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Jorge
11-26-2014, 03:48 AM
Nope, I have not forgotten the guys and gals here at TWeb. I'm on 'vacation' from this place because I just couldn't take "it" any longer. By "it" I mean the ever-pervasive lunacy of certain TWebbers (they know who they are) who believe -- and want others to believe -- that they speak "science" when in fact they are merely promoting their Faith. And since their Faith is actually unadulterated nonsense ... there you go!

I only returned to share this 7.5-minute hilarious skit because, upon viewing it, TWeb immediately came into my mind. The skit illustrates several aspects of my frustrations here at TWeb.

In this skit I'm very well represented by the Asian "expert" and the rest of the group are those certain TWebber "science" representatives/speakers that I alluded to. The out-of-this-world experience of the Asian guy reminded me of many of my own experiences with those TWebbers. I too often felt daffled, drained and discouraged ... walking away "agreeing" that, "it's possible to draw seven red, perpendicular lines with transparent ink" just so that the nightmare would end. [Think of Evolution as the "product" and the promotion of it ...]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

Finally, I read some of the latest threads / posts here and quickly noticed that nothing has changed ... nay, it's gotten worse! Oh well, what else should I have expected?

Do try harder, folks. The Truth IS there if you will genuinely seek.

By the way, my work on Information Theory continues. You'll know when I'm done.

You'all be good and stay out of trouble. Happy Thanksgiving!

Jorge

Cow Poke
11-26-2014, 04:15 AM
Nope, I have not forgotten the guys and gals here at TWeb. I'm on 'vacation' from this place because I just couldn't take "it" any longer. By "it" I mean the ever-pervasive lunacy of certain TWebbers...

This is about me again, isn't it? :sad:

Jorge
11-26-2014, 04:50 AM
Nope, not at all. It's about many/most TWebbers but you aren't amongst those.

Hope you enjoyed the skit. I laughed hysterically as I saw myself amongst the facial expressions of the Asian guy being "mobbed" by the group. I'm not making this up : many times when I read certain TWeb posts (on Evolution, Information Theory and other topics) I had precisely those expressions on my face. It's a terrifying feeling - as if one had suddenly woken up on Bizzaro World! :hehe:

Jorge

shunyadragon
11-26-2014, 05:20 AM
The wingless Turkey with four legs has evolved in time for Thanksgiving!!!!!

Jorge
11-26-2014, 07:27 AM
The wingless Turkey with four legs has evolved in time for Thanksgiving!!!!!

Huh??? Whatever the heck that means. :huh:

Hope you enjoyed the skit and, yes, in case you're wondering, you were one of those that made me scratch my head on more than one occasion.

Jorge

shunyadragon
11-26-2014, 07:51 AM
Huh??? Whatever the heck that means. :huh:

Hope you enjoyed the skit and, yes, in case you're wondering, you were one of those that made me scratch my head on more than one occasion.

Jorge

That is one of my purposes in life is to make people scratch their heads. Just don't do it until it bleeds.

rwatts
11-26-2014, 12:29 PM
Nope, I have not forgotten the guys and gals here at TWeb. I'm on 'vacation' from this place because I just couldn't take "it" any longer. By "it" I mean the ever-pervasive lunacy of certain TWebbers (they know who they are) who believe -- and want others to believe -- that they speak "science" when in fact they are merely promoting their Faith. And since their Faith is actually unadulterated nonsense ... there you go!

I only returned to share this 7.5-minute hilarious skit because, upon viewing it, TWeb immediately came into my mind. The skit illustrates several aspects of my frustrations here at TWeb.

In this skit I'm very well represented by the Asian "expert" and the rest of the group are those certain TWebber "science" representatives/speakers that I alluded to. The out-of-this-world experience of the Asian guy reminded me of many of my own experiences with those TWebbers. I too often felt daffled, drained and discouraged ... walking away "agreeing" that, "it's possible to draw seven red, perpendicular lines with transparent ink" just so that the nightmare would end. [Think of Evolution as the "product" and the promotion of it ...]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

Finally, I read some of the latest threads / posts here and quickly noticed that nothing has changed ... nay, it's gotten worse! Oh well, what else should I have expected?

Do try harder, folks. The Truth IS there if you will genuinely seek.

By the way, my work on Information Theory continues. You'll know when I'm done.

You'all be good and stay out of trouble. Happy Thanksgiving!

Jorge
Hello Jorge,

I'm writing this to say:-

Happy Thanksgiving to you. (We don't celebrate it here in Oz. However you have a good one.)

AND

To put a plug in for my latest essay explaining aspects of evolution and how these are tested:-

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?4474-Experimental-evolution-Testing-Darwin-regarding-the-origin-of-multicellularity-%26%238232%3B

Well, it's my best understanding, put it that way.

If you will follow the essay, then you will learn how testing of hypotheses is done with respect to the origin of multicellularity. The experiment was nifty, but what fascinated me was the insight of the experimenters to come up with a counter intuitive notion and show how it might help multicellular "organisms" procreate after their own deaths. This brings into play a Darwinian variation+selection scenario operating at the level of the organism (as opposed to the level of the individual cell), thereby allowing the organism to evolve. The counter intuitive aspect of this was that cheat cells (which ultimately destroy the organism) end up playing the role of primitive germ/sex cells.

Anyway, have a good day, and don't forget to read my essays while you are enjoying the turkey.

Jorge
11-26-2014, 02:26 PM
Hello Jorge,

I'm writing this to say:-

Happy Thanksgiving to you. (We don't celebrate it here in Oz. However you have a good one.)

AND

To put a plug in for my latest essay explaining aspects of evolution and how these are tested:-

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?4474-Experimental-evolution-Testing-Darwin-regarding-the-origin-of-multicellularity-%26%238232%3B

Well, it's my best understanding, put it that way.

If you will follow the essay, then you will learn how testing of hypotheses is done with respect to the origin of multicellularity. The experiment was nifty, but what fascinated me was the insight of the experimenters to come up with a counter intuitive notion and show how it might help multicellular "organisms" procreate after their own deaths. This brings into play a Darwinian variation+selection scenario operating at the level of the organism (as opposed to the level of the individual cell), thereby allowing the organism to evolve. The counter intuitive aspect of this was that cheat cells (which ultimately destroy the organism) end up playing the role of primitive germ/sex cells.

Anyway, have a good day, and don't forget to read my essays while you are enjoying the turkey.

Good grief, man, don't you have a life?!? :dizzy:

Figuratively speaking, a turkey hatching today will be ready for Thanksgiving 2015 by the time you finish your "dissertation" post. While I appreciate the work you've put into it, I can easily anticipate what it's all about : Faith statements labeled as "science".

Maybe I'll take a look later, when you're done ...

Hope you enjoyed the 7.5-minute skit from the OP.
I've watched it 3-4 times now and it's uncanny how
much of my TWeb experience it managed to capture.

Jorge

Roy
11-26-2014, 02:54 PM
In this skit I'm very well represented by the Asian "expert" ...:lol::lol::lol:

Roy

"What we want is four beach-front houses, and we want one of them to be in Kansas."

rwatts
11-26-2014, 03:38 PM
Good grief, man, don't you have a life?!? :dizzy:

Good heavens Jorge, I do. I still work. I am a grandparent (so there are a lot of dangerous riot control duties to undertake). I am busy renovating my house and yard. And I do have a small group of friends.

This is just a very active hobby of mine.


Figuratively speaking, a turkey hatching today will be ready for Thanksgiving 2015 by the time you finish your "dissertation" post.

No, I think I will have it up well before Christimas. This year that is.


While I appreciate the work you've put into it, I can easily anticipate what it's all about : Faith statements labeled as "science".?

No. They are actually testing a specific scenario. The scenario itself is hypothetical but very plausible. I'm leaving their scenario till near the end however, because there was something a bit odd about one aspect of it.


Maybe I'll take a look later, when you're done ...You have no need to fear. I won't hold my breath.


Hope you enjoyed the 7.5-minute skit from the OP.
I've watched it 3-4 times now and it's uncanny how
much of my TWeb experience it managed to capture.

JorgeActually, I haven't watched it. I just popped in to say "Gidday" and point you to my latest essay. Did you see the one on the evolution of regulatory regions? I learnt a lot by trying to describe it. For example I now understand what modularization is, and why it allows complex evolution to happen a lot more easily.

rwatts
11-26-2014, 10:51 PM
In this skit I'm very well represented by the Asian "expert" and the rest of the group are those certain TWebber "science" representatives/speakers that I alluded to. :lol:

After looking at the video Jorge, I agree with Roy.

And by the above, you flatter yourself far too much.

Jorge
11-27-2014, 02:51 AM
:lol::lol::lol:

Roy

"What we want is four beach-front houses, and we want one of them to be in Kansas."

"El Moron" steps into the scene. :stupid: sigh ... It was bound to happen! :sad:

Jorge

Jorge
11-27-2014, 02:55 AM
Good heavens Jorge, I do. I still work. I am a grandparent (so there are a lot of dangerous riot control duties to undertake). I am busy renovating my house and yard. And I do have a small group of friends.

This is just a very active hobby of mine.



No, I think I will have it up well before Christimas. This year that is.

?

No. They are actually testing a specific scenario. The scenario itself is hypothetical but very plausible. I'm leaving their scenario till near the end however, because there was something a bit odd about one aspect of it.

You have no need to fear. I won't hold my breath.

Actually, I haven't watched it. I just popped in to say "Gidday" and point you to my latest essay. Did you see the one on the evolution of regulatory regions? I learnt a lot by trying to describe it. For example I now understand what modularization is, and why it allows complex evolution to happen a lot more easily.

I appreciate your Faith in Evolution but, just in case no one has told you, you cannot make things true just by wishing them to be so. And, please, do not even try the childish prank of trying to turn the tables on me with that last remark (i.e., by claiming the same thing about God).

Jorge

Jorge
11-27-2014, 02:56 AM
:lol:

After looking at the video Jorge, I agree with Roy.

And by the above, you flatter yourself far too much.

From the above post, clearly it went waaaayyyy above your head.

Doesn't matter ... I certainly made the connection and have added
that skit into my collection of classics. :smile:

Jorge

seer
11-27-2014, 03:01 AM
In this skit I'm very well represented by the Asian "expert" and the rest of the group are those certain TWebber "science" representatives/speakers that I alluded to. The out-of-this-world experience of the Asian guy reminded me of many of my own experiences with those TWebbers. I too often felt daffled, drained and discouraged ... walking away "agreeing" that, "it's possible to draw seven red, perpendicular lines with transparent ink" just so that the nightmare would end. [Think of Evolution as the "product" and the promotion of it ...]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

This reminds me of some production meetings I was in...

firstfloor
11-27-2014, 04:31 AM
The Truth IS there if you will genuinely seek.I think we greatly underestimate how good an education needs to be before people drop the apparently obvious concept that the sun revolves about the earth to take up the much less obvious understanding that the earth spins in space. And it is exactly the same with many other ideas that have been taught to us by science like plate tectonics and the age of rocks and fossil fuels. They are definitely not obvious. But you would not be able to land a spacecraft on a comet unless the method of discovery that you use is providing a true description of reality. It cannot be done by guessing.

HMS_Beagle
11-27-2014, 07:22 AM
In this skit I'm very well represented by the Asian "expert" and the rest of the group are those certain TWebber "science" representatives/speakers that I alluded to.
:chicken:

Yeah, just like you are the "expert" on meteor / asteroid impacts, star formation, the fossil record, C14 dating.

:rofl: :lmbo: :lol: :rofl: :lmbo: :lol: :rofl: :lmbo: :lol: :rofl: :lmbo: :lol:

rwatts
11-27-2014, 10:31 AM
...you cannot make things true just by wishing them to be so. ...But we do have those experiments and observations Jorge:-

Experimental evolution. Testing Darwin regarding the origin of multicellularity.
 (http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?4474-Experimental-evolution-Testing-Darwin-regarding-the-origin-of-multicellularity-%26%238232%3B)

"The emerging principles of regulatory evolution" (http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?4041-quot-The-emerging-principles-of-regulatory-evolution-quot)

Dinosaur to bird tail transition. Testing the theory. Genetics and the fossil record. (http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?2965-Dinosaur-to-bird-tail-transition-Testing-the-theory-Genetics-and-the-fossil-record)

“DeNovo Origin of Human Protein-Coding Genes” or How Some New Genes Come About.
(http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?3460-%93DeNovo-Origin-of-Human-Protein-Coding-Genes%94-or-How-Some-New-Genes-Come-About)

As you showed on the one or two threads you briefly commented on, the best you had on offer was to tell me that I'm wrong and your reasons for this were nothing but rants.

Jorge
11-27-2014, 04:58 PM
But we do have those experiments and observations Jorge:-

Experimental evolution. Testing Darwin regarding the origin of multicellularity.
 (http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?4474-Experimental-evolution-Testing-Darwin-regarding-the-origin-of-multicellularity-%26%238232%3B)

"The emerging principles of regulatory evolution" (http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?4041-quot-The-emerging-principles-of-regulatory-evolution-quot)

Dinosaur to bird tail transition. Testing the theory. Genetics and the fossil record. (http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?2965-Dinosaur-to-bird-tail-transition-Testing-the-theory-Genetics-and-the-fossil-record)

“DeNovo Origin of Human Protein-Coding Genes” or How Some New Genes Come About.
(http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?3460-%93DeNovo-Origin-of-Human-Protein-Coding-Genes%94-or-How-Some-New-Genes-Come-About)

As you showed on the one or two threads you briefly commented on, the best you had on offer was to tell me that I'm wrong and your reasons for this were nothing but rants.

You et al. need to watch that 7.5-minute skit a few times. Focus on the facial expressions of the Asian guy - they're not only priceless but they exactly mimic my own expressions after I've read the posts of 'certain' TWEbbers - such as some of the posts above. Beagle Boy, just to cite one example, has left me dazed and bedaffled in utter disbelief on many an occasion. It's also clear that he is getting worse with age - pray for him (not that I think it'll help).

Jorge

rwatts
11-27-2014, 06:16 PM
... Focus on the facial expressions of the Asian guy - they're not only priceless but they exactly mimic my own expressions after I've read the posts ...So, how does the fact that you pull certain facial expressions on reading those essays mean that the essays are crap? How does the fact that you pull certain facial expressions on reading various posts mean that the posts are crap?

I just read your post and made the same expression. Therefore we can both conclude that you just wrote some nonsense, right Jorge?

klaus54
11-28-2014, 10:02 AM
Roland,

Bear in mind, fax is knot Jorge's forte.

K54

rwatts
11-28-2014, 12:29 PM
Roland,

Bear in mind, fax is knot Jorge's forte.

K54I continue to hope that Jorge might pray for himself one day, pray that he might be granted the ability to actually address the points posters do make to him.

Should it happen, then it would be a blessed relief for us all, and Jorge might actually learn something.

Then we could all go :yipee: and take Jorge to the pub and :ale:

Naturally, because Jorge only drinks water, he would be the one on the left. I would be the one on the right. :blush:

Jorge
11-29-2014, 02:18 AM
So, how does the fact that you pull certain facial expressions on reading those essays mean that the essays are crap? How does the fact that you pull certain facial expressions on reading various posts mean that the posts are crap?

I just read your post and made the same expression. Therefore we can both conclude that you just wrote some nonsense, right Jorge?

Nope! The facial expressions must be justifiable - mine are, yours aren't.
Needless to say, you will not agree with that statement so just leave it alone.
Suffice it to say that I have many years of dealing with you and others here
on TWeb. My claims of being justified are amply supported. In your case,
you're just a Faithful Religious Fanatic that thinks he's based on "pure science".

Jorge

Jorge
11-29-2014, 02:20 AM
I continue to hope that Jorge might pray for himself one day, pray that he might be granted the ability to actually address the points posters do make to him.

Should it happen, then it would be a blessed relief for us all, and Jorge might actually learn something.

Then we could all go :yipee: and take Jorge to the pub and :ale:

Naturally, because Jorge only drinks water, he would be the one on the left. I would be the one on the right. :blush:

I will never cease to be astonished at the projection exhibited by you people.

Jorge

Jorge
11-29-2014, 02:22 AM
Roland,

Bear in mind, fax is knot Jorge's forte.

K54

Hey, Santa Klaus, shouldn't you be getting ready for ....................

Oops, my bad, I was thinking of the OTHER Santa :blush:

Jorge

Roy
11-29-2014, 05:38 AM
Nope! The facial expressions must be justifiable - mine are, yours aren't.Wow! Jorge has discovered a whole new logical fallacy, which can be summed up as 'You are wrong because I made a funny face'.

I'm going to call it Argumentum ad gurning.

I've added it to the fallacies discussion page on Wikipedia, and forwarded it to FSTDT as well.

Jorge will be famous!

Roy

rwatts
11-29-2014, 11:33 AM
I will never cease to be astonished at the projection exhibited by you people.

Jorge
Several of us did discuss Gitt's first law of information here:-

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?4059-Gitt%92s-First-Law-of-Information

I believe you had a hand in all this.

You will note that, while there was some "mouthing off", we often raised what we thought were valid points against it, and explained why we thought our arguments were reasonable.

I've yet to see you criticise any of my essays beyond offering something that goes as follows (me paraphrasing) - "Roland, your essays are silly because they are nonsense. You idiots simply don't understand because you are blind to the faith of evolution."

It does not ever get beyond that.

So your accusation of "projection" is simply silly.

lilpixieofterror
11-30-2014, 05:50 AM
Nope, I have not forgotten the guys and gals here at TWeb. I'm on 'vacation' from this place because I just couldn't take "it" any longer. By "it" I mean the ever-pervasive lunacy of certain TWebbers (they know who they are) who believe -- and want others to believe -- that they speak "science" when in fact they are merely promoting their Faith. And since their Faith is actually unadulterated nonsense ... there you go!

You mean that you couldn't take people proving you wrong all the time. Don't worry, I understand how damaging that must be for your ego.

Signed,
One of those 'ever-pervasive lunacy' Twebbers

phank
11-30-2014, 11:44 AM
You mean that you couldn't take people proving you wrong all the time. Don't worry, I understand how damaging that must be for your ego.

Signed,
Someone in the same boat, who reacts the same way you do.

lilpixieofterror
11-30-2014, 03:02 PM
Someone in the same boat, who reacts the same way you do.

More unintended irony there phank? You say stupid things about religion all the time and often are compared to an atheist version of Jorge. Keep digging though; Europe isn't far off.

oxmixmudd
12-01-2014, 08:09 AM
I will never cease to be astonished at the projection exhibited by you people.

Jorge

Hi Jorge,

Sorry you feel the world doesn't hear you. Perhaps a little introspection as to why it feels that way might be an idea?

That is, explore the possibility, no matter how remote, that you might, just might, maybe, be at least part of the problem.

Could be you know ... certainly the consensus here is that you spend most of your time avoiding real answers.

Do you suppose it makes sense that ALL the readers, including OEC's and some YE's, are just plain wrong?

I mean - if you are wrong - how would you find out except by listening to those that disagree with you?

I mean, that was the problem with the false prophets. They just told the king what he wanted to hear. So if you only listen to the guys that already think the way you do ... and you guys are wrong .......





Jim

phank
12-01-2014, 02:16 PM
Hi Jorge,

Sorry you feel the world doesn't hear you. Perhaps a little introspection as to why it feels that way might be an idea?
Jim

We're back to the great Ham 'n' Nye debate.
Q: if you should happen to be wrong, what could convince you to suspect this?
Nye: Evidence.
Ham: Nothing.

ChaosRain
12-02-2014, 01:22 AM
I do wish that TWeb had an option to put either a "Faith", or a "Disbelief". Perhaps merely having "Belief" and "Disbelief" would work best; Faith by itself can be misleading when providing the option for atheism and such things. Causes some confusion.

phank
12-02-2014, 12:45 PM
I do wish that TWeb had an option to put either a "Faith", or a "Disbelief". Perhaps merely having "Belief" and "Disbelief" would work best; Faith by itself can be misleading when providing the option for atheism and such things. Causes some confusion.

Well, we all work with mental models of reality. Nobody's model can be complete, probably nobody's can be fully accurate either. Models are full of holes which we fill in by interpolation to make the models (more or less) self-consistent. But we must live as though those interpolations are actual data points - that is, we take our interpolations on faith. So I suppose you could say that the "disbeliever" is one who doesn't find it necessary to patch up his model with magic (the "supernatural") as some do, or doesn't find it necessary to find some way to paste in a heavy dollop of magic where it doesn't fit (usually by means of compartmentalization).

Think of various religious traditions as whole complex hypotheses that believers in other traditions have no need of. Factor out all the traditions not needed by some society or other, and we discover that "Belief" is parochial and superfluous.

lilpixieofterror
12-02-2014, 04:12 PM
We're back to the great Ham 'n' Nye debate.
Q: if you should happen to be wrong, what could convince you to suspect this?
Nye: Evidence.
Ham: Nothing.

Yep because everybody knows that only theist can be blinded by ideology. :ahem: