Religious Freedom-Apostacy Law

[moonlight3]

With todays globalisation, people are free to travel anywhere. Also, people should be free to think and believe.
The Apostacy Laws in Islam need to be repeled. A human being should be free to think and join a religion he feels confortable with. There should be a world wide movement to end the Apostacy Law.

[wolf]

With todays globalisation, people are free to travel anywhere. Also, people should be free to think and believe.
The Apostacy Laws in Islam need to be repeled. A human being should be free to think and join a religion he feels confortable with. There should be a world wide movement to end the Apostacy Law.
The penalty for Apostasy in Islam is NOT the capital punishment. This is post early caliphate concept that came into Islam when the Ummayads wanted to hold onto power and control their masses more. It is only supported by some dubious Hadith. There is NO quranic support for it whatsoever (please quote the verses if there is any). Infact I will quote from chapter 3 myself.


003.085 If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).

003.086 How shall Allah Guide those who reject Faith after they accepted it and bore witness that the Messenger was true and that Clear Signs had come unto them? but Allah guides not a people unjust.

003.087 Of such the reward is that on them (rests) the curse of Allah, of His angels, and of all mankind;-

003.088 In that will they dwell; nor will their penalty be lightened, nor respite be (their lot);-

003.089 Except for those that repent (Even) after that, and make amends; for verily Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

003.090 But those who reject Faith after they accepted it, and then go on adding to their defiance of Faith,- never will their repentance be accepted; for they are those who have (of set purpose) gone astray.

003.091 As to those who reject Faith, and die rejecting,- never would be accepted from any such as much gold as the earth contains, though they should offer it for ransom. For such is (in store) a penalty grievous, and they will find no helpers.

I will draw your attention to verse 89 which speaks of those that have rejected the faith. It states clearly that "if they repent after that and make amends...." How can one repent if one is already dead?? Or make amends if one is already dead. In verse 85 a punishment is described in the hereafter but none for the present world, this would have been an ideal time to pen the exact punishment for apostasy but none is mentioned specifically. Finally in verse 90 those are described who add to their defiance again a difficult achievement if you are already dead. Overall the Quran lends no support to the notion of Capital punishment for apostasy and infact there is definitive support the other way. The Quran is superior to any hadith as primary sources go hence no death penalty for leaving Islam. Any country or state which advocates this is incorrect in its application of Islamic Law.


Wasalam


Wolf

[Krusader]

The penalty for Apostasy in Islam is NOT the capital punishment. This is post early caliphate concept that came into Islam when the Ummayads wanted to hold onto power and control their masses more. It is only supported by some dubious Hadith. There is NO quranic support for it whatsoever (please quote the verses if there is any). Infact I will quote from chapter 3 myself.


003.085 If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).

003.086 How shall Allah Guide those who reject Faith after they accepted it and bore witness that the Messenger was true and that Clear Signs had come unto them? but Allah guides not a people unjust.

003.087 Of such the reward is that on them (rests) the curse of Allah, of His angels, and of all mankind;-

003.088 In that will they dwell; nor will their penalty be lightened, nor respite be (their lot);-

003.089 Except for those that repent (Even) after that, and make amends; for verily Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

003.090 But those who reject Faith after they accepted it, and then go on adding to their defiance of Faith,- never will their repentance be accepted; for they are those who have (of set purpose) gone astray.

003.091 As to those who reject Faith, and die rejecting,- never would be accepted from any such as much gold as the earth contains, though they should offer it for ransom. For such is (in store) a penalty grievous, and they will find no helpers.

I will draw your attention to verse 89 which speaks of those that have rejected the faith. It states clearly that "if they repent after that and make amends...." How can one repent if one is already dead?? Or make amends if one is already dead. In verse 85 a punishment is described in the hereafter but none for the present world, this would have been an ideal time to pen the exact punishment for apostasy but none is mentioned specifically. Finally in verse 90 those are described who add to their defiance again a difficult achievement if you are already dead. Overall the Quran lends no support to the notion of Capital punishment for apostasy and infact there is definitive support the other way. The Quran is superior to any hadith as primary sources go hence no death penalty for leaving Islam. Any country or state which advocates this is incorrect in its application of Islamic Law.


Wasalam


Wolf

While Muslims themselves disagree with the issue, the fact is that Christian converts from Islam have lost their lives for professing Christ.

Prince Charles of England is leading a movement to attempt to do away with the death penalty for Islamic apostasy.

See also: http://www.bible.ca/islam/library/Zwemer/Apostasy/chap2.htm

[Snarf]

While Muslims themselves disagree with the issue, the fact is that Christian converts from Islam have lost their lives for professing Christ.

Prince Charles of England is leading a movement to attempt to do away with the death penalty for Islamic apostasy.

See also: http://www.bible.ca/islam/library/Zwemer/Apostasy/chap2.htm

And the fact is that many Christians have killed lots of Muslims, with the church's blessing. Also lots of Christians have killed each other.

[Krusader]

And the fact is that many Christians have killed lots of Muslims, with the church's blessing. Also lots of Christians have killed each other.
So-called "Christians" have done a lot of things wrong - but not because of the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Mohammed and his Quran are the origin of all the murderous deeds you see today done in the name of allah.

[shunyadragon]

So-called "Christians" have done a lot of things wrong - but not because of the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Mohammed and his Quran are the origin of all the murderous deeds you see today done in the name of allah.The same can said of Christians. The so-called line is a scapegoat. The OT is full of violence against non-believers. The history of Christianity is the most violent of any religion against non-believers.

An interesting point in Christianity is that for most Christians, Christ is the one who spoke and acted in God's behalf throughout the OT, and none of these methods and actions are abrogated by Christ in the NT. Christ's actions in the OT would be an example and teaching of Christ. Those that carried out these deads are glorified in the NT.

The origin of murderous deeds is less justified in the Koran as it is the Bible.

[moonlight3]

The same can said of Christians. The so-called line is a scapegoat. The OT is full of violence against non-believers. The history of Christianity is the most violent of any religion against non-believers.

An interesting point in Christianity is that for most Christians, Christ is the one who spoke and acted in God's behalf throughout the OT, and none of these methods and actions are abrogated by Christ in the NT. Christ's actions in the OT would be an example and teaching of Christ. Those that carried out these deads are glorified in the NT.

The origin of murderous deeds is less justified in the Koran as it is the Bible.
The only people whom kill other people because of their relgion at the 21st century are the Muslims. What matters to humanity is what is happening now, 2005.
Apostacy in Islam is delt with by killing. Whether the apostate was a Muslim by birth or had the misfourtune to turn from another religion to Islam and then change his mind. Solliman Rushie is the biggest example of how Islam deal with some Muslims who don't follow Islam blindly. What happened in East Timur is an example of how Islam deals with a whole nation that have a different religion.

[moonlight3]

The same can said of Christians. The so-called line is a scapegoat. The OT is full of violence against non-believers. The history of Christianity is the most violent of any religion against non-believers.

An interesting point in Christianity is that for most Christians, Christ is the one who spoke and acted in God's behalf throughout the OT, and none of these methods and actions are abrogated by Christ in the NT. Christ's actions in the OT would be an example and teaching of Christ. Those that carried out these deads are glorified in the NT.

The origin of murderous deeds is less justified in the Koran as it is the Bible.
For apostacy see:
http://www.bible.ca/islam/library/Zwemer/Apostasy/chap2.htm