Paradise is promised to suicide bombers, according to the Koran.

[Jude3b]

I have been wondering why so many Muslims are signing up in Iran to be Suicide bombers. I think I have found the reason: Isn't it their only sure way to get to heaven (they think)?

It seems that suicide bombers look to the Koran and Sura 47:7 for the support to do their killings! Don't they believe that the verse promises paradise to those who give their lives in the service of Allah? It states: "As for those who are slain in the cause of (Allah), He will not allow their works to perish... He will admit them to the Paradise He has made known to them."

Isn't it a shame to see all these poor deceived people go to a Devils hell - because they believe such lies?

No murderering suicide bomber will have eternal life! "The ..... murderers...shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone..." (Rev. 21:8 - from the Holy Bible)

[Timothy Leary]

It seems that suicide bombers look to the Koran and Sura 47:7 for the support to do their killings! Don't they believe that the verse promises paradise to those who give their lives in the service of Allah? It states: "As for those who are slain in the cause of (Allah), He will not allow their works to perish... He will admit them to the Paradise He has made known to them."


Sounds similar to "he who saves his life shall lose it, and he who loses his life for my sake, shall gain it" (paraphrase, don't have the exact BCV on hand)

[Krusader]

That's a really sick analogy. You obviously have no grasp of what the Lord Jesus intended when He spoke of "losing" one's life.

The key word in that sura is "slain," and in context was referring to war.

Have you ever been a Muslim?

[Timothy Leary]

That's a really sick analogy. You obviously have no grasp of what the Lord Jesus intended when He spoke of "losing" one's life.

The key word in that sura is "slain," and in context was referring to war.

I'll have to look up both passages in their respective holy books to be sure. But I don't want to go through my closet to find them. Maybe I'll do it on Monday. Seeing as I haven't cleaned my closet since I began this semester, it needs a cleaning.

Have you ever been a Muslim?

No, Have you?

Or even better, do you actually know any Muslims - i.e. in real life? Have you, at the least, met one? Furthermore, have you ever heard of Progressive Muslims?

[Jude3b]

Sounds similar to "he who saves his life shall lose it, and he who loses his life for my sake, shall gain it" (paraphrase, don't have the exact BCV on hand)

No comparison whatsoever at all. Jesus is talking about someone giving their life to Him and letting Him be the Lord of their life. That is way different from singing up to be a murdering suicide bomber and taking the lives of innocent people, because you want to get to paradise and get your 70 virgins.

[kiwimac]

What a crock Jude!

Please note the following:

005.032 On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.

Al-Qur'an, 005.030-032 (Al-Maeda [The Table, The Table Spread])

Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.9

or


049.009 If two parties among the Believers fall into a quarrel, make ye peace between them: but if one of them transgresses beyond bounds against the other, then fight ye (all) against the one that transgresses until it complies with the command of Allah; but if it complies, then make peace between them with justice, and be fair: for Allah loves those who are fair (and just).

Al-Qur'an, 049.009 (Al-Hujraat [The Private Apartments, The Inner Apartments])

Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.9

Or


090.012 And what will explain to thee the path that is steep?-

090.013 (It is:) freeing the bondman;

090.014 Or the giving of food in a day of privation

090.015 To the orphan with claims of relationship,

090.016 Or to the indigent (down) in the dust.

090.017 Then will he be of those who believe, and enjoin patience, (constancy, and self-restraint), and enjoin deeds of kindness and compassion.

090.018 Such are the Companions of the Right Hand.

Al-Qur'an, 090.012-018 (Al-Balad [The City, This Countryside])

Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.9

Let me see justice, mercy, the saving of one life considered as the saving of all humanity, compassion, feeding the poor and oppressed, freeing slaves, deeds of kindness. Sounds hauntingly familiar. Dying for the faith is NOT the sole way into heaven for a Muslim, being a loving, kindly, compassionate soul is equally sure according to the Qu'ran.

As for Surah 47:7


047.004 Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.

047.005 Soon will He guide them and improve their condition,

047.006 And admit them to the Garden which He has announced for them.

047.007 O ye who believe! If ye will aid (the cause of) Allah, He will aid you, and plant your feet firmly.

047.008 But those who reject (Allah),- for them is destruction, and (Allah) will render their deeds astray (from their mark).

047.009 That is because they hate the Revelation of Allah; so He has made their deeds fruitless.

047.010 Do they not travel through the earth, and see what was the End of those before them (who did evil)? Allah brought utter destruction on them, and similar (fates await) those who reject Allah.

047.011 That is because Allah is the Protector of those who believe, but those who reject Allah have no protector.

047.012 Verily Allah will admit those who believe and do righteous deeds, to Gardens beneath which rivers flow; while those who reject Allah will enjoy (this world) and eat as cattle eat; and the Fire will be their abode.


Al-Qur'an, 047.004-013 (Muhammad [Muhammad])

Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.9

Surah 47 was given to the Muslim community in Medina. The Quraish were bent on destroying every bit of the Islamic community which was such a threat to their polytheistic religion. The Muslims in Medina (Yathrib) were a small community of a 1000 or so and are in this Sura being exhorted to take arms against all of the pagan arabs of the Arabian Peninsula in a battle which was to decide whether Islam would survive or perish.

As I have said in other posts, knowing the context of the Sura and its verses can be very helpful.

Kiwimac

[Jude3b]

What a crock Jude!

Please note the following:



Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.9

or



Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.9

Or



Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.9

Let me see justice, mercy, the saving of one life considered as the saving of all humanity, compassion, feeding the poor and oppressed, freeing slaves, deeds of kindness. Sounds hauntingly familiar. Dying for the faith is NOT the sole way into heaven for a Muslim, being a loving, kindly, compassionate soul is equally sure according to the Qu'ran.

As for Surah 47:7




Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.9

Surah 47 was given to the Muslim community in Medina. The Quraish were bent on destroying every bit of the Islamic community which was such a threat to their polytheistic religion. The Muslims in Medina (Yathrib) were a small community of a 1000 or so and are in this Sura being exhorted to take arms against all of the pagan arabs of the Arabian Peninsula in a battle which was to decide whether Islam would survive or perish.

As I have said in other posts, knowing the context of the Sura and its verses can be very helpful.

Kiwimac

Dear Kiwimac:

You did not specifically point out what was wrong with my post. Despite your long quotations.

Is it your position that Islam does not have suicide bombers? Is it your position that 70 virgins in Paradise is not awaiting the Islamic Suicide bombers?

[kiwimac]

You've missed it again.

You said I have been wondering why so many Muslims are signing up in Iran to be Suicide bombers. I think I have found the reason: Isn't it their only sure way to get to heaven (they think)?

To which I answered, NO!

Moreover the suicide bombers may well interpret Sura 47:7 that way but literally millions of other Muslims interpret it to mean the spiritual struggle against evil, the not counting of the cost of following Allah, the call to an inner holiness.

Plain enough?

Your exegesis of the Sura is simply incorrect.

Kiwimac

[Krusader]

No Kiwi, he is not incorrect. You know very well that rewards are promised to those who "fight in the way of Allah," and this surah was written during Mohammed's warfare against Mecca.

Paradise and its houris, wine, flowing rivers, were all used to entice Mohammed's followers to participate in warfare.

For someone who has read the Quran so often, this should be basic.

[Krusader]

No Kiwi, he is not incorrect. You know very well that rewards are promised to those who "fight in the way of Allah," and this surah was written during Mohammed's warfare against Mecca.

Paradise and its houris, wine, flowing rivers, were all used to entice Mohammed's followers to participate in warfare.

For someone who has read the Quran so often, this should be basic.

[Krusader]

No Kiwi, he is not incorrect. You know very well that rewards are promised to those who "fight in the way of Allah," and this surah was written during Mohammed's warfare against Mecca.

Paradise and its houris, wine, flowing rivers, were all used to entice Mohammed's followers to participate in warfare.

For someone who has read the Quran so often, this should be basic.

[Krusader]

I'll have to look up both passages in their respective holy books to be sure. But I don't want to go through my closet to find them. Maybe I'll do it on Monday. Seeing as I haven't cleaned my closet since I began this semester, it needs a cleaning.



No, Have you?

Or even better, do you actually know any Muslims - i.e. in real life? Have you, at the least, met one? Furthermore, have you ever heard of Progressive Muslims?
Actually, I have met many Muslims, having lived in New Jersey. Out here in the west, of course, there are fewer. However, one Muslim client I had ended up attending Church with me.....and went forward to the altar!

[Snarf]

No comparison whatsoever at all. Jesus is talking about someone giving their life to Him and letting Him be the Lord of their life. That is way different from singing up to be a murdering suicide bomber and taking the lives of innocent people, because you want to get to paradise and get your 70 virgins.

Mt. 10
39Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

Preceding verses:
34“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35For I have come to turn “ ‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother, a daughterinlaw against her motherinlaw–
36a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.’[e]

37“Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.

Even Jesus says that He did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 10:39 may be taken literally, since Jesus is talking about actual physical conflict
(28Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell)

Jesus said that those who give up their lives for Him will find life. There's been lots of Christian martyrs in history, and they have the same motivation as Muslim martyrs.

But I forget, Jude thinks it OK for God command His followers to kill homosexuals and adulterers, but it's wrong for Muslims to kill. Apparantly certain Christians don't want competition on the right to kill for God.

[revivalfire]

I have been wondering why so many Muslims are signing up in Iran to be Suicide bombers. I think I have found the reason: Isn't it their only sure way to get to heaven (they think)?

It seems that suicide bombers look to the Koran and Sura 47:7 for the support to do their killings! Don't they believe that the verse promises paradise to those who give their lives in the service of Allah? It states: "As for those who are slain in the cause of (Allah), He will not allow their works to perish... He will admit them to the Paradise He has made known to them."

Isn't it a shame to see all these poor deceived people go to a Devils hell - because they believe such lies?

No murderering suicide bomber will have eternal life! "The ..... murderers...shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone..." (Rev. 21:8 - from the Holy Bible)
You know what's interesting...? They aren't dying for Allah..they are dying for themeselves....they want what they can get..not to further Allah's kingdom...seems to me they are going to be sorely disappointed..

[revivalfire]

Guys, guys, guys.....if you deliberatly kill yourself for your God..that's selfish....you do it to get into his good graces...if someone else comes and kills you because you refuse to reject the one you love...then...in that case..you stand for God......LOGIC...I DEMAND LOGIC....!!! Hehehe....just kidding..

[Jude3b]

You know what's interesting...? They aren't dying for Allah..they are dying for themeselves....they want what they can get..not to further Allah's kingdom...seems to me they are going to be sorely disappointed..

Thats a good point revivalfire.. I think your right.

How horrible it must be to die in vain as a suicide bomber - murdering innocent people - all the time deceived by religion that you are doing it for God. How sad.

[Snarf]

Thats a good point revivalfire.. I think your right.

How horrible it must be to die in vain as a suicide bomber - murdering innocent people - all the time deceived by religion that you are doing it for God. How sad.
Yeah, isn't it better to kill adulterers because God said so in leviticus?
Isn't it better to kill innocent civilians in invasions designed to line the pockets of the rich and fat?

What hypocrisy!

[Jude3b]

No Kiwi, he is not incorrect. You know very well that rewards are promised to those who "fight in the way of Allah," and this surah was written during Mohammed's warfare against Mecca.

Paradise and its houris, wine, flowing rivers, were all used to entice Mohammed's followers to participate in warfare.

For someone who has read the Quran so often, this should be basic.

Thank you Crusader for backing me up on this. Why it has even been written in the secular newspapers - many times - about the Islamic suicide bombers looking forward to paradise and 70 virgins. I have even read numerous times that in Islam - that being a suicide bomber (martyr falsely so-called) is the only assurance they have of getting to paradise. Is that the way you understand it? I wonder what verses from the Koran or Hadith that they get that from, do you know?

[revivalfire]

Yeah, isn't it better to kill adulterers because God said so in leviticus?
Isn't it better to kill innocent civilians in invasions designed to line the pockets of the rich and fat?

What hypocrisy!
When did Christians do the latter? As for the Leviticus statement...God was making way for His chosen people to inherit the promised land that God gave to them.... Why didn't they kill Rahab? She helped them...so that means there was forgivness..and out of her descendants came Christ Himself...so you really can't say it's hypocrisy because there is a difference between what the Muslims do and what Jews and Christians did.....

[Hobbes]

[2:195] You shall spend in the cause of GOD; do not throw yourselves with your own hands into destruction. You shall be charitable; GOD loves the charitable.

[ 4:29] O you who believe, do not consume each others' properties illicitly - only mutually acceptable transactions are permitted. You shall not kill yourselves. GOD is Merciful towards you.

[ 4:30] Anyone who commits these transgressions, maliciously and deliberately, we will condemn him to Hell. This is easy for GOD to do.

[Jude3b]

[2:195] You shall spend in the cause of GOD; do not throw yourselves with your own hands into destruction. You shall be charitable; GOD loves the charitable.

[ 4:29] O you who believe, do not consume each others' properties illicitly - only mutually acceptable transactions are permitted. You shall not kill yourselves. GOD is Merciful towards you.

[ 4:30] Anyone who commits these transgressions, maliciously and deliberately, we will condemn him to Hell. This is easy for GOD to do.

And your point is what?

I looked up verse 4:29 and my copy of the Koran reads "do not kill one another." Which could more correctly mean that one muslim should not kill another. That translation would not forbid a Muslim from being a suicide bomber - if that is the point of your quotes?

Whick leads me to wonder, DOES THE KORAN CONTAIN CONTRADICTORY TEACHINGS?

The Koran claims that it contains no contraditions (Sura 4:84).

Yet, I notice that in Sura 11 the Koran teaches that one of Noah's sons didn't go into the ark and thus "Noah's son was drowned" in the Flood. The Koran itself contradicts this statement in Sura 21, where it declares that "we saved him (Noah) and all his kinsfolk from the great calamity..."

[Krusader]

And your point is what?

I looked up verse 4:29 and my copy of the Koran reads "do not kill one another." Which could more correctly mean that one muslim should not kill another. That translation would not forbid a Muslim from being a suicide bomber - if that is the point of your quotes?

Whick leads me to wonder, DOES THE KORAN CONTAIN CONTRADICTORY TEACHINGS?

The Koran claims that it contains no contraditions (Sura 4:84).

Yet, I notice that in Sura 11 the Koran teaches that one of Noah's sons didn't go into the ark and thus "Noah's son was drowned" in the Flood. The Koran itself contradicts this statement in Sura 21, where it declares that "we saved him (Noah) and all his kinsfolk from the great calamity..."
You are perfectly right. A Muslim must not kill another Muslim, since their blood is of equal value. However, Islamic commentaries assert that Christian or Jewish blood is not of equal value with the Muslim's blood. Hence, the wholesale slaughter of 9/11.

[Timothy Leary]

You are perfectly right. A Muslim must not kill another Muslim, since their blood is of equal value. However, Islamic commentaries assert that Christian or Jewish blood is not of equal value with the Muslim's blood. Hence, the wholesale slaughter of 9/11.

Yes, and famous Christians such as Martin Luther held similar positions, except Jewish and Muslim blood was what was held to be worthless.

[Krusader]

Yes, and famous Christians such as Martin Luther held similar positions, except Jewish and Muslim blood was what was held to be worthless.
Possibly, although Luther spoke for himself and not the Scriptures, which says that God is no respecter of persons, but calls men from every tribe, nation and blood.

Mohammed, on the other hand, taught that Arabian Muslims were "the best of people." Thus, this racist remark has been translated into the superiority of Muslim blood.

Jesus, on the other hand, came for all men - Jew and Gentile. Of course, you are free to ignore his offer of salvation, or accept it if you choose.

[Snarf]

You are perfectly right. A Muslim must not kill another Muslim, since their blood is of equal value. However, Islamic commentaries assert that Christian or Jewish blood is not of equal value with the Muslim's blood. Hence, the wholesale slaughter of 9/11.
Ah yes, the equality of people believed by Christians, like Southern slaveholders and people who believe that African-Americans are inferior to whites.

Crusader, the energy which you put into attacking Muslims is clearly that of one convinced of the superiority of their own creed, your demonization of Muslims reminds one of what Nazis said to discredit Jews.

[revivalfire]

Possibly, although Luther spoke for himself and not the Scriptures, which says that God is no respecter of persons, but calls men from every tribe, nation and blood.

Mohammed, on the other hand, taught that Arabian Muslims were "the best of people." Thus, this racist remark has been translated into the superiority of Muslim blood.

Jesus, on the other hand, came for all men - Jew and Gentile. Of course, you are free to ignore his offer of salvation, or accept it if you choose.
I thought that the Quran says that Prophets can't be rascist? Did Mohammed(once again) disprove his legitimacy?

[Krusader]

Ah yes, the equality of people believed by Christians, like Southern slaveholders and people who believe that African-Americans are inferior to whites.

Crusader, the energy which you put into attacking Muslims is clearly that of one convinced of the superiority of their own creed, your demonization of Muslims reminds one of what Nazis said to discredit Jews.
Yes, and let's not forget that it was Muslims who sold those Africans to slaveholders.

My great,great, great-grandfather died in the battle of Shady Grove attempting to free the slaves. He was a Christian.