Does God have a plan for each individual?

[Lazy Agnostic]

Is God's hand implicit in our conception? Does He knit us together in our mother's wombs? Does He choose our parents? Or does He just set the laws of Nature into motion and let whatever happens happen?

[markporter]

I'd go with a mixture of both

[JardinPrayer]

Well, He explicity tells us in His Word that He knit us together in our mothers' wombs, that He knows us down to the count of every hair on each of our head, and that He has a plan for us. He also provides us with countless brilliant examples of our fallen-ness and disobedience, whether willfull or unwitting...so plan or no plan, we are free to cooperate or deny Him, thereby sealing our own fate. We are told that only a remnant will be saved and that only some have "ears to hear," so we can safely assume that not everyone will walk the (straight and narrow) path laid out for us by God. We are also separated from God by original sin, so we don't have access to the plan in it's fullness and therefore CANNOT cooperate with it fully, even if we want to. We can only pray for guidance and revelation.

[Jin-Roh]

I have personally grown skeptical of the "Jeremiah 29:11" viewpoints on this. One of the main reasons why is that its hard for me to understand how a book (I mean the Bible as a whole here) that was written to a largely collectivist culture could say something so individualisitic. It might be better, at least from a Christian prespective, to think of oneself as a member of a body, and try to concentrate on the purposes of that body, rather than "What is God's will for me" type of questions.

This subject came up in my Exodus/Deut class last semester, my teacher thought that this was a good position when I added to the discussion, and I know that she's thought about it as well. I don't think its a coincidence that she's asian, and therefore might see the collectivist aspect a little better than most us of post-youth group Christian college students in America.

I don't mean to downplay God's immanence in any respect, I'm just doubtful if God's plan for the life of the individual is the right question.

[sptheology]

I don't believe there is any evidence in Scripture whatsoever that God has an individual plan mapped out for every individual except for those he specifically chooses for a special purpose. I think there has been a lot of unnecessary anguish and guilt experienced when people try to find the person God's want them to marry, the job God wants them to have, etc.

[Xmansmommy]

Sptheology, I'd agree with everything you've said. :thumb:

[Lazy Agnostic]

Well, He explicity tells us in His Word that He knit us together in our mothers' wombs, that He knows us down to the count of every hair on each of our head, and that He has a plan for us. Does He knit together birth/genetic defects?

[Leroy]

Does He knit together birth/genetic defects?

Well He must, we all have them.


God:
knit one pearl two, knit one pearl two, knit one pearl one, whoops, hmmm, should I take it out and start over…nah.

[Lazy Agnostic]

Well He must, we all have them.What about Spina Bifida, Muscular Dystrophy, dwarfism, etc...does He make those things happen?

[Leroy]

What about Spina Bifida, Muscular Dystrophy, dwarfism, etc...does He make those things happen?

As I see it, He lets them happen, this are effects of our free will choices.

[sptheology]

As I see it, He lets them happen, this are effects of our free will choices.

There is no scientific evidence, that I am aware of, that things like Spina Bifida are caused by people's choices. To blame these sorts of defects on a person seems outrageous to me. Jesus, himself, did not accept this sort of explanation:

'As Jesus was walking along, he saw a man who had been blind from birth. “Teacher,” his disciples asked him, “why was this man born blind? Was it a result of his own sins or those of his parents?” “It was not because of his sins or his parents’ sins,” Jesus answered. “He was born blind so the power of God could be seen in him.' (Jn 9:1-3, NLT)

Whatever Jesus' words mean when he says that the man was born blind so the power of God could be seen, they do not mean that the blindness was a result of his choices.

Steve

[JardinPrayer]

Indeed, it is my belief that God permits things to happen for reasons He does not feel obliged to explain to us. For that, I refer to Isaiah 55, where God tells us that His thoughts are not our thoughts and His ways are not our ways, rather His thoughts are higher than our thoughts and His ways higher than our ways.

The anguish sptheology refers to comes in when we misinterpret God and believe we must decode His secret plan before the clock runs out. I believe God does have a will and that it can be very specific in some cases and beyond our ability to comprehend in others. The thing is, we don't know where we fall on that scale...and so we must rely on what we are given: The Word, and prayer. We are told that God hears and answers our prayers. We are told that as God cares for the lilies of the field and the birds of the sky, how much more will he care for us, made in His image? We are beseeched by Jesus...each one of us individually...to answer the knock at the door of our heart and be saved. And, we are warned, gravely, by that same Saviour, of the individual consequences.

Beyond that, does God have a spouse, job, car, location to live in mind for each of us? I agree with sptheology and Xmansmommy that this may be true for some but not all, but again stress that you may not know for certain whether or not it is true for you. We are called to seek and to pray for fresh revelation and to walk in Christ and keep Him the center of our focus. Do those things, and you will come closest to knowing God's will for you as is possible. For my part, I would rather endure the sweet anguish of pursuing a God I will never see while I am walking this earth in the flesh than the aimless wandering of the unsaved lost soul I was for almost 40 years.

Lazy Agnostic, you've been around TWeb as long as I have...yet you are the asking questions of someone who is encountering Christianity for the first time. Would you be a Lazy Christian, too? Why not read the bible for some of your answers?

[Leroy]

There is no scientific evidence, that I am aware of, that things like Spina Bifida are caused by people's choices. To blame these sorts of defects on a person seems outrageous to me. Jesus, himself, did not accept this sort of explanation:

Do you think if we were still in the Garden of Eden some people would have Spina Bifida?


'As Jesus was walking along, he saw a man who had been blind from birth. “Teacher,” his disciples asked him, “why was this man born blind? Was it a result of his own sins or those of his parents?” “It was not because of his sins or his parents’ sins,” Jesus answered. “He was born blind so the power of God could be seen in him.' (Jn 9:1-3, NLT)

Whatever Jesus' words mean when he says that the man was born blind so the power of God could be seen, they do not mean that the blindness was a result of his choices.

I agree, but you should separate this thought from what we are talking about.

If a pregnant mother is a heavy smoker, and continues to smoke throughout her pregnancy the baby will be affected will it not?

Is smoking a sin? I don’t see it specifically explained as such in the bible.

If we choose to pollute our planet, our water and our air, our future generations have to live with the choices that we have made, maybe some of those choices cause birth defects, it’s proven to cause birth defects in other species.

We as the creations of God have chosen to live outside the guidance of God, Rom. 3:10-18, and the ground we stand on, that God at one time said was very good Gen 1:31 “And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good”, is cursed because of what Adam did in the garden Gen. 3:17.

So our free will choices do affect not only us, but our children and our children’s children, for generations to come.

If I sin, the ramifications of my sin may physically affect many people for years to come, but my sin does not affect the souls of others. We each stand before God bearing only our on sins, not the sins of our parents, we may stand on earth for a very short time with the affects of many other past free will choices, that have affected our physical beings, but the spiritual damage we do to ourselves is solely of our own accord.

[Sacrificial Ram]

As I see it, He lets them happen, this are effects of our free will choices.
What choice did a child with Spinal Bifida make to give it Spinal Bifida?

[Leroy]

What choice did a child with Spinal Bifida make to give it Spinal Bifida?

None.

[Lazy Agnostic]

Lazy Agnostic, you've been around TWeb as long as I have...yet you are the asking questions of someone who is encountering Christianity for the first time.I'm developing thoughts for another forum. I wanted to see if I encountered any new insights here on an ancillary theme.

Would you be a Lazy Christian, too?Most Christians I've met have been lulled into some semblence of lazy. So, probably.

The opposite of a fundamentalist Christian is not the angry atheist but rather the gentle agnostic to whom it matters-not whether there is a Creator-who-cares. Or what His name is.

Why not read the bible for some of your answers? I had, as a young man, spent two years preparing myself for ministry. I have, probably, spent more time with the Bible than most Americans. [No claims to any vague scholarship.]

I never felt more responsible for my actions and attitudes than the moment I finally admitted to myself that the Bible is probably the work of myth and supersition. That's not to say there's no Creator.



I spend alot of time in the homes and family lives of my patients. Here in the South, many are demonstrably Born Again. After getting to know me and my demeanor, they are suprised to learn that I'm not a believer.

I don't have a need to show anyone any badges...but if I did, this would be a right shiny one: Two sweetly-devouted, elderly Christian ladies I worked with told me they (halfheartedly, I'm sure) considered questioning their faith because "There's no way God's gonna send you to hell."

I told them to just trust that God knows what He's doing.

[learning]

Is God's hand implicit in our conception? Does He knit us together in our mother's wombs? Does He choose our parents? Or does He just set the laws of Nature into motion and let whatever happens happen?


I sort of hope He does. I don't know about this 'predestination thing' but I like the idea of the Providence of God. For me, I guess it sounds more loving.
Do we take Psalm 139 as nice thoughts about God or true theology? I don't know. But I like the idea of His hand behind and before me.

Psalms 139:1-6
"O Lord, You have searched me and You know me.
You know me when I sit and when I rise,
you perceive my thoughts from afar.
You discern my going out and my lying down
You are familiar with all my ways
Before a word is on my tongue
You know it completely, O Lord.

You hem me in - behind and before;
You have laid Your hand on me.
Such knowledge is too wonderful for me
too lofty for me to attain."

There's more, but here's a verse that speaks to God perhaps having a plan
verse 16
"All the days ordained for me
were written in Your book
before one of them came to be."

[JardinPrayer]

I'm developing thoughts for another forum. I wanted to see if I encountered any new insights here on an ancillary theme. Okay, accepted, although you seem to be changing the theme of your own thread more than once. Of course, it's your thread...

Most Christians I've met have been lulled into some semblence of lazy. Certainly not most of those active on TWeb, though I will grant you I have encountered many in church.



I never felt more responsible for my actions and attitudes than the moment I finally admitted to myself that the Bible is probably the work of myth and supersition. That's not to say there's no Creator. I'm sorry your study (mis)led you there. I find it encouraging that you are a frequent and active participant in at least one Christian-owned board (no idea what the other board is that you mentioned earlier). It tells me some part of you may still be seeking.

I spend alot of time in the homes and family lives of my patients. Here in the South, many are demonstrably Born Again. After getting to know me and my demeanor, they are suprised to learn that I'm not a believer. Are you, in fact, not a believer?

I don't have a need to show anyone any badges...but if I did, this would be a right shiny one: Two sweetly-devouted, elderly Christian ladies I worked with told me they (halfheartedly, I'm sure) considered questioning their faith because "There's no way God's gonna send you to hell."

I told them to just trust that God knows what He's doing. I'm not sure I understand this story. These women of faith were considering questioning God's judgement and sovereignty as it had been taught to them because it might not match up with their own judgement? Rather than hold that up as a potential badge, I would say that is a stellar example of "lazy Christianity." Your response, however, was a better example of Christianity than theirs! It pointed to complete trust in the sovereignty of the Almighty! I only hope you meant it sincerely and not smugly.

I pray you find the insights you are looking for and it's nice to be engaging in dialogue with you...I'm not sure we've done that before, though I've seen you around quite a lot.

[Lazy Agnostic]

Are you, in fact, not a believer?I'm not.
I'm not sure I understand this story. These women of faith were considering questioning God's judgement and sovereignty as it had been taught to them because it might not match up with their own judgement? Would you say religionists of other faiths should question what's taught to them? Your response, however, was a better example of Christianity than theirs! It pointed to complete trust in the sovereignty of the Almighty! I only hope you meant it sincerely and not smugly.I didn't want them to trouble themselves about my welfare. I don't desire to talk anyone out of their faith. I do desire to see Christianity become more noble. I pray you find the insights you are looking for and it's nice to be engaging in dialogue with you Ditto.