Questions about Adam and Eve

[bhukkadakota]

Adam and eve were the first people created in gods image
but they were not the FIRST people
and it says this in the bible
their decendents goes down to abraham who all jews are descended from
original sin is passed down to each generation through birth
so why would anyone else except jews have the original sin?
and i presume adam and eve were homo sapiens because there descendents are.
homo sapiens have been around for 50 000 years
adam lived to 900 and something years old
can somebody tell me when at ANY time ANY living creature could live even CLOSE to that long.

[InquisitorKind]

Today @ 02:52 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=90751#post90751)
bhukkadakota:

so why would anyone else except jews have the original sin?
If original sin is described accurately in the Bible, I believe all people exhibit signs rather obvious signs of it.

homo sapiens have been around for 50 000 years
This is debatable. If they were, I'd like to see the intermittent fossil record, which should be easy to find.

adam lived to 900 and something years old
can somebody tell me when at ANY time ANY living creature could live even CLOSE to that long.
There are theories that pre-flood radiation levels were a lot less than they were after flood, which allowed humans to live much longer life spans, but this is only third-hand information at best. I hope Socrates (or someone else knowledged) jumps on this thread and fills in the gaps or corrects me.

~Matt

[bhukkadakota]

homo sapiens have not been around for 50 000 years
i made that bit up
i dont know for sure but ive heard they've been around maybe for 200,000 years as they co existed with homo erectus.
ive heard from many christians that adam and eve were around only 6000 years ago.
IF this is true
then the chinese and koreans have recorded history during the time adam and eve were supposedly alive.
if there was such a great flood that wiped out human existance except for noah and his ark, why wouldnt their civilizations been wiped out?

[FirstSunday33ad]

05-08-2003 @ 02:52 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=90751#post90751)
bhukkadakota:

Adam and eve were the first people created in gods image
but they were not the FIRST people
and it says this in the bible
their decendents goes down to abraham who all jews are descended from
original sin is passed down to each generation through birth
so why would anyone else except jews have the original sin?
and i presume adam and eve were homo sapiens because there descendents are.
homo sapiens have been around for 50 000 years
adam lived to 900 and something years old
can somebody tell me when at ANY time ANY living creature could live even CLOSE to that long.

Adam and Eve were the first people, THAT is what it says in the Bible. There were no "others" before A&E.

As to the ages of Adam and his descendents, if you interpret the passage literally all you are disputing is the possibility of people living 8 or 9 centuries. Given that the earth was only recently under a curse and would still be very close to "perfect" as would be the people at that time, it is not a stretch to imagine that a creation of God, living in a near perfect environment, could survive that long.

However, if you interpret the passage as not meaning years (ie 365 days) but simply a unit of time measurement then it is possible that the "Years" were something else - such as "months". In other words, Adams life span was measured against the number of full moons that occurred in his lifetime. That would mean that Adam really lived 77 years 6 months.

Just a thought.

[Jimmy Higgins]

05-08-2003 @ 09:34 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=90942#post90942)
InquisitorKind:
There are theories that pre-flood radiation levels were a lot less than they were after flood, which allowed humans to live much longer life spans, but this is only third-hand information at best. I hope Socrates (or someone else knowledged) jumps on this thread and fills in the gaps or corrects me.No such studies have been conducted to determine if radiation levels would have such an effect, nor do YEC'ers have any sort of model to say what the radiation levels were.

[Socrates]

05-14-2003 @ 02:42 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=95286#post95286)
FirstSunday33ad:

Adam and Eve were the first people, THAT is what it says in the Bible. There were no "others" before A&E.

Completely right, and no others at the same time either. Adam was the FIRST man (1 Cor. 15:45) and Eve was named because she would be the "mother of all living" (Gen. 3:20).

As to the ages of Adam and his descendents, if you interpret the passage literally all you are disputing is the possibility of people living 8 or 9 centuries. Given that the earth was only recently under a curse and would still be very close to "perfect" as would be the people at that time, it is not a stretch to imagine that a creation of God, living in a near perfect environment, could survive that long.

The reason for the long life spans was more of a genetic effect, since there was not the current genetic load. And during the population bottlenecks of the Flood and Babel, some longevity genes would have been lost by genetic drift. This explains the sharp drops in lifespans at those events (see Shem and Peleg).

This is explained further in Living for 900 years? (http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/4082.asp)

However, if you interpret the passage as not meaning years (ie 365 days) but simply a unit of time measurement then it is possible that the "Years" were something else - such as "months". In other words, Adams life span was measured against the number of full moons that occurred in his lifetime. That would mean that Adam really lived 77 years 6 months.

Just a thought.

But here's another one -- don't just consider the age at death, but the age at fatherhood as well -- Enosh becoming a father at 7 1/2 years seems to be even more of a problem.

No, there is not the slightest lexical evidence that years were equated to months.

[Omega Red]

05-22-2003 @ 07:21 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=104019#post104019)
Socrates:

The reason for the long life spans was more of a genetic effect, since there was not the current genetic load. And during the population bottlenecks of the Flood and Babel, some longevity genes would have been lost by genetic drift. This explains the sharp drops in lifespans at those events.



Longevity genes??? I've got a limited understanding that apotosis is encoded into each cell and is trigged by a number of external (excitotoxins, oxidative stress, stimuli) and internal (toxic byproducts from cell metabolism) causes. What indications are there today of longevity genes?

[Adamtoo]

I have a problem with this concept of the fall of man and original sin. I have read the story in Genesis many times. It says nothing about any fall. I may be wrong but I think this doctrine actually separates us from a relationship with God, instead of confirming our relationship with Him who is our Father. We must remember that God was Adam and Eve's Father. What kind of a Father would disown his children, just for making one mistake? When any one of you makes a mistake, does your dad or mom kick you out of the family? No! Of course not. They might punish you, but rarely, if ever, do they actually kick you out of the family. Well, God is even better than your mom or dad! So why would people over the years interpret this story to say that we fell out of grace? It does not compute with me! God is our Father and He loves us more than we can ever imagine or comprehend! Even as God ushered them out of the garden, He made clothes for them. He did not stop speaking to them. He did not stop dealing with them. Did He not spend time, even with the son of Adam who killed His brother. It is interesting to me, that God spent more time with the problem child than the good one. Because He cared.

Adam and Eve represent the infancy of the human race. The Bible is the history of God's relationship with mankind. I believe God is growing up the human race to become mature adults, who are in relationship with their real Father. Sure Adam and Eve made a bad choice; and their Father punished them for it. But nowhere do I see Him withholding His love for them, or failing to be involved in their lives. Did God give them free will, and then expect that they would never make a mistake? Of course not! It is humanly impossible. No, He knew fully well they would make a mistake, just as our children do with us. That is not the end of a relationship, but rather the beginning of a long, loving, forgiving, teaching relationship. It may have been the end of their purity and innocence, but it was not the end of their relationship with their Father.

Think about this: what do we do when we have a new child? Don't we fix a special place for them? A special room, or a special bed, or a special area? Of course we do! But we do not expect them to stay in that special place forever, do we? No, its just a special "safe" place, where all their needs will be met, and there will be no danger. Isn't this what God did for Adam and Eve? Didn't He fix a special place for them, that supplied all their physical needs? There was plenty of food and water. There was no hardship or danger. But I cannot believe that He intended for them to remain there forever. What if they had not been kicked out of this paradise? Is there room in there for all of mankind? No, we wouldn't all fit. If God wanted every one in the world to live in the garden of Eden, why was it so small? And what was the vast remaining part of the earth for? I think the garden was the nursery of the human race. What else could it have been? What do you think started this tradition we have, of preparing a special place for our infants?

Secondly, God has given all of humanity "free will". Now, if I give you a choice in everything, won't you at some point in time make a wrong choice? If God disowned everyone who makes a wrong choice, He wouldn't have any children at all. So what would be the point of giving the choice? God gave us a choice because He loves us very much. He is delighted everytime He sees us make a good choice. But He does not disown us every time we mess up. No, He is our Father. Like it or not, we are in His family. Whether we know it or not, we are related to God. Satan has decieved us into thinking we are not God's children, but we are.

Jesus came and died trying to convince us of this very fact. Did you know that Jesus described God as Father, more times than the whole rest of the Bible, all put together. Even twice as much. Doesn't that sound like He was trying to make an extremely important point? But Jesus did not go around saying, "God is my Father, naa naa na naa na!" No, He said, God is my Father, and He is also your Father, too. Jesus came as a living breathing example of God living inside of a flesh and blood person. And Jesus wants us to be like Himself. He came to demonstrate what we are supposed to be.

Why do you suppose that Jesus came the way He did? He was God! He could have come in any form or fashion he wanted to. But He chose to let go of His grasp on deity, and become a human being. It's not that God was not in Him, but that He grew and God grew inside of Him. Now, that's really something! If you were God, and you wanted to set the world straight, how would you do it? Would you come as a helpless infant, who had to run for His life, soon after He was born? Would you be born into a common working class family? Would you wait 30 years to start your ministry? Would you go around being a servant to the needs of the worst people in the area? Would you go around giving blessings to people who don't deserve them? Would you touch the dirty filthy diseased people with love, and honor them as your brothers and sisters? Would you sit down to eat food and drink wine with sinful people, and treat them as if they were your family? Jesus did! He gladly did! And His Father in heaven was proud of Him.

We need to realize that Jesus came to include us into the family. He was God who had become one of us, but He was also God who was trying to demonstrate that we are like Him. We are God's children, too. When Jesus taught His disciples to pray, He said, "Our Father." He did not say, "My Father." He was including us into the family, and He wanted us to include others, too. We always were in the family of God. But we had forgotten. We had wandered away and forgotten our lineage. We tried to find our own way, but we were always meant to be in contact with our Father. We were always meant to be in an intimate relationship with God, who is our Father. There is a void inside of us, when we are apart from Him. We lack vital nourishment, when we are apart from Him. When we spend time with Him, He grows bigger in us. We feel better. We feel more complete. We begin to feel whole. It's not just about God. It's about "God-in-us."

That is His greatest desire, just to spend intimate time with us. Our doctrine cannot accomplish this. Our knowledge cannot accomplish this. Being right or good cannot accomplish this. Only spending time with Him, can accomplish this. It's about a relationship. It's about a love-relationship. He wants to be the Father. All we have to do is be the children. No, He does not want to rule us, like a tyrant. Rather, He wants to walk with us, as a loving Father. He is everywhere, and He is right here inside of you and me, because that is part of everywhere. God did not create us and then go on an extended vacation. No, He stayed right here with us. He is everywhere and He is in everything and everybody. We have the key to life within us. All we have to do is use our gift of free-will, and choose Him. He has already chosen us, from the beginning of time.

[FirstSunday33ad]

FirstSunday:

However, if you interpret the passage as not meaning years (ie 365 days) but simply a unit of time measurement then it is possible that the "Years" were something else - such as "months". In other words, Adams life span was measured against the number of full moons that occurred in his lifetime. That would mean that Adam really lived 77 years 6 months.

Just a thought.

Socrates reply:

But here's another one -- don't just consider the age at death, but the age at fatherhood as well -- Enosh becoming a father at 7 1/2 years seems to be even more of a problem.

No, there is not the slightest lexical evidence that years were equated to months.

:dunce:...Oh well another great theory bites the dust. You think I would have considered that too? :doh: