Archaeologist discovers "John the Baptist" cave

[Amazing Rando]

British archaeologist discovers "John the Baptist" cave near Jerusalem (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20041205/sc_afp/israel_antiquities_religion_041205191050) KIBBUTZ TSUBA, Israel (AFP) - A British archaeologist has uncovered a cave in the mountains near Jerusalem which he believes conclusively proves that the Biblical figure of John the Baptist existed.

"The first concrete evidence of the existence of John the Baptist has been found on site," 46-year-old Shimon Gibson told AFP.

Gibson, who holds a degree from University College London and has written several works on Biblical archaeology, believes the discovery to be "the first archaeological proof of the historical veracity of the Gospels".


Other archaeologists, however, believe Gibson's conclusions go too far, and that the discovery of an ancient place of worship linked to John the Baptist does not prove that he actually existed.


According to the New Testament, John the Baptist was a prophet and fiery preacher who lived in the mountains between Jerusalem and the Dead Sea. A contemporary of Jesus, John called on people to repent of their sins, after which he would baptize them in the Jordan River.


The cave, which is located on the grounds of Kibbutz Tsuba just outside Jerusalem, is "about an hour's donkey ride from Ein Kerem, the village where Christian tradition says John was born," Gibson says.


It is also on the edge of the Judean desert, where John was known to hold spiritual retreats.

This was also reported in Biblical Archaeology Review if I'm not mistaken.

[Pilgrim]

It seems that if he thinks this is the first proof he has never hear of the stone at Ceaserea by the Sea which read, "This tablet given by Pontius Pilate.."

[Amazing Rando]

It seems that if he thinks this is the first proof he has never hear of the stone at Ceaserea by the Sea which read, "This tablet given by Pontius Pilate.."

What he said was "The first concrete evidence of the existence of John the Baptist has been found on site." I don't think the existence of Pilate has ever been seriously questioned- but I could be wrong.

[Minnesota]

From the article.
He decided to start excavating after discovering a crudely-drawn picture of John the Baptist carved into the limestone walls "dressed in camel hair robes" as described in the Gospel of Matthew.

Evidently the picture was titled, "Johnny B. all decked out in his camel robe."

Several crosses and a rough drawing of a severed head were also carved into the walls, illustrating John's death by beheading at the hands of Herod Antipas, ruler of the northern Galilee region at the time.


Equally evident would be the necessary title (or something like it), "John the Baptist looses his head to the ire of Herod."

[kendemyer]

ignore this post. I didn't see there was a link in the initial post.

[Amazing Rando]

ignore this post. I didn't see there was a link in the initial post.

Ken, you can just delete your posts if you want us to ignore them. You know how to do that?

[Amazing Rando]

I also have no idea how this guy propses to determine for certain that this was John the baptist's main haunt. But its in the BAR, so someone must be taking him seriously, somewhere. :nsm:

[Pilgrim]

What he said was "The first concrete evidence of the existence of John the Baptist has been found on site." I don't think the existence of Pilate has ever been seriously questioned- but I could be wrong.
The article quotes him as saying that the cave offers "the first archaeological proof of the historical veracity of the Gospels". That's what I was refering to.

[YeshuaMarine]

British archaeologist discovers "John the Baptist" cave near Jerusalem (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20041205/sc_afp/israel_antiquities_religion_041205191050) KIBBUTZ TSUBA, Israel (AFP) - A British archaeologist has uncovered a cave in the mountains near Jerusalem which he believes conclusively proves that the Biblical figure of John the Baptist existed.

"The first concrete evidence of the existence of John the Baptist has been found on site," 46-year-old Shimon Gibson told AFP.

Gibson, who holds a degree from University College London and has written several works on Biblical archaeology, believes the discovery to be "the first archaeological proof of the historical veracity of the Gospels".


Other archaeologists, however, believe Gibson's conclusions go too far, and that the discovery of an ancient place of worship linked to John the Baptist does not prove that he actually existed.


According to the New Testament, John the Baptist was a prophet and fiery preacher who lived in the mountains between Jerusalem and the Dead Sea. A contemporary of Jesus, John called on people to repent of their sins, after which he would baptize them in the Jordan River.


The cave, which is located on the grounds of Kibbutz Tsuba just outside Jerusalem, is "about an hour's donkey ride from Ein Kerem, the village where Christian tradition says John was born," Gibson says.


It is also on the edge of the Judean desert, where John was known to hold spiritual retreats.

This was also reported in Biblical Archaeology Review if I'm not mistaken.

This is interesting...what kind of knuckleheads would disagree with a finding like this?

[NJon]

I thought that they had a speculative location on this cave years ago. Maybe I was mistaken.

[Tickle Me Goody]

I don't think the existence of Pilate has ever been seriously questioned- but I could be wrong.

You are correct. I own an old Roman coin minted with his image. Anyone can get these.

See http://biblicalmites.com/

[bandecoot]

You are correct. I own an old Roman coin minted with his image. Anyone can get these.

See http://biblicalmites.com/


GG oh please tell me you did not buy from them. Please please please.

If you did you probably bought a fake. I saw nothing about provenance on that website. There are quite a few workshops in Israel producing such material for tourists.

[Tickle Me Goody]

GG oh please tell me you did not buy from them. Please please please.

If you did you probably bought a fake. I saw nothing about provenance on that website. There are quite a few workshops in Israel producing such material for tourists.

Perhaps you are correct about that site but I got mine from a Jewish friend who does part time archelolgical excavations. Are you attempting to imply that Pilate did not exist and mint coins?

GG

[bandecoot]

Perhaps you are correct about that site but I got mine from a Jewish friend who does part time archelolgical excavations. Are you attempting to imply that Pilate did not exist and mint coins?

GG


Not at all, but that site is not one to be touted.


Your hebrew friend is then skirting the law. But at least you have provenance. Unless of course the site director handed out material from the GOK pile... thats perfectly legit. I have some Mayan jades that came to me via that method.

[Tickle Me Goody]

Not at all, but that site is not one to be touted.

Thanks for the information. I should know better than to cite just any old internet source.


Your hebrew friend is then skirting the law. But at least you have provenance. Unless of course the site director handed out material from the GOK pile... thats perfectly legit. I have some Mayan jades that came to me via that method.

He works officially and turns everything in. He obtains his coins and mine from an authenticated source. I was supposed to get one of those "idols" (some of which are evidentally quite small) also but that never happened.

Anyhow, the coin I have does illustrate that Pilate really existed.

gg

[bandecoot]

Thanks for the information. I should know better than to cite just any old internet source.



He works officially and turns everything in. He obtains his coins and mine from an authenticated source. I was supposed to get one of those "idols" (some of which are evidentally quite small) also but that never happened.

Anyhow, the coin I have does illustrate that Pilate really existed.

gg


Yeah but we knew that.... texts you see. Historian here.


If you want really nice stuff try the British Museum coin gallery. if you can get on the list of people they will sell stuff to you get entire provenaces. when where and by whom and in what strata.

I believe most major Museums have periodic sales of stuff they have examined and dont need. TRy some of the big US Museums.