Praying like a Pagan

[Jillyn'Toast]

Ok this IHOP (International House of Prayer for those of you who don't know already) is really bringing a lot of things into my head.

At this IHOP they've vowed to have people praying 24 hours a day at their prayer room. So they do it in shifts of 6hrs and one group will pray for 6hrs and another will come in and so on. And they pray like the typical pentacostal preacher who shouts and yells and jumps and has prophetic messages. It's never quiet, I was there for a week, it was NEVER quiet. They even had small children doing it (which is a separate issue).

But here's my question, Jesus directed us to pray quiet and without many words, almost like in a humble way. Heres what the Bible says:

5And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

So, would a loud, continual pray that is in a public setting be sort of like... I don't know... defeating the purpose? It really didn't set well with me, and so I'm wondering what your opinions are on prayer. I know Thessalonians says to pray continually, is that what it meant?

[Piebald]

It depends on their motives for loud and public prayer. If it's stemming from a personal ambition then it is definitely in violation of Jesus' words. They could, though, however, have some other motive (e.g. inspiring/reminding other people to pray). Of course, if you pray to yourself and secretly you sidestep the whole issue and don't even have the appearance of evil.

As for the repetitions/continuous prayer, Here is commentary from Robinson's Word Pictures:


Used of stammerers who repeat the words, then mere babbling or chattering, empty repetition. The etymology is uncertain, but it is probably onomatopoetic like “babble.” The worshippers of Baal on Mount Carmel (1Ki_18:26) and of Diana in the amphitheatre at Ephesus who yelled for two hours (Act_19:34) are examples. The Mohammedans may also be cited who seem to think that they “will be heard for their much speaking” (en tēi polulogiāi). Vincent adds “and the Romanists with their paternosters and avast.” The Syriac Sinaitic has it: “Do not be saying idle things.” Certainly Jesus does not mean to condemn all repetition in prayer since he himself prayed three times in Gethsemane “saying the same words again” (Mat_26:44). “As the Gentiles do,” says Jesus. “The Pagans thought that by endless repetitions and many words they would inform their gods as to their needs and weary them (‘fatigare deos’) into granting their requests” (Bruce).

[AcousticJS]

:yeahthat:

Speaking as someone who's occasionally been to that sort of meeting, I'd be cautious in categorically saying that IHOP and the general pentecostal/charismatic style of public prayer is wrong. It depends on their heart motivation - Jesus was speaking out against the hypocrisy of those who pray "to be heard by others" in the synagogues and street corners. Probably the same sort of people he had in his sights when telling the parable of the tax collector and the Pharisee at the temple. The Pharisee was actually praying "I'm glad I'm not like those sinners over there!"

With some people, it is no more than hype, and wanting to be seen to be passionate - of that I have no doubt, and it comes dangerously close to being subject to Jesus' rebukes. However, for some, it is a genuine passion in their soul being expressed. I've experienced occasions where I was filled with passion and conviction, and started praying more "aggressively" than usual - but that's because it was an overflow of my heart. I wasn't doing it because I wanted people to think I was passionate, I literally couldn't have prayed in any other way.

I'm a little bit cautious about the fact that it was never quiet, but would still hesitate to make any kind of judgement removed this far away.

God bless
Jon

[Amazing Rando]

IHOP, eh? They praying for the quality of their pancakes or something?

[semmie]

rando :lol: you're too much.



hello jill!

i wanted to toss in a thought quick. like just about everything in scripture, there is some sort of balance, i think. on the one hand, you're absolutely right--jesus told us not to pray like the pagans. but on the other hand, jesus himself was known to pray quite verbally and publicly...and lengthily! (remember john 17?) i don't think jesus meant for us to never pray publicly or passionately, because again--he did both. i think acoust is correct in pointing out the manner of the prayers and hypocracy that christ was addressing in the passage you mentioned. passion should not be automatically categorized as hypocracy or paganistic in nature. neither should loud voice and many words be automatically categorized as passion. it's probably more of a discernment thing than anything.

but obviously a group of believers does not gather together to sit and quietly pray, unless they've specifically called a silent prayer meeting. there is something to be said for gathering with other believers, praying, worshiping, and agreeing with one another. there is edification for the body of christ in corporate prayer, and scripture actually encourages us to agree together in prayer (asking in his name).

when/if it turns into a lung capacity contest, then someone (probably a pastor or elder or deacon) needs to step in and give some correction and teaching on the matter. but if it is simply the body of christ, gathered for the specific purpose of corporate prayer, then i would hesitate to categorize this as what christ was talking about in the passage you mentioned.

i'm curious...is this a church that you're attending on a regular basis? if so, you may want to approach the pastor, and ask him what their scriptural basis is for such passionate prayer. i'm sure he'd be happy to talk with you about it!

be blessed, jill!
~sarah

[Jillyn'Toast]

Thanks for all your replys! They've helped already.

Hamster, thanks for the insight! That was great.

AcousticJS, I'd say "hype" is the word I"d describe everything they did. They all dressed trendy, wouldn't let you on the worship band unless you auditioned well, had to know the lingo. I'm not saying everything they did was wrong or unBiblical, but things just didn't seem quite right to me. I can understand shouting when led to by the Holy Spirit, but shouting as a normal approach to prayer seems a bit much. I should probably have said, I'm pentacostal, raised pentacostal, daugher of a pentacostal minister. I'm not bashing how pentacostals pray loudly, I'm just saying sometimes it crosses a line. I wasn't sure how to handle it this time.

AmazingRando, that joke's old :tongue:

semmie, you're absolutely right. I'm just confused at their motive right now. The founder of this House of Prayer said that all other theology schools of thought are wrong. They've found *the* way to the most effective prophetic ministry. Everyone else before them didn't have an effective prophetic ministry. It just seemed a bit prideful. I'm totally ready to say I'm wrong, I just wish I had someone who could give me a better opinion on it. It's not a church I attend regularly. It was just a one time thing. I went down for a whole week with some friends.

[semmie]

jill,

sounds to me like you're right on the money with this. exclusivism is always dangerous from a pride perspective. being right doesn't matter so much once you set yourself up on a pedestal.

so...i actually don't agree with most of what i know about the ihop--though i admit i don't know much. :hrm: it seems to me that i heard the basis of the twenty-four hour thing was a verse in the old testament...

1 Chronicles 9:33
33 Those who were musicians, heads of Levite families, stayed in the rooms of the temple and were exempt from other duties because they were responsible for the work day and night.

the idea is that worship was going on in the temple twenty-four hours a day, so why don't we have worship going on in our churches twenty-four hours a day?

it's a good idea, i think--though i'm not sure i agree with its application by the ihop folks.

as for the rest of their doctrine and practices, i can't offer much insight.

but again, it sounds to me like you've thought this through and you are pretty well balanced in your observations.

still, i would encourage you to be careful about assuming motives. you may have seen and heard and experienced a lot in the week you were there, but i think we all can agree that there is far more that goes on in one particular body than what a visitor can see in a day, or a week, or even a month's time.

i think that's all.

it's nice to converse with you. :teeth:

pax domini,
~sarah