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Yog^sothoth
May 8th 2003, 08:57 PM
God Bless America

By Rev. Mark S. Peake “Pilgrim” (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/member.php?action=getinfo&userid=20)

Since the events of September 11th, and more recently in these days following the advent of War in Iraq, there have been little signs popping up everywhere: in windows, on bill-boards, on bumper stickers. You can’t drive down the street with out seeing the simple prayer “God bless America.”

My reaction to this sudden outpouring of religious sentiment was at first skeptical--I wondered if people really meant it. I wondered if they had prayed for God’s blessings before the 11th. I suppose that in some way I resented this sudden appeal to something that for me had been a life long commitment.

I think we all feel this way when something we have long held in high regard suddenly becomes fashionable to everyone. We react with this misplaced ownership. And in this case, my ownership was highly misplaced. Although I have to admit that in at least one instance I was justified. I read of a “God Bless America” sign posted just below a sign that read, “Live nude dancers!” I think in that one case a healthy skepticism was a legitimate response.

But in general, what I now realize is that people are not trying to claim something that was the soul property of the church, whatever church that may be. What they are doing is turning their faces upward to look at a hope that is God’s alone to give, and God in fact offers it to all of us. It is not the pastors to own, or any particular church’s property, it is something that is owned by all who are created in the “image of God,” and as far as I can see, that is all of us.

Another concern I had is that we were somehow saying America had some sort of very weird claim on God that no other people had. I asked myself, “Are we really saying that God wants us to go kill people?” Again I realized that what people were doing was not claiming God as an American citizen, but rather with genuine hope, calling up to a God that has been present in our lives from the moment history began.

And so I look back to the Sunday after September 11th and our sanctuary which was quite possibly more full than it had ever been; I look back to the Prayer Service that the Island ministers put together the night of the 11th and remember all the people of this community coming together to pray and heal; and as I look back I realize that our prayer for God’s blessings on America are genuine and appropriate. But those prayers are only good if we follow them with something more.

What I pray for and what I call us all to is the continued commitment to that prayer. Let us return to church Sunday after Sunday and pray with each other again and again. We must remember that people are looking at God and considering the eternal questions in ways they have not in a very long time. So along with our signs, “God bless America.” Let us redouble our commitment to faith and to communities of faith so that our very lives become signs that proclaim the fact God has already blessed us!

God bless America! Indeed, God bless all God’s children everywhere!

300
TheologyWeb thanks Pilgrim for being a faifhful Quasi-Super Moderator :wink: and supporter of this site and one of our first members.

JackS
May 14th 2003, 07:53 AM
God Bless America, Good Vrs Evil!

I guess it's really the good vrs evil thing that gets me the most.

Please tell me how we are good?

Our nation ignores God's law, murder's His image by the thousands weekly, mocks His marriage covanant. Our government places it's self in the role of God and we say it's good vrs evil!

How can we ask God to bless us, when we reject almost everything in His word? Our national response should have been repent, so I get little comfort from the thousands of God Bless America signs! They serve only to mock the God of the Bible. The "God bless America" signs are a call to be blessed by a God we created in our own image. :no:

God will not be mocked, that which a man or nation sows, that shall he also reap.

If we don't repent far worse than 9/11 will befall us.

Read Psalm 2!

Pilgrim
May 15th 2003, 12:44 PM
Interesting. So you are of the view that 9/11 was a direct punishment from God?

JackS
May 15th 2003, 03:40 PM
Not sure I'd go that far. But He sure could have stopped it and saw fit not too!

Pilgrim
May 17th 2003, 07:23 PM
So when tragedy strikes your family, you think it is some sort of punishment? Or at least, Godis letting you get hammered to make a point?

JackS
May 17th 2003, 07:45 PM
Have you read the book of Job? So the answer is no.

So let me ask you. Will God forgo Judgement for the murder of 40 million babies? If so then He owes an apology to Sodom and Gomorrah!

Are you implying that God does not judge His people? Are you implying that God was having a bad hair day in the OT? Last time I checked He was the same yesterday, today and forever. I suppose you think we are living under Grace and as such are given free license to sin, because we are under Grace?

So far you have said nothing of substance.

Pilgrim
May 17th 2003, 09:26 PM
Speakingof no substance. So you are saying that the citizens of the USA are God's people?

JackS
May 18th 2003, 06:25 AM
Game over. What are you talking about? All you do is ask one sentence questions, so I am forced to assume where you are coming from. There is no purpose in this.

Pilgrim
May 18th 2003, 08:03 AM
I ask questions of yuo to help understand your position. If you can't answer questions about your position then maybe it is time to re-examine it?

You started talking about us being good or not (which was never a topic of the orignial article) so I went with that. You seemed to be saying the attacks were punishment. I wanted to clarify.

Then you said God will judge his people. I assume that since tha attacks were on US citizens you were saying that US citizens are indeed God's chosen whom he judges.

Is that correct?

JackS
May 18th 2003, 12:58 PM
Because this has not been an exchange of ideas. I'm trying to figure out where you are coming from. Which is hard to do since you never answer anything I have asked you.

God judges all people. He made them!

I will ask one simple question to try and help me understand where you are coming from.

Please answer this question.
Do you have a problem with the idea that God judges people and 9/11 might have been such judgement? I'm not saying it is, because only God knows that.

The write up was about "God Bless America" and how positive that is to see our land turing that way. Except my point is, if we are not turning to the God of the Bible, then what is the point? We are a people that need to repent as a Nation, for our many national sins. But I see no signs of such repentance, nor do I hear it being shouted form the pulpits of this nation.

God has blessed this nation above all others, but I fear we are living on the blessings to the 3rd and 4th generation. God will not be mocked, every nation in history that has rejected His word has been destroyed. Will we be any different?

Pilgrim
May 18th 2003, 03:13 PM
I hear what you are saying and you make some great points. To answer your question...no I don't think this was God judging us. Because many faithful people were killed. And God does not punish the innocent. I think 9/11 was the work of evil plain and simlple.

Pilgrim

JackS
May 18th 2003, 04:28 PM
Thanks, but you did not answer the question.

I will say I have no idea what 9/11 was in terms of God's Judgement. Again, only God knows.

I asked, "Do you have a problem with the idea that God judges people and 9/11 might have been such judgement? "

You also said:
"And God does not punish the innocent"

As we stand before God who can claim to be innocent?

Pilgrim
May 18th 2003, 08:00 PM
Hmm, let me be clearer then..."No I have no problem with the concept that GOd judges people, especially in terms of eternity. (Of course that is a different concept than what you may be talking about.) I do have a problem with the idea that 9/11 was a judgement of OT type. As I stated before the innocent were slain on 9/11 and I don't think God does that.


Pilgrim

NEONBlack
May 22nd 2003, 01:14 PM
I'm brand new and all so I might very well be overstepping my bounds into what might very well be a private conversation--if I am, I apologize and will not do so again.

If not, I have a few comments from an outside point of view.

While I also have noticed the sudden and immediate outpouring of "God Bless America" sentimentality that has cropped up throughout the nation, I also hold the same cynicism as to its foundation and the reasoning behind it.

There are, however, a few points that neither of you have considered in your back and forth. I do agree with the view that God has blessed this nation--but I also have to hold to the standard that a majority of prophetic interpretations have said, that being there is no real evidence of America playing a major role in the events to come. That being said, I love my nation with all my heart. While its current incarnation seems to be unable to get down off the fence as to whether or not to be a God-fearing country, that does not mean that God either has or has not punished us for our sins or lack thereof. That is simply not an option, because of the new covenant through Christ.

Of course God could have stopped it. God could stop anything He wanted to; He could also start anything He wanted to.

However, the Old Testament is an illustration of His covenant with the Israelites and a much more pronounced intervention plan. When the new covenant was established through the sacrifice of Jesus, He took a much more hands-off approach. I'm not saying there are no miracles; of course He maintains a personal relationship to all of us, if we allow Him to.

That is the point, though. We are responsible of exercising a free will He created us with--just as those who deny Him exercise their own free will to do so, as well as attack those who may or may not follow Him.

The attack on 9/11 was an attack on many things; it was an attack on the United States of America and the capitalism and democracy it supports. It was an attack on the Judeo-Christian ethic that has been inserted into the vast majority of the rules and laws governing the USA as a whole. And it was an attack on the Judeo-Christian faith itself.

Where we stand after all this still remains to be seen.