JW's and critical evaluations (Hey BarryRob..)

[Jin-Roh]

I had heard in a book by Josh McDowell that JW's are not allowed to examine literture on religion from non-JW's. Since I don't consider Josh McDowell the apex of evangelical scholarship, I'd be curious if this is true. I haven't gotten a clear answer from JW's yet though.

But, BarryRob, after reading many of your posts and responces I wonder if JW's are encouraged to evaluate and critically examine what they are taught and how to defend their beliefs with clear arguments and such. Or simply, can you really say that you're able to respond to other people's ideas and beliefs or is it just "JW authority says x. therefore x is true and we'll all be damned if we believe anything else."?

Quick example, I go to an evangelical Christian university and have just started a class on the Jesus. One of the books we're going over is on the viewpoints of N.T. Wright and Marcus Borg. Both authored it. N.T. Wright is an evanglical, Borg is very much not. But we're still exposed to his ideas and a free to think about them and reject/accept them after evaluating them.

In my previous class I read several Theologians. Some I agreed with, some we're extremely left-field when it came to what is Orthodox and not. But no one has ever said to me "Stay away from Paul Tillich. He's eeeeevil and supports Pagan Holidays."

So what about JW's?

[barryrob]

I had heard in a book by Josh McDowell that JW's are not allowed to examine literture on religion from non-JW's. Since I don't consider Josh McDowell the apex of evangelical scholarship, I'd be curious if this is true. I haven't gotten a clear answer from JW's yet though.

But, BarryRob, after reading many of your posts and responces I wonder if JW's are encouraged to evaluate and critically examine what they are taught and how to defend their beliefs with clear arguments and such. Or simply, can you really say that you're able to respond to other people's ideas and beliefs or is it just "JW authority says x. therefore x is true and we'll all be damned if we believe anything else."?

Quick example, I go to an evangelical Christian university and have just started a class on the Jesus. One of the books we're going over is on the viewpoints of N.T. Wright and Marcus Borg. Both authored it. N.T. Wright is an evanglical, Borg is very much not. But we're still exposed to his ideas and a free to think about them and reject/accept them after evaluating them.

In my previous class I read several Theologians. Some I agreed with, some we're extremely left-field when it came to what is Orthodox and not. But no one has ever said to me "Stay away from Paul Tillich. He's eeeeevil and supports Pagan Holidays."

So what about JW's?

I have many theologial books in my personal library by many non Witnesses writes and many other Bible translations (and CD Roms, e.g The Master Christian Libery; The Online Bible; NIV CD Rom) I use from time to time, then I also use the WWW at times.

If you read some of our publication you will see that they also quote from many of Christandom's theologial works.

We have a brother in England that sells theologial book from all over the world and predomnantly Non Witness publications by the 1,000 in fact he himself has penned a several theologial works on the Bible and some in conjuntion with a group of Brother examining other Bible translation.

One of our brother is a know Greek well and wrote and published his own version of the N.T. (21st Century) for public sale.

We do as the Bible says at:-

1 Thessalonians 5:21
Make sure of all things; hold fast to what is fine. . .

Jehovah God gave us a brain to use so we are encouraged to do our on research to see if what we are taught is correct, otherwise we just become credulous.

I personaly am a Museum Tour Guide and conduct Bible based Tours in Birmingham museum (England) so I have had to do mush study for my Touer from many non Witness publications along with the Help of Museum Staff. So "Josh McDowell" comment is just a waist of good paper.

Barryrob

[Krusader]

I have many theologial books in my personal library by many non Witnesses writes and many other Bible translations (and CD Roms, e.g The Master Christian Libery; The Online Bible; NIV CD Rom) I use from time to time, then I also use the WWW at times.

If you read some of our publication you will see that they also quote from many of Christandom's theologial works.

We have a brother in England that sells theologial book from all over the world and predomnantly Non Witness publications by the 1,000 in fact he himself has penned a several theologial works on the Bible and some in conjuntion with a group of Brother examining other Bible translation.

One of our brother is a know Greek well and wrote and published his own version of the N.T. (21st Century) for public sale.

We do as the Bible says at:-

1 Thessalonians 5:21
Make sure of all things; hold fast to what is fine. . .

Jehovah God gave us a brain to use so we are encouraged to do our on research to see if what we are taught is correct, otherwise we just become credulous.

I personaly am a Museum Tour Guide and conduct Bible based Tours in Birmingham museum (England) so I have had to do mush study for my Touer from many non Witness publications along with the Help of Museum Staff. So "Josh McDowell" comment is just a waist of good paper.

Barryrob

Sure, you have books, but will you take Christian literature when it is offered to you at the doorstep as you go about your merry way spreading Russellism? And, do you have Ray Franz's book on the Society? Somehow I doubt it.

Also, Watchtowerites have been warned against using the Internet for conversing with Christians - and that I know directly from a former elder!

[Jin-Roh]

I have many theologial books in my personal library by many non Witnesses writes and many other Bible translations (and CD Roms, e.g The Master Christian Libery; The Online Bible; NIV CD Rom) I use from time to time, then I also use the WWW at times.

Can you give specific examples, as well as your personal thoughts on them?

If you read some of our publication you will see that they also quote from many of Christandom's theologial works.

I don't think that counts for much since it comes from JW authority. Which means there is either an automatic refutation offered, or they could be taking quotes out of context and such.

We have a brother in England that sells theologial book from all over the world and predomnantly Non Witness publications by the 1,000 in fact he himself has penned a several theologial works on the Bible and some in conjuntion with a group of Brother examining other Bible translation.

This sounds like JW authority. I'm specifically asking about JW laity.

One of our brother is a know Greek well and wrote and published his own version of the N.T. (21st Century) for public sale.

I think its a little arrogant to presume that you can translate the NT all by your self. But this is really what I'm asking about anyway.

We do as the Bible says at:
1 Thessalonians 5:21
Make sure of all things; hold fast to what is fine. . .
Jehovah God gave us a brain to use so we are encouraged to do our on research to see if what we are taught is correct, otherwise we just become credulous.


See below.

I personaly am a Museum Tour Guide and conduct Bible based Tours in Birmingham museum (England) so I have had to do mush study for my Touer from many non Witness publications along with the Help of Museum Staff. So "Josh McDowell" comment is just a waist of good paper.
Barryrob

As I said upfront, I do not consider him to be the Apex of evangelical scholarship.

You've answer the Question about McDowell, but you've really only answered half my question.

When reading your responces, I've noticed a lot of dogmatic assertions. For instance, when you asserted that Christmas was celebrating mostly by pagans, and I asked you to prove, you told me that I just needed to open my eyes but didn't give reasons to believe it. When JohnSparks quoted Paul in regards to not being legelistic about holidays, you just spammed another verse and told that Christams was part of darkness or something like that.

If you've really been encouraged to examine things critically, why do you have such a problem in defending your viewpoints with real logic instead of blind dogma? Maybe you could just tell me the last time you changed your position on something because of an argument from a non-JW.

[barryrob]

You've answer the Question about McDowell, but you've really only answered half my question.

When reading your responces, I've noticed a lot of dogmatic assertions. For instance, when you asserted that Christmas was celebrating mostly by pagans, and I asked you to prove, you told me that I just needed to open my eyes but didn't give reasons to believe it. When JohnSparks quoted Paul in regards to not being legelistic about holidays, you just spammed another verse and told that Christams was part of darkness or something like that.

If you've really been encouraged to examine things critically, why do you have such a problem in defending your viewpoints with real logic instead of blind dogma? Maybe you could just tell me the last time you changed your position on something because of an argument from a non-JW.

Here I can only give a few examples from my own library on the History of the origins of Christmas and Yule background (if I gave a full acount I probable would be accused of spaming) and this points are just a preambl;e for anyone to do thier own research say on the WWW or in some publications such as:-

'4000 Years of Chriostmas' A gift from the ages by Earl W. COUNT, Ph.D. & Alice Lawson Count p. 24

Reader Digest Illustrated Dictionary of Essential Knowledge p.96

Dictionary of the Bible by W. R .F. Browning p.63

The Early Church by Henry Chadwick p.126-7

Christmas Watching by Desmond Morris p.3

Baker's Dictionary of Theology p.117

'As The Romans Did' [A Sourcebook In Roman Social History] by Jo-Ann Shelton p.384 "[footnote] 172

The World's Religions. [A Lion Handbook] p.89 & p.370

'Man and The Sun' by Jacquetta Hawkes pp. 202-203

The New World Library 1965 Knowledge by The Caxton Publishing Company Ltd. Vol. 9 p.100

Then Golden Bough by J. G. Frazer pp.358-359

Festivals & Celebrations by Rowland Purton pp.2 & 78

'The Year of the Goddess' by Lawrence Durdin-Robertson p.198

The story of Christmas by Michael Harrison pp.10-13

'Christmas Customs and Traditions their history and Significance' by Clement A. Miles pp.22-3

Stories Of Special Days And Customs. (A Ladybird Book [© 1972]) p.50

The Aquarian Dictionary Of Festivals by J.C. Cooper p.50; 200

Christmas Customs. (A Ladybird Book © MCMLXXXVIII]) p.6

Lady of the Beasts by Buffie Johnson p.137

The Religions of the Roman Empire by John Ferguson pp.238-9

Myth & Mystery An Introduction to the Pagan Religions of the Biblical World

by Jack Finegan pp.211-212

'ALONE OF ALL HER SEX' The Myth & The Cult of the Virgin Mary by Marina Warner p.257

Ancient Culture & Society. The Romans & Their Gods. by R. M. Ogilvie p.96

Astrology and Religion Among The Greeks and Romans by Franz Cumont p.86

The Secret Teachings of All Ages by Manly P. Hall pp.XXIII*, XXIV

The Emperor Constantine by Michael Grant p.135

The Origins of Popular Superstitions and Customs by T. Sharper Knowlson pp.75-76

A History of Pagan Europe by Prudence Jones and Nigel Pennick p.76

Winter Festivals by Mike Rosen pp.9, 10

Oriental Religions in Roman Paganism by Franz Cumont p.xvii

The origins of pagan and Christian beliefs by Edward Carpenter pp. 26-27

Christmas Watching by Desmond Morris p.22

Microsoft® Encarta® 98 Encyclopedia.

The Aquarian Dictionary of Festivals p.219

The Celtic & Scandinavian Religions by J.A. MacCullloch p.143-4

The trouble with Christmas by Tom Flynn

Which give the overview of the paganness of Christmas. When such things where brought to my atention I did my own research which more than supported what the Watchtower said.

Barryrob