How long should one pray?

[misterguss]

On a personal note, my personal relationship with God began about 6 years ago. Naturally, I looked to my spiritual leaders in my church to gain insight about the basics of growing spiritually mature...and the common thing I walked away with in regards to prayer was that I was to pray continuously. I figured I would pray short prayers and try to focus on God throughout the entire day.

At my college graduation this past spring, a pastor by the name of Dee Duke gave the commencement speech that has changed my outlook on prayer. He lives in a small town of around 1,700 people in Oregon. He was a pastor of a small church that he planted many years ago...after 3 church splits and many members leaving, he decided he would resign. He went to a conference on prayer and everything changed. He felt God calling him to remain at the church but to take his prayer life more serious.

He began to pray for every member in his church at least 1 time each week...as he began to do this, his church began to grow. As the church grew, his prayer time grew to around 1-2 hours a day. The church now has 1,400 members in a town of 1,700 people. Why? Because Mr. Duke decided to take a few hours out of his day to pray...

After I heard this message, my idea of prayer changed drastically. Yes, I try to pray throughout the day, but I set aside a specific time of day to do nothing but pray...this can last from 30 minutes to 1 1/2 hours. Since I've done this, my relationship with God is completely different.

There are many passages in the Bible that talk about Jesus going away and praying for many hours at a time...should we be doing the same thing? Do any of you do this? And if you don't, why not?

I am tempted to say if a person doesn't spend at least 30 minutes in prayer a day, their spiritual life is probably mediocre. I know there isn't a specific amount of time one should pray in order to be growing spiritually...but I was wondering any of you have any thoughts regarding an amount of time in prayer that needs to take place in order for true spiritual growth.

[ih8censorship]

id say praying for an extended length of time is fine, UNLESS your praying for the same specific thing for hours at a time then your like the hypocrite pagans jesus preached against.(after all when there was that contest between i think it was elijah and the pagans the pagans prayed and prayed and prayed and never got an answer and elijah prayed once and got an answer... ) i dont think it matters how long you pray, so much as DO you pray and WHAT DO you pray about.

[misterguss]

i dont think it matters how long you pray, so much as DO you pray and WHAT DO you pray about.What you said is true about selfish prayer...but I don't know if I agree with your statement above. Do you think that if you pray for a minute or two a day, you will grow in your relationship with God?
If I spoke to a person for a minute or two a day, our relationship wouldn't grow because brief conversation is never deep. Do you think you can grow in your relationship with God if you only speak to Him for a brief moment every once in awhile?

I think the amount of time you spend talking and listening to God does matter...

[TrinityKicker]

First, your story was about a pastor. A pastor is supposed to be supported so that he can minister to the needs of a specific group of people. If the pastor wasn't spending daily time in focused prayer, I would say that was a problem. I consider it part of a pastor's job to spend time in prayer, Bible study and reflection on current social/economic/political issues. If a pastor isn't doing these things, then what is he doing?

Now that that's off of my chest, how long one should pray in order to grow spiritually. I don't think that there is an amount? I used to spend extended time in prayer and simply run out of things to say. I have even had a few classes on how to pray at length. After years of that, I basically decided that I should talk to God the way that I talk to people. That means if veries greatly with the subject and my mood.

There is a more fundamental question I have for you in regaurds to you question though, What do you mean by "true spiritual growth"?

[learning]

Hey, I remember when I used to spend an hour in prayer every day, and I was very close to God. Now I pray less, and I don't feel as close. Wonder why?

I do pray, but more throughout the day and as God brings people or things to my mind.

Maybe you could pray that I'll pray more? ;)

any of you guys read the story 'Fresh Wind, Fresh Fire'? I believe it's about a church in Brooklyn New York, where prayer changed it from a dying church of less than a dozen, to a dynamic, prayerful church. It isn't just the pastor that needs to pray. We all do.

[Amazing Rando]

Pray as much and as often as you can...

or... "Pray without ceasing" 1 Thes 5:17 (NASB).

[Cyrus of Persia]

I think that we are discussing about the matter what is very personal (i mean how long must someone pray, and when). There are generally 2 extremes: when a Christian forgets to communicate with God on daily basis, and when he prays so much, that he forgets his other responsibilities (studying, working, caring about other people, etc).

I used to pray 30-60 minutes every morning both in tongues and with my mind when i was young Christian. Later is started more and more pray occasionally (when i did other things, or walked, or some problem motivated me to pray it). In other words: i started to pray more while doing other things, and less in specifical times.

We can also discuss what is the prayer? I don't think that we can limit it with time when we talk with God only. Prayer is also being focused on God, thinking about Him, being open to His voice 24 hours/7 days basis. So while it's good to have some specific time when you focus on prayer, you should be able to develop something similar what Paul meant when he wrote: "Pray always". We know that we cannot be always in our prayer chamber, but we can be prayer-minded (or better say: God-minded) all the time.

[misterguss]

After years of that, I basically decided that I should talk to God the way that I talk to people. That means if veries greatly with the subject and my mood.
I'm truly sorry to hear this. If a person prays according to their mood, then their prayer life is selfish and shallow. Where did you ever learn to do anything by how you feel?

[misterguss]

Pray as much and as often as you can...

or... "Pray without ceasing" 1 Thes 5:17 (NASB).
Ok...this is true...but what exactly does this mean on a day-to-day basis? Do you think you can have deep, meaningful prayer if you pray 30 sec. prayers all day long? If so, why did Jesus pray for hours at a time?

If not, should you have a set time for prayer that allows you to get deep with God and then pray throughout the day?

I know prayer is to be spirit-led...but I am wondering what your thoughts are on a deeper level....thanks.

[learning]

I've heard a saying, 'the more I have to do, the more time I need to spend in prayer'

I think that Jesus should be our example. I think it was great that He knew enough to get away and pray for awhile. When He had a big decision to make, (like before He picked His disciples) He was up all night in prayer. If HE needed to do that, I think we should too. I'm not saying I do right now, but I hope to get back to at least a half hour to hour of prayer. When I spent an hour in prayer, I felt much stronger. I know that there are circumstances that make people busy, etc. I also know that when I was working shift work when I was younger, it messed up my prayer schedule. A lady in the church I was going to talked of how she would set her alarm for 2 a.m in the morning to get up and pray when she had little kids, cause that was the only time she could be sure they wouldn't be interferring with her prayer life. I really thought a lot of her dedication to do that.

[Amazing Rando]

Ok...this is true...but what exactly does this mean on a day-to-day basis? Do you think you can have deep, meaningful prayer if you pray 30 sec. prayers all day long? If so, why did Jesus pray for hours at a time?

If not, should you have a set time for prayer that allows you to get deep with God and then pray throughout the day?

I know prayer is to be spirit-led...but I am wondering what your thoughts are on a deeper level....thanks.

I liked what Cyrus had to say in this thread. What I would recommend is not limiting what you call "prayer" to just a devoted time each day that you're alone in conversation with God. That's only part of it. As I understand the biblical model of prayer, it's more of a lifestyle than an activity. We live prayer.

By this, I mean greeting God first thing in the morning when you wake up, acknowleding his presence as often as you can throughout the day, stuff like that. One important part of prayer for me is simply trying to focus my thoughts on him as much as is physically possible during the course of the day. Even taking 20 seconds before a meal to acknowledge that he is there with you is prayer.

There are so many different kinds of prayers to be prayed too. There's of course, the verbal prayer, in which we praise and thank God with our minds and ask his intercession in our lives. There's the prayer of silence, in which we simply sit quietly and allow him to speak to us. Then there's the living prayer, in which we act out on our gratitude for him for saving and loving us. E.g. when we volunteer our time, our gifts, or our talents in the service of others, as long as we're doing it for God, I consider that to be a prayer. As I said, I think of prayer as more of a lifestyle than an activity. It helps me more. This model may not work for everyone, but that's the beauty of creation. We all have our own unique gifts and abilities to serve him and my prayer may not be enough for you in certain areas.

I'd just caution you against telling yourself that you must spend a certain amount of time in prayer each day. Doing so may stifle your prayer life rather than encouraging it. As I said, it's different with each person, but as long as you strive toward the ideal of loving God with all your heart, soul, and mind, then you'll do well.

[misterguss]

I'd just caution you against telling yourself that you must spend a certain amount of time in prayer each day. Doing so may stifle your prayer life rather than encouraging it. As I said, it's different with each person, but as long as you strive toward the ideal of loving God with all your heart, soul, and mind, then you'll do well.
I agree with what you said and thank you for your point of view. The only reason I bring up the issue of time is that if I pray short prayers all day long, I never get real with God. Unless I spend at least 30 min. a day to pray, my prayers do acknowledge my submission to God, but I never get deep. I do understand that every person is different and maybe I am just wired different than you.

Not to question your prayer life, because that is between you and God, but do you ever spend more than a few minutes in prayer? Since Jesus is our model for prayer and He spent hours in prayer, shouldn't we do the same?

[TrinityKicker]

I'm truly sorry to hear this. If a person prays according to their mood, then their prayer life is selfish and shallow. Where did you ever learn to do anything by how you feel?You never answered my question about what you meant by 'true spiritual growth.'

I didn't post that I prayed according to my mood. I posted that the length of time I spend in prayer varies depending on my topic and my mood. It seems to me that you are going to have some dogmatic rules for deciding how long prayer should be (Maybe 1 hour to repent for lying and 5 hours to ask for help meeting the bills?).

Also, my mood and 'how I feel' are two different things, but you seemed to use them interchangibly. For instance, right now I feel threatened by the accusation and hurt by the insinuation that my prayer life (an important part of my walk with Christ) selfish and shallow. Your post induced my feeling this way. However, I have considerably more control over my mood. I can even 'get in the mood' for something if I have planned for it.

I come from a Catholic background (St Paul's Apostle Academy, Davenport Iowa), but I am no longer Catholic. I have prayed dogmatically and I have prayed habitually. Now, I pray because I want to converse with God and I find it very pleasurable. I hope everyone can experience that.

Now, I would really appreciate it if you would answer my question from my last post. What do you mean by 'true spiritual growth'?

Also, you post said that praying for longer periods of time made your relationship with God 'completely different.' How is it completely different? Are you more saved now that you were before? Were you not saved before? Do you think that maybe you just 'feel' better about your relationship with God and that 'feeling' promted your post?

Honestly, I only half expect that you'll answer my group of questions since you didn't answer my one question last time, but my curiousity is genuine.

[Jezz]

Ok...this is true...but what exactly does this mean on a day-to-day basis? Do you think you can have deep, meaningful prayer if you pray 30 sec. prayers all day long? If so, why did Jesus pray for hours at a time?
Rando nailed it when he said that we are to "pray without ceasing". The Orthodox take this command very seriously.

The Orthodox have a practice that they use to encourage continuous prayer. Basically, you have a short prayer that you use as a sort of "mantra". You consciously repeat it over and over again - especially in times of temptation. What happens after a while is that you continue to say the prayer subconsciously (you know how you sometimes get a song stuck in your head that you can't stop singing? :smile:). At times of temptation the prayer will bubble up from the subconscious into the consciousness again - thereby helping to set your mind back on God and to avoid the temptation you are being presented with.

A very common prayer used as this mantra is the "Jesus prayer", which is "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner." This is a very simple prayer and yet very profound and deep, as it encompasses all of the following essentials of the Gospel:

1. Acknowledging that Christ is our Lord.
2. Acknowledging that Christ is the Son of God.
3. Acknowledging that we are sinners and in need of mercy.
4. An actual act of repentance in that we ask for mercy from Christ.

If not, should you have a set time for prayer that allows you to get deep with God and then pray throughout the day?
Yes, you should have both.

The Orthodox take this very seriously too. They have set times at which you should pray. There is a Psalm (I forget which one) that says "Seven times a day I will praise you", and they take this literally as a command to pray seven times a day. Ideally, if you are Orthodox you will pray at each of the 7 allotted times (eg, in an Orthodox monastery). Those for whom real life gets in the way do the best that they can. Most dedicated Orthodox will at least pray first thing in the morning and last thing at night.

As a matter of fact, did you know that the Muslim prayer practice is something that they borrowed from the Orthodox Christians? Fixed prayer times, prostrations, etc - these are all things that the Muslims copied from the Orthodox.

I know prayer is to be spirit-led...but I am wondering what your thoughts are on a deeper level....thanks.
Jesus also said that we are to worship God with all our mind, body and soul. The Orthodox also take this very seriously. Hence, Orthodox prayer is more than just saying words inside your head. It involves all the senses - icons for the eye, incense for the nose, bowing and prostrations for the body and sense of touch, praying out loud for the ear, etc... Have a look at the thread in Ecclesiology on icon corners (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44392) - it gives you an idea about how Orthodox prayer tends to try and create an atmosphere for prayer, in order to deepen the experience and worship God with the whole body.

Another thing to note about Orthodox prayer is that people are generally discouraged from making up their own prayers. This is because as individuals we tend to say selfish prayers - asking for things we don't really need, asking for things we shouldn't be, etc. The Orthodox are encouraged to use prayers that have been written by the great saints of the Church, and have stood the test of time, and will promote spiritual growth rather than selfishness. Note that the Orthodox do not rule out creativity in prayer altogether (there is a gap in my Morning and Evening prayers where you can insert special requests that you adapt to current events), but rather that for the main part your prayer life should be disciplined in using good prayers.

What you need to remember is that the purpose of prayer is, at its core, communion with God. God already knows your wants and needs (better than you do yourself), so its not as if the purpose of prayer is to fill Him in on some missing bits of information...

Hope that this helps.

[learning]

Amazing Rando, there is a camp I know of that takes their name from that Proverb
'In all thy ways acknowledge Him and He shall direct thy paths.'
IAWAH stands for In All Ways Acknowledge Him, and this is great. I find that when I have something to do, that acknowleging He is sovereign helps. It doesn't mean we don't do something, often, I find, that I am like a car. I have to get moving in some direction for Him to direct me. (You can't turn the wheels of a car very well when it is sitting still) I think that if we trust Him, He'll do so. I don't think we need to get legalistic about prayer, but use both private time alone with Him in the closet (as Jesus said) and all day to spend in prayer, whether that's whispering praise, crying out for help (Like grant me patience, now! :) ), or like Brother Lawrence, practising the presence of God. It is like 'abiding in the vine' and some of it we'll need to keep reminding ourselves of His word, and other times, when we are busy, He will graciously remind us if we acknowledge Him.

[misterguss]

The Orthodox have a practice that they use to encourage continuous prayer. Basically, you have a short prayer that you use as a sort of "mantra". You consciously repeat it over and over again - especially in times of temptation. What happens after a while is that you continue to say the prayer subconsciously (you know how you sometimes get a song stuck in your head that you can't stop singing? :smile:). At times of temptation the prayer will bubble up from the subconscious into the consciousness again - thereby helping to set your mind back on God and to avoid the temptation you are being presented with.

A very common prayer used as this mantra is the "Jesus prayer", which is "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner." This is a very simple prayer and yet very profound and deep, as it encompasses all of the following essentials of the Gospel:

1. Acknowledging that Christ is our Lord.
2. Acknowledging that Christ is the Son of God.
3. Acknowledging that we are sinners and in need of mercy.
4. An actual act of repentance in that we ask for mercy from Christ.



This is very practical, especially in times of temptation...culturally, I've not been exposed to this, but I think this could be very powerful...

Thanks for sharing your point of view!

[Jezz]

Those for whom real life gets in the way do the best that they can.
(Emphasis added.)

:frown: That was an absolutely terrible way to word what I was trying to say. It implies that praying is not "real life", and that, conversely, this-worldly pursuits that prevent us from prayer are "real life". :doh: It is, of course, the other way around...

Lord forgive me!

[Amazing Rando]

I agree with what you said and thank you for your point of view. The only reason I bring up the issue of time is that if I pray short prayers all day long, I never get real with God. Unless I spend at least 30 min. a day to pray, my prayers do acknowledge my submission to God, but I never get deep. I do understand that every person is different and maybe I am just wired different than you.

Not to question your prayer life, because that is between you and God, but do you ever spend more than a few minutes in prayer?

I'm learning to now, and am reaping the benefits! It's beautiful when you can
lay yourself bare to the Lord like that.

Since Jesus is our model for prayer and He spent hours in prayer, shouldn't we do the same?

:smile: One thing you'll notice is that Jesus, during his ministry, didn't have a paying job and wasn't trying to provide for a family. There were other greater concerns on his mind than trivial ones like that!

[misterguss]

I'm learning to now, and am reaping the benefits! It's beautiful when you can
lay yourself bare to the Lord like that.
Awesome! Keep it up.



:smile: One thing you'll notice is that Jesus, during his ministry, didn't have a paying job and wasn't trying to provide for a family. There were other greater concerns on his mind than trivial ones like that!
God's will for some people is to have a paying job and provide for their family...and God's will for Jesus was to live a perfect life, teach the apostles how to make disciples, die for sins, etc. No matter what God's will for our lives are, no matter how large or small it may seem, we are to live as Jesus lived...and I don't think we should compromise praying for hours (when led by the Holy Spirit) just as Jesus did, even if God's will for our lives may seem trivial.

[Cello]

The church now has 1,400 members in a town of 1,700 people. Why? Because Mr. Duke decided to take a few hours out of his day to pray...
Is that really a logical conclusion? Correlation does not always equal causation and the fact that he prayed could be a coincidence that coincided with God's plan of growth for this church.

Prayer is not meant to be a shoping list.

I think you are on to something though when you talk about the amount of time we spend talking to God (prayer) and our level of intimacy or relationship with God. Surely if someone doesnt' talk to God at all their level of intimacy with God isn't going to be the same as someone who DOES speak with God.

However, I wouldn't put too many constraints on that. There are people who have learned to talk to God all day -- in the back of their head while they are doing other things -- kind of a constant prayer life. There are those who don't give God much thought except for an hour each morning.

Personally, I like to touch base with God all day. And keep 'up to the minute' on things....when things come up that require more updating or more discussion, then there are prolonged 'sessions'.....

Have you ever read or heard of the book "pray with your eyes open" by Pratt? (richard pratt? john pratt? not sure.....

I have just begun reading it...

[misterguss]

Is that really a logical conclusion? Correlation does not always equal causation and the fact that he prayed could be a coincidence that coincided with God's plan of growth for this church.

Prayer is not meant to be a shoping list.
Though I do agree with your caution about the purpose of prayer, but I never said he prayed that his church would grow in numbers i.e. an item on a shopping list. All he did was finally submit to the Holy Spirit's conviction to change his prayer life around and the moment he did that...the result was his church grew immensely. Does God work that way in every case...no...but I believe the church growth was due to him obeyed God by changing his prayer life.

Personally, I like to touch base with God all day. And keep 'up to the minute' on things....when things come up that require more updating or more discussion, then there are prolonged 'sessions'.....

Have you ever read or heard of the book "pray with your eyes open" by Pratt? (richard pratt? john pratt? not sure.....
I agree that one should have both in their prayer life...keeping their focus on Him all day long and having prolonged "sessions" where you can speak and listen...both are very important! I'm glad to hear you take your prayer life serious.

I have never heard of it...but I will look it up. What do ya think of it so far?

[Cello]

I have never heard of it...but I will look it up. What do ya think of it so far?
Regarding the book...to be honest, at first I was a bit put off by it...discussing the words we use and all -- I don't know, it seemed 'mechanical' but I pressed on and in getting past the preface and into the first chapter I can see more where he is going. I will update after I read more...I have not had oportunity to pick it upf or a few days.

[misterguss]

I think God has recently given me a greater understanding of prayer...

Prayer is communication with God...and proper communication takes both speaking and listening.

I think a lot of maturing Christians do a lot of talking with God but not a lot of listening...I know I was this way!

"Pray without ceasing....pray without ceasing...pray without ceasing." I hear this a lot...and I think many people think this is referring to the act of talking to God and/or having a prayerful mind and attitude. This is why I hear many people say they pray short prayers all day long...

But it is rare to hear someone place the importance of praying for hours at a time...even though it is very clear that Jesus did this many times.
I have found in my personal relationship with God that, though praying short prayers/having an attitude of prayer all day long is important, a set prayer time of more than 30 sec. or a few minutes is very important. This is where listening comes in. A person cannot truly listen to God unless they take the time to listen...and short prayers all day long isn't going to allow a person to listen properly.

When it comes down to it...praying without ceasing is an act of our submission and communication to God...and taking about (though I know it's hard to put a time on it) 30 minutes-a few hours is time for reflection and listening. A person needs both types of prayer in order to grow!

Some may disagree with me...but I challenge any of you to do this...and your relationship with God won't be the same.

That's what I've learned recently regarding the issue of prayer...hope it encourages some of ya!