OEC vs. YEC - What Does the Bible Say?

[Jason Gastrich]

I'm a YEC and I believe the scriptures teach us the Earth was created in 6 literal days. I also believe that they teach that the Earth is young (e.g. less than 12,000 years old). I'm looking to debate an OEC that believes the scriptures teach that the Earth is old.

Now, science is a different issue. I'm not as interested in discussing what Christian science or even current, secular science says about the age of the Earth; although I could. I'm primarily interested in what the scriptures say and how an OEC could support his/her argument with the Bible.

I'm open to discussing debate parameters. I suggest a 7 round debate with no more than 5,000 words per post and no more than 10 days between posts.

If you wish to read my debate resume/profile, please go here: http://debates.jcsm.org

Do I have any takers?

God bless,
Jason Gastrich

[Jack777]

Answer:

Genesis 1:1 heaven and earth created



some amount of time you decide how much -or- go with chronometric based on astrophysics


Genesis 1:2 earth a waste and barren

Genesis 1:3 beginning of restoration for this round of ages (olam or aion)

[Jason Gastrich]

Hi Jack,

I don't want to assume anything, but is your post an implication that you want to take the OEC side and debate?

Sincerely,
Jason

[Jack777]

I thought I had already won.

[djdavo]

there's a great debate on AIG about this exact topic:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/AnswersMedia/searchProcess.aspx?pg=2&rpp=50&of=&od=

they're both bible believing christians but take differing views. They do talk about scripture,too.

[Calvinist4Him]

:hi: Dr. Jason (do you have a preference as to Dr. or Pastor?)

I'm pleased to see you posting here at Tweb. I have noticed your material at sermonaudio.com. To be honest, I do not download much audio from sermonaudio.com for the lack of quality, most if not all of the audio is 16 kbs, which is disappointing to an audiophile like me. But seeing as your posting at Tweb, I might take the time to listen to some of your recordings (if the metallic echo noise is bearable). :smile: I see you have debated Edward Tabash...I'm impressed. Not too long ago I watched the Bahnsen/Tabash debate on DVD.

I'm a YEC and I believe the scriptures teach us the Earth was created in 6 literal days.

Lately, I've been considering OEC, is is possible for an OEC to also believe the Scriptures teach the earth was created in 6 literal days?

I also believe that they teach that the Earth is young (e.g. less than 12,000 years old). I'm looking to debate an OEC that believes the scriptures teach that the Earth is old.

I hope you find a worthy opponent to debate, if done in a brotherly and edifying manner (as I would expect), I think it would be an interesting debate. The YE-OE issue is one I may never be ready to debate (for lack of study/research). Like others, I've gone back and forth in my thinking and position on the age of the earth issue.

Now, science is a different issue. I'm not as interested in discussing what Christian science or even current, secular science says about the age of the Earth; although I could. I'm primarily interested in what the scriptures say and how an OEC could support his/her argument with the Bible.

It sounds to me like a potential debate would be reduced to your interpretation versus the other person's interpretation of the Scriptures (particularly the word "yom") or to the type of literature ascribed to said Scriptures. It would be interesting to hear both sides give a well thought out exposition of the Scriptures and the reasoning behind the opposing presuppositions.

Anyway, I hope to see you around here more often. :thumb:

[Jason Gastrich]

Hi Apologist,

Thanks for your message. My replies are below.

Dr. Jason (do you have a preference as to Dr. or Pastor?)

You can call me Doctor. I don't use the title of Pastor because I feel it should be reserved for those that pastor a literal flock in a church building and I'm not a pastor.

I'm pleased to see you posting here at Tweb. I have noticed your material at sermonaudio.com. To be honest, I do not download much audio from sermonaudio.com for the lack of quality, most if not all of the audio is 16 kbs, which is disappointing to an audiophile like me. But seeing as your posting at Tweb, I might take the time to listen to some of your recordings (if the metallic echo noise is bearable). I see you have debated Edward Tabash...I'm impressed. Not too long ago I watched the Bahnsen/Tabash debate on DVD.

Yes, Sermon Audio requires their files to be low quality audio files; no music. It is usually ok, though. It's "am radio quality," which doesn't need to be very high.

Yes, I debated Eddie. In fact, I have the audio and a video of it online. See http://debates.jcsm.org for those.

Lately, I've been considering OEC, is is possible for an OEC to also believe the Scriptures teach the earth was created in 6 literal days?

Oh yeah? Why?

Yes, it could be possible for an OEC to believe that the Earth was created in 6 literal days, yet the solar system and the things in it to be billions of years old.

I hope you find a worthy opponent to debate, if done in a brotherly and edifying manner (as I would expect), I think it would be an interesting debate. The YE-OE issue is one I may never be ready to debate (for lack of study/research). Like others, I've gone back and forth in my thinking and position on the age of the earth issue.

I'd still like to debate OEC/YEC, but I'm currently in a debate with atheist author and professor Doug Krueger. You can see it here: http://iidebate5.jcsm.org . Plus, I'm starting a debate on the resurrection this week on another atheist forum.

It sounds to me like a potential debate would be reduced to your interpretation versus the other person's interpretation of the Scriptures (particularly the word "yom") or to the type of literature ascribed to said Scriptures. It would be interesting to hear both sides give a well thought out exposition of the Scriptures and the reasoning behind the opposing presuppositions.

This is a good point. I am interested in the scriptures and the debate would likely center around them and the correct interpretation of them.

Anyway, I hope to see you around here more often.

Thanks. I've been posting in Theology 101 as I read through the gospels. I'll be around.

God bless,
Jason

[lee_merrill]

Hi Jason,

I'd still like to debate OEC/YEC...
I would too, but more as a learning exercise, since I'm not a totally convinced OEC person. Would you like to discuss this with me? I shall be apt to quote Hugh Ross...

... but I'm currently in a debate with atheist author and professor Doug Krueger. You can see it here: http://iidebate5.jcsm.org.
I've been following this one! Got a front-row seat in the peanut gallery, I somehow missed when they came around with the peanuts, though. :stunned:

I appreciate your comments, and wish you well there...

Blessings,
Lee

[Perry]

I would be interested in following your oec/yec debate should you successfully acquire an opponent. I personally think the age of Earth isn't so important. I have no trouble believing it could be 6000 years old. I also would have no trouble believing that perhaps a few generations were left out of the accounts, and man's been around for a few more years than that. I also wouldn't have trouble with the late J.Vernon McGee's theory that when the earth was without form, and void, that it could have been destroyed from a previous creation at that point, and then God began to move on the waters and bring a few things around for a new creation.

The main thing I see that Christians need to take seriously is the flood. It was not local, and it left mucho evidence, and I think many old-earthers go REEAL old, because they do not want to take into account fast major changes that could have happened catastrophically.

And so, if it's psycological shelter from God's judgement being sought, the debate is really about the viability of the flood, rather than the concept of deep time and how long the big ball's been hanging therein.

I still would be intersted in following your yec/oec debate if'm you get it.

[OfficialPro]

Well since the Jewish Calendar says it the year 5,000-something since creation, I think they're not all that far off.

[xtreem5150ahm]

I too, believe that God Created everything about 6k years ago. Maybe this is jumping the gun, but along with the question on the correct interpretation, i think that an important view of the debate would be how OEC can account for:
1. death, disease, destruction before the curse given by God (to Adam and Eve) for Original Sin

2. the order that God's Word puts the created things vs. what secular science says is the order of things i.e. light (day 1) prior to light makers (day 4 - sun, stars), how plants could have been around for long ages (day 3) before a different long age (day 4) when the sun, moon and stars were created--- to give light and heat-- and also before another long age (day 5) when the waters brought forth life-- for the Carbondioxide/Oxygen cycle.

3.justification that, although the first few chapters of Genesis are written with implication to be taken literal, they should actually (if OEC is correct) be taken as some-sort of metaphor.

Anyway, i think these are some of the questions that I would like to see answered if OEC is the correct viewpoint.

Good luck with the debate.
John