The Koran teaches it took Allah eight days to create the world.

[Jude3b]

The Koran in Sura 41:9-12 teaches it took God eight days to create the world, wheras Sura 7:51; 10:3; and 11:6 gook God six days.

How can this Koran be considered the Word of God, when it cannot even tell us how many days it actually took God to create the world?

Seems to me, it is not the Word of God, but rather the words of a man - Muhammad and his god Allah.

[Krusader]

The Koran in Sura 41:9-12 teaches it took God eight days to create the world, wheras Sura 7:51; 10:3; and 11:6 gook God six days.

How can this Koran be considered the Word of God, when it cannot even tell us how many days it actually took God to create the world?

Seems to me, it is not the Word of God, but rather the words of a man - Muhammad and his god Allah.
The same Quran also teaches that the sun actually sets in a muddy stream....also, that a camel was a prophet!

[revivalfire]

WAIT! WAIT! WAIT! Mohammed was telling the truth...it's just that it was eight days before he forgot he said that and it became six days....:lol: :lol: Sheesh..come on now...you guys should know this stuff by now...

[Timothy Leary]

....also, that a camel was a prophet!

You mean like the bible which records a donkey talking to a prophet and a snake convincing a person to eat of a mystical tree?

[Jude3b]

The same Quran also teaches that the sun actually sets in a muddy stream....also, that a camel was a prophet!

Hey Crusader: Can you tell me what verses say that in the Koran? Also, do you know if there is a website that contains an Islamic equivalent to a Concordance - that will allow someone to look things up in the Koran by word or topic?

[technomage]

Now, I've seen more than a few Christians talk about language of appearances.

And was not Balaam's ass a prophet? Did he not give the word of God to Balaam? :wink:

[Krusader]

Now, I've seen more than a few Christians talk about language of appearances.

And was not Balaam's ass a prophet? Did he not give the word of God to Balaam? :wink:

Merry Christmas, Justin. I was pretty sure somebody would bring that up....no, I don't believe the donkey was a prophet, but a vehicle for speech.

Anyway, going to Church on Christmas?

[technomage]

.no, I don't believe the donkey was a prophet, but a vehicle for speech.
Hmmm. Prophecy simply means "speaking of God" or "speaking for God," in the sense of speaking the word God gives one to speak. :shrug: Sounds close enough for me.

Anyway, going to Church on Christmas?
The day after, with my family.

However, Crusader, you did not address the issue of "language of appearance." There are places in the Bible where a literal interpretation is impossible, yet it is frequently assumed that God used the language or description that an author of that time is familiar with--this is commonly called the "language of appearance."

You accept if from the Bible, but condemn it from the Quran? Is that not a double standard?

Justin

[Krusader]

Hmmm. Prophecy simply means "speaking of God" or "speaking for God," in the sense of speaking the word God gives one to speak. :shrug: Sounds close enough for me.


The day after, with my family.

However, Crusader, you did not address the issue of "language of appearance." There are places in the Bible where a literal interpretation is impossible, yet it is frequently assumed that God used the language or description that an author of that time is familiar with--this is commonly called the "language of appearance."

You accept if from the Bible, but condemn it from the Quran? Is that not a double standard?

Justin

If you would give me some examples from the Bible and the Quran, I'll respond. We should remember, looking to the topic of this thread, that the Jews count the week with eight days, I believe.

Hope you enjoy church and Christmas, and remember what the Lord did for you.

[technomage]

If you would give me some examples from the Bible and the Quran, I'll respond.
1: The earth has four corners (Isa 11:12, Rev 7:1)
2: The earth stands still, and cannot be moved (Ps 93:1, further reinforced by Joshua asking the sun to stand still in Josh 10)
3: A rabbit chews it's cud (Lev 11:6)
4: The moon is a light (Gen 1)

Now, less knowledgeable skeptics have been using these arguments for years to prove how "inaccurate" the Bible is--and the standard (and quite correct) response is that these are not scientific descriptions, but simply the "language of appearance"--that's what things look like. The earth does not ahve four corners, that's just an expression. The earth does not stand still with the sun and moon revolving around it, but we still speak of the "sun rising and setting." Rabbits don't actually chew cud, but it sure as heck looks like it. The moon is not a light, but a reflector, but in a dark night sky, it sure looks bright.

Similarly, the sun does not actually set in a muddy spring (by the way, that's Surah 18, aya 86)--this is a metaphor in the Quran for the "farthest west."

Both the Quran and the Bible speak in places of stars that fall (Rev 12:4, Qur 81:11) ... today, we know such speech is a metaphor for meteors, seen in both cultures as an ill omen.

Now, let's be blunt here: like you, I do not accept the Quran as "divine inspiration." But if you are going to condemn the Quran on the grounds of "language of appearance," then you have no logical ground on which to defend the Bible when similar accusations are flung at it ... and there are a heck of a lot more episodes of "language of appearance" in the Bible, if for no other reason that the Bible is a much longer work.

Logic dictates that you must either apply the same standard to both books, or to neither one.

We should remember, looking to the topic of this thread, that the Jews count the week with eight days, I believe.
Say, what? The Jews count the week as having six working days and the Shabbat -- makes seven, last I heard.

Justin

[Krusader]

1: The earth has four corners (Isa 11:12, Rev 7:1)
2: The earth stands still, and cannot be moved (Ps 93:1, further reinforced by Joshua asking the sun to stand still in Josh 10)
3: A rabbit chews it's cud (Lev 11:6)
4: The moon is a light (Gen 1)

Now, less knowledgeable skeptics have been using these arguments for years to prove how "inaccurate" the Bible is--and the standard (and quite correct) response is that these are not scientific descriptions, but simply the "language of appearance"--that's what things look like. The earth does not ahve four corners, that's just an expression. The earth does not stand still with the sun and moon revolving around it, but we still speak of the "sun rising and setting." Rabbits don't actually chew cud, but it sure as heck looks like it. The moon is not a light, but a reflector, but in a dark night sky, it sure looks bright.

Similarly, the sun does not actually set in a muddy spring (by the way, that's Surah 18, aya 86)--this is a metaphor in the Quran for the "farthest west."

Both the Quran and the Bible speak in places of stars that fall (Rev 12:4, Qur 81:11) ... today, we know such speech is a metaphor for meteors, seen in both cultures as an ill omen.

Now, let's be blunt here: like you, I do not accept the Quran as "divine inspiration." But if you are going to condemn the Quran on the grounds of "language of appearance," then you have no logical ground on which to defend the Bible when similar accusations are flung at it ... and there are a heck of a lot more episodes of "language of appearance" in the Bible, if for no other reason that the Bible is a much longer work.

Logic dictates that you must either apply the same standard to both books, or to neither one.


Say, what? The Jews count the week as having six working days and the Shabbat -- makes seven, last I heard.

Justin
No Justin, the eighth day for Jews begins Sunday at Sunset. Count it yourself, it's eight days.

I'm impressed by your scholarship - I really believe the Lord can use you. However, as for me, I wouldn't have chosen to go to BJU - I just think they're too uptight and rigid.

Of course I believe the Bible can speak in metaphors - but I don't see the use of this type of language and imagery in the Quran.

In any case, what I was attempting to say about the "eight days" thing, was that it could have been using this "Jewish" counting system....in other words, cutting the Quran a break.

[technomage]

No Justin, the eighth day for Jews begins Sunday at Sunset. Count it yourself, it's eight days.
Crusader, unless you're talking about Channuka, you've completely lost me. It's right there in Ex 20:8-11; six days to work, one day to rest.

Of course I believe the Bible can speak in metaphors - but I don't see the use of this type of language and imagery in the Quran.
Crusader, I have to wonder how much of that "don't see" is "won't see?" That's not a dig ... it's a serious question.

[Krusader]

Crusader, unless you're talking about Channuka, you've completely lost me. It's right there in Ex 20:8-11; six days to work, one day to rest.


Crusader, I have to wonder how much of that "don't see" is "won't see?" That's not a dig ... it's a serious question.
Justin, since the next day in Jewish reckoning starts at sundown, at sundown on Sunday, Monday begins for the Jews. That's all I was saying. You must have studied this at Bible college.

I don't agree with your "won't see" analogy - rather, I see all too clearly.

In any case, I'm getting tired of bickering about Islam - the results of this belief system we see all too clearly, day after day.

Since Saturday is in honor of Our Lord's birthday, I'd much rather focus on Him.

[Timothy Leary]

Crusader,

I am not aware of any Jewish sects in the last 1500 years (I say 1500 years, because I have studied the various Jewish sects between 500-2000 A.D.) who counted the week on an 8-day basis, but I will ask some more knowledgable than me if it has ever been done (or is practiced by any currently).

[Krusader]

Crusader,

I am not aware of any Jewish sects in the last 1500 years (I say 1500 years, because I have studied the various Jewish sects between 500-2000 A.D.) who counted the week on an 8-day basis, but I will ask some more knowledgable than me if it has ever been done (or is practiced by any currently).
Thank you. I've read this in two Christian commentaries when they are explaining that the Lord Jesus arose on Sunday. Again Thanks.

[revivalfire]

You mean like the bible which records a donkey talking to a prophet and a snake convincing a person to eat of a mystical tree?
I believe that is in the Old Testament..you know..the part you are suppossed to read..and believe?

[Timothy Leary]

Thank you. I've read this in two Christian commentaries when they are explaining that the Lord Jesus arose on Sunday. Again Thanks.

Hi Crusader, if you could pull up the quote, it might help me find who they were refferring to. I sent off a few emaills, and will do a little research myself, but the more I know, the easier it will be to find it :)

[Timothy Leary]

I believe that is in the Old Testament..you know..the part you are suppossed to read..and believe?

I do believe it. I was making a point through a bit of (perhaps poorly used) sarcasm. There is nothing wrong with the ideas that Crusader showed from the Qu'ran, as the Bible has things that are almost the same.

[revivalfire]

I do believe it. I was making a point through a bit of (perhaps poorly used) sarcasm. There is nothing wrong with the ideas that Crusader showed from the Qu'ran, as the Bible has things that are almost the same.
I'm sorry Yoshiyah...I've usually pretty good with sarcasm...but I've found that online it's hard to detect....:sigh: :lol: