Is the Church engaged in "Nationalistic Idolatry?"

[Spiritus Naturae]

Thought I'd share this with everyone.

"Summary:
The tragedies of 11 September 2001 are grievous not only for the lives taken by terrorists, but also because their aftermath has powerfully revealed that we, the Church in the United States, have prostrated ourselves before the idol of our nation. Thus, it is with great sadness that the endorsers of this document humbly plead with our churches to join us in repentance, turning from the United States' twisted notions of liberty, democracy and justice, from the historical misconceptions of its "Christian heritage" and from the ubiquitous greed that drives our nation. Jesus is calling his people in the United States today to grieve the sins of our nation, to return to our first love, and to once again recognize him alone as our King and the provider of our security.

1. When our Lord and Master, Jesus Christ said, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand," he called us to become citizens of His Kingdom.

2. This Kingdom to which we are called cannot properly be understood as equivalent to any worldly kingdom (nation or empire) -- cf., Jn 18:36, Lk 17:20-21.

3. Thus, the United States of America is not the Kingdom of God, nor did it ever have any special place -- as a nation -- in that Kingdom.

4. Furthermore, the United States, despite the manifold references to "God" in its defining documents, never recognizes Jesus as part of the Godhead it proclaims.

5. Despite its thoroughly religious character, the United States also never makes any pretension of allegiance to Jesus and to his will for establishing a kingdom here on Earth (Mt 6:10). "

View the theses in their entirety here: http://www.kingdomnow.org/95Theses.html

Do we all get a bit too wrapped up in political idealogies and Nationalistic pride? Do we forget to recognize Christ first and foremost before even the United States, as wonderful as she may be?

Something to ponder...

I'm not sure if I posted in the proper place. This could have gone in Political Science too I suppose. :huh:

[Amazing Rando]

Hey SN, interesting find! :smile:


Do we all get a bit too wrapped up in political idealogies and Nationalistic pride?

Do we forget to recognize Christ first and foremost before even the United States, as wonderful as she may be?

Here's an emphatic YES! I believe that is the case for many people.

[Spiritus Naturae]

Hey SN, interesting find! :smile:



Here's an emphatic YES! I believe that is the case for many people.

Yeah, I think it is important for us as Christians to keep it in perspective, so to speak. Keep our eyes and hearts on the Kingdom and bringing more people into that Kingdom, with the Saviour's help. Politics, Schmolitics! :shifty:

I'm with Jaltus...I hate politics. :uneasy:

[Sheepdog]

probably true in some cases, but in general no. most Christians from what i can tell are more moderate and recognize that the Kingdom of Heaven is more ethereal than any geographic limited, political country. though that doesn't mean we can't participate in politics, i think a lot of us couldn't care less if a 50 foot tall monolith of the 10 Commandments was placed on the lawn at Captial Hill.

the problem is that the real conservative Christians, the so-called "religious right," keep speaking as though they represent all of us... they don't. then they try to shame us for not being as enthusiastic as they are over the US being Kingdom Come.

[CatholicSage]

I agree completely. Too many Americans confuse Christianity with America's self-created mythology ("city on a hill" and all that). They confuse the traditions of rugged individualism with Christian virtues and sing "God Bless America" too often in church, among other errors.

[Solly]

Hi SN; that's a good document; I saw it earlier this year, but as it was American oriented, didn't make a fuss over it.

[maudman]

To many Christians have substituted the freedoms of truth for the freedoms of Demacracy. Demacracy is just as much the abscence of God and to those who have little faith it can often lead astray from the truth.

The truth no longer sets many free. Instead they find themselves in bondage to the vices they are free to explore. Patriotism no matter how You look at it is a form of worship. I respect and adhere to the laws of the land and it is for our bennifit to do so. But I can't relate to those who put worldly leadership on a pedistal to idealize. I have a real Problems with this behavior. I think in the end fear warps any common sence and those whose don't put their Faith in God for peace and Saftey are going to lose it.

[Spiritus Naturae]

I have been doing alot of reading on this lately. It seems that some 'patriots' can and do put way too much emphasis on a certain 'National' dispostion. "God bless us, God smite you" kind of mentality. We cannot serve two masters, can we? We either serve Christ or we serve the 'nation'. True or false?

Some links of interest as well: The Ekklesia Project ( http://www.ekklesiaproject.org/about/index.php?article=54)
William Cavanaugh's "Modern Theology" article (http://www.jesusradicals.com/library/cavanaugh/telephone.pdf)

[James Peter]

From my reasonably wide travels in the US I'd say that yes its true and something which is hard to notice if you're not an outsider. I know it took me a couple of hours of heated debate to persuade one of my hosts the last time I was over there that America was guilty of pride and self-idolatory. I'm not saying that every christian in the US is guilty of it and as an outsider anything I say is going to seem like anti-americanism but hey. Your culture practically brainwashes people to have a warped perception of the world and your country. Break free and live in truth. Your nation is in the prayers of the world.

[Tfbandie]

Thought I'd share this with everyone.

"Summary:
The tragedies of 11 September 2001 are grievous not only for the lives taken by terrorists, but also because their aftermath has powerfully revealed that we, the Church in the United States, have prostrated ourselves before the idol of our nation. Thus, it is with great sadness that the endorsers of this document humbly plead with our churches to join us in repentance, turning from the United States' twisted notions of liberty, democracy and justice, from the historical misconceptions of its "Christian heritage" and from the ubiquitous greed that drives our nation. Jesus is calling his people in the United States today to grieve the sins of our nation, to return to our first love, and to once again recognize him alone as our King and the provider of our security.

1. When our Lord and Master, Jesus Christ said, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand," he called us to become citizens of His Kingdom.

2. This Kingdom to which we are called cannot properly be understood as equivalent to any worldly kingdom (nation or empire) -- cf., Jn 18:36, Lk 17:20-21.

3. Thus, the United States of America is not the Kingdom of God, nor did it ever have any special place -- as a nation -- in that Kingdom.

4. Furthermore, the United States, despite the manifold references to "God" in its defining documents, never recognizes Jesus as part of the Godhead it proclaims.

5. Despite its thoroughly religious character, the United States also never makes any pretension of allegiance to Jesus and to his will for establishing a kingdom here on Earth (Mt 6:10). "

View the theses in their entirety here: http://www.kingdomnow.org/95Theses.html

Do we all get a bit too wrapped up in political idealogies and Nationalistic pride? Do we forget to recognize Christ first and foremost before even the United States, as wonderful as she may be?

Something to ponder...

I'm not sure if I posted in the proper place. This could have gone in Political Science too I suppose. :huh:

Good stuff, and something I've been thinking about for a few years. It really came to forfront in my thinking in october, when my roommate's mother, who is a presbyterian minister, was nearly kicked out of her church for refusing to display an American Flag outside. Her reasoning, and a reasoning that I agree with, is that the church does not belong to any nation, and only the kingdom of God, and that America is not uniquely picked by God to be his kingdom on earth, and that if members wished to display American flag, theyw ould also have to display flags of every other nation. Which brought up some questions for me

Is it okay for churches to display American Flags?
Is it okay for churches not to display American Flags?