Day Of The Lord.. How Many Are There?

[InChristAlways]

I am having a real problem with the wraths in revelation. If the Bible only shows one Great Day of the Lord, why does revelation appear to be showing 3 of them? I look at them as the same event but in that case, one would have to know what the 1000yrs is and the resurrection/rapture is. I am open to any and all views, belive me as this has stumped me and others. (Can't wait to see how the "futurists" look at this) God bless.

This one shows the "grapes of wrath" just after one like a son of man reaps the earth/gathers the elect.

reve 14: 17 Then another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, who had power over fire, and he cried with a loud cry to him who had the sharp sickle, saying, "Thrust in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth, for her grapes are fully ripe." 19 So the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trampled outside the city, and blood came out of the winepress, up to the horses' bridles, for one thousand six hundred furlongs.

This one is the supper of the great God, and appears to be the same event as in Ezekiel 39, the Day God Glorifies Himself.

reve 19:17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, "Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18 "that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all [people,] free and slave, both small and great."

This is the great god-magog war and appears to be the same one as the others and also ezekiel 39!!. The fire coming down out of heaven would appear to be the same fire that burned "babylon", the devil, beast and false prophet up it seems.

reve 20:[i]7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number as the sand of the sea. [i]9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet [are.] And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

ezekiel 39:12 "For seven months the house of Israel will be burying them, in order to cleanse the land. 13 "Indeed all the people of the land will be burying, and they will gain renown for it on the day that I am glorified," says the Lord GOD. 17 " And as for you, son of man, thus says the Lord GOD, 'Speak to every sort of bird and to every beast of the field: "Assemble yourselves and come; Gather together from all sides to My sacrificial meal Which I am sacrificing for you, A great sacrificial meal on the mountains of Israel, That you may eat flesh and drink blood.

[Ted]

InChristAlways,

That was a very perceptive post. You have identified parallels that few ever notice. I’ll amplify a couple. Please forgive the skeletal form of this post.

Ezek 39 IS after the millennium. So is Rev 19. The feast of the birds is in both. But Rev 19:11ff and 20:7ff are both after the millennium Of course, so is 17:12ff. Note the “ten kings” there, and the unified body of the wicked in 20:7-9. They are the same. The fate of Satan in 19:20 is the same in 20:10. The fate of the wicked is the same in 19:21 and 20:12-15.

The millennium is in Ezekiel 38:4, where Satan (Gog) has “hooks in his jaws” that prevent him from doing anything. That is Rev 20:3-4. After this period of restraint, God calls Gog forth (see Rev 20:7ff).

There are, in this context, two Days of the Lord. The first is at the Parousia, when all the wicked are killed and the saints raptured (Matt 24:36-42, 1 Thes 4:13-5:2). After the millennium, the wicked are raised and condemned finally. Their final judgment is executed at that time. Thus, there is a Day of the Lord both before and after the millennium.

In Rev 14, the two harvests are merely the description of the two aspects of the same Day of the Lord. The first is the rapture of the saints, and the second is the destruction of the wicked.

Of course, this ignores the purpose of the millennium. We can discuss that later if we need.

Ted

[Terral]

Hi Ted:
Ted >> There are, in this context, two Days of the Lord. The first is at the Parousia, when all the wicked are killed and the saints raptured (Matt 24:36-42, 1 Thes 4:13-5:2). After the millennium, the wicked are raised and condemned finally. Their final judgment is executed at that time. Thus, there is a Day of the Lord both before and after the millennium.
No sir. There is only one ‘day of the Lord’ that is coming like a ‘thief in the night.’ 1Thes. 5:2. Peter speaks of the judgment part of the day of the Lord, saying,

“But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.”
There is only one final judgment with this old heaven and earth passing away only one time. Peter is not talking about the ‘days’ of the Lord, as there is no plural reference to this day coming anywhere in the Text. The ‘body of Christ’ (Eph. 4:12) is ‘caught up’ (1Thes. 4:17) when the day of Christ is ‘at hand.’ 2Thes. 2:2. The ‘bride’ (John 3:29) is gathered at the end of the same day of the Lord. Matt. 24:31. John is standing in the Spirit on the “Lord’s day” in Revelation 1:10. The end of the same “thousand years” (2Pet. 3:8, Rev. 20:5) ‘day of the Lord’ (2Pet. 3:10) occurs in Rev. 20:11-15 with the Judgment (Matt. 25:31-33). John is describing the same end time events (Matt. 24:3-29) in the battle of Armageddon (Har-Megodon; Rev. 16:16) from various perspectives in the back half of Revelation, as part of the end time events of Matthew 24:3-29.

We know the 'day of the Lord' is still future, because this old heaven and earth are still here.

In Christ,

Terral

[InChristAlways]

Terral No sir. There is only one ‘day of the Lord’ that is coming like a ‘thief in the night.’ 1Thes. 5:2. Peter speaks of the judgment part of the day of the Lord, saying,
InChristAlways,
That was a very perceptive post. You have identified parallels that few ever notice. I’ll amplify a couple. Please forgive the skeletal form of this post.

Ezek 39 IS after the millennium. So is Rev 19. The feast of the birds is in both. But Rev 19:11ff and 20:7ff are both after the millennium Of course, so is 17:12ff. Note the “ten kings” there, and the unified body of the wicked in 20:7-9. They are the same. The fate of Satan in 19:20 is the same in 20:10. The fate of the wicked is the same in 19:21 and 20:12-15.

The millennium is in Ezekiel 38:4, where Satan (Gog) has “hooks in his jaws” that prevent him from doing anything. That is Rev 20:3-4. After this period of restraint, God calls Gog forth (see Rev 20:7ff).

There are, in this context, two Days of the Lord. The first is at the Parousia, when all the wicked are killed and the saints raptured (Matt 24:36-42, 1 Thes 4:13-5:2). After the millennium, the wicked are raised and condemned finally. Their final judgment is executed at that time. Thus, there is a Day of the Lord both before and after the millennium.

In Rev 14, the two harvests are merely the description of the two aspects of the same Day of the Lord. The first is the rapture of the saints, and the second is the destruction of the wicked.

Of course, this ignores the purpose of the millennium. We can discuss that later if we need.

TedHi Ted. Like Terral said, there is only one Great Day of the Lord God Almighty in all of the Bible. If you look at 1 corin 15, Paul does not show a 1000yr period and it follows reve 14 and the olivet discourse, the serperation of the sheep and goats/wheat and tares.
Some of us have viewed the white throne judgement as the same event as the 6th seal in chapt 6:13-17, judgement on the "living dead", one view from heaven, the other from earth. Christ said in Luke 21 that ALL things WRITTEN would be fulfilled on the detruction of Jerusalem. Almost all the OT prophecies are against Judah and Jerusalem(not the "world"), and like CHrist said, salvation was "of" the "jews" and I believe they became His "sacrificial meal" as in Ezekiel 39. Difficult to view it any other way I believe.

I realize it is hard to comprehend what all of revelation is symbolizing, but it appears God is showing us that perhaps more things are fulfilled than we might believe, but like most, we feel the show isn't over until "the fat lady sings". Thanks for the post and it is pretty fascinatning. God bless.

1 corin 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order:

Christ the firstfruits, reve 12:5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne.

afterward those [who are] Christ's at His coming. reve chapt 14:14-16 reaping of the elect, 144000, wheat/sheep

24 Then [comes] the end, reve chapt 14:17-20 destruction of the goats/tares

zeph 1:2 " I will utterly consume everything From the face of the land," Says the LORD; 3 "I will consume man and beast; I will consume the birds of the heavens, The fish of the sea, And the stumbling blocks along with the wicked. I will cut off man from the face of the land," Says the LORD. 4 "I will stretch out My hand against Judah, And against all the inhabitants of Jerusalem. I will cut off every trace of Baal from this place, The names of the idolatrous priests with the [pagan] priests --14 The great day of the LORD [is] near; [It is] near and hastens quickly. The noise of the day of the LORD is bitter; There the mighty men shall cry out. 15 That day [is] a day of wrath, A day of trouble and distress, A day of devastation and desolation, A day of darkness and gloominess, A day of clouds and thick darkness, 16 A day of trumpet and alarm Against the fortified cities And against the high towers.

when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy [that] will be destroyed death. 27 For "He has put all things under His feet." But when He says "all things are put under [Him," it is] evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted.

EZEKIEL 39:12 "For seven months(I believe this is how long it took to "clean up" Jerusalem after the destruction!!) the house of Israel will be burying them in order to cleanse the land. [i]13 "Even all the people of the land will bury them; and it will be to their renown on the day that I glorify Myself," declares the Lord GOD.

Look what happened to the sadducees after Jeruselem, PROCLAIMED AS GOD'S enemy IN THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT and became His footstool OF JUDGEMENT

The Sadducees rejected the concept of resurrection, because it was considered of pagan foreign origin. They followed the ancient Jewish beliefs about Sheol as they were before Greek influence modified them. They also did not believe in fate, in demons or in angels. The Sadducees believed that God would reward the righteous and punish the wicked during their lifetime on earth. They were in charge of the Temple and its rituals. They felt that as long as animal sacrifices and other rituals were continued in Jerusalem, that Israel would continue without major disasters. After the Roman army attacked and destroyed the Temple and the rest of Jerusalem in 70 CE, they were bitterly disillusioned. They ceased to exist as a cohesive group shortly afterwards. By the end of the 1st century CE, they had essentially disappeared.

[Terral]

Hi InChrist:
InChrist To Ted >> Like Terral said, there is only one Great Day of the Lord God Almighty in all of the Bible. If you look at 1 corin 15, Paul does not show a 1000yr period and it follows reve 14 and the olivet discourse, the serperation of the sheep and goats/wheat and tares.
I believe you will benefit by revising your use of Paul’s statements in 1Corinthians to include a much broader scope that your current view allows. Paul is not going to show a 1000 year period in his ‘all in all’ (1Cor. 15:28) teaching to the Corinthians, which extends throughout the ‘ages to come.’ Eph. 2:7. Paul’s reference to the last enemy (death) being abolished is not the same ‘death’ of Revelation 20:14 going into the lake of fire. Note that the second death remains during the new heavens and the new earth.

"But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
The key is that there is no such thing as death ‘in’ Christ Jesus. For one to be beyond the grasp of ‘death’ in the ages to come, then he must be found ‘in’ Christ. The subjection of ‘all things’ to Christ shall be part of the summing up process (Eph. 1:9+10) of everything seen and unseen in this universe, which shall continue for the ages to come. John is describing the end time events that shall take place at the end of this current ‘evil age’ (Gal. 1:4) where Satan and his bad guys are passing away. Rev. 1-20:15 [ day of the Lord ]. New Jerusalem (Rev. 21:1+) is part of the ‘ages to come’ landscape, and the central administration (Eph. 1:9+10, 3:9) hub for the perpetuation of this summing up process. All believers shall stand in New Jerusalem and hold the Preterist view that everything in Matthew 24 (and Rev. 1-20:15) have already been fulfilled. Therefore, Paul is telling the Corinthians about the ‘end of time,’ in his ‘all in all’ teaching of 1Cor. 15, while John is describing events to the ‘end of the age.’

In Christ,

Terral

[InChristAlways]

I believe you will benefit by revising your use of Paul’s statements in 1Corinthians to include a much broader scope that your current view allows. Paul is not going to show a 1000 year period in his ‘all in all’ (1Cor. 15:28) teaching to the Corinthians, which extends throughout the ‘ages to come.’ Eph. 2:7. Paul’s reference to the last enemy (death) being abolished is not the same ‘death’ of Revelation 20:14 going into the lake of fire. Note that the second death remains during the new heavens and the new earth.Have you studied on the parable of the rich man and Lazarus? It is also about revelation and is almost identical to jeremiah 17 and we know the "lake of fire" is symbolic of testing and trying. The Cross is the great gulf that seperated the rich man from lazarus in Abraham's bosom.
Note the burning anger of God against earthly "Judah" would burn forever!!! That is why after 70ad, there is no more jew or gentile, just "christian", those born again in Christ. God bless.


http://users.aristotle.net/~bhuie/lazarus.htm

LUKE 16:27 "Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.'" (NKJV)


Yielding himself to his destiny, the rich man asks one more thing of his forefather Abraham. He pleads with him to send someone to warn his brothers, so that they may escape "this place of torment" (basanou), the testing and punishment that he was undergoing.

The fact that the rich man has five brothers is a vital clue to his true symbolic identity. Judah was the son of Jacob through Leah (Gen. 29:35). He had five full-blooded brothers: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, and Zebulun (Gen. 35:23).
While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Christ was speaking. They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage. Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who He was referring to with this parable. This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the house of Judah, the Jews!

Jeremiah 17:1 "The sin of Judah written with a pen of iron; With the point of a diamond [it is] engraved On the tablet of their heart, And on the horns of your altars, [i]2 While their children remember Their altars and their wooden images By the green trees on the high hills. 3 O My mountain in the field, I will give as plunder your wealth, all your treasures, [And] your high places of sin within all your borders. 4 And you, even yourself, Shall let go of your heritage which I gave you; And I will cause you to serve your enemies In the land which you do not know; For you have kindled a fire in My anger [which] shall burn forever."

[Ted]

Hi Ted. Like Terral said, there is only one Great Day of the Lord God Almighty in all of the Bible. If you look at 1 corin 15, Paul does not show a 1000yr period and it follows reve 14 and the olivet discourse, the serperation of the sheep and goats/wheat and tares.
In another thread I pointed out that Paul does not discuss the millennium directly because that doesn’t fit his purposes. But if you look at my prior post, I made a point of saying “in this context.” I had specifically developed the millennium to show that we could call the destruction of the wicked after the millennium as a Day of the Lord. That said, it isn’t called that by name, but it shares characteristics with it.

If we restrict ourselves to events called the “day of the Lord” by name, then you are right, there is only one, and it is identical with the parousia. But please be careful. Historically, there have been a few. One specific example is the destruction of Jerusalem in 586BC described in Joel. We see that passage being used in the NT prophetically, but it was also an OT reality. So the real issue is the wording of both the question and the answers. There is ambiguity in both so far.

Paul’s reference to the last enemy (death) being abolished is not the same ‘death’ of Revelation 20:14 going into the lake of fire. Note that the second death remains during the new heavens and the new earth.
Revelation 21:8 showing The Second Death Remains
"But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

Terral, you err here. That statement is a parenthetical. John is reminding his readers about their ultimate fate if they reject God. He does the same thing in 18:4-5. (Actually, John is receiving the parenthetical message.) There is no lake of fire in the New Jerusalem. That is a symbolic description of the death of an adulterous daughter of a priest (cf. Lev 21:9). That happens outside the camp, and would be outside Jerusalem.

Because John’s statement is parenthetical, it is present tense to his hearers, and has no temporal relationship to the statements around it.

The key is that there is no such thing as death ‘in’ Christ Jesus. For one to be beyond the grasp of ‘death’ in the ages to come, then he must be found ‘in’ Christ.
You are correct as far as you go. But the comment in Rev 21:8 is speaking of those who are not in Christ.

the "lake of fire" is symbolic of testing and trying
InChristAlways, I think you should look at Lev 21:9 and Rev 17-18 before you jump to that conclusion.

The fact that the rich man has five brothers is a vital clue to his true symbolic identity. Judah was the son of Jacob through Leah (Gen. 29:35). He had five full-blooded brothers: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, and Zebulun (Gen. 35:23).
While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Christ was speaking. They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage. Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who He was referring to with this parable. This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the house of Judah, the Jews!
That’s an interesting observation. And it’s one that rabbis might very well make. I’d like to see if there is any Talmudic commentary that would illuminate the story. I’d be careful about applying Jer 17 to Jesus’ day and after. It specifically applies to the Babylonian captivity.

Ted

[InChristAlways]

The fact that the rich man has five brothers is a vital clue to his true symbolic identity. Judah was the son of Jacob through Leah (Gen. 29:35). He had five full-blooded brothers: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, and Zebulun (Gen. 35:23).




While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Christ was speaking. They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage. Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who He was referring to with this parable. This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the house of Judah, the Jews!




That’s an interesting observation. And it’s one that rabbis might very well make. I’d like to see if there is any Talmudic commentary that would illuminate the story. I’d be careful about applying Jer 17 to Jesus’ day and after. It specifically applies to the Babylonian captivity
Hi Ted. The Sin of Judah is mentioned in Jeremiah, and I believe it "might" concern the future crucifixion of Jesus but not sure. We know almost all the prophecies in the OT are regarding Judah and Jerusalem, not Israel and it also shows they LOSE THEIR HERITAGE!!>
Anyway, here is the link to the commentary this guy made on the parable, and also if you will notice, the smoke of the Great City in revelation is going up forever. Symbolic yes, but just as some are talking about false prophecies in the bible, one reason is they fail to see the symbolic and spiritual nature of the Book itself I believe.
I studied on the rich man and lazarus and it help me to actually understand more of revelation itself along with jeremiah 17. Just as the smoke of the Great City goes up "forever", so does God's anger burn forever for Judah. I just use this as an example brother and not saying I am right in my interpretion, but I feel it is biblical. God bless.

http://users.aristotle.net/~bhuie/lazarus.htm

Jeremiah 17:1 "The sin of Judah written with a pen of iron; With the point of a diamond [it is] engraved On the tablet of their heart, And on the horns of your altars, [i]2 While their children remember Their altars and their wooden images By the green trees on the high hills. 3 O My mountain in the field, I will give as plunder your wealth, all your treasures, [And] your high places of sin within all your borders. 4 And you, even yourself, Shall let go of your heritage which I gave you; And I will cause you to serve your enemies In the land which you do not know; For you have kindled a fire in My anger [which] shall burn forever."

zech 4:7 'Who [are] you, O great mountain? Before Zerubbabel [you shall become] a plain! And he shall bring forth the capstone With shouts of "Grace, grace to it!" ' "

reve 18:9 " The kings of the earth who committed fornication and lived luxuriously with her will weep and lament for her, when they see the smoke of her burning, 10 "standing at a distance for fear of her torment, saying, 'Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! For in one hour your judgment has come.'

reve 19:3 Again they said, "Alleluia! Her smoke rises up forever and ever!"

LUKE 16:19 "There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day."

reve 18:16 "and saying, 'Alas, alas, that great city that was clothed in fine linen, purple, and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls!

Exodus 26:1 "Moreover you shall make the tabernacle [with] ten curtains [of] fine woven linen and blue, purple, and scarlet [thread;] with artistic designs of cherubim you shall weave them.

[Ted]

ICA,

Please be careful with “forever,” especially in the OT. The Hebrew word is olam, and is perhaps best translated “throughout.” If we take Jer 17:4 literally, God will be angry with Judah forever, even in the earth made new. That’s not exactly sensible. But if we take it as “throughout,” then we can say “throughout what?” and make some sense of it. The same word is used of the indentured servant who chooses to stay with his master after his servitude is completed (Exod 21:5-6). He is to serve him olam. A number of translations render this “forever.” The NAS makes it “permanently.” It doesn’t make sense to say “forever,” since the servant will die. How can he serve after he dies?

The site you reference is quite good.

The linkage of purple, fine linen, and scarlet (Luke 16:19, Exod 26:1, and Rev 18:16) is a good insight that I will be using. But note that in Rev 18, the harlot so dressed suffers the penalty of the adulterous daughter of the priest. That’s an interesting juxtaposition. Let’s look at a similar expression: the “daughter of Jerusalem.”

That expression appears approvingly in the response to Hezekiah’s prayer for deliverance from Sennacherib in Isa 37:22 (cf. 2 Ki 19:21). It is also used approvingly in Micah 4:8, Zeph 3:14, and Zech 9:9 in prophecies of deliverance.

The same expression is seen in a prophecy of condemnation for idolatry in Lamentations 2:13, 15.

The parallel term “daughter of Zion” appears many times. Sometimes it is the “virgin daughter” or the “captive daughter” and is approved. Other times it is just “daughter,” and can be used either way. Sometime “she” is wicked and condemned (Isa 10:32, 16:1, Jer 5:2, Lam 1:6, 2:1).

If we see the image of Rev 18:16 in the context you have started and I have expanded, then it is the final punishment for idolatry of those who were chosen to be God’s priests. The term daughter of Zion is broader than just the feminine, and generally seems to apply to all of God’s people. When they apostatize, condemnation follows, and it is figuratively described as burning the adulterous daughter of a priest. Of course, that was done outside the camp, and that is where the lake of fire is. It’s no accident that the saints are described as being in a “camp” in Rev 20:9. This is imagery from Exodus, and fits the motif of Revelation, which is exodus from Egypt. Further, the lake of fire (burning of the adulterous daughter!) is “outside the camp.”

Ted

[InChristAlways]

Thanks for the response Ted. But even though it says that God's anger would burn forever doesn't mean it will literally burn "forever", but I think it means more of burning until they come to the Cross of Christ of which the house of Judah did hand Christ over to be crucified (in fact, Judas means Judah, the one who betrayed Christ and is also symbolic and an OT prophecy come true).

Anyway, this has gotten a little of topic I think but interesting. God bless.

I am having a real problem with the wraths in revelation. If the Bible only shows one Great Day of the Lord, why does revelation appear to be showing 3 of them? I look at them as the same event but in that case, one would have to know what the 1000yrs is and the resurrection/rapture is. I am open to any and all views, belive me as this has stumped me and others. (Can't wait to see how the "futurists" look at this) God bless.

This one shows the "grapes of wrath" just after one like a son of man reaps the earth/gathers the elect.

reve 14: 17 Then another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, who had power over fire, and he cried with a loud cry to him who had the sharp sickle, saying, "Thrust in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth, for her grapes are fully ripe." 19 So the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trampled outside the city, and blood came out of the winepress, up to the horses' bridles, for one thousand six hundred furlongs.

This one is the supper of the great God, and appears to be the same event as in Ezekiel 39, the Day God Glorifies Himself.

reve 19:17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, "Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18 "that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all [people,] free and slave, both small and great."

This is the great god-magog war and appears to be the same one as the others and also ezekiel 39!!. The fire coming down out of heaven would appear to be the same fire that burned "babylon", the devil, beast and false prophet up it seems.

reve 20:[i]7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number as the sand of the sea. [i]9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet [are.] And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

ezekiel 39:12 "For seven months the house of Israel will be burying them, in order to cleanse the land. 13 "Indeed all the people of the land will be burying, and they will gain renown for it on the day that I am glorified," says the Lord GOD. 17 " And as for you, son of man, thus says the Lord GOD, 'Speak to every sort of bird and to every beast of the field: "Assemble yourselves and come; Gather together from all sides to My sacrificial meal Which I am sacrificing for you, A great sacrificial meal on the mountains of Israel, That you may eat flesh and drink blood.

[Ted]

ICA,

Let me add to your list of wraths in Revelation. The seventh Seal, Trumpet, and Bowl are also the Day of the Lord, since they include earthquakes, lightning, and hail, one of God’s weapons against His enemies.

The fact is, they are all describing the same thing. They aren’t three, they are one. Revelation is an Apocalypse, a specific Jewish style of writing with numerous recapitulations. I describe this in detail in http://www.bibleonly.org/proph/rev/macro.html. The scene in chapter 14 is another recapitulation, so the two harvests there are two sides of the Day of the Lord. Go to 1 Thes 4:13-5:2. You will see the same two sides. The first side is the rescue of the saints. The second is the destruction of the wicked. It’s the same day.

But the scenes in Rev 17-20 aren’t the same. They are recapitulations of a final judgment after the millennium. Thus, in a way, there can be said to be a Day of the Lord at the parousia before the millennium, and a Day of the Lord at the end of the millennium. There are only two. The language is similar.

Ted

[spiritmech]

I'm not sure Gog and Magog at the end of the millenium can be classified as a Day of the Lord. Part of the nature of a "Day of the Lord" is judgement on Israel according to the promises of blessing/cursing in Deuteronomy.

Gog and Magog is entirely different because the King is reigning, the law is written on the hearts of believers, and God protects the city, rather than destroys it.

SM

[InChristAlways]

I'm not sure Gog and Magog at the end of the millenium can be classified as a Day of the Lord. Part of the nature of a "Day of the Lord" is judgement on Israel according to the promises of blessing/cursing in Deuteronomy.

Gog and Magog is entirely different because the King is reigning, the law is written on the hearts of believers, and God protects the city, rather than destroys it.

SMCould it be the "spiritual city" of the saints as they would be devinely protected by God during any wraths, though they are shown going thru the tribulation. The saints were literally "judges" while they were on the earth it seems.
Ezekiel shows several years of cleanup in the land, so it has to be the "same" event as chapt 14 and 19, and appears to be more of a short description of the events and it doesn't appear to be a worldwide event, but a "local" event. I just feel the first century parousia and judgement on Israel is the day God glorified Himself through that event, though this is my view right now.
It all depends on what that 1000yr, "first resurrection" and the new jerusalem is representing. Thanks and God bless.

reve 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs [coming] out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, [which] go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

ezekiel 39:9 " Then those who dwell in the cities of Israel will go out and set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and bucklers, the bows and arrows, the javelins and spears; and they will make fires with them for seven years.................. 12 "For seven months the house of Israel will be burying them, in order to cleanse the land. 13 "Indeed all the people of the land will be burying, and they will gain renown for it on the day that I am glorified," says the Lord GOD. 17 " And as for you, son of man, thus says the Lord GOD, 'Speak to every sort of bird and to every beast of the field: "Assemble yourselves and come; Gather together from all sides to My sacrificial meal Which I am sacrificing for you, A great sacrificial meal on the mountains of Israel, That you may eat flesh and drink blood.

reve 19:17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, "Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18 "that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains,

[Ted]

SpiritMech,

You are right in a technical sense. After all, the DOL has two aspects, and the post-millennial destruction of the wicked really doesn't have a rescue of the saints. But... In Rev 20:7ff, we do see protection of the camp of the saints. So whether it's a DOL really depends on how tightly you write the definition.

Ted

[spiritmech]

SpiritMech,

You are right in a technical sense. After all, the DOL has two aspects, and the post-millennial destruction of the wicked really doesn't have a rescue of the saints. But... In Rev 20:7ff, we do see protection of the camp of the saints. So whether it's a DOL really depends on how tightly you write the definition.

Ted

Yes how large is a Day of the Lord? Is it just the judgement? Or is it the entire cycle of:

1. Idolatry
2. Judgement
3. Repentance
4. Restoration

I have heard a case (from a futurist POV) for the larger, pointing to Joel as the supposed source for this definition of DOL.

Thanks,
SM

[InChristAlways]

Yes how large is a Day of the Lord? Is it just the judgement? Or is it the entire cycle of:

1. Idolatry
2. Judgement
3. Repentance
4. Restoration

I have heard a case (from a futurist POV) for the larger, pointing to Joel as the supposed source for this definition of DOL.

Thanks,
SMWhatever day it is, it is upon a Great Holy City called babylon. But is the day of the Lord the first day untill it ends? Either way, I still don't see how the supper of the Great God in revelation 19(sacrificial meal of ezekiel 39?) and Gog-Magog in chapt 20 can be different events.
Preterists and futurists alike are in a predicament explaining this as there can't be 2 DoL events I don't think. That 1000yrs could be symbolically "one day", the day of the reaping of the elect and the start of the wraths on the wicked(which I believe might be the "locust" being let out for "5 months").
I really don't know, but we know the 1000yr is symbolical for a period of time and why couldn't 1000yr be that "Day"? Revelation is without a doubt against Israel and Jerusalem.

Joel 2:1 Blow the trumpet in Zion, And sound an alarm in My holy mountain! Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble; For the day of the LORD is coming, For it is at hand: 2 A day of darkness and gloominess, A day of clouds and thick darkness, Like the morning [clouds] spread over the mountains. A people [come,] great and strong, The like of whom has never been; Nor will there ever be any [such] after them, Even for many successive generations. 3 A fire devours before them, And behind them a flame burns; The land like the Garden of Eden before them, And behind them a desolate wilderness; Surely nothing shall escape them.

[i]zeph 1:14 The great day of the LORD [is] near; near and hastens quickly. The noise of the day of the LORD is bitter; There the mighty men shall cry out. [i]15 That day a day of wrath, A day of trouble and distress, A day of devastation and desolation, A day of darkness and gloominess, A day of clouds and thick darkness, [i]16 A day of trumpet and alarm Against the fortified cities And against the high towers. 17 "I will bring distress upon men, And they shall walk like blind men, Because they have sinned against the LORD; Their blood shall be poured out like dust, And their flesh like refuse."

Hosea 8:14 "For Israel has forgotten his Maker, And has built temples; Judah also has multiplied fortified cities; But I will send fire upon his cities, And it shall devour his palaces."

[spiritmech]

InChristAlways: "Either way, I still don't see how the supper of the Great God in revelation 19(sacrificial meal of ezekiel 39?) and Gog-Magog in chapt 20 can be different events."

Interesting point. Let me reread some stuff and get back to you on this. I hadn't made that connection.
SM

[spiritmech]

InChristAlways: "Either way, I still don't see how the supper of the Great God in revelation 19(sacrificial meal of ezekiel 39?) and Gog-Magog in chapt 20 can be different events."

Interesting point. Let me reread some stuff and get back to you on this. I hadn't made that connection.
SM


Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Okay I can see how you get that now. It may be the same battle, I'm not sure.
SM

[InChristAlways]

Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Okay I can see how you get that now. It may be the same battle, I'm not sure.
SMHi SM,
I have been studying revelation on my own for about 6 months, and spent weeks translating it, and that was difficult in itself because of the spiritual symbolicalness of it.
The one thing that I found was not only are the 3 wraths events the same, but the "white throne" judgement appears to be the "same event" as the 6th seal, one view from heaven, the other from earth. Reve chapt 14 is both the reaping of the elect and wrath on the wicked, and shows that it is "jews"(isaiah 5) the wraths are upon.
Preterists really have a problem with Luke 21 that they can't avoid and because of the way I have viewed revelation, including the 1000yrs and "first resurrection", I may join the camp of full fillment and not post here anymore as it is hard enough trying to refute "futurists/zionists dispensationalists" with scripture and yet saying Jesus was lying to His people in luke 21(that would take care of the "that generation" problem.
Anyway, I will probably post in the unorthodox section as the more I study revelation, the more I see Luke 21 was indeed fulfilled with the first century destruction of jerusalem. The "labels" for doctrines should be: partial futurist, full futurists or just plain preterists as partial preterists is no different than partial "futurists" is seems. God bless.

Luke 21:21 "Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 "For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

Luke 23:29 "For indeed the days are coming in which they will say, 'Blessed [are] the barren, wombs that never bore, and breasts which never nursed!' 30 "Then they will begin 'to say to the mountains, "Fall on us!" and to the hills, "Cover us!" '

reve 6:14 Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. 15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 "For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"

reve 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth("mountain/island?) and the heaven(sky?) fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standingbefore God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is [the Book] of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

[Terral]

InChrist:
InChrist >> Anyway, I will probably post in the unorthodox section as the more I study revelation, the more I see Luke 21 was indeed fulfilled with the first century destruction of jerusalem.

What are you talking about? Either the events of Luke 21 (Matt. 24) are already fulfilled (Preterist view) or they are still future (everybody else). Please demonstrate how these things were fulfilled: All of the signs are to take place, “until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.” (Luke 21:24).

What makes you believe that the ‘times of the Gentiles’ were fulfilled 2000 years ago, when even the Roman Empire endured for hundreds of years after 70 Ad., and shall be revived again? What you are saying is the exact opposite of what Scripture is saying. If the ‘times of the Gentiles’ came to an end in 70 Ad, then the kingdom of Israel would have been restored THEN. What about these things?

“There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves, men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.”
Those ‘end of the age’ (Matt. 24:3-31) events are all future. The first ‘beast’ of Revelation 13 is the ‘man of sin’ (2Thes. 2:3+4) using the Temple of God to deceive everybody into believing he is God Himself. That is the ‘abomination of desolation’ that Christ is talking about in Matthew 24:15. The Kingdom of Israel must be restored, when Elijah comes to restore all things FIRST (Matt. 17:10+11), before the antichrist can come and make the restored kingdom desolate. Since the ‘kingdom’ was never restored to Israel, then the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 Ad cannot pass for the fulfillment of those Prophecies. They were a disobedient nation being separated from the land, and not a faithful kingdom coming under attack. Every wind of doctrine that passes by, InChrist, and you go head over heals and into the ditch. GL with that . . .

In Christ,

Terral

[InChristAlways]

Hi Terral,

Could you please stay on the topic of this thread as "dispensationalism" is a false doctrine to me and why I try to avoid discussing it. I want discussions on the 3 different "endtime" events shown in revelation.
Anyway, it with nice talking to you again but this is my last post here. Thanks. God bless.

[Terral]

InChrist:
InChrist >> Could you please stay on the topic of this thread and it with nice talking to you again but this is my last post here. Thanks. God bless.
My response above was made to your statements to me. Shall I ignore your statements in the debate or answer them? The answer to your Topic Question is “one,” as we have already determined from the start. If your desire is to kill this thread, then I shall honor your request . . .

In Christ,

Terral

[InChristAlways]

Bump for discussion
Zephaniah 1:1 The word of the LORD which came to Zephaniah the son of Cushi, the son of Gedaliah, the son of Amariah, the son of Hezekiah, in the days of Josiah the son of Amon, king of Judah. 2 " I will utterly consume everything From the face of the land," Says the LORD; 3 "I will consume man and beast; I will consume the birds of the heavens, The fish of the sea, And the stumbling blocks along with the wicked. I will cut off man from the face of the land," Says the LORD. 4 "I will stretch out My hand against Judah, And against all the inhabitants of Jerusalem. I will cut off every trace of Baal from this place, The names of the idolatrous priests with the [pagan] priests --
I am having a real problem with the wraths in revelation. If the Bible only shows one Great Day of the Lord, why does revelation appear to be showing 3 of them? I am open to any and all views from all "bible scholars, as this has stumped me and others. Please describe each event and show me bibilcally which one is the Day of the Lord. Thanks. God bless.

This one shows the "grapes of wrath" just after one like a son of man reaps the earth/gathers the elect.

reve 14: 17 Then another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, who had power over fire, and he cried with a loud cry to him who had the sharp sickle, saying, "Thrust in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth, for her grapes are fully ripe." 19 So the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trampled outside the city, and blood came out of the winepress, up to the horses' bridles, for one thousand six hundred furlongs.

This one is the supper of the great God, and appears to be the same event as in Ezekiel 39, the Day God Glorifies Himself.

reve 19:17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, "Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18 "that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all [people,] free and slave, both small and great."

This is the great god-magog war and appears to be the same one as the others and also ezekiel 39!!. The fire coming down out of heaven would appear to be the same fire that burned "babylon", the devil, beast and false prophet up it seems.

reve 20:[i]7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number as the sand of the sea. [i]9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet [are.] And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

This is the Great Day when God glorifies Himself.

ezekiel 39:12 "For seven months the house of Israel will be burying them, in order to cleanse the land. 13 "Indeed all the people of the land will be burying, and they will gain renown for it on the day that I am glorified," says the Lord GOD. 17 " And as for you, son of man, thus says the Lord GOD, 'Speak to every sort of bird and to every beast of the field: "Assemble yourselves and come; Gather together from all sides to My sacrificial meal Which I am sacrificing for you, A great sacrificial meal on the mountains of Israel, That you may eat flesh and drink blood.

[Trout]

Please read and follow the forum guidelines:

End time -isms within orthodox Christianity also discussed here. Clearly unorthodox doctrines, such as those advocating "pantelism/full preterism/Neo-Hymenaeanism" or the denial of any essential of the historic Christian faith are not permitted in this section but can be discussed in Comparative Religions 101 without restriction. Any such threads, as well as any that within the moderator's discretions fall outside mainstream evangelical belief, will be moved to the appropriate area.

[Makarios]

For what it's worth:

[There are] various mentions of "the day of the Lord' are referred to in Scripture. The general sense in all places is 'divine visitation in judgment"; the specific referent might be upon Babylon (cp. Isa. 13:1 with 1:6,9), Egypt (cp. Jer. 46:8, with 46:10), Israel (cp. Joel 1:2 with 1:1 5; cp. Zeph. 1:1,2,4 with 1:7), or on the world at large (2 Pet. 3:10). (From an article by Ken Gentry)

[InChristAlways]

For what it's worth:

[There are] various mentions of "the day of the Lord' are referred to in Scripture. The general sense in all places is 'divine visitation in judgment"; the specific referent might be upon Babylon (cp. Isa. 13:1 with 1:6,9), Egypt (cp. Jer. 46:8, with 46:10), Israel (cp. Joel 1:2 with 1:1 5; cp. Zeph. 1:1,2,4 with 1:7), or on the world at large (2 Pet. 3:10). (From an article by Ken Gentry)I would just like to quote these passages from the Bible, with no view from me on them, concerning the Great Day of the Lord God Almighty. God bless.

reve 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs [coming] out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, [which] go out to the kings of the earth("land") and of the whole "world"(#3625), to gather them to the battle of that GREAT DAY of GOD ALMIGHTY.

Revelation 7:1 After these things I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, on the sea, or on any tree.


Revelation 20:8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number as the sand of the sea.

Ezekiel 7:1 Moreover the word of the LORD came to me, saying, [i]2 "And you, son of man, thus says the Lord GOD to the land of Israel: 'An end! The End has come upon the four corners of the land. 3 Now the End [has come] upon you, And I will send My anger against you; I will judge you according to your ways, And I will repay you for all your abominations.

ezekiel 27:26 Your oarsmen brought you into many waters, But the east wind broke you in the midst of the seas.

Revelation 16:12 Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared.

reve 17:16 "And the ten horns/KINGS which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire.