END TIMES Forum (Tsunami Disaster - Wrath of God?)

[Systemofastef]

I don't know if many Christians are wondering about the obvious signs of the End of Times. Clearly, it is showing in every aspect of our daily lives. Morality, Faith being at an all time low, Wars and rumors of wars, Men as lovers of themselves and material things, Natural disasters. The tsunami that just recently occured, maybe God's way of warning of his arrival? I think so. Jesus stated that earthquakes would be a major natural disaster sign in his comming again. 9.0 - cant really ignore that, plus all the thousands and thousands dead.

Jesus (God) said that the signs would be evident and obvious for those who looked. I believe that we are in the most prophecized time that the Bible states. The End Times. I would like to open up this topic for discussion because I know about the events that will be occuring prior to the rapture; the signs. And of the times after; tribulation, judgements, new heaven and new earth, 1000 years of peace, the great white throne judgement (judgement of the ones who dwell in hell). And all that jazz.

So just ask if you have a question or just want to state your opinion
^-^

^.^ Pet the bunny ---> :bunny:

[Richbee]

Naw, we need Hollywood and Casro Street, San Francisco to slide into the Sea after a few 10's.

This is a test from God, to see if we are pay attention.

I agree with Bill Clinton, this is a chance to bring people together and open up these countries. (including the Gospel of Jesus Christ - there 600 dialects in Indonesia and the Gospel needs to be preached to all, before the second coming IMHO.)

[Systemofastef]

That is also another prophecy stated in the Bible, which you might have heard, that before the second comming the Word of God must be spread throughout nations. I don't think anytime but now is more prepared to send the Word of God to others. I mean, look at all the resources; TV, Internet, travel, missionaries. Its all at hand. Our church has missionaries going to China and distributing hundreds of Bibles.

[Amazing Rando]

I don't know if many Christians are wondering about the obvious signs of the End of Times. Clearly, it is showing in every aspect of our daily lives. Morality, Faith being at an all time low, Wars and rumors of wars, Men as lovers of themselves and material things, Natural disasters. The tsunami that just recently occured, maybe God's way of warning of his arrival? I think so. Jesus stated that earthquakes would be a major natural disaster sign in his comming again. 9.0 - cant really ignore that, plus all the thousands and thousands dead.

Jesus (God) said that the signs would be evident and obvious for those who looked. I believe that we are in the most prophecized time that the Bible states. The End Times. I would like to open up this topic for discussion because I know about the events that will be occuring prior to the rapture; the signs. And of the times after; tribulation, judgements, new heaven and new earth, 1000 years of peace, the great white throne judgement (judgement of the ones who dwell in hell). And all that jazz.

So just ask if you have a question or just want to state your opinion
^-^

^.^ Pet the bunny ---> :bunny:

But when in the last 2000 years have these things not been occuring? People just like yourself have been looking at their own times and how crummy things were going and thinking just as you are- "man, look at all this bad stuff! The end is near!" That same mindset has been common from the very getgo.

Most interpreters believe that the "end times" began with Christ's first coming, his incarnation.

[Systemofastef]

But when in the last 2000 years have these things not been occuring? People just like yourself have been looking at their own times and how crummy things were going and thinking just as you are- "man, look at all this bad stuff! The end is near!" That same mindset has been common from the very getgo.

Most interpreters believe that the "end times" began with Christ's first coming, his incarnation. Well, if you were well versed in the Scriptures you would realize the significance of Isreal becomming a country in 1948, legally signing of documents occured in 1967. The fact that since they became a country they have started many organizations to start rebuilding the third temple. Which is a Bible prophecy directed towards the very end of times.


I highly doubt that anyone else within the last 2,000 years could say that. Because, oh right, Isreal wasen't a country back then, and no dedicated plans for rebuilding the temple was in order. Plus, with the death of Yasser Arafat, things seem to be moving towards the direction of peace and building of that temple.

Dont be so rash to deal out remarks without looking at the facts first.

[Richbee]

And, soon Iran will have the bomb?

Islamic Nukes *2

(Pakistan and Iran)

Our policy in the M.E. might have the best intentions, but what if we fail?

Or, what if the Dem's get elected and pull the plug?

Or, even worse, what if a Postmodern Atheist gets in the Whitehouse?

[semmie]

Well, if you were well versed in the Scriptures you would realize...
now come on. you opened this up for discussion, and i think it's a good discussion. but comments like this are probably not beneficial to anyone reading.

if we were well-versed in scripture, we would still not know certainly what god has planned regarding his return. he says that no one knows the day or hour--not even the son.

if we were well-versed in scripture, we would still have to admit a lot of ambiguity regarding certain texts dealing with israel, and whether they are speaking of the nation or the spiritual people of god.

if we were well-versed in scripture, we would have to look at the fact that much of prophecy in scripture has an immediate and a later fulfillment.

there's a lot of things to consider, really. and i agree with rondo's immediate sentiment: when have these things not happened? what makes this worthy of our attention?

surely, hundreds of thousands of deaths is cause for consideration. but where is that prophesied in scripture?

and surely, a 9.0 is cause for consideration--it's hardly average! but again...where is this prophesied? is there a specific end-time prophecy that gives you the impression that there will be greater-than-average earthquakes, causing massive death?

i suppose it's all worth our consideration. but remember what jesus said? when folks say "look! there he is!" what should our response be?

if this is the beginning of so-called tribulation, i personally believe the body of christ had better put on a pair of sneakers and get ready to stand for awhile.

but i'm not convinced that this is the beginning of the end. folks have been expecting the end of the world for at least a few years now. nothing about the goings-on of the world today strike me as crazier than what has been going on for the past 2000 years.

but that's just my two cents.

be blessed,
~sarah

[spiritmech]

ditto semmie.

[yxboom]

Well, if you were well versed in the Scriptures you would realize the significance of Isreal becomming a country in 1948, legally signing of documents occured in 1967...
:haha:

[dizzle]

:yeahthat:

[Amazing Rando]

Go semmie, go! :thumb:

[Solly]

Yeah them. ^

[Terral]

System:
System >> I don't know if many Christians are wondering about the obvious signs of the End of Times. Clearly, it is showing in every aspect of our daily lives. Morality, Faith being at an all time low, Wars and rumors of wars, Men as lovers of themselves and material things, Natural disasters. The tsunami that just recently occurred, maybe God's way of warning of his arrival? I think so. Jesus stated that earthquakes would be a major natural disaster sign in his coming again. 9.0 - can’t really ignore that, plus all the thousands and thousands dead.
No sir. I do not believe the Scriptural evidence points to us being anywhere near the ‘end of the age’ (Matt. 24:3) today. Christ gave the Disciples a laundry list of things that must occur, before the ‘end will come’ (Matt. 24:14). He says that “many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ’ and will mislead many.” Matt. 24:5. When was the last time the world saw anyone come along pretending to be Christ? Can you say that ‘many’ have come and deceived many? No. The earth must see nation against nation and kingdom raise up against kingdom with famines and earthquakes in various places. Matt. 24:7. However, these wars are related to the fact that “they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.” vs. 9. Where are the wars started over others believing in the name of Jesus? Unbelieving nations in the world today could not care less about what others believe. The global environment of the ‘end of the age’ will be much different than the one we find in the world today.

Christ says that “many false prophets will arise and will mislead many” (vs. 11), and that “because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold” (vs. 12). Look around and ask yourself if ‘lawlessness’ has become so rampant that ‘most people’s love’ has grown cold? The next series of prophecies are given in such a way that they cannot possibly be fulfilled today. Christ says, “This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.” Matt. 24:14. Keep in mind that Christ Himself preached the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ (Matt. 4:23, 9:35) long before He died on the cross for anybody. Most people do not understand that this ‘gospel of the kingdom’ is not the same ‘Christ and Him crucified’ (1Cor. 2:2) gospel from the Pauline Epistles that we preach today. The ‘gospel’ that shall be preached to the whole world at the ‘end of the age’ is the same one that John the Baptist, Christ and the Twelve preached 2000 years ago, before the Apostle Paul was raised up (Acts 9:15) and given our gospel (Gal. 1:11+12) for today. 1Cor. 15:1-4. The gospel of the kingdom has repentance and water baptism for the ‘forgiveness of sins’ (Mark 1:4, Acts 2:38), while Paul’s ‘my gospel’ (Rom. 2:16, 16:25) has Christ’s shed blood for our forgiveness (Eph. 1:7). Next Christ describes the man of sin standing in the holy place and the ‘abomination of desolation’ (Matt. 24:15) that can only occur after the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ goes to the whole world (vs. 14). Paul describes it like this:


“Let no one in any way deceive you, for unless the apostasy [ Matt. 24:4-12 ] comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed [ Matt. 24:15 ], the son of destruction [ first beast of Revelation 13 ], who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God [ holy place: Matt. 24:15 ], displaying himself as being God.”
The ‘gospel of the kingdom’ part of the prophecy cannot be fulfilled and preached to the whole world, because that is not even the ‘gospel’ we preach today. Then the antichrist cannot appear in the holy place [ Matt. 24:15 ], or the inner sanctuary of the Temple of God, [ 2Thes. 2:4 ] because that structure has yet to be rebuilt. The presence of the ‘Dome of the Rock’ on the Temple site means the antichrist [ man of sin, beast ] cannot possibly come to begin the ‘end of the age’ persecution of the Kingdom of God on earth. People fail to realize that Elijah must come first and ‘restore all things’ (Matt. 17:10+11), before Christ can even think about returning to fulfill all the prophecies of Matthew 24. The restoration of ‘all things’ includes the Temple of God and the ‘tabernacle of David’ (Acts 15:16-18) which shall allow for all these prophecies to be fulfilled.
System >> Jesus (God) said that the signs would be evident and obvious for those who looked. I believe that we are in the most prophecized time that the Bible states. The End Times. I would like to open up this topic for discussion because I know about the events that will be occuring prior to the rapture; the signs. And of the times after; tribulation, judgements, new heaven and new earth, 1000 years of peace, the great white throne judgement (judgement of the ones who dwell in hell). And all that jazz.
Jesus Christ is the ‘Son of God’ (John 1:34), and His coming (Matt. 24:30) at the ‘end of the age’ (Matt. 24:3) is preceded by all these signs coming to pass. Surely you must realize that there have been earthquakes, famines and wars on this earth throughout history. This is why those things are mixed in with all the other ‘Biblical’ prophecies that must come to pass, as those catastrophic natural events are increased (like birth pangs) over the course of those things happening simultaneously. There are many other Biblical reasons that we cannot possibly be in the last days of the fulfillment of Bible Prophecy. Christ is describing the final years of the “day of the Lord” (Acts 2:20+21, 2Pet. 3:10-12) that has two main parts or divisions. The first part must be fulfilled (Acts 2:17-19), before the second (Judgment; Acts 2:20+21) part can even begin. Peter says that His Spirit must be poured out on ‘All Mankind’ (Acts 2:17) first. We can see that the Holy Spirit is given through the laying of hands (Acts 8:17, 19:6) for the ‘good news concerning the kingdom of God’ (Acts 8:12).

We receive the Spirit by ‘hearing with faith’ (Gal. 3:2) today, according to Paul’s ‘Christ and Him crucified’ (1Cor. 2:2) gospel message. According to the Apostle Paul our current ‘body of Christ’ (Eph. 4:12) church is ‘caught up’ (1Thes. 4:17) and gathered to the Lord, when the day of the Lord is ‘at hand.’ 2Thes. 2:2. In other words, we are taken out of the way when the ‘day of the Lord’ BEGINS. Elijah comes to restore all things as part of the ‘day of the Lord’ itself. That is when the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ (Matt. 24:14) once again becomes ‘the gospel’ to be preached to the ‘end of the age.’ You have the 1000 years kingdom coming after the tribulation, which cannot be Scripturally proven. After all, when Christ comes at the ‘end of the age,’ in glory (Matt. 24:30) then He is coming to judge the living (Matt. 25:31-33) and the dead (Rev. 20:11-15). There is no time for another 1000 year kingdom on the earth, before we head into the new heavens and new earth (Rev. 21:1+). The ‘thousand years’ kingdom of Israel on the earth is restored when Elijah comes to restore all things ‘first.’ Matt. 17:10+11. Think about that for a minute or two . . . If Elijah comes ‘first’ to restore ‘all things,’ then there is nothing left for Christ to restore upon His coming at the end of the age. Therefore, all of OT and NT prophecy relating to the kingdom of Israel (Acts 1:6+7) and the ‘times and epochs’ must be complete, before Christ can appear on the scene. It is that restored kingdom that the antichrist comes to make desolate in Matthew 24:15 (2Thes. 2:3+4). Christ then comes at the very end to shorten the time of that persecution, lest all life perish from this planet.

In Christ,

Terral

[semmie]

terral,
i don't agree with all of your conclusions, but this was an excellent post.

~sarah

[glocksout]

funny how the one thing highlighted in scripture that Christ didn't know, which is when he would return, everyone thinkgs they do know.

it's not about when he comes back, it's about being ready.

Matt 25:
1“At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2Five of them were foolish and five were wise. 3The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. 4The wise, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. 5The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.

6“At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here's the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’

7“Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.’

9“ ‘No,’ they replied, ‘there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’

10“But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.

11“Later the others also came. ‘Sir! Sir!’ they said. ‘Open the door for us!’

12“But he replied, ‘I tell you the truth, I don't know you.’

13“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.

[Sparko]

Whether Christ comes back tomorrow or in two more thousand years makes not a whit of difference to me. I will be meeting him within, say, 40 more years, when I die. Everyone else on earth will stand before him too at the end of their lives. That is what counts.

[Amazing Rando]

Agreed John! Though in the back of my mind, I've definitely got some nagging yearning to still be alive on this earth when he "makes all things new." I suspect that I'm not alone in this desire either. Perhaps this is what is driving all these "The end is nigh!" people out of their little holes. :nsm:

[Sheepdog]

Well, if you were well versed in the Scriptures you would realize the significance of Isreal becomming a country in 1948, legally signing of documents occured in 1967. The fact that since they became a country they have started many organizations to start rebuilding the third temple. Which is a Bible prophecy directed towards the very end of times.

actually, i am seriously curious to know more about these organizations.

it is moot regardless. the prophecies regarding the Temple being destroyed and such were already fulfilled in AD70, no need for a new one. there i no prophecy of a ~1900 year exile where the Jews would return to their land, destroy the Muslim mosque in it's place (is it called the Temple of the Rock? i can't remember), and rebuild the Temple. You see, what you are describing is taking events out of the newspaper and interpolating them into prophecy.

don't feel like you are being condenscended to; that isn't my intention here, and many people make the same exegetical mistake.

I highly doubt that anyone else within the last 2,000 years could say that.

actually, many Christians around the turn of the last millenia (that is, right before 1000 AD) thought they were in the end times, and for good reason! they witnessed the time of Islam's great conquests: the Muslim warlords by that time were steadily encroaching on Christian-controlled regions (so you have your wars and rumors of wars; and i think Islam controlled Jerusalem by this time! so there's your abomination standing in the holy place). and of course, they had plagues and pestilences and earthquakes and such.

Because, oh right, Isreal wasen't a country back then, and no dedicated plans for rebuilding the temple was in order.

it doesn't matter. because, the Israel being prophesied about in the New Testament was the Israel that existed in Jesus' day. And everything he predicted about them came to pass.

Plus, with the death of Yasser Arafat, things seem to be moving towards the direction of peace and building of that temple.

i wouldn't be so quick to hope; Arafat did the strategic thing any oppressive dictator would do: eliminate those in political power who oppose him. so, don't hope for a more "moderate" individual to take his place, as it is most likely he will be succeeded by someone as bad as, if not worse than, him.

Dont be so rash to deal out remarks without looking at the facts first.

irony duly noted (sorry, i had to get one smart aleck comment in)

[InChristAlways]

Well, if you were well versed in the Scriptures you would realize the significance of Isreal becomming a country in 1948, legally signing of documents occured in 1967. The fact that since they became a country they have started many organizations to start rebuilding the third temple. Which is a Bible prophecy directed towards the very end of times.


Because, oh right, Isreal wasen't a country back then, and no dedicated plans for rebuilding the temple was in order. Well, for one thing the priests of the house of Judah/Levi(jews) are under a curse in malachi 2, and for another, Israel is still divorced from God, while Judah(JEWS) is still "married" to God but playing the Harlot. If you want to waste money building a temple, I wonder how preists are going to perform in it while they are still under the curse of malachi, as it appears God destroyed that temple so Christ would be the new High Priest and the way I read scritpture, God doesn't dwell in houses made by Human hands!. I would hate to be a "jew" when this happens. ( I think I am of the tribe of Dan, so I might be safe, don't know)God bless.


Jeremiah 3:8 "Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put Her away and given Her a certificate of divorce; yet her Treacherous Sister Judah[JEWS] did not fear, but went and played the Harlot also.

Malachi 2:1 "And now, O priests, this commandment is for you. 2 If you will not hear, And if you will not take to heart, To give glory to My name," Says the LORD of hosts, "I will send a curse upon you, And I will curse your blessings. Yes, I have cursed them already, Because you do not take [it] to heart. [i]3 "Behold, I will rebuke your descendants And spread DUNG on your faces, The DUNG of your solemn feasts; And [one] will take you away with it.

Revelation 11:1 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, "Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there(jews). 2 "But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot [for] forty-two months.

[Terral]

Sarah:
Sarah >> I don't agree with all of your conclusions, but this was an excellent post.
Thank you for saying . . . Please “quote me” where things appear to be off, and I will do my best to provide a better explanation. When we sit down to actually quote someone to show the errors in their testimony, then sometimes in our study to refute them we find more evidence that supports their case. GL,

In Christ,

Terral

[Systemofastef]

if we were well-versed in scripture, we would still not know certainly what god has planned regarding his return. he says that no one knows the day or hour--not even the son. Yes, but did he not also say to them: "When it is evening you say, 'It will be fair weather, for the sky is red'; and in the morning, 'It will be foul weather today, for the sky is red and threatening.' Hypocrites! You know how to discern the face of the sky, but you cannot discern the signs of the times." (Matthew 16:2-3)

The sign of the times we will not know the day or hour but we will know the signs - look around, he prophesized all of these signs and we are beginning to see the increase of these. And there are many.


there's a lot of things to consider, really. and i agree with rondo's immediate sentiment: when have these things not happened? what makes this worthy of our attention?
surely, hundreds of thousands of deaths is cause for consideration. but where is that prophesied in scripture?
and surely, a 9.0 is cause for consideration--it's hardly average! but again...where is this prophesied? is there a specific end-time prophecy that gives you the impression that there will be greater-than-average earthquakes, causing massive death?
Yes he did, Jesus hinted to us that "There will be famines and earthquakes in various places." (Matthew 24:7)
"There will be earthquakes in various places, and famines. These are the beginning of birth pains." (Mark 13:8)
"There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various places, and fearful events and great signs from heaven." (Luke 21:11)

(Famines: The World Health Organization estimates that one-third of the world is well-fed, one-third is under-fed one-third is starving. Yet we have enough food to feed the world. Famines are largely a result of man's corruption and greed and unwillingness to care for others. )

I am not stating that this is going to happen right away, but we are indeed living in the obvious generation. As from the text above and many others, he has shown an increase in "birth pangs." The past few years have set record highs in natural catastrophes and people's downfall. 50 years ago, the morality of people was that they were all saints compared to the people that we deal with now. People are selfish, inconsiderate, and cruel. True there have been many few back then who were in that range, but it is the majority mindset of the people today. They are raised on media and sterotypes. That breeds hate, and predujuce. I cant go one day in my high school with out seeing violence, ignorance, predujuce, swearing...and of the like. When our generation comes to power I can tell you that this place wont be getting any better.

And how many more generations can you allow before the world comes to a total collapse? Not long because if our generation, seeing as it is breeds another generation of far worse - just think about it. This kind of progression can only last for so long. Jesus would come again so that we do not destory ourselves, well in a godless world (much as is today, look at how people tried to get Jesus out of Christmas last year) people have reason to kill themselves and others because they do not care.

but i'm not convinced that this is the beginning of the end. folks have been expecting the end of the world for at least a few years now. nothing about the goings-on of the world today strike me as crazier than what has been going on for the past 2000 years."War and will continue till the end, and desolations have been decreed." (Daniel 9:26)

Really? You haven't noticed the technological increased weapons recently made to kill hundreds of thousands of millions...? The killings and wars of the past 2000 years have increased with death tolls and weaponry. Now we have nuclear war missles that could, if many released, destroy humans from the face of this earth. Do you not see the magnitude of natural disasters or murders in the past century? Terrorists, typhoons, abortions, earthquakes...Its a bloody mess out here. How much worse could this kind of behavior accumulate?

Since the tribulation will be the most horrendous time on earth (after we are raptured) it seems to me like the tribulation would be a gradual follow up to the times we are living in now.

I am not stating that this is going to happen right away, but we are indeed living in the obvious generation."So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the Kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away till all be fulfilled."

[Systemofastef]

Go to Google, search "temple mount organizations" Not too hard.

i found a few. interesting.

Actually I dont watch TV or read the newspaper, I read the Bible. In all actuallity with scripture there is the third rebuilding of the Temple.

:huh: how did you learn about the Tsunami tragedy then?

"And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him." (Daniel 9:27)

Now, explain to me, how in the world the AntiChrist could build the "abomination that causes desolation" in a temple that does not exist?

easy, whoever was the beast (BTW the term "antichrist" is never used in Revelation. just so you know) was set up the abomination (whatever that is) in the holy place (wherever that is; presumed to be the Temple, but i'm not so sure) sometime shortly before "Herod's" Temple was destroyed.

Therefore, the temple must be rebuilt.

You mean the Temple Jesus was refering to? that one is long gone. even if a Temple is rebuilt, it won't be the same one Jesus pointed to when he said "not one stone will be left on another."

They had no reason to believe that they were in the end times prophecy...

are you kidding? i just listed several reasons for them to believe. and i'm sure they, just like you, could force fit the inconsistencies taht causes into there interpretation.

... heres why we should believe, look at the signs:

1. The Rebirth of Israel: Ezek 4:3-6 : Fulfilled May 15, 1948

Umm, try fulfilled when Babylon let the Jews return their land after so many years of captivity (i can't remember if it was 50 years or 70).

Matthew 24:34 (KJV): "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled"

:doh: This generation!? You mean the generation that Jesus was talking to? that generation is now long gone, but many of them wouldn't have been when Herod's Temple was destroyed.

2. Restoration of the Hebrew Language: Zephaniah 3:9 : Fulfilled by Elizar ben Yahuda. Hebrew has become the living language of more than 5 million Israelis.

For then I will give to the peoples purified lips, That all of them may call on the name of the LORD, To serve Him shoulder to shoulder. Zepheniah 3:9

umm..... i'm missing something. :hrm: where, pray tell, do you see the restoration of a Hebrew language being prophecied here?

Purified lips probably had a spiritual significance, much like where God speaks of writing the Law on the people's hearts. boy oh boy, i hope that doesn't have a literally physical fulfillment. :brow:

3. Biblical predictions about the present Arab-Israeli Conflict: Psalm 83:2-8, ezekiel 35:1-5, and Ezekiel 35:10

4. The Return of the Ethiopian Jews to Israel: Ezekiel 37:21, Zephaniah 3:10, and Isaiah 43:4-5 : From 1989 to 1991 over 85,000 black Ethiopia Jews returned home to Israel.

5. The Astonishing Fertility of Israel: Isaiah 27:6, Isaiah 35:7, and Joel 2:23 : Today Israel supplies over 90% of the citrus fruit consumed by Europeans, and has planted over 200 million trees since they returned from exile.

6. Israel's Plans to rebuild the Temple: Isaiah 2:2, Ezekiel 43:19, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, and Revelation 11:1-2 : Currently numerous research projects projects are being conducted by the Temple Institute in Jerusalem and millions of dollars are in reserve for the rebuilding.

7. The Oil of Annointing: Exodus 30:22-23, Exodus 30:25-26, and Daniel 9:24 : THe Temple cannot come to pass unless the Jewish people possess the Oil of Annointing described in those references. One of the ingredients, sweet cinnamon, was rare When the Romans destroyed the Temple in c. 70 A.D., it was thought that all of the oil and 1 key ingredient had been lost forever. The Romans had destroyed the only crops that produced the ingredient. However, recently, archeologists found a clay flask inside a Dead Sea cave that contained the ancient oil of annointing. Carbon 14 dating places its age at 2000 years, and its contents as the precise measure of ingredients described in Exodus 30:25-26.

8. Vessels for the Future Temple: Ezekiel 44:16-17, Ezekiel 36:25, and Numbers 19:1-2 : The Temple Institute has prepared over 80 of the special, sacred objects, etc necessary to resume Temple worship. Also, Jewish Bible colleges are currently training over 500 men from the tribe of Levi to serve in the Temple. The "red heifer" has also been born i Israel, c. 1997.

9. Revival of the Roman Empire: Daniel 2:40-44 : Quote from EU Belgian Foreign Minister Henri Spaak "We felt like Romans on that day...We were consciously recreating the Roman Empire once more." (Said regarding the creation of the European Union.

as far as i can see, all of these make the same mistake as the ones i addressed above: either they refer to events that were fulfilled long before our time, or have some sort of significance taht you have to overlook in order to juxtapose them into our times.

10: Rebuilding of Babylon: Isaiah 13:6, Isaiah 13:19, Isaiah 34:8-10, Revelation 18:2 : Sadaam Hussein (sp?) has been rebuilding Babylon for some time.

the same Sadaam we recently found cowaring in a spider hole?

11. One World Government: Daniel 7:14, Revelation 13:7-8 : European Union, in cooperation with the United Nations are working on building a One World Government.

:lol: please. the UN is little more than a corrupt, yapping chiwawa. all bark and no bite... and they are only getting more irrelevant in the political world. as for the EU, they aren't a good candidate for a One World Government, since they were created in hopes of consolidating a power which can compete on the same level as the US. It is highly unlikely that the US and other nations will sign on (especially, umm, those not anywhere near Europe)..

12. Preparations for the Mark of the Beast: Revelation 13:16-18 : North America is already 95% cashless, tiny computer chips are already available, ID cards with computer tracking chips being implemented in many countries.

excuse me, but i don't see anything in Revelation mentioning ID cards or microchips.

keep your tin foil hat handy, though.

13. Worldwide Television Communications: Revelation 11:9-10 : 70years ago it would take a week for news to travel from Israel to Japan or New York, today almost instanteously.

14. Knowledge and Travel Shall Increase: Daniel 12:4 : We ar currently living in the "Information Age". Technology is growing at a faster rate than most people can keep up with.

of course, neither passages allude to telecommunications nor information technology. these things have to be interpreted from the news into the Bible, not from the Bible into our lives.

15. Armies preparing for Battle of Armageddon: Revelation 9:15-16 : Many countries have extremely large armies with no known purpose. Combining all the military might of the world could easily come close to or exceed 200 million.

actually, over the last few decades we have seen a decrease in military size in most places. The only country i know of that might be increasing in military size is China. Even the US military has shrunk a bit due to fewer enlistments.

16. God's warning to those who Destroy the Earth: Revelation 11:18 : Never before have we been so close to global destruction, by weaponry, pollution, etc.

You mean destroy the land/region (that is the most literal sense of the term "earth" here; see any lexicon)?

17. Military highway across Asia & Drying up of the Euphrates River: Revelation 16:12 : Asia has already constructed a highway across the Asian desert that serves no purpose. There are no trading posts or cities along the route. The route is a direct path towards the Euphrates River, which will dry up during the Tribulation.

funny, but i see nothing here at all in regards to a highway of any sort.

has the Euphrates dried up yet? if not then this passage hasn't been fulfilled in our times.

One author places the odds of just 10 of these happening in a single generation at one chance in 97,500 trillion.

actually, when you twist and contort your interpretation into the Bible that tenaciously, the chances that your interpretation of prophecy will be fulfilled turn out to be one in one. :ahem:

[Amazing Rando]

Actually I dont watch TV or read the newspaper, I read the Bible. In all actuallity with scripture there is the third rebuilding of the Temple.

"And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him." (Daniel 9:27)

Now, explain to me, how in the world the AntiChrist could build the "abomination that causes desolation" in a temple that does not exist? Therefore, the temple must be rebuilt.


There is broad agreement that Daniel 9:27 (and 11:31) is referring to the time when Antiochus Epiphanes set up an altar to the pagan god Zeus in the Temple of the Lord in 168 BC. The second Temple was very much in existence at that time. This passage doesn't say anything about any third temple because the second temple would not yet be destroyed until AD 70, over 200 years later.

[Systemofastef]

Sorry System, i meant to quote your post and i accidentally editted it. My mistake.

i tried fix your post, but i may have lost some of what you said.

Word of mouth. You know, people tend to like to talk about things like that.

And that was Daniel's prophecy of the 70 weeks. Where the antichrist will, in the middle of the "one seven" indeed set up the "abomination that causes desolation" until the "end that is decreed". The key to the end times prophecy (Daniel 9:24-27)

It was rebuilt a second time, they are planning to rebuild it a third time.

Key idea here: Isreal. Building of temple. Kinda feel like I'm repeating myself...

I'm talking about the end of times generation. As you can see the chapter of Matthew 24 is Signs of the End of the Age. Let me show you the reference so it makes sense to you:

"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds from one end of the heavens to the other.
Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. Even so, when you see all these things you know that it is near, right at the door....

I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."
(Matthew 24:30-34)

Now has this happened yet? No. This is explaining the end of times when he will come "on the clouds of the sky" to earth. AKA. Second comming. When we see these signs "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happend." AKA. We are seeing signs now that have not been seen before, therefore we are in the generation, or so it states.

"With one mind they plot together; they form an alligance against you..." (Psalm 83:5)

But we could very easily distribute the mark on everyone who the antichrist wishes to be marked. In Rev 13:16 being forced to have "the mark" which is 666 on the right hand or forehead. Some think microchips, which is why I stated so, but it will indeed portray the number 666. Imagine back then trying to get ahold of every person "small and great" to recieve a mark. Now, with increased communication and transportation it would be simple to force the peoples of the earth to recive a universal mark.

"many will go here and there to increase knowledge" (Daniel 12:4)

They do allude to an "increased knowledge" which therefore explains our age of Information, which, here is prophecized.

The key, really is China/red dragon/the army of 200 million. Now from this we can take that the red dragon of the prophecy and place it that it interprates to the highly honored dragon of Chinese origins. And an army that is made up of 200 million, as we know, China is the most populated country that could supply 200 million soldiers for the battle of Armegeddon. Rev 16:12 characterizes the kings from the East that will be prepared by the drying up of the river Euphrates. We know that there is indeed a road to the west from China.

"Turkey's Attaturk Dam project is completed. The river Euphrates, which flows through neighboring Syria and Iraq (whose economies are greatly dependent upon this river), originates in Turkey. Therefore Turkey claims sovereign rights over this river. The Dam project will turn the Euphrates into a mere trickle, parching Syria's and Iraq's irrigation network and forcing their river-boats into dry-dock."

Sorry, but from you opinionated ramblings I can see no fact, yet I support you with many.

[Systemofastef]

There is broad agreement that Daniel 9:27 (and 11:31) is referring to the time when Antiochus Epiphanes set up an altar to the pagan god Zeus in the Temple of the Lord in 168 BC. The second Temple was very much in existence at that time. This passage doesn't say anything about any third temple because the second temple would not yet be destroyed until AD 70, over 200 years later.
Yes, but just taking verse 27 out of context with the vital 3 left creates that kind of a problem. Daniel 9:24-27 is the key context to the end times prophecy. Now you stated that A.E set up this so-called "abomination that causes desolation" yet...did he "confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven'"? No, he did not, so therefore he did not issue a false peace in the middle of the tribulation and create the "abomination that causes desolation".

The seveny weeks have not started yet, we are still in the interval between weeks 69 and 70 (verse 26). Verse 26 also states that the people "will come to destroy the city and the sanctuatry." Which happened AD 70. Then verse 27 goes on to state the 'one seven' in which that time the "abomination" will be built. Not just built but built "on a wing of the temple". The temple must be rebuilt so the "abomination" can reside there.

[Systemofastef]

Well, for one thing the priests of the house of Judah/Levi(jews) are under a curse in malachi 2, and for another, Israel is still divorced from God, while Judah(JEWS) is still "married" to God but playing the Harlot. If you want to waste money building a temple, I wonder how preists are going to perform in it while they are still under the curse of malachi,



"Then the Lord will have men who will bring offerings in righteousness, and the offerings of Judah and Jerusalem will be acceptable to the Lord." (Maliachi 3:4)



Then in those days to come Isreal will indeed be accepted by God again (from "divorce").



"They will be mine," says the Lord Almighty, "in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him." (Malachi 3:17)



Doesn't this imply that he will indeed "spare them" and lift the curse? I don't know but maybe this has a connection with the 144,000 Jews who will be under God's protection. Therefore if he lifts the curse that he had placed he would indeed marry them again (sinced they were "divorced") in the great "wedding feast" or what not when the Lord will be reunited with the bride (aka. Isreal)



"He will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers." (Malichi 4:6)





as it appears God destroyed that temple so Christ would be the new High Priest and the way I read scritpture, God doesn't dwell in houses made by Human hands!


"I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God" (Revalation 21:2)

He dwells in the house that comes out of heaven, not what is made here on earth by men.

[glocksout]

Sorry, but from you opinionated ramblings I can see no fact, yet I support you with many.

you gave opinionated ramblings. what facts do you have? you haven't supported with facts, just your own interpritation of scriptures.


"many will go here and there to increase knowledge" (Daniel 12:4)

that is hardly a prophecy about technology. remember when scholars traveled around the world to increase knowledge? (that would be many men going here and there to increase knowledge) it happened from socrates on.

Daniel 9:24-27 refers to the Anointed One. another name for that is Messiah, or Christ. rebuilding of Jerusalem happened with Nehimiah. Jerusalem hasn't had to be rebuilt since then...

"Seventy weeks are decreed for your people and Jerusalem to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Messiah

"Know and understand this: From the issuing of the word to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Messiah, the ruler, comes, there will be seven weeks, and sixty-two weeks. It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble."

i wonder when Jerusalem was rebuilt duringa time of trouble ...

"After the sixty-two weeks, the Messiah will be cut off, but not for himself."

Crucifiction.

"The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary."

Nero

"The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. He will confirm a covenant with many for one week. In the middle of the week, he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

as stated before, this has all happened.

and as i have said before: Jesus didn't give us the right to be paranoid of everything that came along, he told us to be ready for it. He didn't tell us to keep an eye out for the end, but to be prepared for the end for it had already begun, as he told the people "don't you see the signs of the times?"

when questioned about the end, Jesus changed the subject to being prepared for the end.

it's vastly more important that we're ready than that we know when.

[Systemofastef]

"The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. He will confirm a covenant with many for one week. In the middle of the week, he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

as stated before, this has all happened.
Actually thats an end of times prophecy that deals with the end. And hasen't been fulfilled yet.

you gave opinionated ramblings. what facts do you have? you haven't supported with facts, just your own interpritation of scriptures."The "70 weeks" prophesied in Daniel 9:24-27 are the framework within which the seven-year tribulation (or the seventieth week) occurs. The prophecy of the 70 weeks was given to Daniel by God while Daniel was living under the Babylonian captivity. Daniel was concerned for his people who were nearing the end of their 70-year captivity. In his vision he was reassured that God had not forgotten His chosen people. The angel Gabriel told Daniel that God would bring Isreal back into its land and would one day set up the messianic kingdom. What was unexpected for Daniel was the revelation that all of this would not be fulfilled at the end of the current 70-year captivity in Babylon but after a future 70-week period described in 9:24-27. According to Daniel 9:27, the Antichrist will emerge in power during the prophetic milestone known as the seventieth week and after the fulfillment of the previously prophesied "69 weeks"."

-Fast Facts on Bible Prophecy by Thomas Ice and Timothy J. Demy

There, fact.

[glocksout]

There, fact.


that's humourous. it's not a fact, it is an interpritation of prophecy. remember how the people in Judah thought the Messiah would kick the Romans out - all based on prophecy? that's not how it turned out.

you haven't given fact, you have given an interpritation.

and still, what does that passage have to say about the end?

The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.

yes, Jesus said the end will come suddenly, just like a flodd like it says here. and it says war will continue until the end. there's been war every day since then, which means we're not at the end yet, now are we?

you also haven't explained about rebuilding Jerusalem, because it's not torn down, and it hasn't ever been torn down since the the exile to Babylon. but Nehimiah rebuilt it. so before you jump the gun about building the Temple again, we'd better destroy Jerusalem so it can be rebuilt.

[man-in-armor]

Shalom.

Glocksout i agree that no one knows the time, but we must be ready.

But to the being that started this topic, I feel your feeling.
The tsunami was a wake up to the whole world, every nation was affected because every nation had travellers in that sin flourishing country.

I stated in "The Laodicean Chruch Age" that I believe that this is the last church age and we've had the last messenger (William Branham died 1965).

One of his visions was an angel saying "WATCH RUSSIA, WATCH RUSSIA...."
and russia is developing a bomb that can fly in a sphere above radar levels.
Branhams also saw America in ashes.

[glocksout]

if russia blew anything up, it would be on accident. <-- that was a joke.

i don't want to get into battles over what interpritation of prophecy is right. i want to make sure we're all ready for the ressurection. but i do enjoy good discussion to sharpen our minds.

[Sheepdog]

Word of mouth. You know, people tend to like to talk about things like that.

so your interpolating word of mouth into Scripture. po-tay-to, po-tah-to.


And that was Daniel's prophecy of the 70 weeks. Where the antichrist will, in the middle of the "one seven" indeed set up the "abomination that causes desolation" until the "end that is decreed". The key to the end times prophecy (Daniel 9:24-27)

except if we were consistent with Daniel's chronology, the 70th week would have ended shortly after Christ ascended. otherwise, to make it still future you have to interpret into the text a nonexistant gap.

It was rebuilt a second time, they are planning to rebuild it a third time.

unfortunately for you, that rebuilding (really more like renovating; the temple wasn't totally destroyed the first time around) was predicted in the Old Testament. I still see no prediction of yet another Temple.

again, may i note that it wouldn't be the same Temple, even if rebuilt? the version of the Temple Jesus refered to was utterly destroyed. The prophesy taht not one stone will be left on another has long been fulfilled.

Key idea here: Isreal. Building of temple. Kinda feel like I'm repeating myself...

not really. they don't need a rebuilding of the Temple because the already have an abomination that causes desolation standing in the holy place (i.e., Jerusalem under Muslim control; heck, a mosque built where the Temple once stood). as noted, there were other cues one could draw from, and the inconsistencies (e.g. the fact that the Temple was no longer standing) could just be explained away. much like the inconsistencies in your interpretation of NT prophecy.

I'm talking about the end of times generation. As you can see the chapter of Matthew 24 is Signs of the End of the Age. Let me show you the reference so it makes sense to you:

"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds from one end of the heavens to the other.
Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. Even so, when you see all these things you know that it is near, right at the door....

have you even bothered looking in the OT for similar imagery? or even at other sayings of Jesus (e.g. you will see me at the right hand of the Father-- did the high priest literally see Jesus at the Father's right hand; you will not see me again until you say 'blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord' -- ummmmm, they did see Him, many times, before he was crucified).

the problem isn't that these things didn't happen; the problem is you presume they have to have a literal fulfillment.

I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."
(Matthew 24:30-34)

i don't know about you, from what i can see, the only generation Jesus could have been talking about was the generation that lived at that time. you pretty much have to force words into Jesus' mouth that weren't there to get that.

Now has this happened yet? No. This is explaining the end of times when he will come "on the clouds of the sky" to earth. AKA. Second comming. When we see these signs "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happend." AKA. We are seeing signs now that have not been seen before, therefore we are in the generation, or so it states.

look at every other case where Jesus says "this generation," and tell me how they could not have refered to the immediate generation Jesus was talking to. if Jesus was talking about a different generation -- one that will be future -- why not say "that generation" or even go all out and actually say "the generation that sees these things..."?


"With one mind they plot together; they form an alligance against you..." (Psalm 83:5)

what is Psalm 83 speaking about in context?

But we could very easily distribute the mark on everyone who the antichrist wishes to be marked. In Rev 13:16 being forced to have "the mark" which is 666 on the right hand or forehead. Some think microchips, which is why I stated so, but it will indeed portray the number 666. Imagine back then trying to get ahold of every person "small and great" to recieve a mark. Now, with increased communication and transportation it would be simple to force the peoples of the earth to recive a universal mark.

every person in the land? (which is the most literal interpretation of "world" here). not too hard really.

though, that assumes the mark is literal.d o you believe the Beast will be a literal beast too?

"many will go here and there to increase knowledge" (Daniel 12:4)

They do allude to an "increased knowledge" which therefore explains our age of Information, which, here is prophecized.

umm, that has happened in every generation that has lived since Daniel prophesied, and many before. let's not assume too much.

The key, really is China/red dragon/the army of 200 million. Now from this we can take that the red dragon of the prophecy and place it that it interprates to the highly honored dragon of Chinese origins. And an army that is made up of 200 million, as we know, China is the most populated country that could supply 200 million soldiers for the battle of Armegeddon. Rev 16:12 characterizes the kings from the East that will be prepared by the drying up of the river Euphrates. We know that there is indeed a road to the west from China.

dang, you have this all figured out don't you.

why would China care to send all their troops to a field somewhere in the "backwoods" of the Palestice/Israel area? it doesn't seem very strategic.

and i presume the purpose of that road is so they can trade, since it does go from China towards the west.

"Turkey's Attaturk Dam project is completed. The river Euphrates, which flows through neighboring Syria and Iraq (whose economies are greatly dependent upon this river), originates in Turkey. Therefore Turkey claims sovereign rights over this river. The Dam project will turn the Euphrates into a mere trickle, parching Syria's and Iraq's irrigation network and forcing their river-boats into dry-dock."

correction, the dam can turn the Euphrates into a trickle, but that is unlikely. more likely is that it will be used either to generate electricity or form a resevoir. (the middle east, after all is a dry place.) You can't just stop a river indefinitely... have you ever taken a Civil Engineering class?


Sorry, but from you opinionated ramblings I can see no fact, yet I support you with many.

no fact? opinionated ramblings? all intended to do was show you how you are eisegeting modern events into Scripture, rather than exegeting facts out of Scripture. and i am successful, as far as i can see.

[barryrob]

I don't know if many Christians are wondering about the obvious signs of the End of Times. Clearly, it is showing in every aspect of our daily lives. Morality, Faith being at an all time low, Wars and rumors of wars, Men as lovers of themselves and material things, Natural disasters. The tsunami that just recently occured, maybe God's way of warning of his arrival? I think so. Jesus stated that earthquakes would be a major natural disaster sign in his comming again. 9.0 - cant really ignore that, plus all the thousands and thousands dead.

Jesus (God) said that the signs would be evident and obvious for those who looked. I believe that we are in the most prophecized time that the Bible states. The End Times. I would like to open up this topic for discussion because I know about the events that will be occuring prior to the rapture; the signs. And of the times after; tribulation, judgements, new heaven and new earth, 1000 years of peace, the great white throne judgement (judgement of the ones who dwell in hell). And all that jazz.
So just ask if you have a question or just want to state your opinion
Pet the bunny

James 1:13 ". . .When under trial, let no one say: "I am being tried by God." For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone."

God does not inflict bad things upon human beings. It is either down to their bad decisions or circumstances or just being in the wrong place at the wrong time:-

Ecclesiastes 9:11
I returned to see under the sun that the swift do not have the race, nor the mighty ones the battle, nor do the wise also have the food, nor do the understanding ones also have the riches, nor do even those having knowledge have the favor; because time and unforeseen occurrence befall them all.

Barryrob

[semmie]

Thank you for saying . . . Please “quote me” where things appear to be off, and I will do my best to provide a better explanation. When we sit down to actually quote someone to show the errors in their testimony, then sometimes in our study to refute them we find more evidence that supports their case.
Terral,
thank you, but no thank you.

Yes, but did he not also say to them: "When it is evening you say, 'It will be fair weather, for the sky is red'; and in the morning, 'It will be foul weather today, for the sky is red and threatening.' Hypocrites! You know how to discern the face of the sky, but you cannot discern the signs of the times." (Matthew 16:2-3)

The sign of the times we will not know the day or hour but we will know the signs - look around, he prophesized all of these signs and we are beginning to see the increase of these. And there are many.

Yes he did, Jesus hinted to us that "There will be famines and earthquakes in various places." (Matthew 24:7)
"There will be earthquakes in various places, and famines. These are the beginning of birth pains." (Mark 13:8)
"There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various places, and fearful events and great signs from heaven." (Luke 21:11)

(Famines: The World Health Organization estimates that one-third of the world is well-fed, one-third is under-fed one-third is starving. Yet we have enough food to feed the world. Famines are largely a result of man's corruption and greed and unwillingness to care for others. )

I am not stating that this is going to happen right away, but we are indeed living in the obvious generation. As from the text above and many others, he has shown an increase in "birth pangs." The past few years have set record highs in natural catastrophes and people's downfall. 50 years ago, the morality of people was that they were all saints compared to the people that we deal with now. People are selfish, inconsiderate, and cruel. True there have been many few back then who were in that range, but it is the majority mindset of the people today. They are raised on media and sterotypes. That breeds hate, and predujuce. I cant go one day in my high school with out seeing violence, ignorance, predujuce, swearing...and of the like. When our generation comes to power I can tell you that this place wont be getting any better.

And how many more generations can you allow before the world comes to a total collapse? Not long because if our generation, seeing as it is breeds another generation of far worse - just think about it. This kind of progression can only last for so long. Jesus would come again so that we do not destory ourselves, well in a godless world (much as is today, look at how people tried to get Jesus out of Christmas last year) people have reason to kill themselves and others because they do not care.

"War and will continue till the end, and desolations have been decreed." (Daniel 9:26)

Really? You haven't noticed the technological increased weapons recently made to kill hundreds of thousands of millions...? The killings and wars of the past 2000 years have increased with death tolls and weaponry. Now we have nuclear war missles that could, if many released, destroy humans from the face of this earth. Do you not see the magnitude of natural disasters or murders in the past century? Terrorists, typhoons, abortions, earthquakes...Its a bloody mess out here. How much worse could this kind of behavior accumulate?

Since the tribulation will be the most horrendous time on earth (after we are raptured) it seems to me like the tribulation would be a gradual follow up to the times we are living in now.

"So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the Kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away till all be fulfilled."
hello again sys,
i have to admit, i appreciate the passion you write with. i simply do not agree with your analysis, though. you said you are in high school? i can understand, then, why you see your generation as being a new category of evil and such. i felt the same way when i was in high school. that's not to dismiss your concerns--because they're honest concerns. when i was in high school, we weren't worried about terrorists; we were worried about being gunned down by our classmates. that was a big deal in my generation. it still is.

but how is that honestly different than anything that has ever happened in the past? can you name any year or generation in history that has not seen the effects of sin and corruption? i don't think you can.

and that's what it comes down to, i think. of course we are to be watchful and prepared for christ's return! and of course we are to be mindful of the signs! but we don't need to borrow tomorrow's trouble, and we don't need to be surprised at the effects of sin.

keep in mind, when adam sinned, god cursed the ground, too, as a result. there is nothing, to my knowledge, in creation that is exempt from the curse. natural disasters (i.e.: floods, tsunamis, earthquakes, mudslides) may all be natural effects of being under the curse. we need not blame god or try to explain his behavior. we chose this for ourselves and for all of creation.

and i don't know...technology seems pretty spectacular to me, too. do you suppose folks thought the world was ending when they figured out the wheel?

birth pains, says you? two thousand years of birth pains, says i.

there is still nothing new under the sun.

by the way, what are you doing about that famine problem?

anyway...a lot of folks are saying a lot of things in this thread; and a lot of good things. i don't want to distract you from hearing them.

may you continue to grow in the grace and knowledge of our lord, jesus the christ,
~sarah

[Systemofastef]

Ok, found out that indeed we are both correct, found out that Daniels predictions did indeed take effect before and will again. The end of times will happen the same as it did back then, because it states in Matthew 24:15-16
"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel - let the reader understand - then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains."
And of course before that, many things that would be a sign to the end of times. And "those who are in Judea flee to the mountains." Which is prophicided here and in Revelation 14:1
"Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,00 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads."
So Daniel's 70 weeks will still be in effect for the world in the comming end times, whenever that may be.

[Systemofastef]

hello again sys,
i have to admit, i appreciate the passion you write with. i simply do not agree with your analysis, though. you said you are in high school? i can understand, then, why you see your generation as being a new category of evil and such. i felt the same way when i was in high school. that's not to dismiss your concerns--because they're honest concerns. when i was in high school, we weren't worried about terrorists; we were worried about being gunned down by our classmates. that was a big deal in my generation. it still is.

but how is that honestly different than anything that has ever happened in the past? can you name any year or generation in history that has not seen the effects of sin and corruption? i don't think you can.

and that's what it comes down to, i think. of course we are to be watchful and prepared for christ's return! and of course we are to be mindful of the signs! but we don't need to borrow tomorrow's trouble, and we don't need to be surprised at the effects of sin.

keep in mind, when adam sinned, god cursed the ground, too, as a result. there is nothing, to my knowledge, in creation that is exempt from the curse. natural disasters (i.e.: floods, tsunamis, earthquakes, mudslides) may all be natural effects of being under the curse. we need not blame god or try to explain his behavior. we chose this for ourselves and for all of creation.

and i don't know...technology seems pretty spectacular to me, too. do you suppose folks thought the world was ending when they figured out the wheel?

birth pains, says you? two thousand years of birth pains, says i.

there is still nothing new under the sun.

by the way, what are you doing about that famine problem?


Ya, lots of interesting things people are talking about here. Thanks for the non-sarcastic reply, seems people like to bash my brains in here. Should've never posted, oh well. Anywho, about what I'm doing about the famine problem, our family is sponsering a child in Bolivia, giving him money every month for food and such. If we were rich we'd be doing more. So anyways, thanx

-systemofastef

[ekklesias]

An Islamic cleric claims it is Allah's punishment. Read it here http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42295


On a personel note I do believe that in the past 10-20 years we have seen an increase in occurance and severity of natural disasters. Many disagree but Jesus told us to watch AND BE READY. The earth will groan as a woman in childbirth---hmmm. I hear groaning!

[Systemofastef]

I hear groaning!
As do I ^-^

[glocksout]

As do I ^-^

possibly

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0197840.html

[ekklesias]

possibly

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0197840.html
That was interesting but it only covers earthquakes and as we know that is not the only natural disaster to be looked at. In just the past two months we have had ice storms(I experienced this one) massive flooding in various parts of the U.S, mudslides, a tsunami and it is snowing in Hawaii!! I also think, just based on my own life experience that we have had an increase in thunderstorms, extreme winds and tornados, I don't remember it ever being as windy as it was last year(and I dont mean just breezy--I'm talkin' batton down the hatches wind) and while I am no expert we do keep a close eye on our local weather because my husband is a roofer--last year was the first that I can remember where he missed a signifacant amount of work because it was too windy. If these are not signs of our saviors coming then they are definatly signs that the human race had better treat our home better cause somethings very wrong here!!!!