Changing Theological Views....

[Xmansmommy]

I've been thinking lately about the process of changing theological views and the purpose for theology message boards in general. I'm under the impression that most come here to share their views and reason with each other from the scriptures. Perhaps that's wishful thinking, I dunno. But I'd like for a moment for us to discuss what process we go through when we eventually change theological views.

Now I'm not necessarily talking about going from no view whatsoever to having a view, but rather going from a particular view that you have felt well studied on to a completly opposite or new view.

I know that there are several things that have been integral in my changing views in the past. For instance, studying scripture has had the biggest impact on my changing views. Whenever I study the scriptures I'm faced with the problem of not understanding everything for one. And secondly, I find despite what view I hold to, there seems to be contradictory passages that are problematic to my view at least on the surface. Which of course makes me seek answers as to why the seeming contradictions? Sometimes I find answers, sometimes I have not.

Pondering scripture has had a huge influence on whether or not I change my interpretation of them. I have to ask myself tons of questions as I consider the scriptures. Does my understanding of scripture prevent me from seeing something seemingly opposite of my view as biblical? If so, what if anything, am I willing to do about it? I've often pondered specific scriptures for years before I actually came to a conclusion about them, all the while comparing them with other scripture.

Discussing scripture with others has caused me to reflect on scriptures, ideas, etc. that I may not have considered before. This, I believe, is one of the reasons I come here to TWeb to be challenged in my views. Because I'm willing to admit and acknowledge to myself and usually to others too :wink:, when someone has a good argument against my view. It keeps me searching for truth sometimes rather than assuming I know all truth.

While this is a basic list of things of the processes in which I go through, I don't suggest it is comprehensive. But after reflecting upon this process I have come to the conclusion, as I think most would, that changing one's theological view is indeed a process. And one that takes time and prayerful study. The reason I bring this up is because I think we are all so eager to help someone else come to the knowledge of the truth as we know it, that sometimes we expect instantaneous results.

While it is wonderful to play a part in provoking someone to consider what we have to say, or to cause them to dig deeper into scripture, let us not forget that process that we have gone through to get where we are as well. And let's also not forget to realize that we may never know if we caused another to search the scriptures to see if what we believe is so.

[yxboom]

looking to convert someone?

[spiritmech]

XMM + TULIP = 4 ever

[Xmansmommy]

:lmbo: No :yx:, I'm not looking to convert anyone. :doh:

Steve, that's too funny! :hehe:

[Solly]

I sometimes wonder, bsed upon my own experience, whether we can truly say we have arrived at a position to the exclusion of all else. Sure, I moved into Calvinism over the period of 18 months back in the early 90's, but I know I took elements of other things with me, that I had read but could not pigeonhole. One of those was from reading Yoder's Politics of Jesus, something which didn't bear fruit for over 10 years, but has now borne much fruit. I am still a Calvinst, though sitting loosely to confessional Calvinism.
My influences come through reading scripture, reading authors, esp where they don't agree with my position, from nearly three years of having to preach the scriptures and not wanting to just parrot the party line, and of course from a willingness to be corrected, which I know I did not have in the early days. Tweb, and TOL before has helped in that I have encountered more views than I would have in my normal contacts, and engaged with serious opposition in the likes of Jaltus and Arminian for instance, and those who are influenced by the New Perspective. Even the Orthodox posters have helped me, if only to clarify what my position is.
Forums can be an enriching experience, if done right; but too often it's as you say, we come hear to push our own views and end up excluding people from the dialogue in favour of our monologue.

[dizzle]

she is trying to get converts for yodelism

[Solly]

:stunned: Move this thread to unorthodox theology!!

[keith]

I sometimes wonder, bsed upon my own experience, whether we can truly say we have arrived at a position to the exclusion of all else. Sure, I moved into Calvinism over the period of 18 months back in the early 90's, but I know I took elements of other things with me, that I had read but could not pigeonhole. One of those was from reading Yoder's Politics of Jesus, something which didn't bear fruit for over 10 years, but has now borne much fruit. I am still a Calvinst, though sitting loosely to confessional Calvinism.
My influences come through reading scripture, reading authors, esp where they don't agree with my position, from nearly three years of having to preach the scriptures and not wanting to just parrot the party line, and of course from a willingness to be corrected, which I know I did not have in the early days. Tweb, and TOL before has helped in that I have encountered more views than I would have in my normal contacts, and engaged with serious opposition in the likes of Jaltus and Arminian for instance, and those who are influenced by the New Perspective. Even the Orthodox posters have helped me, if only to clarify what my position is.
Forums can be an enriching experience, if done right; but too often it's as you say, we come hear to push our own views and end up excluding people from the dialogue in favour of our monologue.
I can identify with a lot of this. As for folks pushing their own views, it can also happen in other contexts. There were people I met in theological college who seemed to use their time there to build up a stronger case for their pre-existing views and left as they arrived, only with a better collection of footnotes and bible quotes. For me it takes time to mull over other ideas and see how that fits with where I am now. Tweb has been stimulating in seeing other perspectives and how people handle issues. As a lay church leader I also think about how issues can be 'road tested' - like how would I preach from this? or how would this apply in practice ? Theology can easily be treated as an intellectual puzzle or an abstraction. One of the things I like about Tweb is that it is possible to dip in and out while the rest of life is going on, unlike full time study. My biggest influences still remain Scripture and theological writings. I used to read more philosophy ten years ago but seem to have lost enthusiasm for it, except where it directly intersects with my faith. Life is just too short to be on top of every area of study, even a limited area like Pauline Studies would take a whole career to begin to master. Tweb has reminded me of just how much I don't know - like comparative religion or cosmogony but it is interesting to peek over the shoulders of others and see ideas in progress. In most formal study there are lots of compartments and even getting OT and NT scholars to interact can be hard. Yes, and I do appreciate the wide mix of views you find here rather than a group of like minded folks all preaching to the choir as it were.

[Xmansmommy]

she is trying to get converts for yodelism

Dang, :ddw: outted me! :blush:

[learning]

I think we can find truths in all different theological positions. I know that I first started looking into some of these things, mostly the evolution-creation thing, cause I wanted to have answers for my kids when they encountered this in school. I didn't have a problem growing up with it, but it hit me, these different ideas, just the last five years.

I have found these quotes from George MacDonald have helped me think about whether I know if something is 'true' or not. Of course, I'ld like to look into a lot of these things more deeply, but sometimes I believe God is saying 'Look after your family' is more important than getting my mind wrapped around some idea.

(I don't necessarily agree with all of George MacDonald's ideas theologically, but he has some gems of truth here) 'from 'Selections From His Greatest Works: George MacDonald' compiled by David L. Neuhouser



on truth (and I hope this for myself and others here)

"The moment she laid hold of a truth - the moment that is, when it was no longer another's idea, but her own perception- it began to sprout in her in all directions of practice. By nature she was not intellectually quick; but because such was her character, the ratio of her progress was of necessity an increasing one."

On Obedience
"...Get up, and do something the master tells you; so make yourself His disciple at once. Instead of asking yourself whether you believe or not, ask yourself whether you have this day done one thing because He said, Do it, or once abstained because He said, Do not do it. It is simply absurd to say you believe, or even want to believe in Him, if you do not anything He tells you. If you can think of nothing He ever said as having had an atom of influence on your doing or not doing, you have too good ground to consider yourself no disciple of His."


"Our business is not to think correctly, but live truly, then first will there be a possibility of our thinking correctly. One chief cause of the amount of unbelief in the world is, that those who have seen something of the glory of Christ, set themselves to theorize concerning Him rather than obey Him."


"It is to the man who is trying to live, to the man who is obedient to the word of the Master, that the word of the Master unfolds itself."




(a fictious conversation, with some profound truths, for me)

" 'The only way to learn the rules of anything practical is to begin to do the thing. We have enough knowledge in us... to begin anything requested of us. The sole way to deal with the profoundest mystery.. is to begin to do some duty revealed by (it)...'

'Yes, Yes! But how is one to know what is true my dear? There are so many differeing claims to the quality!'

'I have been told and believe it with all my heart,' replied Hester, 'that the only way to know what is true is to do what is true.'

'But you must know what is true before you can begin to do what is true.'

'Everybody knows something that is true to do - that is, something he ought to lose no time in setting about. The true things is the thing that must not be let alone but done. It is much easier to know what is true to do than what is true to think. But those who do the one will come to know the other-- and none else, I believe.'"

[Sparko]

yes, I agree. Soon everyone will change their theological views.... to MINE!!!!

bwaahahahahah

:maniac:

[Sparko]

...just as soon as I can figure out what they are. They keep squirming away from me when I try to nail them down

[spiritmech]

It seems to me that changing theological views is a good thing. As long as you don't go unorthodox, it should strengthen your appreciation for what C.S. Lewis terms "Mere Christianity." As we circle around, from Arminianism to Calvinism, from Pentecostal to Eastern Orthodox, from Futurism to Preterism (or vice versa), we should be able to better recognize the things of our faith which never move.

As we circle, we recognize the center ever more clearly.
SM

[lee_merrill]

Hi everyone,

Some quotes for my George MacDonald quote book!

George Macdonald: "It is much easier to know what is true to do than what is true to think. But those who do the one will come to know the other-- and none else, I believe.'"

Yes, I agree!

John 7:17 If anyone's will is to do God's will, he will know whether the teaching is from God...

May the Lord guide us all...

1 Corinthians 13:12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

Blessings,
Lee