but little self-examination.

rusty

Dee Dee Warren
October 26th 2004, 11:58 AM
Exactly who says all this?
The same people I guess who only want white perfect babies.

AtheistArchon
October 26th 2004, 11:58 AM
- :popcorn:

- I see a lot of judgement too.

The Laughing Man
October 26th 2004, 12:12 PM
But what kind of judgment?

Meh_Gerbil
October 26th 2004, 12:54 PM
True Gerbil, but she is doing the same vilification that she does not like others to do to her position. And that one statement, which from what I know of the facts, which is primarily personal experience, is so off base and disrespectful to those who are doing differently that it coloured my whole perspective of this piece.I completely understand.

I'm sympathetic to her position because I left religion for a relationship about 15 years ago. It took me the full 15 years to get over it. During that time (it was painful) I said things that make Karen look fair, honest, and kind in comparison.

So many people who leave spiritually abusive situations end up throwing out the relationship with Christ altogether, so when I read her post I'm so glad at the end that she is still with Christ. In light of that, the rest of it is meaningless to me because, if she still is with Christ, she'll continue to grow and gain wisdom over time.

Doesn't mean she isn't wrong on many counts.
I'm just glad she isn't over at exchristian.net

The rest will be fine.

(I understand your reaction as well -- here you are working on this site and working in the church and you prolly feel like your hard work and effort is being slammed.)

spiritmech
October 26th 2004, 01:11 PM
Well, then we should take her stance as an immature Christian, not as one that is fully developed. I've been in this situation too, but I came back as I matured. There are certain others that are trying to represent this lady as a follower of Jesus on the right track. She'll get there, but this is a detour. There's no shame in that. But she is making generalizations that just aren't true.

She will figure out what she needs from Christianity, and what she doesn't, and she'll be better for it in the long run.

Rusty T
October 26th 2004, 01:20 PM
She will figure out what she needs from Christianity, and what she doesn't, and she'll be better for it in the long run. I don't know why this statement struck me as hard as it did. Shouldn't we be concerned about being changed into the image of Christ rather than finding a Christianity that fills our needs? I think I understand what you meant by this comment, spiritmech, but I would only say that often that in submitting we find needs we never knew we had, and we also find that what we once considered needs were indeed only selfish wants.

rusty

spiritmech
October 26th 2004, 01:23 PM
Oh I agree, tizzi. I think that came off as harsh. For whatever reason, she feels that her church is letting her down. But that's exactly my point. She has expectations of the church to fill her needs when it's not going to. Once she gains a proper perspective of what God does for us, and what he doesn't, she'll have a better picture of who God is.

Bill Mutz
October 26th 2004, 01:51 PM
Well...I'm going to go out on a limb here and defend the really avid pro-lifers for a minute. If you really and truly believe that a fetus, embryo, or even zygote has as much right to live as an adult human being, the only proper thing for you to do is to fight tooth and nail to get the practice of abortion banned, lest you be ethically inconsistent. Though I see a "human life" as a thing until the day of its birth and, thus, think that anything done to it is ethically neutral, it is my responsibility as a liberal to make every effort to hold the views of others in as high regard as my own. If you think that a human life should be given the same ethical regard at conception as in infancy, childhood, or adulthood, I urge you to consider it a moral imperitive to throw all of your resources into efforts to have abortion banned, however much I disagree with it. I will vote against you, and I will fight you on it as valiantly as my beliefs warrent, but I will (or should) have more respect for you for defending what you believe should be given the same ethical regard as an infant than I would if you held such beliefs and made no such effort. This, I believe, is part of what it means to be a liberal. Though I do not believe in your god, may he give you his full blessing.

scottatiwu
October 26th 2004, 01:51 PM
considering all of this, that she is unbalanced and doesn't know YOUR particular group of friends or doesn't listen to YOUR Christian radio station, perhaps before we write her off for not examining herself, maybe we should examine ourselves against her critiques, and allow others to be challenged by them. Either way, I'm glad to see some valid criticism of the Bush administration coming from a Christian.

Amazing Rando
October 26th 2004, 02:24 PM
Another unbalanced presentation of the Christian message. Gee, I wonder what she does with the fact that God is a God of War - or what He did to Jerusalem in 70AD or how Christ rides on a white horse slaying his enemies which are food for the birds - there is truth in her column, but it turns inot being untruth by not declaring the WHOLE counsel of God.

edited out the rest, no time or energy or a battle I wish to fight now

Dee Dee this is really offensive.

He is not a God of war, he is a God of justice. BIG difference. Ares/Mars was a god of war, YHWH is most definitely not. The differences between being a war god and the Living God of the universe who is perfectly holy and just are vast.

While the Lord will wipe out evil and make all things new in his own good time, I believe that we're called for something better. Hence:

9Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. 10Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves. 11Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. 12Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. 13Share with God's people who are in need. Practice hospitality.
14Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited.
17Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. 20On the contrary:
"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head." 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

and

8Finally, all of you, live in harmony with one another; be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble. 9Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing. 10For,
"Whoever would love life
and see good days
must keep his tongue from evil
and his lips from deceitful speech.
11He must turn from evil and do good;
he must seek peace and pursue it.
12For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous
and his ears are attentive to their prayer,
but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil."

It is His to avenge, not ours.

Rahab
October 26th 2004, 02:31 PM
considering all of this, that she is unbalanced and doesn't know YOUR particular group of friends or doesn't listen to YOUR Christian radio station, perhaps before we write her off for not examining herself, maybe we should examine ourselves against her critiques, and allow others to be challenged by them. Either way, I'm glad to see some valid criticism of the Bush administration coming from a Christian.
I agree scottatiwu. She may place some high expectations on organized religion and the believers who are part of it, but some of her critiques are still valid IMO.

She is not unique as a christian who is critical of the current administration and the US religious partisanal mentality. I meet folks here in the US who are evangelical christians and have presented similar critiques. Interestingly enough, they are mostly part of the lower middle class nearing the poverty level.

I will add though that her comment regarding adoption of the "unwanted" children is strereotyping. I myself was blessed by a nurse friend of mine who adopted a trisomy infant who was bi racial. After the little one passed away at the age of 6 months, she adopted a CP african american girl.

One element which deters some prospective parents to adopt a severely handicaped infant or child is the cost of health care. Just rehab and physical therapy can cause financial stress.

As far as being selective only on the racial level, I must tell you that realisticaly there are some states in the Southern US where adoption of a black child by caucasian parents is discouraged. Mostly based on the prejudicial response the entire family will recieve. Bi racial couples are still frowned upon and somewhat rejected socialy in areas still paralized by racial prejudice.

Otherwise I find her article quite compelling as it indeed ought to trigger some degree of self examination on our part.

Duder
October 26th 2004, 02:32 PM
Gee, I wonder what she does with the fact that God is a God of War - or what He did to Jerusalem in 70AD or how Christ rides on a white horse slaying his enemies which are food for the birds - . . .

When I was a young boy, I used to play with those little green plastic Army men. I had quite a collection of them, with tanks, jeeps, aircraft and all - and in the privacy of my bedroom I fought great epic battles against the forces of evil with my little green army men. Maybe you had a brother or a male playmate who enjoyed the same game.

With all due respect, your characterization of God as a god of war has Him enjoying the same game, using us as his little green army men. Is playing war on this obscure backwater planet truly an activity befitting the supreme intelligence of the universe?

If Jesus of Nazareth spoke words of peace, and if an obscure writer on the Isle of Patmos has Him playing war and throwing an omnipotent temper fit in the last day, then clearly someone didn't write things down just right. I'd rather trust the direct quotes in Jesus' biographers over those psychadelic visions.

Amazing Rando
October 26th 2004, 03:34 PM
When I was a young boy, I used to play with those little green plastic Army men. I had quite a collection of them, with tanks, jeeps, aircraft and all - and in the privacy of my bedroom I fought great epic battles against the forces of evil with my little green army men. Maybe you had a brother or a male playmate who enjoyed the same game.

With all due respect, your characterization of God as a god of war has Him enjoying the same game, using us as his little green army men. Is playing war on this obscure backwater planet truly an activity befitting the supreme intelligence of the universe?

I agree with you here- but see my point above about God of justice versus a god of war.

Kevin Wayne
October 26th 2004, 05:06 PM
I find it amusing that a couple of times on this thread,the book of Revelation has been mentioned in the "Jesus was not a pacifist" argument. I have to assume they are referring to Rev 19:15ff. If one pays attention to context, it's obvious the sword coming out of the mouth of Christ is symbolic of the word of God, and so not meant to be taken as a literal event...

Trout
October 26th 2004, 05:25 PM
Rando:
He is not a God of war, he is a God of justice.

It's jimbo time. :hehe:

SteveF
October 26th 2004, 05:33 PM
I'm not really qualified to say whether he is a God of war, but as a child singing Onward Christian Soldiers I sure used to think he was! Getting out of school and seeing my Gran I used to find it hard to believe that this old lady was still a soldier.

Amazing Rando
October 27th 2004, 07:31 AM
It's jimbo time. :hehe:

War God! :rant: :rofl:

Amazing Rando
October 27th 2004, 07:32 AM
I'm not really qualified to say whether he is a God of war, but as a child singing Onward Christian Soldiers I sure used to think he was! Getting out of school and seeing my Gran I used to find it hard to believe that this old lady was still a soldier.

:lol: Yeah I'm beginning to have serious misgivings about that song!