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rasha
December 2nd 2004, 07:55 PM
Asalamo Alykoum (Peace and mercy from God be upon you)

There are many different openions about Islam whether it is a true religion or not and whether Quran is words of God or not.
I will point directlly to the answer in a very scientific way which every body can easily balance the truth of Islam and Quran by his/her logic.

It is well known that when God sends any prophet, He supports him with many miracles to prove that he is a real prophet and that he is sent by God. The evidence that God has suported prophet Muhammed peace be upon him with
was the Qur'an.

How can Quran be the miracle of Islam?

-------------------------The big challange in the past------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quran was revealed in the Arabic language and arabs by that time were very very strong in their arabic language, they fully mastered it and they used to compose beautiful and excellent poetry, still read and appreciated today, so the arabic language itself was their area of strength and consequently God had chosen it as the area of challange to prove that Muhammed is a real prophet.
God has said in the Quran: (The following is transaltion of (Quran, 2:23-25)")

" And if you are in doubt about what We have revealed (the Quran) to Our worshiper (Muhammad ), then produce a chapter like it, and call your witnesses (supporters and helpers) besides God if you are truthful. And if you do not do it, and you can never do it, then fear the Fire (Hell) ....."


Did the arabic disblievers meet this challange?

No. they have never never been able to meet this challange taking into consideration that the samallest chapter in Quran (Chapter 108) is only ten words, and this chanllange is valid till our current time for any body who wants to meet it but as God said "and you can never do it", no body had never done it and will never do it.
-------------------------The big challange in the present time----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quran is not revealed to arabs only instead it is revealed to the whole world and to all human beings so a question now comes up: if the arabic language of Quran is used as an evidence for arabic-speaking people what about non arabic-speaking people and here comes the most powerfull and clearest evidence that Quran which was revealed FOURTEEN CENTURIES ago is the literal word of God.

The notion that religion is at odds with scientific development is alien to Islam. We are in an age where religion and science can embarce, the true religion and the true science with no contradiction. That is there is no possibility that a proven scientific fact could contradict a divinely revealed truth which has been clearly understood.
Read the following translation of verse number 53 in chapter no. 41:

"Soon will We show them Our Signs in the (furthest) regions (of the earth), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?"

I will now put infront of you some of the quranic verses that have been revealed from 14 centuries ago and I will show you how recently science (real facts and not theories) has perfecly fits the revealtion stated in the Quran and please take into consideration that most of the scinteific discoveries nowadays are discovered by non muslim scientists.

====First example: The Quran on Mountains: -----------------------

A book entitled Earth is a basic reference textbook in many universities around the world. One of its two authors is Professor Emeritus Frank Press. He was the Science Advisor to former US President Jimmy Carter, and for 12 years was the President of the National Academy of Sciences, Washington, DC.

First fact about mountains

His book says that mountains have underlying roots. (Eart press and Siever, p 435. also see Earth science , Tarbuck and Lutgens, p. 157)

These roots are deeply embedded in the ground, thus, mountains have a shape like a peg

This is how the Quran has described mountains.
God has said in the Quran:
" Have We not made the earth as a bed, and the mountains as pegs?" (Quran, 78:6-7)

Modern earth sciences have proven that mountains have deep roots under the surface of the ground and that these roots can reach several times their elevations above the surface of the ground.

So the most suitable word to describe mountains on the basis of this information is the word ‘peg,’ since most of a properly set peg is hidden under the surface of the ground.

The history of science tells us that the theory of mountains having deep roots was introduced only in the latter half of the nineteenth century.

Second fact about mountains
Mountains also play an important role in stabilizing the crust of the earth.
They hinder the shaking of the earth.
God has said in the Quran:
" And He has set firm mountains in the earth so that it would not shake with you... " (Quran, 16:15)
Likewise, the modern theory of plate tectonics holds that mountains work as stabilizers for the earth.
This knowledge about the role of mountains as stabilizers for the earth has just begun to be understood in the framework of plate tectonics since the late 1960’s.

--------- Point of Logic ---------
Could anyone during the time of the Prophet Muhammad have known of the true shape of mountains?
Could anyone imagine that the solid massive mountain which he sees before him actually extends deep into the earth and has a root, as scientists assert? A large number of books of geology, when discussing
mountains, only describe that part which is above the surface of the earth. This is because these books were not written by specialists in geology. However, modern geology has confirmed the truth of the Quranic verses.

====Second example: The Quran on Seas and Rivers: ----------------------

First fact about seas

Modern Science has discovered that in the places where two different seas meet, there is a barrier between them. This barrier divides the two seas so that each sea has its own temperature, salinity, and density.
For example, Mediterranean sea water is warm, saline, and less dense, compared to Atlantic ocean water. When Mediterranean sea water enters the Atlantic over the Gibraltar sill, it moves several hundred kilometers into the Atlantic at a depth of about 1000 meters with its own warm, saline, and less dense characteristics. The Mediterranean water stabilizes at this depth. Although there are large waves, strong currents, and tides in these seas, they do not mix or transgress this barrier.

The Holy Quran mentioned that there is a barrier between two seas that meet and that they do not transgress.
God has said:
" He has set free the two seas meeting together. There is a barrier between them. They do not transgress. "
(Quran, 55:19-20)

Second fact about seas
But when the Quran speaks about the divider between fresh and salt water, it mentions the existence of “a forbidding partition” with the barrier.
God has said in the Quran:
" He is the one who has set free the two kinds of water, one sweet and palatable, and the other salty and bitter. And He has made between them a barrier and a forbidding partition. "
(Quran, 25:53)
One may ask, why did the Quran mention the partition when speaking about the divider between fresh and salt water, but did not mention it when speaking about the divider between the two seas?

Modern science has discovered that in estuaries, where fresh (sweet) and salt water meet, the situation is somewhat different from what is found in places where two seas meet. It has been discovered that what
distinguishes fresh water from salt water in estuaries is a “pycnocline zone with a marked density discontinuity separating the two layers. This partition (zone of separation) has a different salinity from the fresh water
and from the salt water.

This information has been discovered only recently, using advanced equipment to measure temperature, salinity, density, oxygen dissolubility, etc. The human eye cannot see the difference between the two seas that meet, rather the two seas appear to us as one homogeneous sea. Likewise, the human eye cannot see the division of water in estuaries into the three kinds: fresh water, salt water, and the partition (zone of separation).


--------- Point of Logic ---------
This information has been discovered only recently, using advanced equipment to measure temperature, salinity, density, oxygen dissolubility, etc. The human eye cannot see the difference between the two seas that meet, rather the two seas appear to us as one homogeneous sea. Likewise, the human eye cannot see the division of water in estuaries into the three kinds: fresh water, salt water, and the partition (zone of separation).


--------- Conclusion ---------
The only reasonable conclusion is : Quran was revealed to Muhammed from God. He could not have known such details because he was an illitrate man with absolutely no scientific training and originally these pieces of information were not known at his time by anybody.

Refrence of above examples
Book Name:A brief illustrated guide to understanding Islam
Url: http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1-a.htm



====Third example: The Quran on Fly and Future challange for scientific age: -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fly, what a little small insect but can the whole world meet the challange announced by God in Quran???

"O' people! A parable is set forth (unto you) so listen unto it! Verily, those whom you call upon besides God can never create (even) a fly, even though they gather for it, and should the fly carry away any thing from them, they can not take it back from it; (how) weak the invoker and the invoked."
(22: 73)

God in this verse does not only announce a challange but clears another scientific fact that proves the triuth of Quran which was revealed by Him to Muhammed

Please refer to the following link to know the whole story
http://www.al-shia.com/html/eng/books/quran/the-fly/the-fly.htm

but here is its point:

God talks to us in this verse of our inability to extract from the fly what it has taken away (by feeding). why wouldn't it be possible to take back from the fly what it had taken away, one may think that with the available tools nowadays can dissect what is even smaller than a fly?

Scientific fact
When a fly needed to eat, it would extent its mouth to the surface of the desired food , creating a tube. If you would examine the tube closely you would see that the end that touches the surface of the food was wider, making it look like a vacuum cleaner's tube's end. After the fly had extended it's mouth, it would excrete enzymes that allowed it to break the food and convert it into liquid. That helped the fly draw the food into the its body.

What does this all mean? And what does the digestion process of the fly have to do with the parable mentioned in the verse? Notice carefully how the verse discusses this eternal disability. The problem with extracting the food does not come from the limitations of the tools, but rather in what is being extracted. Remember that the food that went into the body of the fly is not the same anymore. The food was broken down into molecules that makes it not longer what it was, and even it was taken back it would not be the same. Therefore it cannot be obtained again.

Notice also that even if we were to take back the food at the first point when it was just entering the mouth of the fly, it would still not help, because the food was digested even before that. Therefore, "they can not take it back from it" ever.


====More examples: ----------------------
I have just metioned three examples but there are many others, you can view these examples (by figures) and more on the following url
Url: http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1-a.htm

Finally I will provide translations of 2 verses in Quran

"Say: O ye men now truth hath reached you from your Lord those who receive guidance, do so for the good of their own souls; those who stray, do so to their own loss: and I am not (set) over you to arrange your affairs."
chapter no. 10 verse no. 108

====================

"Do they not reflect in their own minds? not but for just ends and for a term appointed, did Allah create the heavens and the earth, and all between them: yet are there truly many among men who deny the meeting with their Lord (At the Resurrection)!"
chapter no. 30 verse no. 8

Thank you for reading this post

Sparko
December 3rd 2004, 07:55 PM
I am sorry but with this on the front page of that web site, I can't take anything you say seriously.

:lmbo:

Spiritus Naturae
December 4th 2004, 12:10 AM
:twitch: :twitch:

rasha
December 4th 2004, 05:57 PM
Aslamo Alikom (peace and mercy from God be upon you),

JohnSparks, why can not you take it seroiusly, this is science i.e logic not plays or puzzels , just say what is exactly you can not take it seriously?

Thank you

Jude3b
December 4th 2004, 05:58 PM
IS THE KORAN THE WORD OF GOD???

Islam claims that the Koran is the literal Word of God, dictated supernaturally to Muhammad from the angel Gabriel. Muslims believe the Koran is perfect and without error. Is it really?

Islam further claims that the teachings of the Koran are in harmony with the autographs of the Holy Bible because this is what the Koran teaches.
"...and We have sent down to thee the Book (the Koran) with the truth, confirming the Book (the Bible) that was before it, and assuring it."

Now what is the problem here? Well, everyone who carefully and impartially reads both the Holy Bible and the Koran must agree that, as they both stand, the Koran and the Holy Bible contradict one another on every major religious doctrine: the nature of the Godhead, Jesus, personal salvation, man, Holy Scripture, etc. The Koran teaches a unitarian view of the Godhead. The Holy Bible shows us that the Godhead is trinitarian. The Koran states that Jesus was only a man (yes a prophet, but still just a man), while the Holy Bible declares that Jesus Christ is God incarnate. The Koran, teaches that Salvation is uncertain and by works. The Holy Bible states that Christians are saved by grace and that we can be sure of that fact. Obviously the two books the Koran and the Holy Bible are very, very different.
The Holy Bible is the older revelation of the two.

Since the actual manuscript evidence forces us to conclude that the Holy Bible has not been corrupted, there is only one conclusion a Muslim can logically reach. If Allah really inspired both the Holy Bible and the Koran, then he contradicts himself to such an extent that it would be impossible to ascertain his teachings or will for men.

Almighty God has preserved His Word for us and it is contained in the Holy Bible - not the later writings that became the Koran.

rasha
December 4th 2004, 07:38 PM
Aslamo alikom (Peace and mercy from God be upon you)


Islam further claims that the teachings of the Koran are in harmony with the autographs of the Holy Bible because this is what the Koran teaches.
"...and We have sent down to thee the Book (the Koran) with the truth, confirming the Book (the Bible) that was before it, and assuring it."
..... Written by Jude

Jude, I think that you have not carefully read and understood the whole Quran,

You pointed to the following

"...and We have sent down to thee the Book (the Koran) with the truth, confirming the Book (the Bible) that was before it, and assuring it."

First of all, The book here is not only the bible because there are also the books of Moses and of Ibrahim and of Dawod

Second If you have read the whole text of Quran You would had also found that there are verses that tells that the same talking was also said by Moses and Jesus peace be upon them.
I mean by the same talking is that the book which was revealed to moses was confirming what had been revealed before him and what was revealed to Jesus was confirming what had been revealed to Moses

and here are the translation of the verses of Quran that point to this:

Chapter 2 verse number 40, 41 ( Moses peace be upon him)

O Children of Israel! call to mind the (special) favour which I bestowed upon you, and fulfil your Covenant with Me as I fulfil My Covenant with you, and fear none but Me. -
And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone.'


Chapter 3 Verse number 50 ( Jesus peace be upon him)

" '(I have come to you), to attest the law which was before me (Taurât). And to make lawful to you part of what was (before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.' "

Chapter 3 Verses number 3, 4 ( Muhammed peace be upon him)

"It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the book, confirming what went before it; and he sent down the law (of Moses) and the gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and he sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong).
Then those who reject Faith in the Signs of Allah will suffer the severest penalty, and Allah is exalted in might, Lord of retribution."


Lastly, The faith of Islam is simply believing in God and in all what God has revealed to all of his prophets, The following is translation of verse number 136 in chapter number 2:

'Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma`il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord: we make no difference between one and another of them: and we bow to Allah (in Islam).'

Jude, you have also said,


Since the actual manuscript evidence forces us to conclude that the Holy Bible has not been corrupted, there is only one conclusion a Muslim can logically reach. If Allah really inspired both the Holy Bible and the Koran, then he contradicts himself to such an extent that it would be impossible to ascertain his teachings or will for men.

No Jude Allah Praise be to Him does not contadict Himself, if you also have read Quran more carefully then you must have understood the point of revelation of more than one book, read the translation of the following verses and please gice special attention to the red cloured texts

Translation of verse number 213 in chapter number 2
"Mankind was one single nation, and Allah sent Messengers with glad tidings and warnings; and with them He sent the Book in truth, to judge between people in matters wherein they differed; but the People of the Book, after the clear Signs came to them, did not differ among themselves, except through selfish contumacy. Allah by His Grace guided the Believers to the Truth, concerning that wherein they differed. For Allah guides whom He will to a path that is straight. "

Translation of verse number 146 in chapter number 2
'The People of the Book know this as they know their own sons, but some of them conceal the truth which they themselves know.'

Translation of verse number 79 in chapter number 2
'Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: "This is from Allah," to traffic with it for a miserable price! - woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby'

Finally I opened this post to answer the question whether Quran is from God or not and posted some scientific examples that prove that Quran is the truth because some of the facts that have been mentioned in the Quran were not known by anybody in the whole world, those facts were very detaild secientific facts that were recently discovered by human being who colud not discover them and reach those facts except with the latest technologies and after many years of research. How could Muhammed has known them from 14 centuries ago then logically and simply Quran and all scientfic facts in it come from God and only from God the One.


Islam claims that the Koran is the literal Word of God, dictated supernaturally to Muhammad from the angel Gabriel. Muslims believe the Koran is perfect and without error. Is it really?

Yes, Quran is the truth and it is perfect and it is without error because as Allah said in Quran:

'Do they not consider the Quran (with care)? had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy.'
chapter no4. verse no.82

and remember that the facts that were mentioned in Quran were scentifically proved to be correct by non muslim scientists after 14 centuries so belive that 'had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy'

Thank you

Sparko
December 4th 2004, 08:15 PM
Aslamo Alikom (peace and mercy from God be upon you),

JohnSparks, why can not you take it seroiusly, this is science i.e logic not plays or puzzels , just say what is exactly you can not take it seriously?

Thank you
1. The web site comparing an embro to a piece of chewing gum.

that's funny. very scientific.

2. It claims that since the embryo is shaped like the arabic word for "chewed substance" that it means the quran is supernatural since no one could know what an embryo looked like.

a. why not? Did women not have miscarrages in ancient arabia?

b. did they not have doctors in ancient arabia?

c. it is especially funny how the piec of gum has been molded on purpose, complete with a tooth mark spine to match up with the embryo picture. very cute.

d. did mohammed invent the arabic language? If not, then he did not come up with the terms in arabic that were used to name the stages of embryonic devepment, so the use of the terms in the quran is not evidence of Allah revealing anything to man, but that Arabic men had knowledge of the various stages of embryonic development to such an extent that they had givin them descriptive names. information that existed before mohommed wrote down the quran.

Jude3b
December 4th 2004, 10:28 PM
If the Koran is the revealed Word of God, shouldn't it be without errors and biblical distortions? The answer is YES.

Muslims and Chrstians agree that it is impossilbe for God to inspire error in His Word. But no one can deny that the Koran contains a large number of errors...

Yet, the examples are everywhere - Here are just seven of them:

1) The Koran teaches that the Ark of Noah came to rest on the top of Mt. Judi (Sura 11:44), not Mt. Ararat as the Bible teaches;

2) that Abraham's father was Azar (Sura 6:74), not Terah as the Bible teaches;

3) that he attempted to sacrifice Ishmael (Sura 37:100-112), not Isaac as the Bible teaches;

4) that Pharaoh's wife adopted Moses (Sura 28:8-9), not his daughter as the Bible teaches;

5) that Noah's flood occurred in Moses' day (Sura 7:136, cf 7:59ff);

6) that Mary, the mother of Jesus, gave birth to Jesus under a palm tree (Sura 19:22), not in a stable as the Bible teaches;

7) that Mary's father was named Imram (Sura 66:12), etc.

Here is one really big error: Muhammad is nowhere found mentioned in the Holy Bible, but the Koran claims that Muhammad himself is "described in the Torah and the Gospel." So, since the Bible is historically accurate, then it is the Koran that must be in error and thereby not the revealed Word of God.

There is a revealed Word of God - it is the Holy Bible and we can fully trust its truth!

rasha
December 5th 2004, 06:06 PM
Aslamo alikom (Peace and mercy from God be upon you)

1. The web site comparing an embro to a piece of chewing gum.

that's funny. very scientific.

2. It claims that since the embryo is shaped like the arabic word for "chewed substance" that it means the quran is supernatural since no one could know what an embryo looked like.

a. why not? Did women not have miscarrages in ancient arabia?

b. did they not have doctors in ancient arabia?

JohnSparks,This is science and the information can be so easily judged to be true or false, just ask scientists and do not assume things by yourself.

First
The resources of the scientifc facts about the embryo development in the web site in question (http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1-a.htm) were written on the same web site at the end of the page as:
the refrence name , the author name, the page number (from which the piece of the information was execluded)

and the following is an example of the footnote at the end of the emryo page on the web site

(2) The Developing Human, Moore and Persaud, 5th ed., p. 8.
(3) Human Development as Described in the Quran and Sunnah, Moore and others, p. 36.
(4) Human Development as Described in the Quran and Sunnah, Moore and others, pp. 37-38.
(5) The Developing Human, Moore and Persaud, 5th ed., p. 65.
(6) The Developing Human, Moore and Persaud, 5th ed., p. 8. (7) The Developing Human, Moore and Persaud, 5th ed., p. 9.
(8) Note: The occupations of all the scientists mentioned in this web site were last updated in 1997. )

and if you revised the web page in questuion, you would find viedio tapes of what is written on the web page recorded by the author of the refrence

Second: let us know who are Moore whose name was mentioned as one of the main authors of the 2 refrences above

The following is just copy and paste of a portion of the text on the page you think it is funny, but if you have read it carefully, you would have easily find the truth

"Professor Emeritus Keith L. Moore is one of the world’s most prominent scientists in the fields of anatomy and embryology and is the author of the book entitled The Developing Human, which has been translated into eight languages. This book is a scientific reference work and was chosen by a special committee in the United States as the best book authored by one person. Dr. Keith Moore is Professor Emeritus of Anatomy and Cell Biology at the University of Toronto, Toronto, Canada. There, he was Associate Dean of Basic Sciences at the Faculty of Medicine and for 8 years was the Chairman of the Department of Anatomy. In 1984, he received the most distinguished award presented in the field of anatomy in Canada, the J.C.B. Grant Award from the Canadian Association of Anatomists. He has directed many international associations, such as the Canadian and American Association of Anatomists and the Council of the Union of Biological Sciences."

Third: Now let us see what Dr Moore - the very qualified and Non Muslim Professor of Anatomy and Cell Biology - said by himself:

(In 1981, during the Seventh Medical Conference in Dammam, Saudi Arabia, Professor Moore said: “It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the Quran about human development. It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from God, because almost all of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later. This proves to me that Muhammad must have been a messenger of God.”)

(please go to the site to hear the vedio tape by yourself http://www.islam-guide.com/video.jpg (http://www.islam-guide.com/video/moore-1.ram)
The following is continuation of the text on the web page .....

'Consequently, Professor Moore was asked the following question: “Does this mean that you believe that the Quran is the word of God?” He replied: “I find no difficulty in accepting this.”10 (http://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1-a.htm#footnote10) )

JohnSparks, the comming portion of the text answers you questions and your final comment by a very qualified Non Muslim scientist

your question were:


a. why not? Did women not have miscarrages in ancient arabia?

b. did they not have doctors in ancient arabia?
written by JohnSparks


d. did mohammed invent the arabic language? If not, then he did not come up with the terms in arabic that were used to name the stages of embryonic devepment, so the use of the terms in the quran is not evidence of Allah revealing anything to man, but that Arabic men had knowledge of the various stages of embryonic development to such an extent that they had givin them descriptive names. information that existed before mohommed wrote down the quran.
written by JohnSparks

Answer:

"During one conference, Professor Moore stated: “....Because the staging of human embryos is complex, owing to the continuous process of change during development, it is proposed that a new system of classification could be developed using the terms mentioned in the Quran and Sunnah (what Muhammad http://www.islam-guide.com/salla.jpg said, did, or approved of). The proposed system is simple, comprehensive, and conforms with present embryological knowledge. The intensive studies of the Quran and hadeeth (reliably transmitted reports by the Prophet Muhammad’s http://www.islam-guide.com/salla.jpg companions of what he said, did, or approved of) in the last four years have revealed a system for classifying human embryos that is amazing since it was recorded in the seventh century A.D. Although Aristotle, the founder of the science of embryology, realized that chick embryos developed in stages from his studies of hen’s eggs in the fourth century B.C., he did not give any details about these stages. As far as it is known from the history of embryology, little was known about the staging and classification of human embryos until the twentieth century. For this reason, the descriptions of the human embryo in the Quran cannot be based on scientific knowledge in the seventh century. The only reasonable conclusion is: these descriptions were revealed to Muhammad from God. He could not have known such details because he was an illiterate man with absolutely no scientific training"


Still there is one more comment you pointed, I will re-answer it spreatly in case you could not get the answer from the above.

You comment is:

c. it is especially funny how the piec of gum has been molded on purpose, complete with a tooth mark spine to match up with the embryo picture. very cute.


Answer is a portion from the above text said by Prof Moore:

"Because the staging of human embryos is complex, owing to the continuous process of change during development, it is proposed that a new system of classification could be developed using the terms mentioned in the Quran and Sunnah (what Muhammad http://www.islam-guide.com/salla.jpg said, did, or approved of). The proposed system is simple, comprehensive, and conforms with present embryological knowledge. "

My final comment is:
This funny shewed gum is the exact description of the embryo in a certain stage, simply like this. This is the age where religion and science can embrace, the true religion and the true science, with no contradictions

Jude, execuse me I will not be able to reply for your post today, but I will reply soon if God wishes.

Thanks a lot

Sparko
December 5th 2004, 09:20 PM
Sorry but your cut and pastes did not answer even one of my objections.

Also, don't forget that Arabs have been shown to have had excellent scientific knowledge long before the europeons did. And they also had animals to study their embryos of and not just chickens.

The whole web site you posted in the first post is very lame. Full of circumstantial things. It is what I call "stretching" things to try to make them mean more than they do.

For example, it mentions that the Quran calls the mountains "pegs" in the earth, and the website goes on about how mountains have roots and how could they know that so the quran must be from God.

Come on! "pegs" is clearly poetic language and analagous to mountains sticking up out of the ground like pegs in a board. It has nothing to do with any part of mountains extending "roots", it refers on to the part sticking above the ground.

The whole web site is full of such nonsense. Taking descriptive language or poetic language and trying to use it to refer to something scientific, when it doesn't. Or assuming the people in the ancient world were dumber than we are now. They were just as intelligent as we are today and could observe their world as well as we can now.

And please, answer in your own words, not in cuts and pastes. You can cut and paste some relevant information, but please explain in your own words. Using other people's words as your own is not encouraged on this board.

Merry Christmas and God Bless,

John Sparks

rasha
December 9th 2004, 08:11 PM
Aslamo alikom, (Peace and mercy from God be upon you)

JohnSparks, I think you have not read about the Arabs' history well to say the following:


Also, don't forget that Arabs have been shown to have had excellent scientific knowledge long before the europeons did. And they also had animals to study their embryos of and not just chickens.

It is true that Arabs have had excellent scientific knowledge long before the europeons did as you said but you missed to mention that Arabs civilzation and their excellent scientific knowledge started AFTER Islam and not before Islam. It is obvious that you could not differentiate between the pre-Islamic age and the Islamic age.

I would like to give the readers a breif summary of the life of arabs before Islam.

Environment:

The Arabian peninsula is a harsh - desert - place to live. As a land mass, it is separated from its parent continent, Africa, and from Asia by the Red Sea in the west and the Persian Gulf in the east.

The harshness of the environment forced on Arabs a nomadic life. The daily life of a Bedouin (a nomadic Arab) was nothing more than that of a shepherd, rearing animals to support their lives, taking tents as homes and wandering in the wide desert fetching water and pasture and of course agriculture was out of the question. (by the way Prophet Muhammed peace be upon him worked as a shepherd in his childhood) Only few of them were able to have a settled life, congregated together, formed small cities if permenant source of water was available.

The main feautre of their economy was foreign trade especailly in Makka (Prophets' origin city and the bggest city in the Arabic penensula). The people of Makka depended upon their trade with Syria and Yemen.

Poltical Life:
There was no central government to enforce law and order in the peninsula. The whole Arabia was divided into tribes, each tribe forming a separate and independent unit. Each tribe had a chief of its own who would lead it in a battle against another tribe to get back its rights. Tribal prejudice was common and small incidents would lead to bitter battels which continued for generations.

Their neighbouring great empires of Byzantine and Persia (Iran now) paid no attention to Arabs who were thought to be barbaric, poor and hungry.

Social life:

Arabia before Islam was a pagan society, and the Arabs worshipped statuses which they had made by their own hands. Their idolatry was crude and primitive, and their habits, customs and characteristics were repulsive. Drunkenness was one of their many vices, and they were gamblers and they used to bury their female infants alive as they fear poverty.

Conclusion and Islamic Age:

The Arabian peninsula at that time (before Islam) had not any sgin of any kind of civilzation or scientific knowldge and this was documented in history.
but indeed it was then a real historical shift for the Arabic history that begins with the emergence of Islam. and here comes Arabs to show having excellent scientific knowledge long before the europeons did as you previously said,
and to have their own great civilization that lasted for 13 centruies.


Thus Scientific facts mentioned in Quran which was revealed 14 centuries ago and proved to be correct in our current scientific were not based on human or arabic knowledge.


JohnSparks You said:


For example, it mentions that the Quran calls the mountains "pegs" in the earth, and the website goes on about how mountains have roots and how could they know that so the quran must be from God.

Come on! "pegs" is clearly poetic language and analagous to mountains sticking up out of the ground like pegs in a board. It has nothing to do with any part of mountains extending "roots", it refers on to the part sticking above the ground.

The whole web site is full of such nonsense. Taking descriptive language or poetic language and trying to use it to refer to something scientific, when it doesn't. Or assuming the people in the ancient world were dumber than we are now. They were just as intelligent as we are today and could observe their world as well as we can now.



You come on, this lame site as you used to call it mentions true scentific facts that were discovered by qualified non-muslim scientists in SEVEN different areas of science to be exactly matching the sayings of Quran that revealed from 14 centuries and you just say "Taking descriptive language or poetic language and trying to use it to refer to something scientific, when it doesn't. " How it does not???!!!!!!. one can believe what you say and say it is just a coincidence if it was just one eample but all these sientific facts in Quran in 7 different areas of science proved to be correct, one can never say it is a coincidence.


And please, answer in your own words, not in cuts and pastes. You can cut and paste some relevant information, but please explain in your own words. Using other people's words as your own is not encouraged on this board.

I used cuts and pastes to include exact phrases that were said by the scientist's and I mentioned in my post that these words were the scientist's because this was my objective from including it as it is.

For eample I said in my last post:
During one conference, Professor Moore stated: “....Because the staging of human embryos is complex, owing to the continuous process of ......

and when I included a statment that was written on the site I mentioned I cut and paste this portion, for eample I said:

The following is just copy and paste of a portion of the text on the page you think it is funny, but if you have read it carefully, you would have easily find the truth ........

So you never say I use other people's words as my own. You should read posts carfully before accusing people of false things.
Thanks a lot