Treatment for Depression

[Calvinist4Him]

So I went to the doctor not long ago and ended up with medication to treat depression. From what I gather, many people struggle with depression? Ok, the doctor gave me (Venlafaxine HCI) EFFEXOR XR capsules, and I've been taking them daily for like three weeks, and the change is subtle, perhaps not enough? I think I'm doing a little better, but it's difficult to tell at this stage. What other options might I look into if EFFEXOR XR doesn't do it for me?

[Raptor]

(Just wanted to add a :pray: for your depression.)

[Calvinist4Him]

Thanks bro. :smile:

[learning]

Hey brother, keep up with the meds, but also, maybe see if you can get the book 'Feeling Good' by David D. Burns, M.D. It is about how we often think too negatively about ourselves, things we wouldn'tbe critical of in others, we give ourselves grief over. Some of what we give ourselves grief over, is true, but... we often then take the things that we should think of positively about ourselves and discount them. This we should not do. We are quick to praise others, but don't allow it in ourselves. (at least, this is true in those that are depressed a lot, and I know it is true in myself, at times) so, try and write out on paper or blog, at least three good things about yourself, realistic but true, for every negative thing you think of. See if you can balance it out better in your thinking. I hope this helps. The author of that book ('Feeling Good'), is not, as far as I can tell a Christian, but he has wonderful ideas of how we need to think 'truthfully' about ourselves in a more 'good' way. I am sure that this is good, because it is the truth, that we often are too hard on ourselves. True, we need to work on our weaknesses, but we should not discount our good parts. :)

By the way, there are work books on depression, from a Christian point of view, I think one called 'Overcoming Depression' and it might be found on a christian book web site. If you go to www.christianbook.com and do a search, you'll find many books there. The only one I know of that I like is 'Lord, I want to be whole' by Stormie Omartian. Though it is written by a woman, it deals with things for everyone.

but I have found that 'doing' something, working out a bit, and trying to give to God the negative thoughts I have sometimes helps. I hope that helps.

[Xavier]

Mom was placed on Effexor and had a bad reaction. Then, she got to endure the rather painful withdrawl process...

But they seem to think that's hereditary, so I was placed on Zoloft. Seems to work just fine. The change is very subtile, but the difference for me was actually being able to get out of bed in the morning and just rolling over and trying to escape reality.

[spiritmech]

Keep up on the meds. If they don't work in 6 weeks call the doctor. Sometimes they take a few weeks to really kick in. I'm on lexapro (similar to Celexa) and it's done wonders for me. I've been on them for about 5 years.

Steve

[SteveF]

Lots of people suffer from depression. Its a serious thing, not to be dismissed lightly (though some people do).

My uncle has quite severe depression (maybe 'worse' than you so this might not be appropriate) but he has a monthly injection that really helps him out. Maybe ask the Doc about this. Indeed I think the only real course of action is to consult the doctor, he/she will be the expert here. Pester them as much as you can, its your health after all

[TCapp]

My mom uses wellbutrin (or however it is spelled). I'm not on meds yet, but it will probably be soon. Depression sucks.

[Esther]

So I went to the doctor not long ago and ended up with medication to treat depression. From what I gather, many people struggle with depression? Ok, the doctor gave me (Venlafaxine HCI) EFFEXOR XR capsules, and I've been taking them daily for like three weeks, and the change is subtle, perhaps not enough? I think I'm doing a little better, but it's difficult to tell at this stage. What other options might I look into if EFFEXOR XR doesn't do it for me?

A4H, I agree with whoever said it can take several weeks to reach an effective level in your bloodstream. I know of someone who was on Effexor XR for a short time and it definitely took the edge off. Enough so that it was obvious when he missed a dose! (We'd carefully ask, "Uh ... did you ... uh ... didyoutakeyourmedicationtoday?" :eek: )You may simply need a slight adjustment in your dosage.

I have a friend on Lexapro and she says it makes a world of difference for her. My 9 year old is on Celexa and it has made a huge difference for him. He's on a low dose, if I understand the Celexa dosing correctly, and he's no longer weeping bitterly on a daily basis because everyone hates him. I've heard good things about Zoloft also. The thing is, it really depends on the person. What makes a difference for one may not do a thing for another.

If you're not noticing much of a difference, don't be afraid to press the doctor for a change, whether it's a higher dose or a different med.

[Calvinist4Him]

I've been reading all of the replies, and this is just an update of my thoughts. After doing some thinking, perhaps the medication is starting to make a difference. Before taking the medication, life dropped to a point where I had few if any days I would describe as good. I would have described most of my days as either neutral or not-good. Taking the medication is helping me to make better distinctions between a neutral and good day. Of course, I don't expect to have all good days just because I'm taking antidepressant medication, but I think the medication may take some of the edge off of a bad one, and I've had a few in the past few weeks...

Anyway, I've also been feeling slightly more energetic, and that helps me in alot of ways.

[Jimmy Higgins]

The change is very subtile, but the difference for me was actually being able to get out of bed in the morning and just rolling over and trying to escape reality.
That isn't depression. That's the mindset of every person who has to get up at 5 to 7 in the morning to get to work. They all think... 'But if I think its Saturday enough, it will become Saturday!' That's normal. :wink:

[Jimmy Higgins]

Depression is a real problem.

With that said, perhaps a lifestyle change would be more applicable to your situation. Alot of people seem to be on anti-depressants, I just wonder, how many are just down, not depressed. There is a significant difference. Take up athletics. Nothing is better for physical and psychological health than athletics. It pops off those endorphines in the brain, of which you can suffer withdrawal from if you suffer an injury. That isn't fun! But athletics such as just jogging to begin with, or yoga, or something that gets your muscles flexing, heart pumping, lungs breathing, brain thinking, has huge huge benefits both physically and psychologically.

Of course, the exercise will also make you feel better about yourself, losing pounds and whatnot. Of course, the weight loss should be gradual, and only noticable over a long period of time, ie the best weight loss method. You should also have a better diet. The body is extremely sensitive, and eating junk can only lead to bad things. Eating food rich in vitamins and minerals may make up for deficencies in the body and mind. And of course, maybe you need some better hobbies, something that gets you out and making yourself feel better about yourself.

I think way too many people suffer from feeling down, not depression. And only after making these lifestyle changes should one consider medication, because then chances are, it is an inbalance in the mind. But until you start treating your physical body better, why should the mental and spiritual body improve? And taking medication is merely just placing a band-aid over a large wound. Its not the long term solution.

[Calvinist4Him]

Depression is a real problem.

With that said, perhaps a lifestyle change would be more applicable to your situation. Alot of people seem to be on anti-depressants, I just wonder, how many are just down, not depressed. There is a significant difference. Take up athletics. Nothing is better for physical and psychological health than athletics. It pops off those endorphines in the brain, of which you can suffer withdrawal from if you suffer an injury. That isn't fun! But athletics such as just jogging to begin with, or yoga, or something that gets your muscles flexing, heart pumping, lungs breathing, brain thinking, has huge huge benefits both physically and psychologically.

Of course, the exercise will also make you feel better about yourself, losing pounds and whatnot. Of course, the weight loss should be gradual, and only noticable over a long period of time, ie the best weight loss method. You should also have a better diet. The body is extremely sensitive, and eating junk can only lead to bad things. Eating food rich in vitamins and minerals may make up for deficencies in the body and mind. And of course, maybe you need some better hobbies, something that gets you out and making yourself feel better about yourself.

I think way too many people suffer from feeling down, not depression. And only after making these lifestyle changes should one consider medication, because then chances are, it is an inbalance in the mind. But until you start treating your physical body better, why should the mental and spiritual body improve? And taking medication is merely just placing a band-aid over a large wound. Its not the long term solution.

Thank you for your input and sound advice. :thumb: In the past couple of weeks, I stopped drinking coffee (I'm now caffine free), and I have been taking baby steps in changing how I eat. I have also decided that I'm going to turn my fat into solid muscle. I'm pumping iron on nearly a daily basis. Man, leg lifts are killer on the stomach!! :lol:

[dizzle]

Good advice Jimmy. There is a world of difference between being bummed out and being medically depressed. I have had both. I thought I was "depressed" before in my past until I had a real bona fide case of clinical depression. A world of difference.

[TCapp]

I do not know if I qualify as having a biological cause of depression, although birthin' babies and being in the dark Yukon would definitely effect my body and hormones.

I think I would love to have a regular exersize routine, but I just don't think it would be practical at this point. Moving out of the Yukon into a warmer, brighter location would certainly help. Not to mention moving closer to family and friends (the isolation also bums me out no end). But what to do until then? :shrug: It might be years before I can move.

Ahh, but this thread is not about me. I'm sorry to have hijacked it.

[anthrogirl]

TCapp--

do you like to dance? ever have a dance party with your babies?

throw on some music and dance yourselves silly--kids love it (and it tires them out :wink: ), and it will raise your spirits--guaranteed!

great exercise, too...

ag

[TCapp]

That's a nice idea. ^_^

Although I might wait until after the chicken pox goes through them... ^^; don't want to tire the little guys out. :teeth:

[learning]

ahh, they got chicken pox? Take it easy on yourself TCapp.
I get down when it gets dark too, though not as far north as you. I am seriously thinking of getting one of those 'sunlight' light bulbs, that are supposed to give off light that mimics the sun and helps make one feel better, put it in the light where I like to read.

Anyways, I'm coming on here cause I just briefly was reading through a book that I found really helpful, and I feel I would be unfair to not share it. A lot of the ideas here are in this book, like exercise, etc. but there is much more, including diet and perhaps nutritional suppliments, and also some medication. Of course, if you read this book, you should follow your Doctors advice. I really think that some medication can help to 'pick one up' or 'act like glasses on the brain, help to bring reality into a better focus.'

I'ld like to share lots from this book, called 'Change Your Brain, Change Your Life' by Daniel G. Amen, M.D., but here's a summary on the back of the book of what he covers.

'To Quell Anxiety and Panic
-use simple breathing techniques to immediately calm inner turmoil

To Fight Depression:
-learn how to kill ANTs (automatic negative thoughts)

To Curb Anger
-follow the Amen (name of author) anti-anger diet and learn the nutrients that calm rage

To Conquer Impulsiveness and Learn to Focus:
-develop total focus with the 'One-Page Miracle' (about setting life goals, etc.)

To Stop Obsessive Worrying:
-follow the 'get unstuck' writing exercise and learn other problem-solving exercises'

Here's a summary of the ANTs(automatic negative thinking) page 64
1. Always/never thinking: thinking in words like always, never, no one, everyone, everytime, everything
2. Focus on the negative: seeing only the bad in a situation
3. Fortune-telling: predicting the worst possible outcome to a situation
4. Mind reading: believing that you know what others are thinking, even though they haven't told you
5. Thinking with your feelings: believing negative feelings without ever questioning them
6. Guilt beating: thinking in words like 'should, must, ought, or have to'
7. Labeling: attaching a negative label to yourself or to someone else.
8. Personalizing: investing innocuous events with personal meaning
9. Blaming: blaming someone else for your own problems.

(Here's more in the next paragraph)pg 64-65
"Your thoughts really matter. They can either help or hurt your deep limbic system. Left unchecked, ANTs will cause an infection in your whole bodily system. Whenever you notice ANTs, you need to crush them or they'll affect your relationships, your work, and your entire life. First you need to notice them. If you can catch them at the moment they occur and correct them, you take away the power they have over you. When a negative thought goes unchallenged, your mind believes it and your body reacts to it.

ANTs have an illogical logic. By bringing them into the open and examining them on a conscious level, you can see for yourself how little sense it really makes to think these kinds of things to yourself. You take back control over you own life instead of leaving your fate to hyperactive limbic-conditioned negative thought patterns."

There is more, like for each part of different parts of people's brains, some people have more or less problems, and some of this shows up on brain scans, which he shows. One child who was quite changed in his personality had a cyst in the brain, that when removed, brought the person back to normal life (the author's nephew) and some of the pictures of the harm that harmful drugs do, even cigarettes and coffee are quite alarming. ( I am cutting back on coffee because of these!)

he shows many examples, from PMS, to depression, brain trauma, to even things like violence and stalkers, the brain scans of these , and then after medication, the help that was given to them through medication and other things like diet, exercise and nutritional supplements and some bio-feedback things too. I really wonder if this shouldn't be done to many who are in prison and maybe our societies might be a lot safer!

Of course, any book like this should be followed on the advice of a Dr. but I have already been using some of the suppliments that he suggests, like St. John's wort, so I thought I might try it more regularly to see if it helps more.

[BeHereNow]

A4H-

You've been given some important advice so far in this thread. Almost everything I'd say was said by Jimmy and the book learning quoted. Lifestyle change is the most important part of warding off depression. Fast Food has a tentative link to depression, as well as similarly-designed products. Be sure to avoid that.

Let me just point out to you that Effexor is made by a company that wants you to be a lifelong consumer of their good. They make profit from you. Ideally, it would be a quick fix type of thing, a cast for your mind while it heals. But, as attested to in this thread by others, these types of drugs are addictive. So be careful with it.

Drugs like Effexor are hardly different, imo, from MDMA (ecstacy).

Effexor is a serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SRI). When your neurons release serotonin into the synapses that connect nerve cells, they remain in the synapse for a period of time and are then withdrawn into the next cell by a receptor. SRIs work by keeping the seretonin out longer. MDMA works by signaling the brain to flood nerve cells with seretonin. So the idea is the same - to make you feel good and happy.

Obviously the main difference is in volume - SRIs don't cause a flooding, they simply prevent proper flow by making chemical dams between your nerves. So they are more gradual, but generally the same idea as MDMA.

On a personal level, I couldn't take SRIs. They caused my happiness, or whatever you want to call it, to feel stale. My opinion, which is not worth anything on a professional or medical level, is that interrupting the flow of seretonin neurotransmittors weakens them by not allowing them to recharge. I think if humans were meant to have a lot of seretonin always floating about in abundance, then it would happen naturally. Maybe they need that time to recharge?

Anyway, best of fortune to you. Hopefully some of what you've read will help

[RumTumTugger]

:pray: for :a4h: and TCapp.

and good advise from you all especially Jimmy.

[Meh_Gerbil]

So I went to the doctor not long ago and ended up with medication to treat depression. From what I gather, many people struggle with depression? Ok, the doctor gave me (Venlafaxine HCI) EFFEXOR XR capsules, and I've been taking them daily for like three weeks, and the change is subtle, perhaps not enough? I think I'm doing a little better, but it's difficult to tell at this stage. What other options might I look into if EFFEXOR XR doesn't do it for me?
I tried several anti-depressants, Effexor being amoung them. I'd get *meh* results for a bit but overall I wasn't making substantive progress. I then switched my diet to mostly raw fruits and vegetables, started taking omega-3 and omega-6 supplements and in a couple of months the depression cleared up completely.

(I still have naughty food 3-4 times a week -- pizza or a sub sandwhich or chicken)

I've come to believe my depression was chemical based -- that I just wasn't getting the right foods for my brain to operate correctly. When I cut out the foods that were warring against me and substituted them with foods designed to help me, the depression, among other things, cleared up.

For breakfast I toss a couple of handfuls of spinach, ground flaxseed, a tomato and soymilk into a blender and make a 'shake'. For lunch I have salads, vegetable sandwiches, and soups. At night I typically have banana/orange/soy/blueberry shakes.

See http://www.drfuhrman.com/

I'm convinced that most health problems throughout life are the result of not giving our bodies what they need to fix the problem themselves. I'm currently off two medicines doctors thought I'd be on for life -- and I've been off for two years and feel better than I've ever felt before in my life.

[anthrogirl]

MG,

I wish I could give you all of my pearls for your post!

Here is a book that has received the endorsement of many people in the nutrution community:

Food and Mood by Elizabeth Somer:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0805062009/qid=1100919514/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/102-1794918-4741719


ag

[Sacrificial Ram]

So I went to the doctor not long ago and ended up with medication to treat depression. From what I gather, many people struggle with depression? Ok, the doctor gave me (Venlafaxine HCI) EFFEXOR XR capsules, and I've been taking them daily for like three weeks, and the change is subtle, perhaps not enough? I think I'm doing a little better, but it's difficult to tell at this stage. What other options might I look into if EFFEXOR XR doesn't do it for me?
One thing you might want to consider if this is something that has been seasonal for you. Yes, many people suffer from depression. Some people
are light sensative, and the winter months trigger depression. Many of these
are helped by the use of a lot of bright lights in the house. Don't go off the meds, but do try getting some bright lights on you during the day.

[BeHereNow]

MG,

I wish I could give you all of my pearls for your post!



Yeah, great post Mad_Gerbil. I completely agree with you, in that drastically changing my diet has had an unbelieveable effect on my mental health. So many reasons why..

[Meh_Gerbil]

Yeah, great post Mad_Gerbil. I completely agree with you, in that drastically changing my diet has had an unbelieveable effect on my mental health. So many reasons why..Not just mental health either.

I was still getting acne at 35. I thought to myself, wasn't I supposed to outgrow this garbage 15 years ago? I've heard people say acne isn't related to diet -- yeah, tell my back that. When I eat right it completely clears up and does NOT come back at all. When I break down and eat and Wendy's the next day I break out.

My dad is the one who turned me on to all of this when his PSA started getting into the "Danger Will Robinson" range. He eats only fresh fruits and vegetables (do this ONLY after you've learned how to eat vegan -- you MUST educate yourself) and his PSA dropped like a rock and is remaining steady within the 'safe' zone.

This doesn't mean a person will not get ill. We'll all die one day from something. But golly guys, I know people in their 40's who are having heart attacks these days.... did you read that... in their 40's. You aren't supposed to have that garbage until your in your 70's or later.

This has opened up a whole new world for me. I've found Indian restaurants, Middle Eastern resturants and other fun quirky places to eat where one can get delicious food that isn't gonna kill. One can learn how to eat better fast food as well.

For instance, I got a craving and went to Arby's the other day. I had a market fresh sandwich -- which is cleary SIN -- but I got only the sandwich with no fries and just water. I was filled up but cut all kinds of grease/fat/salt/calories out of my diet.

This is important as well: If you really restrict your diet then food becomes fun again. Finding new stuff to try is fun. You'll also find that over time your tastes will change. My dad can taste the difference between different kinds of bread now because he doesn't load it with the same greasy butter anymore. When you do break down and blow your diet it will be some terrible thing like getting the salad with chunks of white meat chicken instead of without. (Wow, way to lose control there...:wink: )

We get caught in this cycle where everything keeps getting dumber. I ate out with a friend a couple of months ago and for a lark I got something awful. It was a chicken breast sandwich with bacon, two types of cheese, BBQ sauce and some coating on the chicken. I bit into it and then griped the entire time. With all that 'stuff' on it I cannot taste the cheese (glad there is 2 kinds on there), I cannot taste the chicken, I could only taste the greasy bun.

There was so much garbage on that sandwich that I'm convinced what one is being sold isn't even taste but rather the appearance of taste. I've come to appreciate ice water with lemon as much as a coke, and I feel better after drinking the water instead of greasy and sluggish -- which is how I feel after drinking a coke.

If the change in diet doesn't fix the depression it will fix or prevent about a dozen other things.

[Meh_Gerbil]

MG,

I wish I could give you all of my pearls for your post!

Here is a book that has received the endorsement of many people in the nutrution community:

Food and Mood by Elizabeth Somer:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0805062009/qid=1100919514/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/102-1794918-4741719


ag
When ya think about it, meat doesn't have a great deal of flavor. How many people eat just meat without a sauce, spices, or a coating of some sort?

Well... what is in those sauces, dips, glazes, coatings and so forth?

Vegetables, fruits and grains....

[FreeBrightMind]

Seasonal Affective Disorder also known as S.A.D. effects many people. Those old xmas blues.
Light therapy has been proven effective in over 80% of diagnosed cases. NO DRUGS!
Here's a website to read about it.
http://www.nosad.org/
Happens to shift workers all year round.
Might be worth a read.

[anthrogirl]

MG,

Now I really want to give you all of my pearls! And many, many kudos to your father for going vegan. You're right, one should learn about veganism before making the switch. I have taught several classes (for community colleges, city of Portland, etc) on veganism, and I'm always suprised at how unaware many people are about diet and nutrition--also, I am suprised (although I shouldn't be by now) that many folks tend to believe that they will not enjoy a full life without animal protein.

gotta love those delicious plant foods!!!

ag

[learning]

thank you anthrogirl for that book title, and Mad Gerbil and others here.

anthrogirl, I'm thinking of getting that book (not at our Chapters-Indigo store yet) come January as I'm already over my limit for buying books up till Christmas. The new year is a good time to look into those things.:) I would still consider eating the meat that we have ourselves (we have our own beef and chickens and I'm not so worried about eating them as we know how healthy they are and what we feed them)I have found every time I take the kids and myself through the drive thru at McD's (usually once a month) I feel sick after eating there. I really think that I want to stick with only meat that we know what we have fed them. I tend to get low in iron, so afraid to go total vegan. I think that I really want to go for far more meals that are vegan, but still have meat at times. Do you know of a web site that is vegan, good recipies that would suit a family of six? The only problem I see is beans, which usually don't agree with me. I find them hard to swallow (strange, but baked beans and bananas, I almost choke on them) but I find that bananas baked, like banana bread or muffins, I love)
So, are there any recipies where beans could be eaten where one doesn't have the texture that one normally has with baked bean?

[Meh_Gerbil]

Dr. Fuhrman has a newletter and reciepes available.
You don't have to be a nut over all of this, just start making improvements 1 step at a time over a period of months or even years. As you learn of new healthy foods that satisfy you cut out something that is unhealthy.

Nobody can go cold turkey on this sort of thing.


thank you anthrogirl for that book title, and Mad Gerbil and others here.

anthrogirl, I'm thinking of getting that book (not at our Chapters-Indigo store yet) come January as I'm already over my limit for buying books up till Christmas. The new year is a good time to look into those things.:) I would still consider eating the meat that we have ourselves (we have our own beef and chickens and I'm not so worried about eating them as we know how healthy they are and what we feed them)I have found every time I take the kids and myself through the drive thru at McD's (usually once a month) I feel sick after eating there. I really think that I want to stick with only meat that we know what we have fed them. I tend to get low in iron, so afraid to go total vegan. I think that I really want to go for far more meals that are vegan, but still have meat at times. Do you know of a web site that is vegan, good recipies that would suit a family of six? The only problem I see is beans, which usually don't agree with me. I find them hard to swallow (strange, but baked beans and bananas, I almost choke on them) but I find that bananas baked, like banana bread or muffins, I love)
So, are there any recipies where beans could be eaten where one doesn't have the texture that one normally has with baked bean?

[Ice Angel]

If at any point you decide to go off your meds, don't quit cold turkey. Ask your doctor to wean you off slowly. After about 6 months I thought my depression was fine and stopped taking my Prozac after the last bottle. That was one big mistake. A few months after going cold turkey, I hit new lows that I never thought was possible. Also, if the reason for your depression is from some horrible event in your life....seek counseling. I should have done that but didn't.
I have to give applause to those of you that went and saw your doctor when you realized that you had systems of depression. I had the signs since I was in the 3rd grade but never saw a doctor until I was a junior in college. The only reason why I went to the doctor was because Semmie told me that skipping classes and stayin in bed all day wasn't a good thing.
Just remember that depression can't be cured with a wonder pill, but meds do help with events that would normally send you close to the edge.

[kaleidoscopic]

Apologist4him, I have gone beyond depressed to suicidal ( in the recent past) and have been on a number of medications for it. I am now well for the first time in my life and it had nothing to do with meds. I found that by changing my perspective on my life, focusing on the positive rather than the negative and trying to embrace the negative as a necessary balance of the positive ( ying and yang) I was able to overcome mental illness. I'm sure you've heard the phrase" it isn't what happens to you that matters so much as how you deal with it". I have found that this is true. Now instead of thinking why is this happening to me I just find a way to turn it around by learning from that feeling or experience. I know this sounds to easy to be effective but I swear it works. I think you should be wary of all drugs( even legal ones) because they all have side effects. I wish you all the luck in overcoming your depression as I'm sure you will.

[learning]

I believe this is true. From my work with the elderly, I have found that a lot of them who live a long, healthy age, have a wonderful sense of thankfulness. Some, who should have died a long time ago, (from cancer or stroke) are still living, and the answer I can see is their wonderful, gracious, thankful attitude. Things are done for them no more than for someone else. What is done for them is what is supposed to be done for them, and yet, they are always sure to thank myself or another worker for all our help. It doesn't mean they aren't able to critic something (like the food sometimes in a nursing home!) but I am amazed when they are always so kind to say 'Thank you for all you've done' when they know we get paid for helping them in any way (workers in a nursing home)

So a Thankful heart and mind, really DO make a difference.

[learning]

Hey A4H, here's a quote I read just this morning, and I wonder after reading this, about all our 'advice' so I'll just quote this, and let you know 'It's OK to feel whatever you are feeling. Feelings aren't stupid, they just are.' (a good friend said that to me once)

from book 'I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better'
by Gary and Joy Lundberg

"There is a philosophy called Positive Mental Attitude...while this may be appropriate at a certain point, we each need to get there in our own time.
...
"While there is an inherent desire and need directing each of us to the bright side of our own life, there is also the need to be able to acknowledge our own feelings before we can see the bright side, and to know it is permissable to feel what we are feeling. Once we deal with the emotion, then we are ready to go forward with a more positive attitude."
(page 9-10)