Canaanite Psalms

[shunyadragon]

This subject has been addressed in detail in a number of threads in the past, but here goes again. The only archeological and internal text evidence we have available is that the Book of Psalms is a Canaanite text, possibly edited later when added to Hebrew scripture. We have no other evidence for the origins of the Book of Psalms.

[shunyadragon]

Source: http://www.phoenicia.org/ugarbibl.html

Hebrews adopted the Syriac Civilization

Aryold J. Toynbee wrote: {p. 423} The Hebrews (including the Moabites) adopted not only the Canaanite language but also the Phoenician alphabet for writing it. ... The discovery of the Ugarit texts shows that the Biblical Psalms, whatever their date, are indebted to a Phoenician hymnology that had a long tradition behind it. The Phoenicians also seem likely to have been the intermediaries through whom some of the Egyptian proverbs of Amenemope found their way into the Biblical Book of Proverbs almost verbatim. And the Canaanite origin of chapters viii-ix of the Book of Proverbs, on the theme of Wisdom, is attested by echoes here of themes in the Phoenician literature disinterred at Ugarit. The Sumero-Akkadian story of the creation of the World must have found its way to Palestine long before the Israelites' advent there, and must have been learnt by them from the Canaanites on whom they imposed themselves. Canaanite elements have not been detected in the eighth-century B.C. prophetic literature of Israel and Judah. But they reappear thereafter. 'There is a veritable flood of allusions to Canaanite (Phoenician) literature in Hebrew works composed between the seventh and the third century B.C.: e.g. in Job, Deutero-Isaiah, Proverbs, Ezekiel, Habakkuk, the Song of Songs, Ecclesiastes, Jubilees, and part of Daniel.

© Copyright Original Source

Source: A Study of History Volume XII Reconsiderations, Oxford University Press, London 1961.


Read more: Torah, Ugartic Bible http://www.phoenicia.org/ugarbibl.html#ixzz3L7yE48uC

[Truthseeker]

Shuna Draco recently published a thesis "Batman: Derivative of the Superman Corpus?" In that Shuna listed a wealth of similarities between the Batman corpus and the Superman corpus in support of his contention that the Batman corpus is essentially a derivative of the Superman corpus.

In the first place, archaeological evidence has by now reached an overwhelming prominence that tales involving Superman antedated by many years the first tale involving Batman. Second, the similarities between the two corpuses make it all but undeniable that there is warrant to call the Batman corpus a Supermaniacal one.

[Adrift]

Nothing so far in any of your citations, shunya, have indicated that the Book of Psalms is a Canaanite text. Certainly there are chapters that reflect an earlier Canaanite source, like Psalm 29, but that's far from saying that the entire book is a Canaanite text. I think you've misunderstood what was said in those previous threads on the topic.

[shunyadragon]

Nothing so far in any of your citations, shunya, have indicated that the Book of Psalms is a Canaanite text. Certainly there are chapters that reflect an earlier Canaanite source, like Psalm 29, but that's far from saying that the entire book is a Canaanite text. I think you've misunderstood what was said in those previous threads on the topic.

No misunderstanding whatsoever. The only existing archeological evidence for the Book od Psalms is Canaanite. The Book of Psalms is indeed heavily Canaanite polytheistic. The sources so far do show this and there is more. If you can show other sourcebefore 600 BC that tell a different story please do.

[shunyadragon]

Read more: Torah, Ugartic Bible http://www.phoenicia.org/ugarbibl.html#ixzz3L9t6ssfB

[Adrift]

No misunderstanding whatsoever. The only existing archeological evidence for the Book od Psalms is Canaanite.

What do you mean by archaeological? Are you saying that archaeologists have dug up copies of the book of Psalms in Ugarit? If so, do you have something from an archaeologist that discusses this discovery?

The Book of Psalms is indeed heavily Canaanite polytheistic.

Portions of certain chapters of the Psalms (specifically Psalm 29:1 and Psalm 89:7) appear to hark back to a Canaanite source.

The sources so far do show this and there is more.

No, I just read them twice. They don't.

If you can show other sourcebefore 600 BC that tell a different story please do.

The burden of proof is on the one who made the claim (that would be you).

[shunyadragon]

What do you mean by archaeological? Are you saying that archaeologists have dug up copies of the book of Psalms in Ugarit? If so, do you have something from an archaeologist that discusses this discovery?

No, I did not say the copy of the book of Psalms. Parts of the Psalms in Ugarit texts are only place where the Book of Psalms are found before 500 BC. My sources refer to parts of the Psalms found in archeological finds. There will be more.

Portions of certain chapters of the Psalms (specifically Psalm 29:1 and Psalm 89:7) appear to hark back to a Canaanite source.

True, and the Psalms is heavy with Canaanite polytheism.

No, I just read them twice. They don't.

You are ignoring the evidence. Second problem: Can you provide any other sources for the Book of Psalms before 500 BCE?

The burden of proof is on the one who made the claim (that would be you).

The sources are good and you are ignoring them. The proof is in the evidence. The only known sources of the Book of Psalms. So far you have not provided any evidence for alternatives

[shunyadragon]

Source: http://www.phoenicia.org/ugarbibl.html#ixzz3LAHYLLMw

Worship at Ugarit and in Ancient Israel

In Ugarit, as in Israel, the cult played a central role in the lives of the people. One of the central Ugaritic myths was the story of Baal's enthronement as king. In the story, Baal is killed by Mot (in the Fall of the year) and he remains dead until the Spring of the year. His victory over death was celebrated as his enthronement over the other gods (cf. KTU 1.2 IV 10)

The Old Testament also celebrates the enthronement of Yahweh (cf. Ps 47:9, 93:1, 96:10, 97:1 and 99:1). As in the Ugaritic myth, the purpose of Yahweh's enthronement is to re-enact creation. That is, Yahweh overcomes death by his recurring creative acts.

The major difference between the Ugaritic myth and the Biblical hymns is that Yahweh's kingship is eternal and uninterrupted while Baal's is interrupted every year by his death (in the Fall). Since Baal is the god of fertility the meaning of this myth is quite easy to understand. As he dies, so the vegetation dies; and when he is reborn so is the world. Not so with Yahweh; for since he is always alive he is always powerful (Cf. Ps 29:10).

Another of the more interesting aspects of Ugaritic religion which has a parallel in Hebrew religion was the practice of "weeping for the dead". KTU 1.116 I 2-5, and KTU 1.5 VI 11-22 describe the worshippers weeping over the departed in the hopes that their grief will move the gods to send them back and that they will therefore live again. The Israelites also participated in this activity; though the prophets condemned them for doing so (cf. Is 22:12, Eze 7:16, Mi 1:16, Jer 16:6, and Jer 41:5). Of particular interest in this connection is what Joel 1:8-13 has to say:


Lament like a virgin dressed in sackcloth for the husband of her youth. The grain offering and the drink offering are cut off from the house of the Lord. The priests mourn, the ministers of the Lord. The fields are devastated, the ground mourns; for the grain is destroyed, the wine dries up, the oil fails. Be dismayed, you farmers, wail, you vine dressers, over the wheat and the barley; for the crops of the field are ruined. The vine withers, the fig tree droops. Pomegranate, palm, and apple tree -- all the trees of the field are dried up; surely, joy withers away among the people.

Yet another interesting parallel between Israel and Ugarit is the yearly ritual known as the sending out of the "scapegoats"; one for god and one for a demon. The Biblical text which relates this procedure is Leviticus 16:1-34. In this text a goat is sent into the wilderness for Azazel (a demon) and one is sent into the wilderness for Yahweh. This rite is known as a "eliminatory" rite; that is, a contagion (in this case communal sin) is placed on the head of the goat and it is sent away. In this way it was believed that (magically) the sinful material was removed from the community.

KTU 1.127 relates the same procedure at Ugarit; with one notable difference -- at Ugarit a woman priest was involved in the rite as well.

The rituals performed in Ugaritic worship involved a great deal of alcohol and sexual promiscuity. Worship at Ugarit was essentially a drunken orgy in which priests and worshippers indulged in excessive drinking and excessive sexuality. This because the worshippers were attempting to convince Baal to send rain on their crops. Since rain and semen were seen in the ancient world as the same thing (as both produced fruit), it simply makes sense that participants in fertility religion behaved this way. Perhaps this is why in Hebrew religion the priests were forbidden to partake of wine while performing any rituals and also why females were barred from the precincts!! (cf. Hos 4:11-14, Is 28:7-8, and Lev 10:8-11).

© Copyright Original Source

Read more: Torah, Ugartic Bible http://www.phoenicia.org/ugarbibl.html#ixzz3LAHYLLMw

[shunyadragon]

Source: http://www.phoenicia.org/ugarbibl.html#ixzz3LAKH2nnQ

The Cult of the Dead at Ugarit

In Ugarit two stela (stone monuments) have been discovered which demonstrate that the people there worshipped their dead ancestors. (Cf. KTU 6.13 and 6.14). The Prophets of the Old Testament likewise protested against this behavior when it occurred among the Israelites. Ezekiel denounces such behavior as godless and pagan (in 43:7-9).

Yet the Israelites sometimes participated in these pagan practices, as 1 Sam 28:1-25 clearly shows.

These dead ancestors were known among both the Phoenicians and Israelites as "Rephaim". As Isaiah notes, (14:9ff),


Sheol beneath is stirred up
to meet you when you come;
it rouses the Rephaim to greet you,
all who were leaders of the earth;
it raises from their thrones
all who were kings of the nations.
All of them will speak and say to you:
"You too have become as weak as we!
You have become like us!"
Your pomp is brought down to Sheol,
and the sound of your harps;
maggots are the bed beneath you,
and worms are your covering.

KTU 1.161 likewise describes the Rephaim as the dead. When one goes to the grave of an ancestor, one prays to them; feeds them; and brings them an offering (like flowers); all in hopes of securing the prayers of the dead.

The prophets despised this behavior; they saw it as a lack of trust in Yahweh, who is God of the living and not god of the dead. So, instead of honoring dead ancestors, Israel honored their live ancestors (as we clearly see in Ex 20:12, Deut 5:16, and Lev 19:3).

One of the more interesting aspects of this ancestor worship at Ugarit was the "festive meal" that the worshipper shared with the departed, called the "marzeach" (cf. Jer 16:5// with KTU 1.17 I 26-28 and KTU 1.20-22). This was, to the dwellers of Ugarit, what the Passover was to Israel and the Lord's Supper to the Church.

© Copyright Original Source

Read more: Torah, Ugartic Bible http://www.phoenicia.org/ugarbibl.html#ixzz3LAKH2nnQ

[shunyadragon]

I fully acknowledge later Hebrew editing and additions, but the evidence definitely supports Canaanite origins for the Book of Psalms and other parts of the Tanakh.

If there is any other possible source for the Book of Psalms where is the evidence?

[pancreasman]

Look, I admit I'm not very smart but is the argument this: There are some psalms that appear to be 'imported' from earlier sources, therefore the ENTIRE book of Psalms is from an earlier source?

I'm a musician. When I perform I have a set list. In my set list I might do a song by Woody Guthrie. The rest of my songs are originals. Does this mean Woody Guthrie wrote all my songs? That's cool!

[Adrift]

Look, I admit I'm not very smart but is the argument this: There are some psalms that appear to be 'imported' from earlier sources, therefore the ENTIRE book of Psalms is from an earlier source?

I'm a musician. When I perform I have a set list. In my set list I might do a song by Woody Guthrie. The rest of my songs are originals. Does this mean Woody Guthrie wrote all my songs? That's cool!

Yep. shunya is overstating his case when he says silly things like "the Book of Psalms is a Canaanite text". That's just not the case. Passages in the book of Psalms show possible indications of Canaanite origin and/or influence, but the whole of the book is not a Canaanite text.

And its telling that he hasn't actually read books on the subject by scholars like Mark Smith, John Day, Nicholas Wyatt or Richard Hess since all he's able to offer are citations from websites he's clearly Googled with words like "Canaanite" and "Bible".

I imagine shunya read some posts by showmeproof at some point, and got the facts turned around in his head. Wish showmeproof was around to help correct him.

[shunyadragon]

Look, I admit I'm not very smart but is the argument this: There are some psalms that appear to be 'imported' from earlier sources, therefore the ENTIRE book of Psalms is from an earlier source?

I'm a musician. When I perform I have a set list. In my set list I might do a song by Woody Guthrie. The rest of my songs are originals. Does this mean Woody Guthrie wrote all my songs? That's cool!

Where is the evidence for any, I mean any other possible source. If you read the references, there is more evidence then just some of the psalms. There is style, vocabulary, same poetic verse and style, and origin of the language.

Still waiting for any other evidence for a possible source of the Book of Psalms???

[jordanriver]

http://religionthink.wordpress.com/2...yahweh-praise/

This subject has been addressed in detail in a number of threads in the past, but here goes again. The only archeological and internal text evidence we have available is that the Book of Psalms is a Canaanite text, possibly edited later when added to Hebrew scripture. We have no other evidence for the origins of the Book of Psalms.

your source is reaching.
Your source is further excited because"


good grief, shunya, EVERYBODY got their wood from Lebanon.

here is an excerpt from Erik Hornung's History of Ancient EGYPT ISBN 0801484758

P 123-124
"Toward the end of his reign, Ramesses XI was also obliged to place the real power in the north of his realm into the hands of others. In his adventure-filled report on his travels, the Theban official Wenamum, who was charged with bringing wood from the Lebanon for the processional barque of Amun, mentions that by 1082 B.C.E., Smendes and his queen, Tentamun, were the real regents in Lower Egypt. His report further shows that Byblos had been independent of Egypt for at least a generation.
Byblos had turned to a new world power and was now tributary, along with Sidon and Arvad, to the Assyrian king, Tiglath-pileser I (1115-1076 B.C.E.), who had advanced as far as Lebonon. Egypt's imperial era was finished."