Cutting or Self-Injury

[Cello]

OK, I am trying to step out more (on the internet) and share more of who I am and what things are going on with me (us) knowing that some people will misunderstand, judge, condemn..e.tc. and I just need to overlook that and cling to the people who are here to help and bless.

So, here goes:

I found out in Nov that my daughter cut. To my knowledge she has only done this once.

Long story somewhat short - she has always gone to private school, until this year - 11th grade. Private school is no gaurantee of a safe environment nor buffer necessarily from the current culture etc...anyway, she was beginning to fall in with some of the "wrong" kids and has been wanting to go to public school for a bunch of years now...anyway, I finally decided to allow her. My thinking partly was remove her from some friends and more give her some exposure before she is 'tossed to the wolves' when she goes to college. So public school has been the WORST thing. No surprise you might be thinking. Anyway, she got in with an even worse bunch of kids - you know, they are so much more accepting and easier to fall in with,...

so she ends up cutting some classes then cutting a whole day of school (whicH I later find out she had her fist - and only - sexual encounter) and then a few days after I find out all that - I find out she also cut herself - witha razor -- that same night (after the hooking school sex day)

So what do you know about cutting?

I mean, I know a fair amount which is why I'm not totally freaking right now.....while we can know its not 'good' and its a sign of something, we I think are also coming to realize that is sort of like anorexia in a way..as in they can't alwasy just 'stop'....now anorexia is FAR more destructive...some people cut for YEARS and YEARS...

Anyway, just wondering what people know about cutting and see if there is any discussion to be had. I know there are some websites, and I've read up..really just looking for some personal/professional opinions which might be able to objectively look at the entire problem. (and not confined to my daughter but to the general phenomena of cutting...)

By the way, I should mention that I was a cutter as well. For at least several years...not daily - but on occassion. I still have scars - my dd does not know this. But I don't want this thread to be all about me and my daughter - I jsut offer that up in case anyone wants to ask me any question....

So there we have it.

:chat: talk it up...

[Cello]

"Fifty-one percent—that's how many respondents to our recent informal online poll (www.christianparenting.net (http://www.christianparenting.net/)) said they've either known someone who self-mutilates, did so themselves as a teen, or have a child who has been a "cutter." While the results of our poll aren't scientific, they do demonstrate parents need to be aware of this chilling trend. For a closer look at the problem of teen mutilation, read on. —the editors"

Article (http://http://www.christianitytoday.com/cpt/2004/004/9.34.html)

Oh and in case anyone wants it:

http://www.self-injury.org/

and
http://www.palace.net/~llama/psych/injury.html

[Sacrificial Ram]

By the way, I should mention that I was a cutter as well. For at least several years...not daily - but on occassion. I still have scars - my dd does not know this. But I don't want this thread to be all about me and my daughter - I jsut offer that up in case anyone wants to ask me any question....

So there we have it.

:chat: talk it up...
A friend's daughter (who has adopted me as a surrogate father) confessed to me she did cutting for a little bit. That was during a timeframe that she was under a termendous amount of stress. When the stress was releived, she stopped cutting herself.

It sounds like what triggered this particular incident could very well have been guilt.

[learning]

I know of someone who knows someone (I know, just trying to keep this anonymous somehow for them) that cut themselves. This girl told her friends that when she did it (in the shower, on her stomach) she would feel pain release as she saw the blood flow down. This sounded very serious to me, and her parents did find out and helped get her some counselling. I think this is so serious, it needs counselling. If she (your daughter) has told you, I think she is asking for help.
I'll pray.

There is another alternative, homeschooling. Not as some sort of punishment, but a way to give her time to heal until she's strong enough to face whatever she has to face out there. I've read of teens saying they felt so many pressures at school, and once they went home to school, they could be themselves and follow the path that their intellectual and other gifted areas would lead them to, not some regimented outline that wasn't suitable to their 'real' self.
Homeschooling, for some teens, is a wonderful way of life, I've heard. Some say they actually feel they are entering real life and not the artificial life of school. I don't homeschool, but I've read up on it.

[Undomiel]

I know of someone who knows someone (I know, just trying to keep this anonymous somehow for them) that cut themselves. This girl told her friends that when she did it (in the shower, on her stomach) she would feel pain release as she saw the blood flow down. This sounded very serious to me, and her parents did find out and helped get her some counselling. I think this is so serious, it needs counselling. If she (your daughter) has told you, I think she is asking for help.
I'll pray.

There is another alternative, homeschooling. Not as some sort of punishment, but a way to give her time to heal until she's strong enough to face whatever she has to face out there. I've read of teens saying they felt so many pressures at school, and once they went home to school, they could be themselves and follow the path that their intellectual and other gifted areas would lead them to, not some regimented outline that wasn't suitable to their 'real' self.
Homeschooling, for some teens, is a wonderful way of life, I've heard. Some say they actually feel they are entering real life and not the artificial life of school. I don't homeschool, but I've read up on it.

Very insightful and I have to agree with this analogy.

[Da Blonde]

It can have an erotic aspect, but generally not among teenagers-they're too immature to know what eros is. It is a social self-destructive behavior not unlike chemical abuse, fueled by peer interactions. It is most common among females. Counseling may be appropriate for her, but not with goal it should "fix" her. Elements of the family milleau, that is, aspects of relationships and all, may play some role. It is generally not associated with good self-esteem. OTOH it is widespread and a fad as such, so except for the danger aspect it is not as serious as most of us who recoil at the knowledge of it initially assume.

[theseed]

Cutting is usually and OCD thing, it is based on impulse control--just like eating disorders. There are psychologolical (vs. chemical) aspects as well. Cutters often seem to experiance guilt and depression when they cut. Also, they have a higher tolerance for pain. Those with Borderline Personality Disorder are often cutters.

[Stephen]

Since my best friend has been a cutter for a little over 2 years now, I know a bit about it.

There are a lot of misconceptions about it. The first and probably most frustrating is that when people cut, they are attempting suicide. That's what I thought when she first told me, and what most other friends she's told have thought as well. Fortunately, that seems to hardly ever be the case. Cutting is used as a way to relieve stress. In a way you can think of it as an alternative to suicide, not something complementing it.

Secondly, most people seem to think that people cut because they
a. want attention, or
b. want to feel in control
Even for months after knowing that my friend was a cutter, I thought B was true. Maybe with some people that's the reason, but to every cutter I've talked to, being addicted to something makes them feel less in control, not more. Once someone gets in the habit, it can be very hard to break it. They feel numb, their arms "itch", and they are frustrated because they feel they need something even though they know it hurts them.

So why do they cut? It seems to start because of curiosity. They've heard of a friend cutting, see a sharp thing with them, and think "maybe I'll try once to see if it works". But it isn't curiosity for long. It seems like stress, depression, and traumatic events all cause it to get worse, and make cutting more tempting. I tend to think of it like kicking a wall out of anger, or banging your head on a desk when you're frustrated; it relieves stress. But unlike kicking a wall, cutting adds guilt and frustration, not to mention the fear that they will be considered a freak or "masochist" by others.

In my friend's case, she was suffering with depression in the beginning, and cutting began getting worse. After a few bad incidents a year ago (which were not unlike Cello's daughter), the habit became worse. She's cut for so long, now she needs to cut deeper or more often to feel the pain.

Thankfully, she's finally breaking the addiction. The most uncomfortable thing about knowing someone who cuts, is knowing how to react when they tell you. I think it's important to not "freak out" about it, or always give them talks about how much you and your friends love them. Odds are they already know the severity of it, or they wouldn't have told you in the first place. If you can manage to listen to them when they tell you about cutting and not get incredibly worried, they'll learn to trust you with it. Once they trust you, it's easier to keep them accountable and help them try to stop. They don't want sympathy or empathy, they just need you to listen. Also, don't force help on them against their choosing, unless they reveal that they are also suicidal. I tried to get help for her a few times before, but they always failed miserably until she chose to go out and get help herself.

That's all I can think of at the moment. By the way, if your friend or daughter has started wearing only long-sleeves, or has a cat that "scratches" her a whole lot, you might want to talk to her about it.

[learning]

Yeah, that 'scratch' bit was the excuse this person used for why there were marks on her body. I have heard that some girls do it as a sort of protest, silently, about not being able to fit into the 'beautiful body' bit that our society gives girls, you know, you are nothing unless you are gorgeous sort of thing, from media, etc.

I agree that listening and letting someone talk is important. I first heard about 'cutting' as a thing that women in prison did, and it was thought of as an attention getting thing. But I have also heard of it as a thing that some people with brain injury did, and we were assured that it was not the same as suicidal.

I have heard that something this girl said when she went to a counselor and told her friends after words, was, the counselor said she was too hard on herself. And her friends said, 'Yeah, haven't we been telling you that.' So maybe it is a sort of self loathing thing too.

[Stephen]

Yeah, that 'scratch' bit was the excuse this person used for why there were marks on her body.
It's a very popular excuse, despite how unlikely it is that you have a vicious cat constantly on your arm...

I have heard that some girls do it as a sort of protest, silently, about not being able to fit into the 'beautiful body' bit that our society gives girls, you know, you are nothing unless you are gorgeous sort of thing, from media, etc.
I think people do it for a lot of different reasons. Suicidal, poor-self image, curiosity, stressed...cutting doesn't seem to be the main problem, as much as its the medium they use to express it.

I agree that listening and letting someone talk is important. I first heard about 'cutting' as a thing that women in prison did, and it was thought of as an attention getting thing. But I have also heard of it as a thing that some people with brain injury did, and we were assured that it was not the same as suicidal.

Both cases are probably true, but it's much more widespread than that. Just take one look at how many highschool girls wear sweaters on hot days, and you know that it affects more than the brain-damaged or prison-women. Unfortunately, because so many people find it shocking, it is a pretty delicate subject to talk about, which makes getting help for it harder.

I've never struggled with it, but I've been told that guys do as well...just not as commonly.

[Cello]

A friend's daughter (who has adopted me as a surrogate father) confessed to me she did cutting for a little bit. That was during a timeframe that she was under a termendous amount of stress. When the stress was releived, she stopped cutting herself.

It sounds like what triggered this particular incident could very well have been guilt.
I agree. There is all the underlying 'stuff' to consider of course...resolving the stress, coming up with different coping skills -- she's having a rough time all the way around and until she gets that all in order, I think she is going ot continue to have problems. Its like there is a conflict with what she sees around her and what the world tells her and what she was brought up with or what her internal morals are telling her. I think that is really where the problem is....

[Sacrificial Ram]

I agree. There is all the underlying 'stuff' to consider of course...resolving the stress, coming up with different coping skills -- she's having a rough time all the way around and until she gets that all in order, I think she is going ot continue to have problems. Its like there is a conflict with what she sees around her and what the world tells her and what she was brought up with or what her internal morals are telling her. I think that is really where the problem is....
It sounds like that she'll at least get emotional support from her home life, a very big plus there. Part of the young ladies problem I know what a strong lack of a stable home environment (her mother had just broken up with her
live-in boyfriend of 11 years, and they were living out of a hotel, and her mother had just been diagnosed with a serious chronic disease too).

The other person I know that had cut and discussed this with mentioned
she felt the cutting was easier to do as it went along, and viewed it in the
same manner as an addiction. Of course, the things that she had gone through to drive her to that would definately be harsher than most people could imagine.

[sylas]

I think I have this problem, to a minor extent. For me, it takes the form of scratching, invariably at a scab. The original injury is not self inflicted, but I do have a compulsion to pull off a scab. This is often painful, but I'll do it anyway; it often means that the scab persist for a long time, until eventually it clears up. Similarly I'll remove the skin around a burst blister, even if this expands the size of the blister.

My housemates are aware of this; if they notice me pulling at a scab while we watch TV or something of the kind, they make me stop. It doesn't bother me; I have not thought about it much. I'll read the thread with some interest.

I hope you are able to help with your daughter; that sounds serious. Alas, I am reading here to learn, and cannot give useful information to help. But for what it is worth, my thoughts are with you and your daughter.

Cheers -- Sylas

[Asgara]

I worked for several years in mental health services and have dealt with cutters quite a bit. Granted, most were borderline personalities.

Most have explained it to me as physical pain to take the mind off of emotional pain. It seems to be a form of stress release and anxiety control combined with poor coping skills. It can be exacerbated by feelings of guilt, especially relationship guilt.

Self-harm can be seen as calming. Some cutters have expressed the opinion that cutting stops more drastic forms of harm. Many cutters are extremely intelligent but also extremely sensitive.

Calm communication and proper therapy are needed for the serious cutters.

[Asgara]

I think I have this problem, to a minor extent.

Many people have this type of issue in one form or another. I personally chew my fingernails until they bleed. Its a coping mechanism, whether its coping with stress, boredom, unease, depression or anxiety. The lengths some of us will go to take our mind off our personal issues is comparative to the types of coping skills we learned when we were young.

[Macy109]

I am currently completing 8th grade, alot of people I know cut. I try to look at the psychological aspect of self-injury. The people who do, had lives they considered to be 'hard' or were angry/confused/lonely people. I believe cutting is something they do to relieve stress, take their mind off certain things like school. Cutting can also be a form of punishment, like their not good enough, smart or beautiful enough etc.

[BeHereNow]

How likely is it that the main reason people cut initially is because of what Stephen mentioned, about it being curiosity followed by addiction, and then the reasons such as depression, self-esteem, or image are tacked on to the act? I see it like smoking, where habitual smokers often say it's to relieve stress or because it makes them feel good.

I've read about situations where kids have formed support groups to intervent for a friend that cuts and eventually most people in the support group end up cutting, too.

[Spiritus Naturae]

I have worked with adolescents in a treatment facility (drug/alcohol) for 8 years and we have had quite a few 'cutters' in and out of our doors. The overwhelming majority have been female and their reason often times for the practice of cutting and mutilation is anger, frustration, stress etc. If given opportunity to sit and talk with them individually one would find an extreme sense of self loathing apparent in their conversation. They would invariably be very self absorbed as well, often times coming from a home where they recieved virtually no attention from family.

Now this is by no means the case in every 'cutter' situation, but one that was encountered in dealing with adolescents who found themselves addicted to drugs and alcohol. Many of them as well were diagnosed with bi-polar or borderline personality disorders. Their drug addictions would seem merely a symptom of this greater ailment.

[hopelessromance]

Speaking from the viewpoint of a friend that has witnessed this occir I feel like there are many things people should know. Two of my friends have been "cutters".
One of them, the first, cut starting fairly close to the time that he became a "pshyco" in the eyes of the town. Living in a small hick town as a punk can obviously have its reprocussions. He started getting called a fag daily and threatened even more often. He would cut and did so for a long time. Once he got so fed up with everything, going through that plus a breakup, he attempted suicide. He cut right in front of my friends and ran for the woods. They chased him and talked him down. Counselling cured him. Now he's an alcoholic.
The next felt like she wasn't wanted by anyone. I'm sure part of this was brought on by her always needing to be the centre of attention. At any rate when she wasn't seen as the most important person she would cut. She did it to make herself feel like she was in control of something in her life.
Your daugher may be either of these cases. I would aim more toward the first. Trouble at school. As she started the new school thats when the problems seemed to start. She found refuge in these friends and may have triedd what worked for them. It wasn't neccesarily wise but she may have found it effective.

[Cello]

Just wanted to thank everyone for sharing. I've had a lot going on over the past year and haven't stayed in tune with the forums....

As an update - while the cutting hasn't been a major issue with Princess since then, there have been a horde of other issues.....one reason I've been gone, just dealing with offline life.

As most know, cutting is just an outward sign that there are deeper inward struggles...one of the best things I can say is get help as soon as possible, and by that I mean not necessarily to 'treat' the cutting but to heal the person. Whatever is behind the cutting, whatever emotions are being experienced, they are real and need to be dealt with.

[kendal]

people who lash pot at themselves are really crying out for a deeper need.
I have been around some people who seem to think you should know how they feel or in a sense be able to read their minds without saying a word to you,but you can't. I don't know of many cutters,but more those who have talked about it. It can make you angry at first when it seems that they want all the attention in the world,but then again,they probably never got attention and were left out of things they really wanted to be a part of or included in.
Hurting people need a great deal of understanding,and if you don't understand,don't pretend that you can. If you want to understand,research the problem and do your best to be there.
I am trying to help people that have emotional problems,but it can hurt you in the process,because you want to know how to make their hurt lessen,and help them,and often times they push you away.
Some emotionally wounded people push you away to test you,and this is so hard to deal with. You try to make sense out of something that doesn't appear to make any sense at all on the surface.
many times we are not there when these people were being mistreated or somehow felt they were being treated badly. Most emotionally wounded people I have met had damage to them long before I met them. I wasn't there when it began so I cannot understand completely.
some of us are stronger and we cope somehow,while others can't.
Yet,we have to walk in their shoes awhile to truly try to understand.
It is very difficult to do that.
Don't give up on them,just try your best to be there if you can.