Powerful Witches?

[steamer]

My questions about Wicca will probably seem very ignorant. The sum total of my knowlege of witches comes from many episodes of bewitched, Harry Potter (Actually Wizards) and other movies with witches, a few references in the bible and a short Tennis match thread where I failed to find anything particularly offensive so I sort of lost interest.

Is there such a thing as a powerful witch? How would one know, but to observe those powers? If you've personally observed the powers of a powerful witch, what did you observe?

[technomage]

My questions about Wicca will probably seem very ignorant. The sum total of my knowlege of witches comes from many episodes of bewitched, Harry Potter (Actually Wizards) and other movies with witches, a few references in the bible and a short Tennis match thread where I failed to find anything particularly offensive so I sort of lost interest.
Well, Bewitched, Charmed, Harry Potter, Buffy, et al. have very little to do with Wicca. Yes, the folks at Hollywood are trying to hit that part of the market that is intrigued with Wicca, but they're about as serious about it as they are about hitting the Christian market. Anything for a buck.

Is there such a thing as a powerful witch? How would one know, but to observe those powers? If you've personally observed the powers of a powerful witch, what did you observe?
You know you've met a powerful witch if you can't stand to be downwind of them after they've eaten a lot of chili.

:eww:

Seriously, that's actually one of the first "tip-offs" that you're dealing with a nebish--waitaminit, not the flautulence, the bragging. If they start bragging about how "powerful" they are, or if they're trying to dip their hand into your pocket, then they're usually full of it.

Outside of that ... well, you and I are using the word "power" entirely differently. One of the biggest exoteric meanings of the word within my own personal context has far more to do with interpersonal and intra-personal psychology. If a person successfully engages in manipulation of others (emotional manipulation, threats, dishonest uses of emotion, or what have you), that's a form of "power." Do you have someone who makes you angry just by opening their mouth? Whether or not they mean to do so, they're engaging in "power over" you.

As for the power you're talking about ... :shrug:. There have been a lot of claims, but nothing scientifically provable or measurable. Oh, and of course you cannot take my derision of braggarts together with my lack of bragging as any indication that I'm powerful ... heck, Steamer, my favorite nickname is "the Village Idiot." :clueless:

Steamer, the point of Wicca is not to be powerful (in the sense that you speak). I can't really tell you in a clear and concise way what the point is--not because it's a secret, but because it's a Mystery, a concept for which I do not have words. There are certain ... experiences that we deliberately invoke upon ourselves, and these experiences have a profound effect on the person who experiences them, but there are no words to explain those experiences. Or, if the words do exist, I don't know them.

I have experienced some of these things. Some of them I will never experience ... some because I'm not physically equipped (I'm not ever going to experience Motherhood, for example--and if I ever do, the National Enquirer will be the first to know! :lol: ), and others for other reasons I won't go into right now.

Power's not the goal. As a matter of fact, in my humble opinion, the quest for "power," however one defines it, is far too often a distraction from the goal.

Justin

[steamer]

I'm really more interested in what you have observed in naturalistically unexplainable phenomena. I thought someone considered powerful might have displayed something amazing. Even if those displays were merely by-products of something else, I'm still interested to know what it is that makes you think something supernatural is going on.

[technomage]

Hoo, boy.

Steamer, I'll tell you the truth--I can't call any objective phenomena to mind that doesn't have naturalistic explanations. No Hollywood-style fire shooting from my fingertips, no massive earthquakes, no plagues on the oppressors, no floods--no nothing, if you'll pardon the bad grammar. Subjective experiences? Yeah, plenty of those ... but I'm also aware that some physiologists feel that the "Mystical Experience" is explanable by biological phenomena.

Crypto-phenomenology--for the most part, it's hogwash. Psychism--I really don't buy it, myself. Magic--yeah, maybe ... but not by any definition that would set the Amazing Randi on his ear. I definitely can't turn people into frogs ... which is a good thing, as my wife has decorated the bathroom with frogs, so it would be kind of redundant. :lol: That's not what it's all about. Outside of the superstitions of the overly credulous or the boasting of the overly egotistical, that never has been what Wicca was all about.

The sum total of my knowlege of witches comes from many episodes of bewitched, Harry Potter (Actually Wizards) and other movies with witches, a few references in the bible and a short Tennis match thread where I failed to find anything particularly offensive so I sort of lost interest.
Heck, Steamer, we're currently defined as "harmless." I'm trying to get the definition upgraded to "mostly harmless," but you know how that goes.... :lol:

Seriously ... we're not doing the crap that you see in movies. Now, I'm not going to say that the movie-style magic doesn't exist in real life, but I've never seen it, and to tell you the truth I'm rather doubtful that it does exist. There are people that claim it does ... but I'll believe it when I see it.

By the same token, I also have to admit that there is a possibility that I am only dealing with the "mental entities" that you and other skeptics like to twig Christians about. :shrug: I dunno. I do know that, to the best of my knowledge, these experiences (and my reaction to them) have changed the way that I interact with the world--and that change has been positive. If you look at things from a purely functional point of view, that's got to be for the good.

Justin

[steamer]

By the same token, I also have to admit that there is a possibility that I am only dealing with the "mental entities" that you and other skeptics like to twig Christians about. :shrug: I dunno. I do know that, to the best of my knowledge, these experiences (and my reaction to them) have changed the way that I interact with the world--and that change has been positive. If you look at things from a purely functional point of view, that's got to be for the good.

Since there are atheist Wiccans and I'm not a believer in any god(s) I would suspect that it is a mental entity you are dealing with. OTOH, as you say, it still might work.

I'm willing to try an experiment. PM me a spell, or whatever you call it, and I'll try it for 7 days. Something easy and that has been personally beneficial to you. Maybe I can subjectively confirm that belief in the supernatural is not a requirement for it's successful use.

[Eyeheart Pumpkin]

If they start bragging about how "powerful" they are, or if they're trying to dip their hand into your pocket, then they're usually full of it.
Now hold up there a minute! There is very real power to be had! I've felt it, I've wielded it, and I am utterly certain that I can prove it to you beyond the shadow of a doubt ... but it's gonna cost you $29.95.

[Kiwano]

I'm willing to try an experiment. PM me a spell, or whatever you call it, and I'll try it for 7 days. Something easy and that has been personally beneficial to you. Maybe I can subjectively confirm that belief in the supernatural is not a requirement for it's successful use.
Several centuries back, magnetic compasses were widely held to be "supernatural". I have the distinc impression that even in the hands of someone who disbelieves in the "supernatural", a compass will still point in the same direction (well unless that person is wearing a magnet or something).

That said, some people argue that what disthingushes those things that are currently "supernatural" is that they have withstood the analyses of science by placing difficult-to-observe conditions on the people using the things, and that belief in effectiveness is one such thing.

[Kiwano]

Is there such a thing as a powerful witch? How would one know, but to observe those powers? If you've personally observed the powers of a powerful witch, what did you observe?
Haven't really directly observed a powerful witch directly, but I understand that there are thousands of people doing roughly what Gerald Gardner suggested that they do; one could argue that this would make Mr. Gardner powerful (even though he's now dead). Likewise, as the founder of Wicca, one could also call Mr. Gardner a witch.