vestegial organs

[KyleX0rz]

I'm sure this has been brought up before in here, but as an atheist who turned christian not to long ago, I Have a good question I would like to ask and that is.

How do we(christians) explain vestegial organs such as the appendix, hair, coccyx, and wisdom teeth, if God created us?

[learning]

The 'vestegial organs' are not always 'unneeded organs' it just so happens, some of these things, we have not known 'yet' the need for them. For instance, I have read that the appendix is not anymore considered a 'vestegial organ' as the tonsils are not considered that either anymore. I believe both have a way of fighting infection, the appendix is known to have some kind of anti-bacterial thing that it IS good for. If they sometimes get inflamed, THEN it is best to get rid of them, etc. I have read where, years ago, some Doctors actually took out 'some' of people's bowels thinking they were 'vestegial organs' and many people died because of this! They didn't know we need all of our bowel, most of us.

I don't see how you see 'hair' as a vestegial organ, it is part of skin and part of protecting us and keeping us warm, is it not? Now as to wisdom teeth, don't know the answer for that one. I think the coccyx is part of balance, hooks for tendons, muscles, etc. Anyways, I believe whatever is considered 'vestegial organ' probably we just don't know 'yet' the need for it.

[ih8censorship]

kyle are you sure that hair is an organ? anyway thats probly for warmth or something. now, what i think the purpose of wisdom teeth is, is that back when humans were created and after they ate the fruit, they dident brush their teeth. so their baby teeth would have come and gone, and their adult teeth would have rotted, and thats about the time wisdom teeth grew in. weve got proper dental hygene these days, so we dont really need wisdom teeth and they become a nusance because theres no room for them usualy. a lot of organs that we dont know the use of yet could probly be explained in this manner. if your living off the land around you your eating different things than at a mcdonalds, and youd have to fend of disease harder with no doctors.

just because theres no explaination for something doesnt mean it doesnt have one. in the 1800s they thought they knew everything there was to know about science. and look at us today thinking the same basic thing "we know everything cause were so advanced" well lets see in another 100 years.

[anthrogirl]

I'd like to add that different cultures have differing perceptions of anatomy. What may seem biomedically frivolous in Western Medicine may have an important function in other cultural medicines (e.g. Aryuveda, Hmong, or Chinese medicines). Remember that even western science is born through interpretive biases (cultural artifacts), expressed in a system of quantifyable terminologies, and applied in culturally relavent ways. Each culture has it's own "body politic". So just because our Science says that the organ does not bear any purpose--doesn't mean that it bears no meaning.

While "meaning" is a quality that we ascribe to a particular event (or object/symbol), it is nonetheless the architecture with which we construct reality. So to relegate a body part to the "junk pile" of purposeless organs is to violate the wholistic body--one in which the total is not equal to the sum of its parts.

ag

[technomage]

Kyle, one thing you might want to consider ... for all the arguments between creationists and evolutionists, the argument is not a "salvation" issue. No where in your Bible does it say that you will go to hell if you accept evolution as the best explanation of the fossile record, or the "Big Bang" as the best scientific explanation for the observable universe.

Justin

[KyleX0rz]

For instance, I have read that the appendix is not anymore considered a 'vestegial organ' as the tonsils are not considered that either anymore. I believe both have a way of fighting infection, the appendix is known to have some kind of anti-bacterial thing that it IS good for. If they sometimes get inflamed, THEN it is best to get rid of them, etc.
I do know that the appendix works at a really low rate of opperation when it does fight agaisnt infections less than 10% even which doesnt give it an absolute function like the heart. I'm not sure on the tonsils though I will have to look into that.

I don't see how you see 'hair' as a vestegial organ, it is part of skin and part of protecting us and keeping us warm, is it not?
kyle are you sure that hair is an organ? anyway thats probly for warmth or something.
Well I know some people do reffer to it as vestegial it really doesnt serve any purpose, if it were for warmth why not more hair on our bodies? I'm not quite sure actually.


what i think the purpose of wisdom teeth is, is that back when humans were created and after they ate the fruit, they dident brush their teeth. so their baby teeth would have come and gone, and their adult teeth would have rotted, and thats about the time wisdom teeth grew in. weve got proper dental hygene these days, so we dont really need wisdom teeth and they become a nusance because theres no room for them usualy.
I can't really agree with you there...if you take a litteral view of the bible...than you know that most people pre flood lived to these outrageous ages. With that in mind, we would naturally assume they werent vunerable to dieases. Now if they werent vunerable to dieases why would their teeth start to rott away at all? So I see really no substance to that statement.


the argument is not a "salvation" issue.
thank you for reminding me, and that should be the key point it doesnt affect my salvation I just want to know why exactly there is such organs in our body that serve little purpose

[ih8censorship]

ive heard that eyebrows and eylashes are to keep stuff out of your eyes. i have no intrest in removing my eyebrows or eyelashes, but you could experament with it if you wanted to :lol: :tongue:

if you take a litteral view of the bible...than you know that most people pre flood lived to these outrageous ages. With that in mind, we would naturally assume they werent vunerable to dieases.well ok maybey, but how do you know maybey new teeth start to grow around age 180. then you have to remember the law of entropy thats like "everything moves from order to disorder" and not the other way around, so i think theres a good chance there bodys actually aged slower than ours do (maybey because of climate or diet?), so a 900 year old wouldent be too much different than todays 80 year old. i know theres a disease that causes people to age much much faster than there supposed to like in that one movie i think its called "jack" with robin williams. i know its a real disease because i had reletives that had it. so, if that kind of disease exists could there possibly be some thing, wouldent have to be a disease that makes people age slower? and we know that people of certain ages are les suceptible to disease also. i dunno just some stuff to think about.

[geebob]

How do we(christians) explain vestegial organs such as the appendix, hair, coccyx, and wisdom teeth, if God created us?

Some christians say that they are left over from previous ancestral forms. Christians do believe in evolution.

That isn't my position though.

As for the appendix, I've heard that it has been identified not so much as a left over from evolution but a left over from prenatal developement.

For hair, it certainly does perform an aesthetic function. If we are serious about believing that we are the work of the ultimate artist, it is only too possible reasonable that some features are primarily aesthetic.

But hair on our heads for warmth isn't something to dismiss. I hear 80 percent of body heat loss is usually through the head.

[Sparko]

Hair: most warmth is lost through the heat rising up through the top of the head, that is why we have more hair there. for insulation. Keeps the heat in. In summer, it keeps the heat out. It also gives cushion to protect the head against bangs and other injuries.

Hair also serves a purpose in regulating heat and cooling, as it traps sweat in various parts of our bodies. It also works as a visual attractant to the opposite sex (or deterant in some cases)

Wisdom teeth: Even if many people have jaws too small for them now, it doesn't mean that they didn't serve a purpose in the past. Men can undergo micro evolution and change through breeding and diet into people with smaller jaws, taller people, etc. This still does not prove or deny evolution, but fits within a framwork of creation.

[yxboom]

I'm sure this has been brought up before in here, but as an atheist who turned christian not to long ago, I Have a good question I would like to ask and that is.

How do we(christians) explain vestegial organs such as the appendix, hair, coccyx, and wisdom teeth, if God created us?
depends on how much you want to put at stake that modern science is never wrong.

[Benster]

"The 'vestegial organs' are not always 'unneeded organs' it just so happens.."


Right you are. But what about the tail that fetuses have before they are born? They are vestiges of evolution.

[Benster]

"I do know that the appendix works at a really low rate of opperation..."

But the appendix is now believed to have a crucial function in infancy. It provides a culture medium where the immune system can sample the flora (bacteria) in the bowel, so as to learn to produce antibodies for whatever bugs happen to be around.

"Well I know some people do reffer to it as vestegial it really doesnt serve any purpose, if it were for warmth why not more hair on our bodies? I'm not quite sure actually."

Hair still has an important sexual function...especially on the head. It enhances personal appearance, therefore, sexual attractiveness. So, evolution favors it.

There ARE vestigial body parts. The pinky toe, for example. The fetal tail, which used to have a tail around it.

Some are more controlversial: With tools, we don't really need fingernails, though they used to have an important function for fighting. Incidentally, fighting could be the selective pressure that favored left-handedness.

Sorry, Benster, but you, as a non-Christian, cannot post in Christianity 201.

[ekklesias]

Kyle, one thing you might want to consider ... for all the arguments between creationists and evolutionists, the argument is not a "salvation" issue. No where in your Bible does it say that you will go to hell if you accept evolution as the best explanation of the fossile record, or the "Big Bang" as the best scientific explanation for the observable universe.

Justin

You are 100% correct. Whether we believe in creation or evolution has absolutly nothing to do with our salvation, there are a whole lot of things that we can debate that have no bearing whatsoever on our salvation. And my thoughts on the "Big Bang" ----if there was nothing and God said "Let there be--" and BOOOM there it was I'm thinking it might have made a "Big Bang" just a thought