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37818
11-05-2014, 12:14 PM
The question excludes Ephesians 4:27; Acts 5:3. Which is generally agreed upon as possible.

The principle reason I personally do not believe a genuine Christian can be demonized is based on 1 John 4:1, 4.

Sparko
11-05-2014, 12:26 PM
When you say "demonized" I assume you mean "possessed"?

Adrift
11-05-2014, 12:41 PM
The question excludes Ephesians 4:27; Acts 5:3. Which is generally agreed upon as possible.

The principle reason I personally do not believe a genuine Christian can be demonized is based on 1 John 4:1, 4.

Do you mean demonized as in possessed or as in oppressed? Also, I'm not sure I agree that 1 John 4 has spiritual possession or oppression in mind exactly. Seems to me more about false prophets (who, I grant, may or may not be possessed/oppressed).

Also, you didn't leave any room in your poll for maybe/I don't know.

Leonhard
11-05-2014, 12:44 PM
I concur with people, do you mean that people become possessed even though they're Christians, or do you mean that they lose their faith?

As a Catholic I only believe that Christians can be properly called saved if and when they die in a state of grace, and go to Purgatory or Heaven depending on their state of penance at the time of death.

One Bad Pig
11-05-2014, 01:34 PM
The question excludes Ephesians 4:27; Acts 5:3. Which is generally agreed upon as possible.

The principle reason I personally do not believe a genuine Christian can be demonized is based on 1 John 4:1, 4.
What do Eph. 4:27 and 1 John 4:1 have to do with demon possession? I am assuming that's what you meant.

I would also need an "other" option: a being saved person can turn away from Christ (and thus would no longer be being saved). I do not believe that a being saved person can be demon possessed.

Cow Poke
11-05-2014, 01:44 PM
Yeah!

37818
11-05-2014, 01:59 PM
When you say "demonized" I assume you mean "possessed"?The Handbook of Spiritual Warfare by Dr Ed Murphy, teaches that the Greek word translated "demon possessed" is a mistranslation, and should be translated demonized. Dr Ed Murphy teaches that Christians can be demonized. I believe he is wrong. The book is published by Thomas Nelson Publishers. Thought the book is also (with different pages numbers, no page index or verse index) available elsewhere as a PDF as a free download.

The Greek word Harp for an example with the same Greek ending is translated "play the harp" as "demon possessed."

Dr Murphy teaches Christians can be demonized but not demon possessed. Based on his arguement from the Greek, then, no body is ever demon possessed. So I do have a problem with his view. Also other issues too.

Cow Poke
11-05-2014, 02:00 PM
What a hodgepodge of poll options! :huh:

seanD
11-05-2014, 02:25 PM
I don't think possessed is necessary when they can be influenced and deceived just as effectively.

Littlejoe
11-05-2014, 02:35 PM
My wife when she was in College was "trained" in a spiritual warfare that included issues such as this. She had sessions with several people she knew to be Christian that would qualify as "Demonized". They were not possessed like what most would normally consider as demon possessed (weird voices, levitating, that kind of stuff that is considered to be normal proof of possession). But some of those sessions were pretty scary according to her...

Obsidian
11-05-2014, 05:33 PM
I said "I don't know," but I lean toward "Yes."

37818
11-06-2014, 09:02 AM
Do you mean demonized as in possessed or as in oppressed? Also, I'm not sure I agree that 1 John 4 has spiritual possession or oppression in mind exactly. Seems to me more about false prophets (who, I grant, may or may not be possessed/oppressed).

Also, you didn't leave any room in your poll for maybe/I don't know.The Dr Murphy holds that a Christian cannot be possessed. But can be demonized (oppressed). So either understanding can be met. Dr Murphy holds all the passages translated "possession" are mistranslated, and should be translated "demonized." My no means a Christian cannot be demonized/possessed.

Adrift
11-06-2014, 09:32 AM
The Dr Murphy holds that a Christian cannot be possessed. But can be demonized (oppressed). So either understanding can be met. Dr Murphy holds all the passages translated "possession" are mistranslated, and should be translated "demonized." My no means a Christian cannot be demonized/possessed.

I would probably agree with Dr. Murphy then. I believe that Christians can be oppressed (demonized), but not possessed. Well, I hold that view currently, but I'm willing to reconsider it. I don't know if I agree with Dr. Murphy that all of the passages translated "possession" are mistranslated though. I would need to know his qualifications for making that claim, and then I'd need to see if there's general agreement among scholars on the claim.

So, anyways, if I had to lay my money down on one of your poll options, it would probably be "Yes. Also a saved person once saved cannot become lost." But I'm still struggling to figure out the connection between demonic possession/oppression and the durability of one's salvation.

37818
11-06-2014, 12:07 PM
What do Eph. 4:27 and 1 John 4:1 have to do with demon possession? I am assuming that's what you meant.

I would also need an "other" option: a being saved person can turn away from Christ (and thus would no longer be being saved). I do not believe that a being saved person can be demon possessed.

I used the term "demonized" instead of "possession" or "oppression." Ephesians 4:27 does not in my view have anything to do with either. As for 1 John 4:1, refers to demons, that all. 1 John 4:4 in my view means a Christian cannot be "demonized."

37818
11-06-2014, 12:15 PM
I concur with people, do you mean that people become possessed even though they're Christians, or do you mean that they lose their faith?

As a Catholic I only believe that Christians can be properly called saved if and when they die in a state of grace, and go to Purgatory or Heaven depending on their state of penance at the time of death.

There are Christians who believe a Christian can be "demon possessed." I do not. As a Christian I believe salvation is a present possession (1 John 5:12; Ephesians 2:5, 8). The author of the book, Handbook of Spiritual Warfare, Dr Ed Murphy believes Christians can be demonized, his words. And the Bible texts translated "demon possession" are mistranslated. His view they should be translated "demonized."

Sparko
11-06-2014, 12:19 PM
There are Christians who believe a Christian can be "demon possessed." I do not. As I Christian I believe salvation is a present possession (1 John 5:12; Ephesians 2:5, 8). The author of the book, Handbook of Spiritual Warfare, Dr Ed Murphy believes Christians can be demonized, his words. And the Bible texts translated "demon possession" are mistranslated. His view they should be translated "demonized."

well "demonized" in English usually means to make someone or their actions to look evil as in "Obama keeps demonizing Bush"

Leonhard
11-06-2014, 12:40 PM
There are Christians who believe a Christian can be "demon possessed." I do not. As a Christian I believe salvation is a present possession (1 John 5:12; Ephesians 2:5, 8). The author of the book, Handbook of Spiritual Warfare, Dr Ed Murphy believes Christians can be demonized, his words. And the Bible texts translated "demon possession" are mistranslated. His view they should be translated "demonized."

I won't start a discussion about the nature and requirement of salvation. Suffice it to say I was clarifying my position as the OP was formulated in an ambiguous way, which has been pointed out by several people now.

Furthermore I do believe its possible for Christians to become possessed as well, though depending on the person and the circumstances this might be judged to be more or less improbable. As for demons torturing people, the Saints and the mystics have reported that occuring for centuries and I see no particular reason to doubt what they say. Several Christians I know, even some on this forum, have experienced demonic attacks.

They're supernatural beings of incredible power (though perhaps kept in check by something), and unimaginable intellect and a pure hatred of God and anything remotely similar to God. If anything I think demons would be more busy attacking Christians and in particular Catholics, (if they can) than with non-Christians.

Adrift
11-06-2014, 01:19 PM
I won't start a discussion about the nature and requirement of salvation. Suffice it to say I was clarifying my position as the OP was formulated in an ambiguous way, which has been pointed out by several people now.

Furthermore I do believe its possible for Christians to become possessed as well, though depending on the person and the circumstances this might be judged to be more or less improbable. As for demons torturing people, the Saints and the mystics have reported that occuring for centuries and I see no particular reason to doubt what they say. Several Christians I know, even some on this forum, have experienced demonic attacks.

They're supernatural beings of incredible power (though perhaps kept in check by something), and unimaginable intellect and a pure hatred of God and anything remotely similar to God. If anything I think demons would be more busy attacking Christians and in particular Catholics, (if they can) than with non-Christians.

Curious, why in particular Catholics?

One Bad Pig
11-06-2014, 01:54 PM
There are Christians who believe a Christian can be "demon possessed." I do not. As a Christian I believe salvation is a present possession (1 John 5:12; Ephesians 2:5, 8). The author of the book, Handbook of Spiritual Warfare, Dr Ed Murphy believes Christians can be demonized, his words. And the Bible texts translated "demon possession" are mistranslated. His view they should be translated "demonized."
If you have to make up a new meaning for a word, then you're not translating it correctly. Why should I place any stock in what Dr. Murphy says?

37818
11-06-2014, 01:57 PM
My wife when she was in College was "trained" in a spiritual warfare that included issues such as this. She had sessions with several people she knew to be Christian that would qualify as "Demonized". They were not possessed like what most would normally consider as demon possessed (weird voices, levitating, that kind of stuff that is considered to be normal proof of possession). But some of those sessions were pretty scary according to her...How would you characterize the difference between a sincere professing nominal Christian and a genuine Christian?

Jesus said to Saul, ". . . To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in Me." (Acts 26:18.)

From this I personally conclude non-Christians and nominal Christians regardless of sect or cult, are under the oppression of Satan and can be demonized. The difference between doing something (baptism, verbal confession, sinners prary, giving one's life, etc) in order to be saved and receiving Christ (John 1:12, 13; John 3:16; 1 John 5:1, 12; Romans 8:9; 2 Corinthians 13:5).

Leonhard
11-06-2014, 03:38 PM
Curious, why in particular Catholics?

I'm a Catholic, we consider the Catholic Church to be The Church. I don't think there's anything Satan hates more on earth than The Church. Christian brothers and sisters outside of the Church, who have been baptised, are contrite over their sins are probably also somewhat of a target for demons. I was just preempting someone pointing out the prevelancy of demonic possessions among Catholics.

Not that many protestants don't often seek out the help of Catholic exorcists.

HeteroDoxic
11-06-2014, 04:10 PM
Moderator's note: This section is for orthodox Christians only.

37818
11-06-2014, 05:00 PM
You'd have to tell me what you think those verses say, because I'm pretty sure we aren't going to agree..... :)

Ephesians 4:27, ". . . Neither give place to the devil. . . . " Which as Christian we are to no longer to do. This is not the same as being "demonized." It is still not to be done. Being demonized is beyond merely giving the devil a place in one's life. And it is my view, that genuine Christians cannot be demonized. So explain how you disagree with the mere meaning of "give the devil place?"

Acts 5:3, ". . . But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie . . . ?" Do you know the answer to Peter's question? The answer is not that of being "demonized." But arguably Ananias did give the devil place in some way. Do you disagree with that? Please give your view.

1 John 4:1, "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: . . ." Do you deny spirits which are not of God are demons?
1 John 4:4, ". . . Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world." Being of God is to have over come "them" the spirits which are not of God. And because we have the Holy Spirit within us, which is Christ in us, who is God, who is greater than the world. Out of which we have been saved. Do you really disagree with this?

Your comments are very welcome, BTW.

37818
11-06-2014, 05:12 PM
What a hodgepodge of poll options! :huh:The poll had two things I wanted to compare. Those who believe Christians can be demonized/possessed/oppressed. And how generally between the two groups of believers regarding "once saved always saved" and that those who believe one who is save, if not careful can again be among the lost.

That being said, how would you have made the list of questions, or worded them differently? Thanks.

Cow Poke
11-06-2014, 05:22 PM
The poll had two things I wanted to compare. Those who believe Christians can be demonized/possessed/oppressed. And how generally between the two groups of believers regarding "once saved always saved" and that those who believe one who is save, if not careful can again be among the lost.

That being said, how would you have made the list of questions, or worded them differently? Thanks.

Lemme think about that --- just took a quick break from our Jobs for Life class, and I'm teaching! :smile:

Littlejoe
11-06-2014, 05:56 PM
How would you characterize the difference between a sincere professing nominal Christian and a genuine Christian?

Jesus said to Saul, ". . . To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in Me." (Acts 26:18.)

From this I personally conclude non-Christians and nominal Christians regardless of sect or cult, are under the oppression of Satan and can be demonized. The difference between doing something (baptism, verbal confession, sinners prary, giving one's life, etc) in order to be saved and receiving Christ (John 1:12, 13; John 3:16; 1 John 5:1, 12; Romans 8:9; 2 Corinthians 13:5).

Well, she would say that this distinction doesn't matter IHO. I don't have permissions to share much detail due to confidentiality reasons, but I have permission to share that one of them was an employed, ordained, Baptist Youth minister. Her firm belief due to her personal knowledge of this person, she would tell you they were definitely on fire for God, and had a personal relationship with Jesus.

37818
11-06-2014, 06:46 PM
If you have to make up a new meaning for a word, then you're not translating it correctly. Why should I place any stock in what Dr. Murphy says?

The Greek for "possessed with a devil" is δαιμονιζομενον

The Greek for "play a harp" is κιθαριζομενον

One is not "possessed with a harp." It is more an interpretation than the meaning of "possessed" as apply being "demonized." Or "harpized" to really make up a word. This needs further study on my part. Strong's dictionary translates δαιμονιζομενον to be exercised by a daemon. And translates κιθαριζομενον to play on a lyre.

37818
11-06-2014, 07:00 PM
Well, she would say that this distinction doesn't matter IHO. I don't have permissions to share much detail due to confidentiality reasons, but I have permission to share that one of them was an employed, ordained, Baptist Youth minister. Her firm belief due to her personal knowledge of this person, she would tell you they were definitely on fire for God, and had a personal relationship with Jesus.As to my question, any kind of personal information is outside of what I had requested.

I make the distinction between trusting in one's works, baptism, confession with the mouth, saying a pray which BTW are perfectly fine works of faith in and of themselves. But the difference being trusting in the finished work of Christ alone through faith alone, and not in one's actions to receive Christ, such as making Jesus Lord of one's life, surrendering one's life to Christ, giving one's life to Christ and so forth. The latter are extra biblical practices. In short trusting in the finished work of Christ as opposed to trusting in one's actions to receive Christ. Making curtain actions requirements. That is what I was asking.

Obsidian
11-06-2014, 07:59 PM
Three people who were arguably saved, yet demonized, include 1) Balaam, 2) King Saul, and 3) Simon Magus. Notably, they all participated in witchcraft.

And here is a passage that seems to indicate that a large number of believers were also engaged in witchcraft:

Acts 19:18-19
And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds. Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.

Littlejoe
11-06-2014, 07:59 PM
As to my question, any kind of personal information is outside of what I had requested.

I make the distinction between trusting in one's works, baptism, confession with the mouth, saying a pray which BTW are perfectly fine works of faith in and of themselves. But the difference being trusting in the finished work of Christ alone through faith alone, and not in one's actions to receive Christ, such as making Jesus Lord of one's life, surrendering one's life to Christ, giving one's life to Christ and so forth. The latter are extra biblical practices. In short trusting in the finished work of Christ as opposed to trusting in one's actions to receive Christ. Making curtain actions requirements. That is what I was asking.
Sounds a bit like the "No True Scotsman Fallacy" to me.

Obsidian
11-06-2014, 08:04 PM
Here are a couple other, possible examples of Christians becoming oppressed by devils. However, I don't know that you would call it "possession":

Matthew 18:32-35
Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

1 Corinthians 5:3-5
For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, to deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

37818
11-06-2014, 08:42 PM
Here are a couple other, possible examples of Christians becoming oppressed by devils. However, I don't know that you would call it "possession":

Matthew 18:32-35
Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.What has this matter of Law to do with your point?


1 Corinthians 5:3-5
For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, to deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.Yes, this understanding is pretty standard for this passage. I may be alone on this, nevertheless, just because this man is in attendance in the congregation does not mean that man was saved. And turning over the man to Satan for the destruction of his flesh is not in of itself going cause him to be saved. And that is not the same as "demonization." Salvation is still by grace through faith alone. The word translated "may be saved" is the very word translated, "might be saved" in John 3:17.

Anyway, thank you. If you have more to comment on these two references, please do.

Obsidian
11-06-2014, 08:46 PM
What has this matter of Law to do with your point?

It probably means that Christians will be tormented by devils if they are unforgiving.

37818
11-06-2014, 08:59 PM
It probably means that Christians will be tormented by devils if they are unforgiving.OK. Given that understanding. I have always understood the man taken to the tormentors to be a lost person, not a Christian. Also it is my understanding, under the Law one must forgive to be forgiven and under grace we forgive because we are forgiven. ". . . forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you." -- Ephesians 4:32.

37818
11-06-2014, 09:01 PM
Here is the link about the author and the book.

http://www.thomasnelson.com/the-handbook-for-spiritual-warfare

Adrift
11-06-2014, 09:09 PM
I'm a Catholic, we consider the Catholic Church to be The Church. I don't think there's anything Satan hates more on earth than The Church. Christian brothers and sisters outside of the Church, who have been baptised, are contrite over their sins are probably also somewhat of a target for demons. I was just preempting someone pointing out the prevelancy of demonic possessions among Catholics.

Not that many protestants don't often seek out the help of Catholic exorcists.

Hmm. I always assumed that the concept of demonic possession was more prevalent in Protestant Christianity. The only time I've ever heard a Catholic talk about demons or demonic possession was in movies, but then again, I guess I don't really hang out with a whole lot of Catholics anymore.

Adrift
11-06-2014, 09:14 PM
And it is my view, that genuine Christians cannot be demonized.

Wait... I'm confused. Earlier when you were asked if by "demonized" you meant "possessed" or "oppressed", you said "Dr Murphy holds that a Christian cannot be possessed. But can be demonized (oppressed)."

So when you say that "it is my view, that genuine Christians cannot be demonized.", do you mean to say that you don't believe Christians can be possessed OR oppressed? Or only that Christians can't be oppressed, but that they CAN be possessed?

Adrift
11-06-2014, 09:16 PM
Well, she would say that this distinction doesn't matter IHO. I don't have permissions to share much detail due to confidentiality reasons, but I have permission to share that one of them was an employed, ordained, Baptist Youth minister. Her firm belief due to her personal knowledge of this person, she would tell you they were definitely on fire for God, and had a personal relationship with Jesus.

What does IHO mean?

Adrift
11-06-2014, 09:26 PM
The Greek for "possessed with a devil" is δαιμονιζομενον

The Greek for "play a harp" is κιθαριζομενον

One is not "possessed with a harp." It is more an interpretation than the meaning of "possessed" as apply being "demonized." Or "harpized" to really make up a word. This needs further study on my part. Strong's dictionary translates δαιμονιζομενον to be exercised by a daemon. And translates κιθαριζομενον to play on a lyre.

Using the root of a word to figure out the meaning of a word as its used by a particular Biblical author isn't always going to work out. Just like in English, words in ancient Biblical languages often evolved, or had only the vaguest connections to their roots. For instance, a butterfly really has nothing to do with flying butter. Michael S. Heiser devotes a whole podcast to bad Bible word study techniques, and this is one he hammers on pretty hard. He hasn't updated it in quite a while, but if you're interested, check out his The Naked Bible Podcast, especially the last 4 episodes or so.

Adrift
11-06-2014, 09:28 PM
Three people who were arguably saved, yet demonized, include 1) Balaam, 2) King Saul, and 3) Simon Magus. Notably, they all participated in witchcraft.

And here is a passage that seems to indicate that a large number of believers were also engaged in witchcraft:

Acts 19:18-19
And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds. Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.

What makes you think that Balaam or Simon Magus are arguably saved?

Obsidian
11-06-2014, 09:29 PM
So when you say that "it is my view, that genuine Christians cannot be demonized.", do you mean to say that you don't believe Christians can be possessed OR oppressed?

That's what his view implies, which is why I think it is wrong. As far as I can tell, the Bible does not clearly distinguish between oppression and possession.

Obsidian
11-06-2014, 09:35 PM
Acts 8:13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

Admittedly I don't think it specifically says that Simon Magus continued his sorcery after he believed.

Balaam prophecied about Christ. But in retrospect, he is a bad example because I don't think the Bible says anything about him being involved with demons.

Adrift
11-06-2014, 10:27 PM
Acts 8:13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

Admittedly I don't think it specifically says that Simon Magus continued his sorcery after he believed.

Balaam prophecied about Christ. But in retrospect, he is a bad example because I don't think the Bible says anything about him being involved with demons.

Okay, I guess I see where you're coming from.

Yes, Acts 8:13 says that Simon believed also, and was baptized, but he still seemed to be extremely confused about the operation of the Holy Spirit, so it makes me wonder what exactly he believed about the Gospel. I mean, even the demons believe, but that doesn't make them saved (though one would think the act of Baptism would be a declaration of saving faith...).

Later we see Simon offering money to the Apostles to be taught how to lay hands on people so that they may receive the Holy Spirit.

Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! 21 You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. 23 For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.”

24 Then Simon answered, “Pray to the Lord for me so that nothing you have said may happen to me.”

But we don't know from the scriptural record if Simon ever sincerely repented. If the early (2nd century) Church Fathers are anything to go by, he didn't. Also, there was a second century Gnostic sect called the Simonians, who claimed that Simon Magus was their founder. Some also believe that Marcion was a follower of Simon.

Littlejoe
11-07-2014, 06:14 AM
What does IHO mean?

Since I'm relating my wife's experience, that meant - In Her Opinion.

Adrift
11-07-2014, 06:17 AM
Since I'm relating my wife's experience, that meant - In Her Opinion.

Ohhh. Got it. I thought I was done with acronyms when I got out of the military. Then text talking came into fashion. Sigh. :smile:

One Bad Pig
11-07-2014, 06:39 AM
Using the root of a word to figure out the meaning of a word as its used by a particular Biblical author isn't always going to work out. Just like in English, words in ancient Biblical languages often evolved, or had only the vaguest connections to their roots. For instance, a butterfly really has nothing to do with flying butter. Michael S. Heiser devotes a whole podcast to bad Bible word study techniques, and this is one he hammers on pretty hard. He hasn't updated it in quite a while, but if you're interested, check out his The Naked Bible Podcast, especially the last 4 episodes or so.
Yep. Words need to be studied in context to determine what they mean. Its seems fairly evident that, in demon possession, the demon 'plays' the human like a human 'plays' a harp.

phat8594
11-07-2014, 12:34 PM
My wife when she was in College was "trained" in a spiritual warfare that included issues such as this. She had sessions with several people she knew to be Christian that would qualify as "Demonized". They were not possessed like what most would normally consider as demon possessed (weird voices, levitating, that kind of stuff that is considered to be normal proof of possession). But some of those sessions were pretty scary according to her...

Yep -- my wife and I have had experiences like this too. Pretty crazy really...

HeteroDoxic
11-07-2014, 04:24 PM
moderator's note: This section is for orthodox christians only.

show me i am not orthodox.> what have i said that is not meeting a reasonable definition of orthodox.

Why do you make bold accusations you can not prove???

Why do you libel????

Is it a rule i accept lies and libel to be a good standing user???