catholic church corruption

[KyleX0rz]

In Western Civ today the main focus was the catholic church. Basically about the corruption which plagued it all throughout history, but I began to think about how it is the orginal church(well earliest church we have records of). Seeing how corrupt they were and how they used power for political/millitary gain is revolting...It makes me feel like everything i believe in now is based on a few like minded individuls who were only seeking power for themselves. Its a troubling thought to me and I am wondering what everyone elses thoughts were on this sopost away.

[Rusty T]

Just wanted to make some corrections:


*snip*. . . but I began to think about how it is the orginal church(well earliest church we have records of).
Partly wrong. The Orthodox (Catholic) Church and the Roman Catholic Church split in AD 1054. This means that you have two 'earliest church'es.


Seeing how corrupt they were and how they used power for political/millitary gain is revolting...
I'm no defender of Roman Catholicism, but there has been bad people in the Church since the beginning (remember Judas?).


It makes me feel like everything i believe in now is based on a few like minded individuls who were only seeking power for themselves.
Unless you are a Roman Catholic, I don't see how you feel this way. After all, wasn't this partly what the Reformation was about?


Its a troubling thought to me and I am wondering what everyone elses thoughts were on this sopost away.
see above

rusty

[KyleX0rz]

Just wanted to make some corrections:


Partly wrong. The Orthodox (Catholic) Church and the Roman Catholic Church split in AD 1054. This means that you have two 'earliest church'es.


I'm no defender of Roman Catholicism, but there has been bad people in the Church since the beginning (remember Judas?).


Unless you are a Roman Catholic, I don't see how you feel this way. After all, wasn't this partly what the Reformation was about?


see above

rusty

yeah...after seeing that you make me feel like im being anti catholic...that isnt the case i'm not actually i was baptised catholic..the point i was making is that...its troubling for me to see the foundation of my beliefs come from the catholic church because of the corruption within, it makes me think like all the churchs are harming and are just maligant its not something i like to think about..but yeah...maybe im thinking too much about it

[CatholicSage]

Well, I think it would for one be incorrect to simply characterize the Catholic Church as corrupt through and through.

[spiritmech]

Christian leadership is going to fail you. Always. So you have to be resigned either to:

1. Expect to hop churches every 2 years or so when something blows up and the church splits.
2. Forgive, lower your expectations with regards to humans, knowing we're all sinners, and find a church that's in it for the long haul.

SM

[Cynic Sage]

Christian leadership is going to fail you. Always. So you have to be resigned either to:

1. Expect to hop churches every 2 years or so when something blows up and the church splits.
2. Forgive, lower your expectations with regards to humans, knowing we're all sinners, and find a church that's in it for the long haul.

SM
There's also option #3: Become a paranoid anti-catholic conspiracy theorist always looking over your back for the ninjas that the Pope has hired to do you in.


...Don't say I didn't warn you.







:lol:

[spiritmech]

LOL Touche'!

[mickiel]

I am wondering why there are some people who think some churches are not corrupt. Why people put so much faith in the leadership of other people, is a testement of how bad our faith is where spiritual matters are concerned. A person can elevate the vision they have of themselves, or anyonelse. There is no church that is not corrupt. And the person who would stand up and claim theirs is not, is a by-product of how well laid the deception is.

[spiritmech]

Well there's a difference between a corrupt church in doctrine, versus a corrupt church in practice. You can have the best doctrine ever and still be hypocrites, or you can be the "holiest" people with a warped sense of doctrine.

SM

[mickiel]

Well there's a difference between a corrupt church in doctrine, versus a corrupt church in practice. You can have the best doctrine ever and still be hypocrites, or you can be the "holiest" people with a warped sense of doctrine.

SM



Well, I certainly agree with this.Still, I cannot see a church devoid of either of the two. Why, because they are run by men. There is no church that is run by God. IF there is, produce the evidence of it. Every church going person who reads this will be enraged, but as the rage subsides, produce the evidence that your church is Gods church. That is impossible to do, because God must agree. And he has not.

[spiritmech]

"There is no church that is run by God."

Yup. That is why all churches await His 2nd coming.
SM

[mickiel]

"There is no church that is run by God."

Yup. That is why all churches await His 2nd coming.
SM



Very well stated.

[KyleX0rz]

"There is no church that is run by God."

Yup. That is why all churches await His 2nd coming.
SM
yeah i agree, I guess I've been atheist...i converted back in july-september(longtime) and I think the way I still see church or well some...that are more corrupt than others is..that is one of the reasons why i was an atheist...the catholic church in the 1300s didnt encourage the freedoms we enjoy today, I look at it like they didnt help the human race when they should have...i kind of use to have that view for every religion guess i should have been more clear

[spiritmech]

Welcome back. :) I've been an atheist, too. I grew up non-denominational Christian. Currently I'm looking into joining the Catholic Church. If you don't feel fully comfortable there, there are many many good churches out there. It may take you a while to find one, but don't stay out there all alone!

SM

[KyleX0rz]

Welcome back. :) I've been an atheist, too. I grew up non-denominational Christian. Currently I'm looking into joining the Catholic Church. If you don't feel fully comfortable there, there are many many good churches out there. It may take you a while to find one, but don't stay out there all alone!

SM
Im considering calling a pastor tomorrow to see if i can make it on sunday or saturday, not to sure though if i can.

[Sacrificial Ram]

yeah...after seeing that you make me feel like im being anti catholic...that isnt the case i'm not actually i was baptised catholic..the point i was making is that...its troubling for me to see the foundation of my beliefs come from the catholic church because of the corruption within, it makes me think like all the churchs are harming and are just maligant its not something i like to think about..but yeah...maybe im thinking too much about it
Well, any time you get a group of people togather that share a common purpose, and also have a heirarchy, you will have corruption. This corruption
in an establishment as old as the RCC will come and go. That is just the nature of man.

You will see corruption in any human organisation, including churches. Take a look at the prominent Televangilsts, and do you think you can say with an honest and objective opinion there is no corruption there? The more money and more power an organisation has, the more potential for corruption.

[elysian]

There's been some really good points made here. I may not agree with all of the RCC's teaching, and even the Protestant churches were guilty of corruption, etc. All have sinned and fall short of God's glory. Church hierarchies and leaders are not exempt from the effects of sin. The thing to remember is that the church wasn't intended to be a museum for saints but a hospital for sinners- an organization of broken people just like you and I. There will be conflicts. There will be misunderstandings, and yes there will be people in your church who you don't particularly like. There will be differences of opinion as well.

None of this matters except for the central message of the Christian faith: Jesus is at the center, at the heart of all things. The focus of any true Christian church, whether it be RC, Orthodox, Baptist, Lutheran, whatever- is Jesus Christ and His sacrifice on the Cross. Scripture points us to Him, the church helps to reveal Him through the word and Sacraments, but Jesus is to be our focus. Without Jesus the church is just rote religion.

With this being said, Jesus told us to be gentle as doves but shrewd as serpents. Take time, prayer and study in finding a church. Ask for the Holy Spirit to give you wisdom and discernment. Be like the Bereans who the apostle Paul praised: test what the church and the Pastor teach against Scripture. Ask questions! Are you free to air your opinion or does the Pastor act as some sort of dogmatic autocrat? Is it a place that feels safe and open or closed and stuffy? I don't know how else to say it but the Holy Spirit will let you know when you are in the right place.

I'm praying for you in your search- have been there- (RC to Lutheran many years ago) and I pray that the Holy Spirit will land you exactly where you need to be.

[CatholicSage]

yeah i agree, I guess I've been atheist...i converted back in july-september(longtime) and I think the way I still see church or well some...that are more corrupt than others is..that is one of the reasons why i was an atheist...the catholic church in the 1300s didnt encourage the freedoms we enjoy today, I look at it like they didnt help the human race when they should have...i kind of use to have that view for every religion guess i should have been more clear

History is an area in which I have a major interest, and I think you may be looking at history from a present-to-past viewpoint instead of a past-to-present viewpoint. The reason why I think the former view is a bad one is because it tends to make the past look horrible and barbaric, when such was not the case. For example, since we're on the subject of the Middle Ages, feudalism and serfdom are looked on today as concepts that are extremely restrictive and bad; however, in the context of the preceding centuries, serfdom gave peasants many freedoms except for the freedom to leave their land, and the lord had plenty of responsibilities to the peasants as well. I think that a deeper investigation of these issues may help you.

[wanboredlatino]

The more money and more power an organisation has, the more potential for corruption.
Let's forget death and taxes. That statement there is a sure thing.

[Cynic Sage]

History is an area in which I have a major interest, and I think you may be looking at history from a present-to-past viewpoint instead of a past-to-present viewpoint. The reason why I think the former view is a bad one is because it tends to make the past look horrible and barbaric, when such was not the case. For example, since we're on the subject of the Middle Ages, feudalism and serfdom are looked on today as concepts that are extremely restrictive and bad; however, in the context of the preceding centuries, serfdom gave peasants many freedoms except for the freedom to leave their land, and the lord had plenty of responsibilities to the peasants as well. I think that a deeper investigation of these issues may help you.
:thumb:I agree.:yes: