Joseph Smith, Rigdon, Campbellism

[Krusader]

The Book of Mormon conveniently answers all the burning questions of Christian doctrine being discussed in the early part of the 19th Century. Arminianism vs. Calvinism, the manner and timing of baptism; it even quotes the Episcopal Book of Common Prayer's institution of the Lord's Supper.

Have Mormon's really thought this through? In Smith's own family there were those who favored Methodism and those who favored Presbyterianism. Perhaps Smith saw himself as a vehicle used to resolve these issues.

In any case, Sydney Rigdon, a former Baptist who went into the Campbellite movement (which was also called "restorationism," certainly impacted the early Mormon Church - and he may have had a part in the doctrine contained in the BOM. (Of course, that has yet to be fully proved).

However, Rigdon's insistence on the restoration of the "gifts of the Holy Spirit" was the main reason he was at odds with his Campbellite brethren. Of course, we all know that this belief (the restoration of apostolic gifts) was grafted into Mormonism after Rigdon joined.

The BOM, then, was an attempt to resolve doctrinal issues. Of course, I say this as one who believes that the BOM was a invention of Smith, and probably others.

There is no doubt that "A View of the Hebrews" was used by Smith as the basis of his historical narrative. It was a book readily available in his area of New York.

The BOM's plagarism of the Old Testament (mainly Isaiah), and its incorporation into its "Old Testament" section terminology and doctrines that are obviously "New Testament," prove it to be the imaginative effort of a tall tale teller, who unfortunately did not have a very good grasp of theology.

[just Johnna]

The Book of Mormon conveniently answers all the burning questions of Christian doctrine being discussed in the early part of the 19th Century. Arminianism vs. Calvinism, the manner and timing of baptism; it even quotes the Episcopal Book of Common Prayer's institution of the Lord's Supper.
Quotes the Episcopal Book of Common Prayer, that's a new one to me. Are you talking about the wording of the sacrament prayer? Can you link me to the Episcopal version?

Are there burning questions of Christian doctrine today? Mormons often think the early 19th century attention and interest to these issues was the work of Lord in preparing people to receive his full gospel. I, however, think there are always questions.
In any case, Sydney Rigdon, a former Baptist who went into the Campbellite movement (which was also called "restorationism," certainly impacted the early Mormon Church - and he may have had a part in the doctrine contained in the BOM. (Of course, that has yet to be fully proved).
Yes, Sidney (not Sydney, a girl's name or a city) Rigdon definitely contributed to and influenced the early church, it would be a mark of ingratitude to deny this. Both directly, in leading the church with Joseph, and indirectly, through the many members of his congregation who have an important influence.

Sidney Rigdon contributing to the Book of Mormon is fairly implausible. The published Book of Mormon came to Parley Pratt, who brought the book to Kirtland because of the Campbellite congregation there. In short order, there were more saints in Kirtland than in Ohio, and the New York saints moved to join them in 1830.
However, Rigdon's insistence on the restoration of the "gifts of the Holy Spirit" was the main reason he was at odds with his Campbellite brethren. Of course, we all know that this belief (the restoration of apostolic gifts) was grafted into Mormonism after Rigdon joined.
Really? So when you read 1 Corinthians 12:4-11, or chapter 14, it is irrelevant today?

You ought to know that when you say "gifts of the spirit" the first one I think of is the gift to know Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that he was crucified for the sins of the world. Isn't that a gift of the Spirit of God to you?
The BOM, then, was an attempt to resolve doctrinal issues. Of course, I say this as one who believes that the BOM was a invention of Smith, and probably others.
When people think there must have been others, I'm amused.
The BOM's plagarism of the Old Testament (mainly Isaiah)...
Well, since the words of Isaiah are presented as the words of Isaiah, we don't call it plagiarism. We call it quoting Isaiah.

I'm still curious how you came to be doing this.

Johnna, just Johnna

[Krusader]

Quotes the Episcopal Book of Common Prayer, that's a new one to me. Are you talking about the wording of the sacrament prayer? Can you link me to the Episcopal version?

Are there burning questions of Christian doctrine today? Mormons often think the early 19th century attention and interest to these issues was the work of Lord in preparing people to receive his full gospel. I, however, think there are always questions.

Yes, Sidney (not Sydney, a girl's name or a city) Rigdon definitely contributed to and influenced the early church, it would be a mark of ingratitude to deny this. Both directly, in leading the church with Joseph, and indirectly, through the many members of his congregation who have an important influence.

Sidney Rigdon contributing to the Book of Mormon is fairly implausible. The published Book of Mormon came to Parley Pratt, who brought the book to Kirtland because of the Campbellite congregation there. In short order, there were more saints in Kirtland than in Ohio, and the New York saints moved to join them in 1830.

Really? So when you read 1 Corinthians 12:4-11, or chapter 14, it is irrelevant today?

You ought to know that when you say "gifts of the spirit" the first one I think of is the gift to know Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that he was crucified for the sins of the world. Isn't that a gift of the Spirit of God to you?

When people think there must have been others, I'm amused.

Well, since the words of Isaiah are presented as the words of Isaiah, we don't call it plagiarism. We call it quoting Isaiah.

I'm still curious how you came to be doing this.

Johnna, just Johnna
Johnna, I saw that mistake of using "Sydney" for "Sidney" after I posted, but I couldn't find a way to edit it.

The issue of the charismata has been controversial in the church for a long time. During Smith's era, most churches did not practice or believe in the charismata, but believed it had passed away after the apostolic age.

Rigdon was big on the charismata and apostolic authority. He was at odds with Campbell over this, and I have read sources where Rigdon preached, shortyly before leaving the Disciples, about a new revelation that was coming that would restore these to the Church.

Most of the 19th century Christian controversies were addressed by the BOM, as Alexander Campbell pointed out in his critique of the same. You might want to look at some of Campbell's comments - they are very interesting and add a lot of insight.

I'll find the Prayerbook reference for you - I was Episcopalian for many years.

Also, I addressed some of your questions on the new thread you posted. But, as I'm pressed for time, it may not answer everything.

I became interested in Mormonism when a close friend, a Mormon, began questioning her beliefs and came to me with questions. I've studied it for many years, and was involved in apologetics back East.

Have a good evening!