Bi-Polar Disorder

[Jade]

I have recently been diagnosed with Bi-polar disorder and find myself struggling with it. So I'd like to pose a couple of questions. First of all, are there other bipolars here? Second, of those who are, what do you find as most helpful in coping with it (What specific coping strategies work the best for you)?

[Sacrificial Ram]

I have recently been diagnosed with Bi-polar disorder and find myself struggling with it. So I'd like to pose a couple of questions. First of all, are there other bipolars here? Second, of those who are, what do you find as most helpful in coping with it (What specific coping strategies work the best for you)?
I know a number of people who have been diagnosed as bi-polar. Two of them were mis-diagnosed with it. One had it heavy enough that they have to take heavy meds, and STILL go into the hospital every year when it gets out of control.

Bi-polar disorder is now one of the 'fad' diagnoses for a wide range of things. That is because they have medicines for it. It has replaced the favorite diagnoses of 'Attention Deficency Disorder' for kids.

Since this is a recent diagnoses, I would try to get a second opinion. This time of year also has a lot of people with depression with Seasonal affective disorder syndrome (SADS), which can be helped with bright light, not chemcials.

Other than that, making sure you take the medications, and keep on getting consuling for it. Avoid alcohol, or any other kind of mood altering substances. Lead a healthy life style, with balanced diet, exercise, and
try get control the stress in your life will help keep the quality of your life up.

A resource for people with depression and bipolor disorder is
http://www.dbsalliance.org/. It also has links to online support groups, so
you can communicate with other people who suffer from it.

Good luck with overcoming this.

[BeHereNow]

I have recently been diagnosed with Bi-polar disorder and find myself struggling with it. So I'd like to pose a couple of questions. First of all, are there other bipolars here? Second, of those who are, what do you find as most helpful in coping with it (What specific coping strategies work the best for you)?

Jade, I used to be bipolar. I'm not sure how to answer your question, though, as it was about 7 years before I realized there was anything abnormal. A big part of bipolar, level I at least, is that you have an inflated self-esteem complex, where you think your life is seperated as special or blessed. So I thought others who weren't manic/depressive as I was were just not getting "it". Coping wasn't an issue, really, until I found out I was mentally ill.

What led you to believe you were bipolar and go see a psychiatrist? What symptoms do you exhibit?

When I found out that I was mentally imbalanced, the most helpful thing for me was discussion and education. I'd highly recommend picking up a book or two by Kay Redfield Jamison, the nation's leading authority on bipolar disorder (bpd) - she has literally written the textbook. You can find her stuff on Amazon. Night Falls Fast is an excellent primer to understand the disorder, and as it relates to suicide. An Unquiet Mind is her personal account as both a psychologist and bpd patient. I can't recommend both strongly enough. Only problem is that she hasn't healed herself, and tends to view the disorder the way Alcoholics Anonymous views substance abuse. I believe 100% recovery is possible.


Imo, knowledge is the key to growth. Learn as much as you can.

When I'm less drowsy I'll share more, but right now I'd be surprised if I'm even coheren.

[keith]

I have recently been diagnosed with Bi-polar disorder and find myself struggling with it. So I'd like to pose a couple of questions. First of all, are there other bipolars here? Second, of those who are, what do you find as most helpful in coping with it (What specific coping strategies work the best for you)?
Hi,

I was not sure whether to respond to this one since I do not have the condition myself. However, I have worked professionally in Mental Health in hospital settings for a number of years (the other side of the desk if you like).

I would echo the sound advice that has already been given. If you are not convinced that the diagnosis is correct then seek a second opinion. If you decide to take some form of medication (e.g. lithium, valproate, carbamazepine) do check for possible side effects. These are particularly important if you are pregnant or thinking about getting pregnant. (Sometimes professionals, esp. males overlook this but it is important).

There is a lot to be said for revisiting the real basics, diet, exercise, good close relationships, lifestyle, not to mention prayer.

For more information from a health service user perspective there is a good website at www.mind.org.uk (http://www.mind.org.uk) where they have leaflets you can read or download for free. They list bi-polar under its older name, manic depression btw.

Keith

[Jade]

What led you to believe you were bipolar and go see a psychiatrist? What symptoms do you exhibit?
It was sort of a process of events. First I had a really nasty depression that set in fast and hard. About five days into I started seeing something akin to visions, such as: Swerving into oncoming traffic on the freeway, picking up a knife and stabbing myself, etc. These visions were followed immediately with panic attacks. When I told my husband, he panicked and took me to the psych hospital. I was put on an antidepressant (first on Cymbalta; then on Effexor XR instead.) and also on an anti-anxiety med, Klonopin. After 13 days I was released.

For two weeks straight I was back to normal. Then gradually I started having too much energy (very unusual for me), I began sleeping only 4-5 hours a night and not missing the lost sleep. Also when ever I drove on the expressway, I began speeding more and more. Normally I only drive maybe 5-10 mph over the speed limit, and then only because crept up without realizing it. But now I was driving 20-25 mph over the speed limit. I felt like I was tied to the car's motor. If I slowed down I felt uncomfortable. Also I went on a couple of spending sprees, buying paints and crafts to do during my free time. Normally I'm more of a "tight wad" attempting to keep my husband from spending too much. These spending sprees got us into trouble as I stopped keeping up with the checkbook register. As a result our rent check bounced. This whole period of time lasted about 8 days.

Then on the eighth day, I crashed back into depression, and this time not only was I seeing things but also hearing voices encouraging me to kill myself. So back to the hospital I went. Upon relating the past 3-4 weeks to my psychiatrist, and undergoing an evaluation, my doctor told me I was bipolar. He weaned me off the Klonopin and put me on Geodon instead.


When I found out that I was mentally imbalanced, the most helpful thing for me was discussion and education. I'd highly recommend picking up a book or two by Kay Redfield Jamison, the nation's leading authority on bipolar disorder (bpd) - she has literally written the textbook. You can find her stuff on Amazon. Night Falls Fast is an excellent primer to understand the disorder, and as it relates to suicide. An Unquiet Mind is her personal account as both a psychologist and bpd patient. I can't recommend both strongly enough. Only problem is that she hasn't healed herself, and tends to view the disorder the way Alcoholics Anonymous views substance abuse. I believe 100% recovery is possible.

I've been out of the hospital a week now. And so far so good. I'm currently reading, The Bipolar Disorder Survival Guide by David J. Milowitz, PhD. He references Kay Jamison several times. I'm only 70 pages into it right now. But when I finish I'll puck up a couple of her books.


Imo, knowledge is the key to growth. Learn as much as you can.

When I'm less drowsy I'll share more, but right now I'd be surprised if I'm even coheren.
Thank you, I'll look forward to your next post then. You've been plenty co-herent.

:smile:

[brother vinny]

Second, of those who are, what do you find as most helpful in coping with it (What specific coping strategies work the best for you)?

I find beating my wife helps. :smile:

[Jade]

Sacrificial Ram, Thanks for your support and advice. Healty diet, excercise, and cope with/reduce stressors: these are all things I should work on.

keith, I appreciate your post, It is good to get other perspectives as well. Thanks for imput.

There is a lot to be said for revisiting the real basics, diet, exercise, good close relationships, lifestyle, not to mention prayer.
Amen!

:smile:

[Jade]

I find beating my wife helps. :smile::jade::whack:BV

Get thee back to the Locker Room, or I'll have Dee Dee send her lightning bolt in your direction.
:tongue:

[Sacrificial Ram]

It was sort of a process of events. First I had a really nasty depression that set in fast and hard. About five days into I started seeing something akin to visions, such as: Swerving into oncoming traffic on the freeway, picking up a knife and stabbing myself, etc. These visions were followed immediately with panic attacks. When I told my husband, he panicked and took me to the psych hospital. I was put on an antidepressant (first on Cymbalta; then on Effexor XR instead.) and also on an anti-anxiety med, Klonopin. After 13 days I was released.

For two weeks straight I was back to normal. Then gradually I started having too much energy (very unusual for me), I began sleeping only 4-5 hours a night and not missing the lost sleep. Also when ever I drove on the expressway, I began speeding more and more. Normally I only drive maybe 5-10 mph over the speed limit, and then only because crept up without realizing it. But now I was driving 20-25 mph over the speed limit. I felt like I was tied to the car's motor. If I slowed down I felt uncomfortable. Also I went on a couple of spending sprees, buying paints and crafts to do during my free time. Normally I'm more of a "tight wad" attempting to keep my husband from spending too much. These spending sprees got us into trouble as I stopped keeping up with the checkbook register. As a result our rent check bounced. This whole period of time lasted about 8 days.

Then on the eighth day, I crashed back into depression, and this time not only was I seeing things but also hearing voices encouraging me to kill myself. So back to the hospital I went. Upon relating the past 3-4 weeks to my psychiatrist, and undergoing an evaluation, my doctor told me I was bipolar. He weaned me off the Klonopin and put me on Geodon instead.


I've been out of the hospital a week now. And so far so good. I'm currently reading, The Bipolar Disorder Survival Guide by David J. Milowitz, PhD. He references Kay Jamison several times. I'm only 70 pages into it right now. But when I finish I'll puck up a couple of her books.


Thank you, I'll look forward to your next post then. You've been plenty co-herent.

:smile:
It sounds like you certainly went through an ordeal there. I hope for the best for you. I would read up on what ever meds you are given, and see
what the potential side effects are.

Someone I know was diagnosed as ADHD in their teenage years, and was put on meds. When she was in her late teens, she discovered that the two meds she were taken had side effects that the other was supposed to counter. (The side effect of each drug was what the other drug was used to treat). Once she was able to get off both the drugs, she did just fine.

I am not saying that will happen to you, but just be aware of drug interactions and side effects.

[Eyeheart Pumpkin]

Bi-polar disorder is now one of the 'fad' diagnoses for a wide range of things. That is because they have medicines for it. It has replaced the favorite diagnoses of 'Attention Deficency Disorder' for kids.
Geez, I hope that's not too widespread. After all, the medications used to treat ADD or ADHD (like ritalin) and those used to treat bi-polar (like lithium) are geared toward completely different symptoms and effects. A misdiagnosis like that can be dangerous! A dear friend of mine is truly bi-polar but was misdiagnosed with ADHD and given ritalin for a few months. The results were almost disastrous! She straightened out a lot when they finally correctly diagnosed her as bipolar.

As to the OP, I know a few people who are bipolar, some more extreme than others. One of them is practically unable to function without an intermediary between him and just about any social encounter. Most of them are a lot less extreme, though. Another close friend (not the one in the above paragraph) is diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder, but she doesn't take any medication for it. Instead, she pursues a regular fitness routine, working out several times a week, and that seems to keep her pretty level. She's been doing that for years and hasn't had any major problems.

[BeHereNow]

Jade, thanks for sharing the information about your experiences. I can empathize with your suicide fantasies (fantasy may be too strong of a word) and spending sprees. I went through that also, but thought it was normal for years and years. It scared me when my dad would take me to the shooting range, because I could never stop thinking about shooting him and myself. Thankfully, I never did it.

It sounds to me like you are on a good course for recovery. Education, therapy, and treatment can be a good combination. I'd also echo Keith's advice about diet and exercise. In one of her books, Jamison talks about new research, mostly led by Joseph Hibbeln, that shows a statistically significant correllation between diet and depression + aggression. Here's a good summary of what he's found:

http://www.antenna.nl/nsmd/870.html

Another web page with more specified information can be found here: http://www.ect.org/selfhelp/fats.html

Hibbeln recommends taking fish oil supplements, or eating a lot of fish, to certain increase levels of fatty acids. While I've never personally tried this, it may be something to look into.

If you decide to start an exercise routine, make sure to start out slow so you don't get burnt out. Just start with an easy 10-minutes a day workout of some sort, possibly some stretching and cardiovascular like jumping jacks or jogging in place. There's a lot to be said for proper blood circulation.

And my most important advice is this: stay positive. Chemical imbalance is something you don't have to accept. The medical industry treats bipolar like it's a lifelong battle, the way AA treats alcoholism as lifelong. I've got a big problem with both of those, as it makes you dependent. You can be free, and the time will come as long as you stay positive and stay focused. Your husband sounds caring and supportive, which is wonderful (be careful not to begrudge him that in the future).

I wish you wellness.

[learning]

I am glad you are getting help Jade, I remember reading your blog and I thought it sounded like bi-polar. I was trying to think of a movie star who has it, and has written books about it, and couldn't think of her name. I saw another one of her books at a book store the other day, so this may help. Her name is Patty Duke, and she used to play a character called 'Gidget' I think, in the 60's and 70's on t.v. and did some movies too. If you do a google or amazon search, I'm sure you'll find her book. I have seen from the cover of it, she takes the personal side of going through it and I thought that might be helpful.

Another thought on exercise, walking 10 to 20 minutes a day can be helpful, but if you've got ichy winter wet weather like we do, just putting on a favorite up beat CD or tape on and dancing to that (when no one is around so you can just be yourself) is a fun way to get a little exercise in. Or even putting on up beat music while vacuuming or housecleaning can put you both in a good mood and help increase your exercise. But it is best to be as consistent as possible. At first, though, give yourself a rest, like only exercise every other day.

Here is a link to amazon with the title of her book 'A Brilliant Madness' and it also has other books listed that are related, some I think were mentioned above.
www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0553560727/103-1628350-9283840

[kofh2u]

I know a number of people who have been diagnosed as bi-polar. Two of them were mis-diagnosed with it. One had it heavy enough that they have to take heavy meds, and STILL go into the hospital every year when it gets out of control.

Bi-polar disorder is now one of the 'fad' diagnoses for a wide range of things. That is because they have medicines for it. It has replaced the favorite diagnoses of 'Attention Deficency Disorder' for kids.

Since this is a recent diagnoses, I would try to get a second opinion. This time of year also has a lot of people with depression with Seasonal affective disorder syndrome (SADS), which can be helped with bright light, not chemcials.

Other than that, making sure you take the medications, and keep on getting consuling for it. Avoid alcohol, or any other kind of mood altering substances. Lead a healthy life style, with balanced diet, exercise, and
try get control the stress in your life will help keep the quality of your life up.

A resource for people with depression and bipolor disorder is
http://www.dbsalliance.org/. It also has links to online support groups, so
you can communicate with other people who suffer from it.

Good luck with overcoming this.



I second your comments and advice.

Bi-polar seems too easily applied to difficult to treat disorders.

[Jade]

I've been spending the last month or so researching the Net for everything on bipolar or Manic depression. I've also read Bipolar Survival Guide, and I've read parts of Night Falls Fast and An Unquiet Mind by Kay R. Jamison. I feel the need to learn everything there is to know about it -- and to know it sooner rather than later. I know that when I fall into depression, I don't care to read or learn anything. It's so wierd how this illness can change my thinking, even my belief system in as little time as three or four days. When I'm in a normal period or in a hypomania phase (3 weeks), I very much want to live. But then, often very suddenly, my mood changes and my thought patterns change. There's no external reason, no unfortunate events, nothing externally going on to sour my mood. It's at that point that I don't want to live. In fact, It's all that I think about. These thoughts aren't all self initiated, and I'm not refering to the walls talking to me, either. Rather the sudden thoughts that come out of the clear blue. Then one day I'm back to my normal self.

Anyways, all that just to say, thanks for the advice and research material already given. :smile: And if anyone else knows of any good books on the subject etc. or some good research articles on the web that I may have overlooked, please list them here.

[dizzle]

I admire the transparency and personal courage of you folks sharing your experiences.

[Jade]

I admire the transparency and personal courage of you folks sharing your experiences.

Aww! *blush* :hug:

[Lazy Agnostic]

I admire the transparency and personal courage of you folks sharing your experiences.But will you let them babysit your children?

[brother vinny]

Gee, Lazy Ag, you'll insert your snide little comments anywhere you find purchase, won't you?

Why don't you go crawl back under the rock you emerged from, you sniveling twerp?

[Solly]

Thanks for this thread Jade. I was diagnosed as manic-depressive in my twenties, though not needing to be medicated. I used to go up and up, thinking of all the great things I would do, and then come crashing down, and fantasise about death and dying. Death played a part in it, in that part of the crash came from realising that whatever I did, death would cut it short. It made for a miserable 8 years, and the only things that kept me going was listening to Rush, wallowing in Mahler's symphonies, and Star Trek novels. It'd be nice to say Jesus sorted it all, but I came out of it some years before I was converted. I think mine was mainly bad thinking, linked to a tendency to depression that runs in our family - my mother was hospitalised twice, and my sister had post-natal.
:blush: I even tried drowning my sorrows in alcohol once - cos that's what you are supposed to do, eh? - and just got sick, since I didn't normally drink.
I'm glad you've got each other, and the understanding that comes from mutual suffering. Take the advice above, won't you. American diets are so unhealthy, get onto fresh fruit and vegetables, avoid red meat, sugars etc.

[dizzle]

But will you let them babysit your children?

That was really uncalled for. Considering that I have struggled with depression myself and have bouts of minor OCD, I understand that people who have inbalances that causes these things are not out of control nuts to be mocked or treated as incompetents. I have been on the receiving end of trying to discredit anything I say because of my transparency on these issues and it is low - beyond low if you were aware of the numerous emails and PMs I get over the years thanking so much for my transparency on struggles because they have felt shamed into silence and don't seek the help and support that they need - thus for THOSE people I remain open despite the occasional low blows. Please try to have a little more consideration.

This is a near and dear issue to me, especially for the Christian community.

[Cliodna Emerges]

:hi: Jade!

My dearest friend was diagnosed with bipolar when we were teens. She attempted suicide multiple times, and her parents sent her to an institution for over a year. Those were very rough times. As she's gotten older, it seems to have alleviated. She still rides the emotional roller coaster, but the other symptoms are all but gone. They think she may have been misdiagnosed. I try to be understanding, but it is hard to know how it feels without going through it. A website that has helped her is:

www.harbor-of-refuge.org (http://www.harbor-of-refuge.org)

It has a forum and additional information for those diagnosed with bipolar. The forum sometimes allows family members to participate as well, so that they can offer support when you need it.

[Lazy Agnostic]

But will you let them babysit your children?When I realized that wasn't at all funny, I decided to not post it. Somehow it made it through. My apologies.

[BeHereNow]

Jade, it's great that you are reading Jamison. What do you think of her work?

Here's advice you will not find in a book: when you are in one of your good mood periods, think of your favorite thing in life, something concrete and real (as opposed to love, or whatever). When you are in your suicidal moods, recall this as your reason for living.

For me, it was jazz music. I thought to myself, if there is one thing worth living for, it's to hear live jazz music. It helped me many times.

[Richbee]

I just heard of:

http://www.depressionhelp.com

[Peter Kirby]

I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder in the fall of 2003. Simple advice here (probably not needed): always work with your doctor before adjusting doses or discontinuing a medication. Another piece of advice that I wish I had in 2003 is to seek out an expert in psychology if you detect symptoms (you don't need to wait to be hospitalized...not least because the doctor assigned to you in the hospital may be overworked with hundreds of patients). For me the only symptom that I reported to my general practitioner was an inability to sleep well. He put me on zyprexa, which I discontinued using when my prescription ran out. This threw me into an extreme mania. I was home alone and spent most of the time when I was manic on the Internet. Which is not the best way to ground yourself, let me tell you.

I know that some people here remember that episode, as I posted here among other places at the time. It is getting late, so I am going to turn in, but I am willing to talk about my experiences more later, or answer questions.

best wishes,
Peter Kirby

[learning]

Larry Norman, known as the father of Christian rock and roll, I believe was diagnosed with bi-polar, after he had a head injury where the roof of an air-plane landed on his head when they had a rough landing. In some of the videos, one can see he is not like before the accident. He seems to have a difficult time remembering even the words of his own song. He actually seemed to have a nicer personality, less sarcastic wit! He also had times when the depression in his music, or anger, definitely came through. But through medication and prayer, one can see that he gained back his very artistic mind. His sarcastic wit and musical ability to write songs is back. So I do believe that healing can happen.

I have an idea that many artistic persons have had bi-polar disease, and we wouldn't have the great music and art that our world has if they had not had this.

[JardinPrayer]

Okay, I'm just catching up with all of this now, though I've bumped into BV and others on PalTalk and am aware that Jade has been ill and, I believe, is currently hospitalized (yes?). Here's my input.

I was diagnosed with "Major Depression" in 1994 and placed on Prozac along with millions of others at that time. As we now know (and did not then), when you give a bipolar person Prozac, it can lead to suicidal ideation and attempts that were not previously an issue. Hence, I had a nearly successful attempt in February of 1995. Following that, the docs went, "Oops, you're bipolar," and a series of meds were tried before we settled on Lithium, which I have been on since then.

The psychiatrist who monitors my meds now says I am, indeed, bipolar with what he calls "hypo-mania," that meaning I don't go into full manic episodes where I stay up for days and cannot control behavior like the driving experiences and spending Jade describes. But, I do have "up" days that are a little more "up" than the average bear. The downs, however, are far worse and can last for weeks. I have tried to go off the meds from time to time and, although I think BHN's advice is gentle and wonderful, I personally cannot function in the world like a normal person if I do not have my brain chemistry regulated pharmacalogically.

You guys all know I had a lot of loss last year. It wreaked havoc on my brain chemistry. I lost my last 3 jobs...and I believe it was all due, in one way or another, to my inability to function appropriately in the business world. Medication - and the RIGHT medication - is an important option, and it's not an exact science. There's a lot of trial and error. Our bodies also change, so that's why you need to find a psychiatrist you trust to monitor you and make adjustments if necessary.

Now, I'm leaving the most important thing to last. I know I'm sometimes addressing Jade in the first person here and sometimes in the third, but I'm hoping BV can bring this information to her, so I'm going with first person right now.

Jade, dear sister, some of the things you describe do not fit with what I have come to understand about biploar disporder over the last decade...they cross over into a more serious condition. Hearing voices is one of those things. Seeing things that are not there is another. I urge you to test your doctors as closely as they are testing you and be sure they are competent to diagnose and treat you. I cannot tell you how many times and in how many ways I have suffered needlessly at the hands of well-meaning psychiatric professionals who were - at best - hapless. I'm heartened that you are doing your own research...I fully believe that we should all be armed with as much knowledge about our own bodies and minds as possible BEFORE trusting them to other flawed humans. Incidentally, you have not mentioned whether you have a family history of mental illness (I do) or if your own struggles with depression began suddenly or have been a part of you for a good part of your life. These are questions I'm sure you've been asked and are important and relevant to diagnosis.

Lastly, I'm sure you know you are in the prayers of very many people right now, but I want you to know you are taking top billing on my list since I have been through some dark times that are similar to the storm you are walking through now. I am with you in spirit, sister, and you had better know that God is holding you close right now. I know how easy it is to forget that in the darkness and I'm counting on BV to be telling you that every time he sees you...I'm confident he is. Your soul is safe with God...give it to Him.

P.S. Fish oil is also a wonderful healer, as BHN said...not only for brain chemistry, but joint pain and as an anti-oxidant. I'm a big fan.

[BeHereNow]

Jardin-

Do you think things are gradually getting better or worse for you?

Have any of the treatments you've tried provided any noticeable benefit?

[JardinPrayer]

Jardin-

Do you think things are gradually getting better or worse for you?

Have any of the treatments you've tried provided any noticeable benefit?

The best way I can answer that is that the most important benefit for me has been finding a psychiatrist who knows his medications and is willing to monitor me closely and make adjustments when necessary. When I went through all the loss, I got a little freaky...others in my family and my husband noticed my behavior had changed in an alarming way, while I thought the problem was that everyone else had changed. The doctor temporarily doubled my Lithium and it worked like magic. He also added Topamax, which is an anti-seizure medication that also helps with depression and sleep disorders. I was having some post-traumatic stress symptoms - mostly flashbacks of things I had not seen but had images of since 3 of the 4 deaths were violent gun deaths - that would wake me out of a sound sleep sometimes and happen unexpectedly at others. I don't have them anymore.

I am now changing hormonally because of my age, so things are getting more complicated...another reason for keeping monitored.

I would say I have been able to maintain stability for longer periods of time when my meds are right and my life is routinized. Right now, I've been out of work since November, so without a daily routine, I don't do as well at staying emotionally even...but knowing that and being on the right meds helps me take conscious control to a certain degree.

It's not a black/white answer. Did that help?

[brother vinny]

Gosh. Just found ouit today that Jade's doctor think that she may have OCD on top of bipolar.

Think I'll just go and have a little lie-down. :sad:

[JardinPrayer]

I hope you either trust your doctor implicitly or are seeking another opinion. I would not take diagnoses as serious as these without corroboration, BV. Jade needs you strong and on your feet and taking charge of her well-being right now...that means thinking clearly about stuff like that since she may not be able to. Maybe the doctor is right...best way to find out is to hear it from another one...one whose credentials you have checked out to your satisfaction.

Speaking from personal experience here.

With love and in prayer,
Jardin

[BeHereNow]

The best way I can answer that is that the most important benefit for me has been finding a psychiatrist who knows his medications and is willing to monitor me closely and make adjustments when necessary. When I went through all the loss, I got a little freaky...others in my family and my husband noticed my behavior had changed in an alarming way, while I thought the problem was that everyone else had changed. The doctor temporarily doubled my Lithium and it worked like magic. He also added Topamax, which is an anti-seizure medication that also helps with depression and sleep disorders. I was having some post-traumatic stress symptoms - mostly flashbacks of things I had not seen but had images of since 3 of the 4 deaths were violent gun deaths - that would wake me out of a sound sleep sometimes and happen unexpectedly at others. I don't have them anymore.

I am now changing hormonally because of my age, so things are getting more complicated...another reason for keeping monitored.

I would say I have been able to maintain stability for longer periods of time when my meds are right and my life is routinized. Right now, I've been out of work since November, so without a daily routine, I don't do as well at staying emotionally even...but knowing that and being on the right meds helps me take conscious control to a certain degree.

It's not a black/white answer. Did that help?

Yeah that was a good answer. I wish I had some words of wisdom for you, but I do not.

You may want to consider keeping a journal, if you do not already. Keep it semi-brief and let your psychiatrist/therapist skim it periodically to monitor progression.

Peace :)

[Jade]

Jade, dear sister, some of the things you describe do not fit with what I have come to understand about biploar disporder over the last decade...they cross over into a more serious condition. Hearing voices is one of those things. Seeing things that are not there is another. I urge you to test your doctors as closely as they are testing you and be sure they are competent to diagnose and treat you. I cannot tell you how many times and in how many ways I have suffered needlessly at the hands of well-meaning psychiatric professionals who were - at best - hapless. I'm heartened that you are doing your own research...I fully believe that we should all be armed with as much knowledge about our own bodies and minds as possible BEFORE trusting them to other flawed humans.

You are correct that hallucinations are not required in order to receive a diagnosis of Bipolar Disorder. However any time depression is severe enough to be hospitalized, there is a chance it will cross over into psychosis.

Incidentally, you have not mentioned whether you have a family history of mental illness (I do) or if your own struggles with depression began suddenly or have been a part of you for a good part of your life. These are questions I'm sure you've been asked and are important and relevant to diagnosis.


I do have a history of mental illness, although it isn't very concrete. My maternal grandmother was put in a nursing home 35 years ago some sort of disassociative disorder together with psychosis. She never had a real diagnosis though. And my mom has some symptoms of both bipolar and OCD, but it's not severe enough for her to seek treatment.

I had my first bout of depression when I was 15, it lasted 5-6 months. Then the year after I graduated from High School, I was diagnosed with having dysthymia. For the next 6 years I'd have occassion bouts of "the blues" Then all of a sudden in December of last year I had my first bout of hypomania followed by severe depression (although I didn't recognize the hypomania part as such until later). Since December I have been cycling once every 4-6 weeks or there abouts: One week of hypomania, 2-3 weeks of depression, and 1-2 weeks of normalcy.

So there you have it; my mental life in a nutshell.

[Sacrificial Ram]

You are correct that hallucinations are not required in order to receive a diagnosis of Bipolar Disorder. However any time depression is severe enough to be hospitalized, there is a chance it will cross over into psychosis.



I do have a history of mental illness, although it isn't very concrete. My maternal grandmother was put in a nursing home 35 years ago some sort of disassociative disorder together with psychosis. She never had a real diagnosis though. And my mom has some symptoms of both bipolar and OCD, but it's not severe enough for her to seek treatment.

I had my first bout of depression when I was 15, it lasted 5-6 months. Then the year after I graduated from High School, I was diagnosed with having dysthymia. For the next 6 years I'd have occassion bouts of "the blues" Then all of a sudden in December of last year I had my first bout of hypomania followed by severe depression (although I didn't recognize the hypomania part as such until later). Since December I have been cycling once every 4-6 weeks or there abouts: One week of hypomania, 2-3 weeks of depression, and 1-2 weeks of normalcy.

So there you have it; my mental life in a nutshell.

I am glad you are being normal right now, and I do hope that they will be able to get you out of the cycle and back to being level. It sounds like it is a very tough situation to go through. May they find the proper treatment for you!

[Jade]

I am glad you are being normal right now, and I do hope that they will be able to get you out of the cycle and back to being level. It sounds like it is a very tough situation to go through. May they find the proper treatment for you!

Thank you. :flowers:

[Jade]

UPDATE: I'm about halfway through a cycle (or what would usually be). So far the new meds seems to be working. I'm usually solidly manic by now, and all I'm noticing is a little restlessness. My sleep is not effected and my thoughts, although fast are not racing. In fact, I even had a nap today. Time has yet to reveal how I'll do on the depressive side. But I'm hoping it will also be greatly reduced.

[BeHereNow]

That's great, Jade. Thanks for sharing.

[sing27]

That's great, Jade. Thanks for sharing.


Hi, my sister-in-law is bi-polar. I've seen her struggle and know that it's a difficult situation to be in. I don't know what your belief system is; but hope that you continue to do well.
sing27

[Charly]

You are not alone. This consumer has been on meds for several years and finds that like in some of John Denver's songs, some days are like diamonds and some days are like stones. For the most part, I do not like being around people and I am much of a loner. My background is in psychology and education, so I have been able to kind of come to terms with my medical condition. I find that being a person of faith helps but I have found that the Church that I am acquanted with doesn't have much understanding at all about people with Bi-Polar and other like-conditions. I do depend on my day by day walk and talk with the Lord and He is the one ready and willing to listen(He answers too). At one point in my life I was so depressed that I didn't even have the energy to get out of the bed and feed myself. The one-time I checked myself into a private hospital, I found there were a number of consumers who were not even getting along as well as I. Just to look at most of these consumers you wouldn't think anything was amiss with their life. I noticed that there were several consumers who were being given electric shock treatment while I was in that hospital. Several years ago I was on Lithium and it worked for me for a while. Not too long ago Prozac didn't seem to be helping with my depression and my doctor started me on some other meds that seem to be really working well. In all, I take (6) six different meds for my condition today. If you get a chance to watch it, A Beautiful Mind is an outstanding movie for consumers like you to watch and be blessed. charterflyer123@hotmail.com

[Adam]

You are not alone. This consumer has been on meds for several years and finds that like in some of John Denver's songs, some days are like diamonds and some days are like stones. For the most part, I do not like being around people and I am much of a loner. My background is in psychology and education, so I have been able to kind of come to terms with my medical condition. I find that being a person of faith helps but I have found that the Church that I am acquanted with doesn't have much understanding at all about people with Bi-Polar and other like-conditions. I do depend on my day by day walk and talk with the Lord and He is the one ready and willing to listen(He answers too). At one point in my life I was so depressed that I didn't even have the energy to get out of the bed and feed myself. The one-time I checked myself into a private hospital, I found there were a number of consumers who were not even getting along as well as I. Just to look at most of these consumers you wouldn't think anything was amiss with their life. I noticed that there were several consumers who were being given electric shock treatment while I was in that hospital. Several years ago I was on Lithium and it worked for me for a while. Not too long ago Prozac didn't seem to be helping with my depression and my doctor started me on some other meds that seem to be really working well. In all, I take (6) six different meds for my condition today. If you get a chance to watch it, A Beautiful Mind is an outstanding movie for consumers like you to watch and be blessed. charterflyer123@hotmail.com
Bipolar or not, people, log on to RemedyFind to get lots of leads on treatments for all kinds of illnesses, orthodox and unorthodox (no, I don't mean Devil-worship, I mean alternative medicine like herbs and exercises). It's free and not selling anything.
Bipolar II is what I have, just about as difficult to treat. The difference is mostly severity--I have never been hospitalized nor arrested. I don't get manic, just hypomanic. The main problem with hypomanic (which can actually feel *good*) is that you think you can solve all your problems just by thinking hard enough about it. That's also why so many Bipolars and Bipolar IIs don't continue their treatments when they should. They don't think they need it and they don't like coming down off the the mania or hypo-mania.
It's hereditary, so my daughter has a severe case of it, and I know how bad it can be. My son is schizophrenic.
Lithium has many bad long term effects, and carbamazephine requires careful monitoring. Depakote is safer. All of these give me migraine headaches, however (a common problem with Bipolar IIs), so I have had to go to all the expensive new drugs in very small doses. Over a 48-hour period I take in 12-hour intervals Trileptal, Zyprexa, Topamax, and Lamictal. In small enough doses not repeated for two days they don't give me migraines, and Zyprexa works for me as a migraine cure. (For some people, all the drugs I have mentioned except Lithium are also used to prevent migraines and in large doses to prevent epileptic seizures.)
Adam

[sing27]

Hi,

I appreciate the honesty here. I'm wondering if any of you have had problems with denial? Were you ever unable to face the fact that mental illness was an issue for you? I would appreciate some advice regarding my sister-in-law. Her mental illness started, as far as we know, about 20 something years ago. It came on gradually. More than likely the propensity has been there since childhood, but something seemed to push her over the edge, so to speak. She has been seeing a psychiatrist off and on for at least 10 years now. She's tried a large variety of drugs. She's also very good at hiding her mental illness. Recently she fell and fractured her neck. My husband and I have had to take care of her affairs since she's been in the hospital and now rehab. We are just now coming to terms with the extent of her illness. While in the hospital, we found that she was extremely paranoid. She continually described the hospital and its staff as being like "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest." She called 911 twice trying to get someone to get her out. Today she's better in regard to the paranoia but continues to have a great deal of fear. When we went to her home to feed her cats for her, what we found there was dumbfounding. I won't go into details but the house was in utter chaos and filth. What's difficult for us is that my sister-in-law doesn't seem to be able to discuss or face her problems head on. She obviously knows that she has difficulties or she wouldn't be seeing a psychiatrist; however, she doesn't seem to know just how sick she really is. We're not sure how to discuss these things with her. She says that she's a Christian, but it only seems to give her very limited strength. Would anyone here be willing to offer some advice?

[TCapp]

I'm sorry you suffer with this junk. :frown: May you be healed one day.

[BeHereNow]

Hi,

I appreciate the honesty here. I'm wondering if any of you have had problems with denial? Were you ever unable to face the fact that mental illness was an issue for you?

Yes. When I was first diagnosed, I was still experiencing a common Bipoloar syndrome, which is that you are someone who is special and somehow given this gift, or a mixed blessing. So, I thought the doctors were trying to rob me of what God had given me.

It wasn't until after I did a lot of research on the issue that I realized I met almost every criterion for it.

I would appreciate some advice regarding my sister-in-law. Her mental illness started, as far as we know, about 20 something years ago. It came on gradually. More than likely the propensity has been there since childhood, but something seemed to push her over the edge, so to speak. She has been seeing a psychiatrist off and on for at least 10 years now. She's tried a large variety of drugs. She's also very good at hiding her mental illness. Recently she fell and fractured her neck. My husband and I have had to take care of her affairs since she's been in the hospital and now rehab. We are just now coming to terms with the extent of her illness. While in the hospital, we found that she was extremely paranoid. She continually described the hospital and its staff as being like "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest." She called 911 twice trying to get someone to get her out. Today she's better in regard to the paranoia but continues to have a great deal of fear. When we went to her home to feed her cats for her, what we found there was dumbfounding. I won't go into details but the house was in utter chaos and filth. What's difficult for us is that my sister-in-law doesn't seem to be able to discuss or face her problems head on. She obviously knows that she has difficulties or she wouldn't be seeing a psychiatrist; however, she doesn't seem to know just how sick she really is. We're not sure how to discuss these things with her. She says that she's a Christian, but it only seems to give her very limited strength. Would anyone here be willing to offer some advice?

Lord, I can't even touch that. I will say that her house needs to be cleaned up, but don't do it for her. Offer to do it with her. Seriously, your living quarters make a huge impact on your mental state, and vice versa.

But if she's been seeing a psychologist for 10 years... there's nothing I could possibly say to help. She probably views the illness as a special friend by now and has become attached to and dependant upon it. I missed mine for at least a year or two, because I wasn't used to peace.

Good luck to you and your family.

[Charly]

You can purchase vits at walmart etc. and get quality and best prices. I load up on vits each day and I can really tell an improvement in my overall feeling of well being when I take the following on a regular basis: 4 softgels spring valley fish oil(Natural Fish Oil Concentrate per gel=1,000 mg and EPA=180 mg and DHA=120 mg)at 250 gel bottle for $11.94. Most recommend a mega dose of 2,500mg EPA per day and 2,000 mg DHA day and also 200 mg of DHEA day and I take these also in addition to the 4 fish oil softgels. 3 tabs Rexall NOS for Nitric Oxide Synthesis(Contains L-arginine 3,000 mg per tab and 1,773 mg Alpha-Ketoglutarate per tab)at $13.96 for 120 tab bottle. 2 tabs MEGA-T green tea dietary supplement(each tab metabolic support blend contains 775 mcg per tab) at $9.92 per 90 tab bottle supply. Spring Valley 2,000 mg vit C per day. Bilberry Extract Rexall- 2,000 mg per day. Selenium 200 mcg at $3.58 per 100 tab bottle. Rexall Cinnamon 1,000 mg at 100 cps bottle at $4.96. Rexall Policosanol 20 mg per day $6.86 for 150 sofgel bottle. Spring Valley Potassium 99 mg per day only at $4.17 for 250 caplet bottle. Spring Valley(Natural Whole Herb) Cranberry Fruit 4 tab per day at 475 mg per tab.NOW DOCTORS say take 400 vit E d-alpha a day(I take 1,400 I.U. per day and plan to do so until the end of the age.)Spring Valley Odor Free Garlic 1,200 mg per tab 200 tab bottle for $4.94. Spring Valley Biotin 1,000 mcg per day 60 tab at $1.38 per bottle. Rexall(take 2 tab per day) Acetyl L-Carnitine(500MG) plus Alpha Lipoic Acid(200mg) 30 tab bottle for $7.96 and most tell you to take 600mg of Alpha Lipoic Acid. Spring Valley (Standard Extract) Grape Plus Seed 50 mg extract per capsule at one per day. $6.24 for 72 cap bottle. Spring Valley 800 mcg tab per day Folic Acid 250 tab bottle for $2.43. Spring Valley (organic Flax Oil) 3,000 mg per day 100 softgels at $4.48 per bottle. Rexall L-Glutamine 500 mg per day 50 tab bottle for $2.84. MOST EXPENSIVE OF THE LOT. Rexall Q-Sorb Super Potency Co Q-10 200 mg per day 50 softgel bottle is $26.75. Rexall Time Release B-3 (Niacin) 250 mg per dayCAUTION:Do not take more than 250 mg of time release niacin , except under supervision of a doctor. Spring Valley Natural Zinc 50 mg per day. Chromium 1,000 mg per day. I take in addition to these: one walmart equate complete multivitamin supplement. My Mental Health Consultant told me I had his permission to take S-A-M-E and St. John's Wort if I wanted to try them out. While the cost for vits is not cheep, I find that the bebefit I receive is well worth the price.

[Charly]

I have had much contact with many people who are (we all agree are ill). One common thread of the condition is their not living a life with the same values as the rest of the world. If you meet someone who is ill like this, you will soon find that they neglect taking care of their body (much like a child does). Not brushing and flossing their teeth on a regular basis and really not performing any (normal) chores on a regular basis. But not doing the chores isn't what made the person ill. It's a matter that the person is ill and for whatever reason does no take care of himself(or his home or his living space) in the way (normal) people do. But being different doesn't make them unworthy. They may almost seem helpless but they are not hopeless. I too have a very junked up and some may call it a filthy house, but some may judge me as a filthy person in both mind and spirit because of the state of the condition I (choose?) to live in. I am still trying to understand me, myself. Every new day is a new day. I have plans, plans, plans. The plans for a well person would find so easy to do are like giant mountains each day for me. Just to awake, get up and muster energy for another day and to get something done if it is only to check the mail, fix a bite to eat and summon enough energy to piddle around the house for another day. Big chores that I look forward to are going to town to buy groceries and going to the doctor(s) on checkup visits. Sometimes I still try to reason how did my mind ever manage to get so sick (I know I am much better now in spite of what some well-meaning critics report) I do manage to get a good clean bath, good clean shave and brush my teeth before going out to town. My advice to other's suffering from the dreaded bipolar disorder is to keep on trucking and go ahead and stay independant as long as you can. Please don't let other's set the agenda for you. Follow your on star. Contrary to what some others on this site are trying to say, I just know I will have bipolar disorder as long as I live. I just pray to God that I will be able to live out my days to the best of my ability. The mental health history records show that the condition of people with bipolar disorder tends to get more acute as they get older.

[Charly]

You can purchase vits at walmart etc. and get quality and best prices. I load up on vits each day and I can really tell an improvement in my overall feeling of well being when I take the following on a regular basis: 4 softgels spring valley fish oil(Natural Fish Oil Concentrate per gel=1,000 mg and EPA=180 mg and DHA=120 mg)at 250 gel bottle for $11.94. Most recommend a mega dose of 2,500mg EPA per day and 2,000 mg DHA day and also 200 mg of DHEA day and I take these also in addition to the 4 fish oil softgels. 3 tabs Rexall NOS for Nitric Oxide Synthesis(Contains L-arginine 3,000 mg per tab and 1,773 mg Alpha-Ketoglutarate per tab)at $13.96 for 120 tab bottle. 2 tabs MEGA-T green tea dietary supplement(each tab metabolic support blend contains 775 mcg per tab) at $9.92 per 90 tab bottle supply. Spring Valley 2,000 mg vit C per day. Bilberry Extract Rexall- 2,000 mg per day. Selenium 200 mcg at $3.58 per 100 tab bottle. Rexall Cinnamon 1,000 mg at 100 cps bottle at $4.96. Rexall Policosanol 20 mg per day $6.86 for 150 sofgel bottle. Spring Valley Potassium 99 mg per day only at $4.17 for 250 caplet bottle. Spring Valley(Natural Whole Herb) Cranberry Fruit 4 tab per day at 475 mg per tab.NOW DOCTORS say take 400 vit E d-alpha a day(I take 1,400 I.U. per day and plan to do so until the end of the age.)Spring Valley Odor Free Garlic 1,200 mg per tab 200 tab bottle for $4.94. Spring Valley Biotin 1,000 mcg per day 60 tab at $1.38 per bottle. Rexall(take 2 tab per day) Acetyl L-Carnitine(500MG) plus Alpha Lipoic Acid(200mg) 30 tab bottle for $7.96 and most tell you to take 600mg of Alpha Lipoic Acid. Spring Valley (Standard Extract) Grape Plus Seed 50 mg extract per capsule at one per day. $6.24 for 72 cap bottle. Spring Valley 800 mcg tab per day Folic Acid 250 tab bottle for $2.43. Spring Valley (organic Flax Oil) 3,000 mg per day 100 softgels at $4.48 per bottle. Rexall L-Glutamine 500 mg per day 50 tab bottle for $2.84. MOST EXPENSIVE OF THE LOT. Rexall Q-Sorb Super Potency Co Q-10 200 mg per day 50 softgel bottle is $26.75. Rexall Time Release B-3 (Niacin) 250 mg per dayCAUTION:Do not take more than 250 mg of time release niacin , except under supervision of a doctor. Spring Valley Natural Zinc 50 mg per day. Chromium 1,000 mg per day. I take in addition to these: one walmart equate complete multivitamin supplement. My Mental Health Consultant told me I had his permission to take S-A-M-E and St. John's Wort if I wanted to try them out. While the cost for vits is not cheep, I find that the bebefit I receive is well worth the price.

[Charly]

I forgot two other I take Spring Valley Calcium 1,200 mg per day 300 tab bottle for $5.97(this is good for bones). Rexall B-12 500 mcg micro-lozenges 200 lozenges bottle. :lol:

[BeHereNow]

I have had much contact with many people who are (we all agree are ill). One common thread of the condition is their not living a life with the same values as the rest of the world. If you meet someone who is ill like this, you will soon find that they neglect taking care of their body (much like a child does). Not brushing and flossing their teeth on a regular basis and really not performing any (normal) chores on a regular basis.

That's interesting. I've never heard about it before, but in retrospect, I was just like that also. I found it very difficult to keep my room or apartment clean, to do basic chores like vacuuming and dishes or flossing my teeth, etc. These days, I simply do the things because they need to be done, the way (I suppose) a normal person does them, and I actually can't even go to sleep now if I haven't brushed and flossed.

I also try to keep in mind Thich Nhat Hanh's advice that, while you are doing a chore, you should be careful not to be doing it to get it over with, but to do it for the sake of living life and enjoying it as an experience you can only have while alive.

[sing27]

[QUOTE=BeHereNow]Yes. When I was first diagnosed, I was still experiencing a common Bipoloar syndrome, which is that you are someone who is special and somehow given this gift, or a mixed blessing. So, I thought the doctors were trying to rob me of what God had given me.

It wasn't until after I did a lot of research on the issue that I realized I met almost every criterion for it.


Reply:
I composed a nice reply to this but somehow I lost it. Drat!! Anyway, I really appreciate your comments. We confronted my sister-in-law with the seriousness of her dysfunction, but she was full of excuses. She did manage to agree with us on one or two points, but the majority of her response was that we were blowing things out of proportion and that we just didn't understand the whole situation. Our reply was that while that may be true to some extent, the reality is that we know enough and have seen enough to know that she needs to get serious help. We told her that we will continue to assist her as long as she is willing to see a psychologist who will give her the help she needs and not just dispense drugs that are obviously not benefiting her to the degree that she needs.

You may have hit the mark with this comment: "She probably views the illness as a special friend by now and has become attached to and dependant upon it."

People have pretty much left her alone and stopped expecting anything of her. That seems to be the way that she prefers it.

[sing27]

I have had much contact with many people who are (we all agree are ill). One common thread of the condition is their not living a life with the same values as the rest of the world. If you meet someone who is ill like this, you will soon find that they neglect taking care of their body (much like a child does). Not brushing and flossing their teeth on a regular basis and really not performing any (normal) chores on a regular basis. But not doing the chores isn't what made the person ill. It's a matter that the person is ill and for whatever reason does no take care of himself(or his home or his living space) in the way (normal) people do. But being different doesn't make them unworthy. They may almost seem helpless but they are not hopeless. I too have a very junked up and some may call it a filthy house, but some may judge me as a filthy person in both mind and spirit because of the state of the condition I (choose?) to live in. I am still trying to understand me, myself. Every new day is a new day. I have plans, plans, plans. The plans for a well person would find so easy to do are like giant mountains each day for me. Just to awake, get up and muster energy for another day and to get something done if it is only to check the mail, fix a bite to eat and summon enough energy to piddle around the house for another day. Big chores that I look forward to are going to town to buy groceries and going to the doctor(s) on checkup visits. Sometimes I still try to reason how did my mind ever manage to get so sick (I know I am much better now in spite of what some well-meaning critics report) I do manage to get a good clean bath, good clean shave and brush my teeth before going out to town. My advice to other's suffering from the dreaded bipolar disorder is to keep on trucking and go ahead and stay independant as long as you can. Please don't let other's set the agenda for you. Follow your on star. Contrary to what some others on this site are trying to say, I just know I will have bipolar disorder as long as I live. I just pray to God that I will be able to live out my days to the best of my ability. The mental health history records show that the condition of people with bipolar disorder tends to get more acute as they get older.

Reply:
Charly, and I thought that I was a vitamin junkie.
:wink: One thing that I was wondering after reading through your lenghy list is why did you decide to purchase many of your vitamins separately rather than take them in a multi-vitamin formula? BTW, I'm responding to your posts in general here rather than addressing each one. How long did you say that you've been taking all these supplements? You must do a lot of reading regarding supplements as well. Have you ever looked at Dr. Mercola's Web site? He has a lot of good advice. Did you mention taking B6? Also, I heard that sublingual B12 is excellent for mental health, as is fish oil, of course, along with regular exercise. I do wish that I could have gotten my sister-in-law to take fish oil and other supplements. She doesn't seem to trust them, but give her a prescription and away she goes.

There were a few things that you said that I feel have given me insight into my sis-in-law's mental state. When you talked about mustering enough energy just to get through the day, and the plans that a well person would find easy to a bipolar person they would seem like a "giant mountain", I thought that that is exactly the way that she is. But, I, too can relate to this. Sometimes all that I can manage to do in a given day is clean the kitchen and cook a meal. For me, however, it has more to do with unexpected distractions, e.g. someone calls and needs help, I get caught up in a book that I've been reading, or I just dawdle away the day.

Thanks Charly.

[kendal]

I have a brother names Jeffrey who has bi-polar. It is a real illness,and it really does affect the persons whole life and their family. There appears to be a stronge genetic link like in the case of Patty Duke the actress. She seems to have inherited the disorder from her birth mother. My Mother suffered years of depression and so did her brother and sister,and they were different but still able to get by,and do things that had to be done. Jeffrey is not able to do things easily and when he does,he tends to be manic,and overly excited and nervous.
Jeffrey really wants to be well,but he doesn't like to stay on his meds,and he stops taking them sometimes. His blood pressure goes up,and he drinks are huge amount of coffee during the day,and he also likes to drink alcohol when he gets a chance.
Jeffrey can't keep a job very long,and people lose their patience with him very fast. He really wants to have a normal life like he feels others have around him.
In Jeff's case,he hears voices sometimes,and they scare him.
He doesn't have the control over his mind that he wishes to have.
It's very heartbreaking what he goes through. He loses his temper and people get mad at him when he does,but they don't think about bi-polar,they just don't like him because he acts mean at times. He cannot help his moods.
in a depressive state he shaves off all his eyebrows,and dresses and acts strange.
he tends to shave his head alot more often now that he's older. He's in his early 30's now,but has had problems all his life.
Jeff managed to have children with a woman who is mentally ill . She has a disorder that is called Scizophrenia,and she has to be on her meds at all times or she gets very dangerous. They broke up,and her family has the two children. Jeffrey doesn't get to see his kids much at all,but he did have children and he didn't think he ever would.
The girls appear normal.
why some people seem to be more prone to inheriting bipolar and others don't is very odd because Jeffrey is one of few family members who have it,but there are others in the family with it.
People really should try to understand people with bipolar better because they really do struggle and they have their own personal battles. they need love as much if not more than most of us do. They really do try to cope and they want to be able to enjoy life like normal people and experience things like we all do.
It's not their fault they have bipolar.Jeffrey has good days too,and those are times when the family rejoices with him and share in his happiness. We all love those times with Jeffrey!

[Hail Mary]

Jade, not sure if this has been mentioned, but some clinical tests have shown that treatment with anti-depressant can lead to rapid-cycling of bi-polar individuals later in life (not a pleasant experience). I'm not trying to scare you, but please be aware of this and ask your doctor about this. Webmd has some good info on bi-polar at http://www.webmd.com/diseases_and_conditions/bipolar_disorder.htm and they mention its somewhat controversial at this time, but I think its better to know everything and decide for yourself.

I'm suprised you weren't given lithium or some mood stabilizing drugs.

[kendal]

I think I had a boyfriend with bipolar. How are you suppose to treat someone with bipolar? I know my brother has it,but we don't know what to do sometimes.
My boyfriend didn't tell me he had it until later when I already had strong feelings for him,and I didn't know if I should believe it or not? It was probably denial,right?
How can you have a relationship with someone who is bipolar?
I loved him very much despite his up's and downs.

[Hail Mary]

I think I had a boyfriend with bipolar. How are you suppose to treat someone with bipolar? I know my brother has it,but we don't know what to do sometimes.
My boyfriend didn't tell me he had it until later when I already had strong feelings for him,and I didn't know if I should believe it or not? It was probably denial,right?
How can you have a relationship with someone who is bipolar?
I loved him very much despite his up's and downs.

Kendal, everyone is bipolar to some degree, but when the degree of bipolar-ishness(is that a word?) gets over 2 standard deviations from 'the norm' it gets pathologized. So, definitely ask your boyfriend to see a Dr, unfortunately one of the symptoms (if you can call it that) is that bipolars will deny they have a problem. (But don't we all?)

Also, not sure if this is good advice, but Van Gogh was probably bipolar, so you want to avoid asking him to cut off his ear to prove his love, he may do it. :smile:

But seriously, one piece of advice about a relationship with him, its going to be hard not to get really angry at him for the weird things he does when he's either manic or severely depressed. Its better in the long run if you show him love and kindness, that way he will be more open to your advice to seek medical help when he realizes there's something dreadfully wrong here. (Definitely ask him to read the webmd articles http://www.webmd.com/diseases_and_conditions/bipolar_disorder.htm.

[dizzle]

NOW you tell her about the ear thing.....

[Hail Mary]

NOW you tell her about the ear thing.....

Inappropriate! This is a very s-ear-ious subject!

:lol:

[dizzle]

To be fair I make OCD (which I have) jokes all the time.

Honey did you check to make sure the garage door is closed?

Yes dear.

Did you check it a hundred times though?

[Hail Mary]

To be fair I make OCD (which I have) jokes all the time.

Honey did you check to make sure the garage door is closed?

Yes dear.

Did you check it a hundred times though?

OCD - obsessive compulsive disorder? I understand that these things can become very serious problems, but did you ever wonder about psychiatry becoming a new type of religion? They psychiatrists are the new priests that hand out treatments (pennance) and we have to adhere to the scheduled treatements religiously, or we go whacko (a sort of hell on earth)...

[sing27]

Ugh, don't get me started on psychiatrists, i.e. automatic pill dispensers. Does my cynicism show? To be fair my experience with psychiatrists is second-hand. I have a few friends and family members who have seen them. Some were able to make progress but some weren't. The difference was that the patient was very pro-active in his her treatment. Therefore, IMO, the psychiatrist is only a small part of the solution and often the patient must see another specialist, e.g. a neurologist or internist, in order to get a complete diagnosis.

[Adam]

Ugh, don't get me started on psychiatrists, i.e. automatic pill dispensers. Does my cynicism show? To be fair my experience with psychiatrists is second-hand. I have a few friends and family members who have seen them. Some were able to make progress but some weren't. The difference was that the patient was very pro-active in his her treatment. Therefore, IMO, the psychiatrist is only a small part of the solution and often the patient must see another specialist, e.g. a neurologist or internist, in order to get a complete diagnosis.
Dear sing27,
Using "you" metaphorically like "one", not aimed at *you*--
If you have had sustained periods of highs alternating with sustained periods of lows, if when you are manic you talk lots and real fast, if you take stairs two at a time, you've got bipolar. Since it is very hereditary, if you have relatives with bipolar or unipolar depression or some who committed suicide, that confirms the bipolar diagnosis. Then you take the meds now available, and only if none work for you is the diagnosis contradicted. Don't take lithium for too many years, it damages the parathyroid and other glands. Tegretol requires monitoring for liver damage. There are about six others that are safer for long-term use, but most are expensive.
Problems occur when people stop taking their meds, although you may need to cease some prescriptions if you drop from a manic to normal or depressed.
Adam

[kendal]

Kendal, everyone is bipolar to some degree, but when the degree of bipolar-ishness(is that a word?) gets over 2 standard deviations from 'the norm' it gets pathologized. So, definitely ask your boyfriend to see a Dr, unfortunately one of the symptoms (if you can call it that) is that bipolars will deny they have a problem. (But don't we all?)

Also, not sure if this is good advice, but Van Gogh was probably bipolar, so you want to avoid asking him to cut off his ear to prove his love, he may do it. :smile:

But seriously, one piece of advice about a relationship with him, its going to be hard not to get really angry at him for the weird things he does when he's either manic or severely depressed. Its better in the long run if you show him love and kindness, that way he will be more open to your advice to seek medical help when he realizes there's something dreadfully wrong here. (Definitely ask him to read the webmd articles http://www.webmd.com/diseases_and_conditions/bipolar_disorder.htm.

Thanks for your advise!
I will do my best.:wink:

[sing27]

Dear sing27,
Using "you" metaphorically like "one", not aimed at *you*--
If you have had sustained periods of highs alternating with sustained periods of lows, if when you are manic you talk lots and real fast, if you take stairs two at a time, you've got bipolar. Since it is very hereditary, if you have relatives with bipolar or unipolar depression or some who committed suicide, that confirms the bipolar diagnosis. Then you take the meds now available, and only if none work for you is the diagnosis contradicted. Don't take lithium for too many years, it damages the parathyroid and other glands. Tegretol requires monitoring for liver damage. There are about six others that are safer for long-term use, but most are expensive.
Problems occur when people stop taking their meds, although you may need to cease some prescriptions if you drop from a manic to normal or depressed.
Adam

Dear Adam,
I'm not sure how to understand your comments. Do I assume that you are speaking from experience and are offering me advice? I do have a relative that has been diagnosed with bipolar depression but she believes that her case is mild. Those who know her aren't so sure about that. She changes meds quite often and is prone to not fill her prescriptions regularly. We've seen some improvement in her attitude lately, however. It's difficult to know how to help.

Thanks for your comments,
Sing 27

[kendemyer]

Dear Jade,

There has been 5 articles in the psychiatric peer reviewed literature about a amazing product featured on the Discovery Chanel that has a extremely high success rate treating bipolar disorder.

I suggest reading these resources:

www.truehope.com

http://www.healthyplace.com/communities/bipolar/treatment/alternative/nutritional_supplements.asp

Sincerely,

Ken DeMyer

[stormrunner]

I have recently been diagnosed with Bi-polar disorder and find myself struggling with it. So I'd like to pose a couple of questions. First of all, are there other bipolars here? Second, of those who are, what do you find as most helpful in coping with it (What specific coping strategies work the best for you)?
I am 62 and was diagnosed about 7 years ago as bi-polar after an exceptional manic episode. I have never found any drug that I could tolerate except Wellbutrin but even though I tolerated it, it is expensive and I felt it didn't really help.

My family and friends would be a welcome help, but they avoid me as I avoid them as I don't want to inflict my depression on them. It becomes a spiral.

But I do find that smoking marijuana is a relief - it should be legally allowed.

[Jade]

Update: I'm currently doing well. And I'm running an experiement. I get the feeling that my problem was temporary. Plus the meds leave me feeling numbed out and messes with my memory (it was bad enough to start with). So anyways I'm out to prove my doctor (:tongue:) wrong.

[kendal]

Bipolar is a real illness,but sometimes it's not easy finding the right medication
for each person and their metabolism and body type.

[SuzieQue]

I find bouncing around religous ideas impulsively, or repeatedly to the same audience is an aggravating factor for bipolar disorder. The total frustration gets to me. Trying to reconcile my beliefs to others' about Christianity also leads to great deal of frustration. I just think differently and perhaps that is part of the disorder itself. Please take my postings as such.
And say a prayer if you think of it. :smile:

[Yakkity Yak]

Dear Jade,

There has been 5 articles in the psychiatric peer reviewed literature about a amazing product featured on the Discovery Chanel that has a extremely high success rate treating bipolar disorder.

I suggest reading these resources:

www.truehope.com

http://www.healthyplace.com/communities/bipolar/treatment/alternative/nutritional_supplements.asp

Sincerely,

Ken DeMyer

Ken,

Your post illustrates your total ignorance of Bi-Polar illiness. Get real? Vitamins?

[Bapt38954]

The number of vits I have been taking every day for the past year and a half seem to have really helped in a big break-through in the mgt of my diagnosed Bi-Polar disorder of over 20-year-duration. I do not need depakote or most the other standard meds that had been prescribed for my Bi-Polar condition, that is, up until about 6 months ago. Since that time, I only seem to only need to take one very low-dose 2-25MG comb perphen/amit tab at bedtime in order to get a good night of quality sleep. I now do not go through the day feeling all doped up, like I did under all the standard medication. I feel a little hypo-maniac some of the time (which is not a bad thing at all), so I must be very alert and watch to keep myself from swinging into another full-blown maniac episode like I did have one time several years ago (I keep a month-supply of Depakote on hand according to my doctor's direction to start back taking should I sense myself swinging into another full-blown mania attack). I did not break the law or harm anyone when I had that one-time episode. In fact, I was the one assaulted and that assault was what led to my week-long hospital stay for mainc-depression.

[Bapt38954]

Ken,

Your post illustrates your total ignorance of Bi-Polar illiness. Get real? Vitamins?
vits, yes, vits

[Jade]

Well it's been 11 months now since my last episode. And 3 months off medication. Maybe the doctor was wrong. :nsm:

[SuzieQue]

Well it's been 11 months now since my last episode. And 3 months off medication. Maybe the doctor was wrong. :nsm:
I've decided to seek help out of state for bipolar disorder and taking a break from traditional meds which seem to hold me back quite a bit and cause a lot of weight gain. I've never hurt anyone during an episode, I did bounce some checks as a result of the disorder but was able to cover them within a couple of weeks.
There are a couple of events in my life that aggravate this condition and therefore my therapy is stalled because the major issues I deal with cause me to be hospitalized. I find it interesting to note that during five years when I was seeking God with all my heart, I didn't require medication. I worked full time and raised my children only dealing with mild depression. It would be nice to get there again BUT I have major questions about spirituality.

[kendemyer]

A few things:

1. In the past I was mistakenly given the diagnosis of bipolar (I found out what it was and was cured of it and that is another story). I did a lot of research on brain disorders though.

2. I highly recommend reading this article from a Harvard researcher regarding bipolar:

"Do Vitamins or Minerals (apart from lithium) have mood stabizing effects by Dr. Charles Popper, Journal of Clinical Pschiatry 62:933-935

3. There is a product from Canada that has been getting spectacular results for bipolar patients and it was featured on the Discovery Channel and in 5 psychiatric journals. People have been getting such good results that a great deal of them have been discontinueing their medication or some have been halving their medications.

Here it is:

http://www.truehope.com

[Keith Rex]

I heard that Iceland has the highest consumption of fish in the world and the lowest bi-polar. This relationship holds world wide. It seems that fish oil is the factor.

[Jade]

I heard that Iceland has the highest consumption of fish in the world and the lowest bi-polar. This relationship holds world wide. It seems that fish oil is the factor.

You might just have something there. I don't know how well it works with severe symptoms (I didn't take or know about fish oil when my symptoms were the worst), but when I have mild to moderate symptom, Fish oil seems to be a big help.

[Jade]

Well it's been 11 months now since my last episode. And 3 months off medication. Maybe the doctor was wrong. :nsm:

Update:
I've now been off meds for a total of 10 months. In August and September, my moods became unstable again. This time irratically so. Fortunately none of the episodes would last longer than 2-3 days. And the lowest lows didn't last longer than a few hours. So I guess I can no longer deny I have bipolar disorder. It's just a matter of time as to when it will rear it's ugly head. I have started taking a supplement that contains Fish, Flaxseed, Borage, and Safflower oils. These provide Omega 3, 6, & 9 fatty acids. Among other things, they help improve mood. I can see a difference already. I still have mood soars and dips, but they are much milder.

[Jade]

And I just blew that update out of the water. :no: :sigh:

I have just recovered from a severe depressive episode.

[Sparko]

:hug:

[Bapt38954]

The number of vits I have been taking every day for the past year and a half seem to have really helped in a big break-through in the mgt of my diagnosed Bi-Polar disorder of over 20-year-duration. I do not need depakote or most the other standard meds that had been prescribed for my Bi-Polar condition, that is, up until about 6 months ago. Since that time, I only seem to only need to take one very low-dose 2-25MG comb perphen/amit tab at bedtime in order to get a good night of quality sleep. I now do not go through the day feeling all doped up, like I did under all the standard medication. I feel a little hypo-maniac some of the time (which is not a bad thing at all), so I must be very alert and watch to keep myself from swinging into another full-blown maniac episode like I did have one time several years ago (I keep a month-supply of Depakote on hand according to my doctor's direction to start back taking should I sense myself swinging into another full-blown mania attack). I did not break the law or harm anyone when I had that one-time episode. In fact, I was the one assaulted and that assault was what led to my week-long hospital stay for mainc-depression.
PTL!!! IT'S ALL STILL WORKING FOR ME YA'LL.

[xine]

I have recently been diagnosed with Bi-polar disorder and find myself struggling with it. So I'd like to pose a couple of questions. First of all, are there other bipolars here? Second, of those who are, what do you find as most helpful in coping with it (What specific coping strategies work the best for you)?

yes dxed bp along with many other things.
my advice: stop emulating people like curt colbain...

[Solly]

Thanks for this thread Jade. I was diagnosed as manic-depressive in my twenties, though not needing to be medicated. I used to go up and up, thinking of all the great things I would do, and then come crashing down, and fantasise about death and dying. Death played a part in it, in that part of the crash came from realising that whatever I did, death would cut it short. It made for a miserable 8 years, and the only things that kept me going was listening to Rush, wallowing in Mahler's symphonies, and Star Trek novels. It'd be nice to say Jesus sorted it all, but I came out of it some years before I was converted. I think mine was mainly bad thinking, linked to a tendency to depression that runs in our family - my mother was hospitalised twice, and my sister had post-natal.
:blush: I even tried drowning my sorrows in alcohol once - cos that's what you are supposed to do, eh? - and just got sick, since I didn't normally drink.
I'm glad you've got each other, and the understanding that comes from mutual suffering. Take the advice above, won't you. American diets are so unhealthy, get onto fresh fruit and vegetables, avoid red meat, sugars etc.

Well. i never realised that when I wrote this, 18 months later I would crash back into a depression, and end up being re-diagnosed. In fact it seems I have been suffering all my life, and explains a lot of what has happened to me. I had meds this time, for the first time. Serotonin replacement. i did that for three months, but I came off them, since I got to the point where I didn't care about much, didn't read or go to church, or want to talk to people, as they suppressed the upward cycle as well as the downward. i am biding my time now.

It was stress that set it off this time I think, leaving the old church and ministry, having a 4th child, problems at work. No visoins etc, for which I am thankful. but it is sad to discover that I intuitively avoided jobs that might cause stress all these years, and that means I am unlikely to get a position that pays a decent wage. In days gone by I used to just walk out of jobs.

[Jade]

Well. i never realised that when I wrote this, 18 months later I would crash back into a depression, and end up being re-diagnosed. In fact it seems I have been suffering all my life, and explains a lot of what has happened to me. I had meds this time, for the first time. Serotonin replacement. i did that for three months, but I came off them, since I got to the point where I didn't care about much, didn't read or go to church, or want to talk to people, as they suppressed the upward cycle as well as the downward. i am biding my time now.

It was stress that set it off this time I think, leaving the old church and ministry, having a 4th child, problems at work. No visoins etc, for which I am thankful. but it is sad to discover that I intuitively avoided jobs that might cause stress all these years, and that means I am unlikely to get a position that pays a decent wage. In days gone by I used to just walk out of jobs.

I'm sorry to hear you've been struggling. :pray: for you.

There are certain deceptions that come with this illness: I've outgrown bipolar (or question their diagnosis) or I don't need my meds or (During an upswing) I've never felt better--euphoria that masks hypomania/mania. These have taken my stability away more than once. For the moment I have convinced myself that my best hope for stability is staying on my medication, seeing my Psychiatrist regularly, and avoiding stressors where possible.

What I have learned about medications:
Finding the right medication combination takes a little time. It's rarely the first one you try. Lamictal or Lithium are a good place to start. These are mood stablizers. Many people with Bipolar cannot take anti-depressants--it brings on a episode or causes them to go through episodes really quickly. All meds have the potiential for side effects. If a side effect is too bothersome to deal with let you doctor know, perhaps something else will work better for you.

[Timothy Leary]

yes dxed bp along with many other things.
my advice: stop emulating people like curt colbain...

Kurt Cobain was an amazing man. He may have had a lot of mess-ups, but he had an incredible mind. Have you ever heard his song, Hurt, which was later covered by Johnny Cash?

[Timothy Leary]

Jade, I apologize if you've already posted it already, but what types of things are you currently doing to help out with Bi-Polar disorder?

[Thespia]

I would be very wary of a diagnosis by some psychiatrists who are in the habit of giving a hurting person a prescription after about 15 minutes of consultation. This is WAY too common in the mental health world. I have a friend who has been diagnosed with several types of illnesses by different sources. Of course, mental health is a very controversial and complex field. If you can, find a Christian psychiatrist who has a reputation for spending a LOT of time diagnosing on the first visit. I've heard of some who will take 2 or 3 hours the first time. If you are going on meds for this that change your mental state, shouldn't it be worth it to the doctor to take as much time as you deserve? Also...get COUNSELING for problems, don't just take meds and expect that it will fix everything. Our thinking is very important here...and we need coaching.

Read all you can, learn things, but realize that there are many different theories and opinions out there...and also different levels of severity with disorders. Good luck to everyone who has problems with this...it takes a lot of work and prayer and patience with yourself. But God can heal...

[3kixintehead]

Honestly I would not take medicine from any psychiatrist. If a psychologist works with you thats fine, but that takes a considerable amount of time on their part, so they get to know you much better. Medicine that is supposed to heal your mind is simply not adequate IMO. I don't have a degree or anything, but all I've ever seen psychiatrists do is mess people up further.

[Thespia]

Honestly I would not take medicine from any psychiatrist. If a psychologist works with you thats fine, but that takes a considerable amount of time on their part, so they get to know you much better. Medicine that is supposed to heal your mind is simply not adequate IMO. I don't have a degree or anything, but all I've ever seen psychiatrists do is mess people up further.


The best way that medicine can work is to make the person feel more normal, then counseling is more effective (that is the theory anyway). If a person can only see darkness and depression, or is so tense and worried that they can't think clearly, medcine can help them relax and see things more normally. Then counseling can help the person to make needed changes in their life. I would never think medicine could just "heal their mind"...unless they were a seriously chemically unbalanced person who needed hospitalization.

We are not just a body, or just a mind. We are both, while on this earth. Sometimes both need care at the same time...and sometimes we must soothe our body before our mind can make sense of it all. I would NEVER say just to take medicine and skip the counseling. Counseling is such an important thing for people who are hurting, and I am a big fan. :smile:

[Jade]

Kurt Cobain was an amazing man. He may have had a lot of mess-ups, but he had an incredible mind. Have you ever heard his song, Hurt, which was later covered by Johnny Cash?

Thought I posted to this already--the board must have burped or something.

I have heard both the original and the cover and I like both versions. :smile:

Jade, I apologize if you've already posted it already, but what types of things are you currently doing to help out with Bi-Polar disorder?

The first line of defense in the fight against Bi-Polar is medicine. Bipolar messes with your thinking as well as with your emotions: better to get them straightened out first then fix any other problems that might exist. A mood stablizer such as Lithium or Lamictal is a good place to start. Then if symptoms still persist, an anti-depressant such as Welbutrin or an antipsychotic such as Risperdal can be added. It's all about finding the right combination for you, because what works for one person may not work for the next. Untreated BiPolar can really mess up one's life, relationships, and finances.

Regular doctor vists help catch episodes early enough to head them off. And if you have a bad episode, a good therapist can help you pick up the pieces of your life. Together this is your team, working together to provide the best care possible. If one or both is not doing their job, or if you feel as those you're not being treated well, by all means find one that will.

After careful observation, you can start detecting your triggers--things that can set off an episode such as lack of sleep, divorce, or moving. Eating healthy, regular exercize, adequate sleep, avoiding stressors are some things you can do to help keep you stable. If you foresee an unavoidable stressor in the near future, let your doctor know so you can both be on alert for a worsening of symptoms which might be an indicator of an impending episode.

Also a support group can provide immeasurable information and help.

If you have other questions or if I've confused you, feel free to ask and I will try to help.

[RonPrice]

MY BI-POLAR DISORDER--A 60 YEAR STORY IN CONTEXT: 1947-2007


My experience both long and short term with manic-depression, or bi-polar illness as it has come to be called in recent years, and with other maladies; as well as my personal circumstances at home in relation to my wife’s illness in recent years should provide mental health consumers, as they are often called these days, with an adequate information base to evaluate to some extent their own situation, make relevant comparisons and contrasts to their own predicament whatever it may be and thereby gain some helpful knowledge or understandings which may be of use to them in personal terms. There are still many who do not feel comfortable seeking medical support and this account may help such people obtain appropriate treatment and, as a result, dramatically improve their quality of life. I think, too, that this essay is part of my own small part in reducing the damaging stigma associated with bi-polar disorder.
:eek:
The wider context of my experience which I outline here is intended to place my bi-polar disorder in context and should provide others with what I hope is a helpful perspective on their own condition and situation. This essay of more than 5000 words and more than six A-4 pages is primarily written for internet sites on mental health, especially as manifested in depression and the bi-polar disorder. I also write this essay, this reflection, for my own satisfaction, to put into words something that has influenced my life for over half a century. Originally written in 2003, this piece of writing has been revised many times after my own introspections and the feedback from various internet respondents

1. Manic-Depression: Preamble

After half a dozen episodes, varying in length from several days to several months, and many experiences on the fringe of normality, the fringe of manic-depressive symptoms, and the heart of manic-depression between 1946 and 1980, I was treated with lithium carbonate in Launceston by a psychiatrist and officially diagnosed as manic-depressive. My history to that point had been far from smooth and linear, but periodically bisected, polarized and traumatized.

In some ways the inclusion of the names of those doctors who treated me over the years would personalize this account, but names are not that important and to include them here in this narrative causes confidentiality problems to some readers and at some websites--and so I leave names out. Those whose names I could mention would not be troubled by their inclusion here. I certainly appreciate the clinical work of several of the psychiatrists as well as several of the individuals I have known personally over the years. Their professional work and personal assistance has been invaluable and I want readers to recognize the primacy I give to the work of these specialized doctors and friends for their help and assistance, their saving me from what in any previous age and time period would have been a horrific, virtually end-of-normal-life experience.

I sojourned in a public and private world, from time to time, no less strange to me than if I had been among an exotic jungle tribe in Africa. It is the duty of all anthropologists to report on their exotic travels and field trips, whether to the Earth’s antipodes or to equally remote recesses of human experience, this is my accounting. I came, insensibly over several decades, to associate the extremes of my bi-polar disorder with the role of shamans among tribal, third world, animistic communities, people who relate their myths and their meanings my means of emotionally laden ecstatic visions. On the personal level, I discovered in myself unexpected patience, humility and hope. I learned to treat life as the most precious of gifts, infinitely vulnerable and precarious, to be infinitely prized and cherished. I had not become a saint, though; I still suffered; I was still impatient; I did not always appreciate life; I still got depressed. I had journeyed with my soul into an underworld and come back. It was a spiritual drama—on a psycho-neurological, a psycho-pharmacological, a schizo-affective level. I could narrate this drama in religious terms and describe it as a purgatorial dark night.

Stories in life are chaotic in the absence of narrative order. And so I tell my story here as briefly as possible to help establish, for me, a sense of order. I tell of these events, as a storyteller, my experience of life, to some extent without sequence or discernible causality. Life has an element of mystery no matter how much knowledge and understanding we bring to the problem. I claim that chaos narratives are incompatible with writing or with telling. Those who are truly living a chaos cannot tell of it in words except in the most bizarre fashion. The chaos that I describe in the distant past is told here in a story-form. I now reflect on that experience retrospectively. Lived chaos makes reflection, and consequently story-telling, impossible when one is in the midst of the experience. Telling, and even more so writing, it seems, is a way of taking control, creating order, thus keeping that once experienced chaos at bay.

2. Enter: Lithium

Lithium is, arguably, the central pivot in this whole story. I have been on lithium now for twenty-seven years, about half of the total time I have experienced this significantly/partially genetic disorder. My mood swings, now in 2007, take place, for the most part, late in the evening and after midnight with the death wish still part of the experience, but none of the intensity that my mood swings had for many years, at least until 2001 when fluvoxamine was added to my medication package. The symptoms that affect my daily working capacity are fatigue and psychological weariness, sometimes after a night of light sleeping, tossing and turning and/or sometimes late at night after many hours of intellectual activity. Dryness of the mouth and short term memory loss also seem to affect my daily life as a result of (a) lithium treatment and (b), in the case of memory loss, perhaps due to the eight ECT treatments I had as far back as the late 1960s. My current psychiatrist who specializes in treating people with bi-polar disorder, has been providing his professional advice for the last five years, after a series of psychiatrists I have had going back to 1968.3

It seemed appropriate to outline this detailed statement for several purposes since the issue of the nature of my problem and what I have called manic-depression/bi-polar disorder is a complex one, varies from person to person and has been of concern over the sixty years that I have had to deal with its symptoms in my personal and working life-as have others involved with me. It is difficult to characterize my condition and it is for this reason that I have written what some may find to be a somewhat long statement for both my satisfaction and use by others. I hope the account below, in both long and short term contexts, will explain adequately my reasons for not wanting to work in any employment position or participate in any demanding social context. This account may also provide those interested with some useful information for dealing with their particular problems.

3. Manic-Depression: Long-term 1947-2001

There seems to be a process, one of immense variability, that I have experienced on a daily basis for some 60 years. The details, the symptoms, the behaviour, varies from year to year, with the decades, with the days. I cross from some normal behavioural constellation to an abnormal, intense one. The abnormal extreme position varies, as I say, from year to year in content, texture, tone and intensity. In 1946 it was characterized by uncontrollable early childhood behaviour. My mother had to deal with these aberrations. I think the diagnosis of bi-polarism at that early stage of my life is a remote possibility given a statistical average of 1% of manic-depressives having the disorder in childhood. Looking back to my childhood I did have some behavioural abnormalities, but their association with bi-polarism is, I think, unlikely in retrospect.

At the moment my bi-polarism is characterized by a mild tedium vitae attitude and behaviour as I have come to call it--late at night. Due to the above "process" over the last sixty years, due to the part of the process which occurs in varying degrees in various accentuated forms, it has often been difficult to define just where I was at any one time along that 'normal-abnormal' continuum. This was true at both the depressive end and the hypomanic end of the spectrum. It is difficult, therefore, to actually name the number of times when I have had major manic-depressive episodes, perhaps as many as eight, certainly as few as four, in my whole life, from the first episode--which was probably not an episode--in 1946 to the last brief episode in 1990 when I went off my lithium for between one and three months. Defining an episode is not easy for me to do; indeed, the concept of episode is only useful in some respects. In other ways it over-simplifies a complex set of behaviours and has value when trying to describe the experience in writing.

Since 1990 I have generally had little difficulty knowing where I was in this process, this swing of mood and feelings. The great intensities had gone by 1990. Total acceptance of the necessity of taking lithium was a critical variable in this process and it took a decade to achieve(1980-1990). At the hypomanic end of the continuum over the years there were experiences like the following: violent emotional instability and oscillation, abrupt changes and a sudden change in a large number of intellectual assumptions, elation, high energy. Mental balance, a psychological coherence between intellect and emotion and a rational reaction to the outside world all seemed to blow away, over a few hours to a few days, as I was plunged in a sea of what could be variously described as: emotional heat, intense awareness, sensitivity, sleeplessness, voluble talking, racing mental activity, fear, excessive and clearly irrational paranoia--and in 1968 virtually total incoherence at times--at one end of the spectrum; or intense depression, melancholia, an inner sense of despair and a desire to commit suicide4 at the other end. The latter I experienced from 1963 to 1965, off and on; the former from 1964 to 1990, on several occasions.

The longest depression I had was in 1963 and 1964 with perhaps two six month periods from June to November and July to December, respectively. The longest episode of hypomania was from June to November 1968. This episode was also given the name of schizo-affective disorder with the adjective mild placed at the front of the term. The episodes of hypomania in 1978, 1979, 1980 and 1990 were treated quickly with medication, although the 1978 episode, beginning in January, seemed to last for at least three or four months and had a mostly depressive component. It was treated with stelazine and the side effects were horrific. I wanted to get under the bedclothes every night after getting home from work due to paranoia and depressive symptoms. Only the 1980 episode required hospitalization in this case for one month.

I had some experience of this variously characterized illness in childhood as far back as about 1947 at the age of 2 and then onward through early, middle and late childhood into the puberty cusp of 12 or 13 I manifested symptoms which, in retrospect, seem to me examples of a lack of control of my emotions, a far too intense activity threshold and activity with what could be called mild bi-polar symptoms. It was not until much later in life, though, that I began to see these behavioural aberrations in childhood, at puberty and during adolescence as possibly having a link with my future mental illness. It was not until I was 19 in 1963 that any characteristics of this illness became quite clearly apparent in my day-to-day life. They did not receive the required medical attention and the diagnosis of schizo-affective disorder, bi-polarism and/or depression did not take place—medically. I was just given lots of advice from religious to common-sensical varying from diet to exercise. And after several months or several years the emotional aberrations disappeared, at least for a time.

My episodes over the years seemed to exhibit quite separate and distinct tendencies and patterns; hypomania was always characterized by elation and depression was always characterized by varying degrees of very low moods. In the 1978 episode, elation and depression followed each other alternatively within a two to three month period. Clearly, in the episodes in the late '70s, fear, paranoia and the extremes of depression seemed to be much less than those of the 1960s.

This account above has none of the fine detail that I could include like: (a) mental and mostly auditory hallucinations, (b) specific fears and paranoias, (c) electroconvulsive therapy, (d) psychiatric analysis and diagnosis, (e) the many years of dealing with suicidal thoughts and the death wish, (f) experiences in and out of half a dozen hospitals, unnumbered doctors’ clinics and the advice from more people than I care to think of, (g) adjusting to medications that varied from ones which put me to sleep to ones which made me high; (h) the affects of these swings on my employment, my relationships and my attitude to life; and (i) the periods in my life when the manifestations of the disorder were few and far between. Many of the situations, looking back, were humorous and the contexts absurd. And there was much else but, as I indicate, I hesitate to go into more detail. My aim here is to make a short, clinical statement, to put the facts on paper. Perhaps later I will go into the kind of detail some readers have already asked for. And so--I want to make this statement as short as possible but as detailed as I can to give a longitudinal perspective.

There are a variety of manic-depressive profiles, different typicalities, from person to person. It is bipolar because both ends of the spectrum, the moods, were experienced over the period 1947 to 2007, 60 years. Thanks to lithium most of the extremes were treated at the age of 35 in 1980. It took another ten years, until 1990 as I say above, for me to fully accept the lithium treatment. From time to time in the 1980s I tried to live without the lithium, to ‘go it alone’, as they say colloquially. Such, in as brief a way as possible, is the summary of my experience over the years. I have written more extensively of this in my autobiography which is readily available on the internet if anyone is interested. I would like, now, to focus on my more recent experience of the last decade and a half, 1991-2007, and especially the last half dozen years, 2001-2007. By 1991 I had no problems with lithium compliance, a problem I had in the first decade of lithium treatment.

4. Manic-Depression: Short-term 1991-2007

In the eight years 1991 to 1999 I finished my life of full-time employment, began my obsession with writing and experienced, at last after a decade a full-acceptance of my lithium treatment. In 2001, after two years of early retirement, my supervising psychiatrist in Tasmania suggested I go onto fluvoxamine in addition to the lithium treatment. Fluvoxamine is an anti-depressant. The fluvoxamine removed the blacknesses I had continued to experience at night, from late in the evening until early morning when I was awake or partially awake. The death-wish has always been associated with these blacknesses. With the fluvoxamine, gradually the blacknesses, the nightly depressions, disappeared or virtually so with only residues of a lower mood remained. The death wish remained as did sleeping problems, but in a much milder form. Like so many things in life, the death wish and mood swings have varying degrees of intensity and coping is the key question—and one not easily described and/or answered.

Frequent urination, periodic nausea and memory problems related, in part and perhaps, to the shock treatments I had back in the 1960s, were new problems by the year 2001. But the dark and debilitating feelings, I had experienced for so many years, were at last removed, if not totally at least virtually. After sixty years of bi-polar disorder and/or manifestations of bi-polar disorder in varying degrees of intensity, with periodic totally-debilitating episodes, most of the worst symptoms seem at last, at least in the last six years, to have been treated and removed. The anger seemed, at last, to have disappeared, little by little, year after year, the anger episodes had finally gone by the time I was in my early sixties. Irritability, it seems to me looking back over nearly 45 years of periodic outbursts of anger or what some call ‘intermittent explosive disorder,’ triggered my anger. Irritability in people who have bipolar disorder is a biologically driven symptom of hypomania or mania. The sexual urges still remained.

In April 2007 I switched from lithium to sodium valproate as my main medication due to the creatinin levels in my blood which had been too high for too long—for about a year. These creatinin levels were indicators that readers of this document can read about in the bi-polar literature to see just how the kidneys are affected. This kidney difficulty could have led to serious health problems had I not gone on to the new medication. As I write this revision of my story I have been on the sodium valproate for one month without serious or even minor problems.

5. Other Physical Difficulties:

Five years ago in 2002 I was diagnosed with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease(COPD) or emphysema which gives me a shortage of breath when I exert myself even mildly. Many millions of people have died from this illness in the last several decades; there are various statistics. My form of COPD is not a serious one. It probably originated in my smoking on average one package of cigarettes every day from the age of 20 to 50. I did suffer from a mild RSI which I have since treated with exercise, thus lessening the effects. These two conditions exacerbated the remaining bi-polar symptoms by making it difficult to engage in an activity for more than short periods of time. The memory problem also contributes, as you can appreciate, to many practical problems in day-to-day life. I mention these things because, although my bi-polar disorder is largely treated, there is a constellation of physical and psychological difficulties remaining. I do not want to emphasize these problems, though, because such descriptions detract from the central theme of this account. Their relevance is indirect.

For the most part in community life I rarely talk about my bi-polar disorder and most people who know me have no idea of my medical history or the difficulties I have lived under physically. I have for many years regarded these difficulties as part of my own spiritual battles that I must face. And they are difficulties that have largely slipped into a low gear in the last several years and do not trouble me significantly. I should mention that a spiritual attitude which has been part of my belief system since the 1950s has helped me more than I can appreciate. This is especially true of the attitude to tests and difficulties in life which the founder of my religion says are often "like fire and vengeance but inwardly light and mercy."

In the last decade or two there has developed in psychiatry what has been variously called a Recovery Model for treatment and care. This model puts the onus on the person with the disorder to work out what is his or her best way to cope, to survive, in society given the conditions of their illness. Such an individual must work out the techniques and strategies for day-to-day living. With each individual the disorder is idiosyncratic; individual consumers of mental health services must work out what is best for them in terms of these services and in terms of what activities are appropriate for them within their coping capacity in life’s day-to-day spectrum with help from specialists as they think necessary. this, too, is a complex question but I don’t want to dwell on it here unduly. It is my hope that my story may help others work out their own particular regimen of treatment programs and daily coping tools.

6. My Wife’s Illness:

My wife Christine, now 60 years of age, also has not been well for many years--since we moved from Tasmania north of Capricorn in Australia’s Northern Territory in 1982 some 25 years ago. Although she, too, has a long history of different kinds of problems which I won’t go into here, it is the more recent ones that I mention below and that affect our life-style in more ways than one. The doctors do not know what the cause or causes of her physical problems is/are, but they are problems that have made life difficult for her and our life together. Her symptoms have included: dizziness, nausea, back-ear-and-eye ache, headache, among some two dozen or more maladies that I have put down on paper to try and monitor on a daily basis and try and find some pattern. Sometimes, with the aid of steroids or some new drug, or some alternative medical treatment, she seems to recover for a time, but her symptoms eventually return, sometimes mildly and sometimes not-so-mildly. At present she seems to be going through one of her best periods of symptom absence.

Perhaps the one advantage my wife’s ill-health, if there is any at all, is that it allows me to focus on her problems, to talk about her problems, when the subject of health and fitness comes up in our personal and community life as it so often does and has. This keeps the focus off of my own disability and I can talk about exercise and diet this avoiding the reference to my own disability. Consequently, people have little idea of the physical problems I face and much more of an idea of hers. I don’t mind this for I am not particularly interested in talking about my disability. After 60 years it has become somewhat tedious in the telling and the thinking.

It is well known that people with bi-polar disorder are disinclined to talk about their problem in public. Such a situation has the disadvantage that people have little idea of the battles I face in my personal life and, in the end in life, we all face our battles alone—hopefully with a little help from our friends as the inimitable Joe Cocker used to sing over forty years ago. This lack of public admission or opening-up can also have disadvantages. I have a core of friends with whom I can share a broad range of intimacies. Mostly, though, these friends do not tend to inquire and I do not tend to expose these battles any more except to a limited extent. I have little need to ‘dump’ on people, as we used to say, not after 60 years anyway. On occasion and with encouragement I do.

[RonPrice]

7. Creativity and Writing:


When I finally came to accept lithium without any mental reservations by the early 1990s; when I began, too, to see the end of my teaching career on the horizon and when there was a coincidental reduction in sexual frustrations due to taking up masturbation, I began to write poetry a great deal. One could say I was obsessed; my wife certainly would use that word and I have come to accept that word as a realistic description of my behaviour, especially now that I am retired and devote all of my waking hours when possible to reading and writing. The drive to create never seems to leave me and other activities, domestic and social, serve to provide a useful backdrop and alternative to the constant demand. The demand is relentless, obsessive, compulsive, disinhibited, but, on the whole a relaxed and energtic activity: emotion recollected in tranquillity as Wordsworth once put it. Since the early 1990s until this year, 2007, perhaps a total of some 15 years, the output has surprised me. Fame and fortune, though, have not come my way. This does not really concern me for the act of writing is enough of a motivator. The fluvoxamine, since 2001, has enabled me to work after 11 pm and into 2 to 3 am without the black moods. If I wake up at 4, 5 or 6, say, a degree of emotional blackness/worry is present but the transition to sodium valproate seems smooth. The issues of career, sexual frustration and writing, while important to me and to my story are somewhat tangential to the central theme here of the bi-polar disorder. I do not want to emphasize or overemphasize these aspects of my life here.


8. Concluding Statement:


This brief and general account summarizes both the long history of this illness and where I am at present in what has been a life-long battle. I think it is important to state, in conclusion, that I possess a clinical disorder, a bio-chemical, perhaps even an electro-chemical, imbalance having to do with brain chemistry. The transmission of messages in my brain is simply or not-so-simply overactive, not smooth. With increasing diagnostic skills and knowledge and depending on what study you read, some five per cent of the population suffers from this illness. The extremes of this illness have been largely treated by lithium carbonate, sodium valproate and fluvoxamine. This has been my package; there are of course, as I have said, other packages of medication. A residue of symptoms remains which I have described briefly above. The other factors that describe my personal situation I have also outlined and need to be taken into consideration as well to provide a thorough overview of my present context. This overview will help others in various ways, ways I have also outlined above.


I have gone into the detail I have above because I wanted to give readers some idea of the extent of this illness and its subtle and not-so-subtle affects. I really feel quite and quietly exhausted from the battle with this illness and would prefer to continue to live my everyday life quietly and in ways that my health allows. In 1999 I gave up full-time work; in 2003 part-time work and in 2005 most of my volunteer work, except for some Baha’i work largely involving writing. In the years 1999 to 2005 I took part in a wide range of volunteer activities from holding a radio program, to singing in a small choir, to teaching in a school for seniors here in George Town, to organizing a series of public meetings. Now short bursts at writing are about as much as I want to handle, with other short bursts in the form of public meetings and various kinds of social activities which continue to give some variation to my life.


I also take on the inevitable and necessary domestic activities in my home and my wife has become the most critical person in the social interaction scene. These activities and this interaction are all within my capacity for short time periods. Short periods of activity are also necessitated by my chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, but that is a separate issue which I do not want to overemphasize or even emphasize here.


In two years I will be 65 and will go off the Australian Disability Support Pension(ADSP) and onto the Australian Old Age Pension(AOAP). I have not worked in full-time employment for eight years for reasons associated with this illness. I have been on this ADSP for six years. Although I have been treated for the worst side-affects of manic-depressive illness, I have little energy, enthusiasm or capacity for full-time employment or demanding social and community activity that entails many hours of interaction. It is for this reason I have been granted the ADSP. My short-term memory loss often feels like the beginning of a dementia condition, although I had a memory test administered in 2001 at the Ann Street Medical Services clinic in George Town and the test did not indicate the beginnings of dementia or even serious memory problems. My wife, though, who knows me well and experiences the affects of this memory loss, has been very concerned and often frustrated by the behaviour associated with my memory loss for several years now. All of this adds to my present incapacity although, again, I do not want to give emphasis to this memory problem because it is really a peripheral, and perhaps unrelated, aspect of the bi-polar disorder.


I trust the above outline provides an adequate information base for you to evaluate my situation. I apologize for going on at such length. I know from experience that some readers tire when required to read long essays, but I felt it was essential to place my illness in context, so to speak. I know there are many, indeed millions, who have problems far worse than my own. But this is my story, my disability, briefly stated. I could say much more and I do in my autobiography/memoirs for anyone who is interested in reading my story. I look forward to hearing from anyone in the weeks, months and years ahead should my experience be relevant to theirs and should they want to discuss these issues further.


Ron Price
23 April 2007
Age 63
No of Words: 5420
______________________FOOTNOTES________________________________________________
1. My wife, Chris, has suffered from different disorders most of our married life, although the first seven years, from 1976 to 1982 were relatively troubled free.
2 Readers interested in this story in a series of segments can go to the NAMI site, the National Alliance on Mental Illness>Consumers Section>Posting 18/7/06.
3 In 1968 I was diagnosed by a psychiatrist with a ‘mild’ schizo-affective disorder.
4 The death wish, a rare experience until I was about 35, has been a common occurrence in the last 28 years and requires its own description and analysis.
6Symptoms exhibited in childhood and adolescence are largely not described here, although I could go back to the age of two for manifestations of bi-polarism in my relationship with my mother. I discuss this complex question in my memoirs but not here.
6 The affects on my two marriages were a too extensive demand for sex and a tendency to anger; the affect on my employment was, again, the anger and desire for greater stimulation/satisfaction and in life in general a drive to succeed, to achieve. The periods 0-18 and 25-34 had a low incidence of visible symptoms and, although euphoria was rare, feelings of an enhanced emotional-sensory state were common. This, in summary, covers part of a lifetime of experience & attitude.
8 Interested readers should go to the internet site HealthyPlace.com Forums. The bi-polar section at that site has a 22 part outline under "My Story" which places my experience of bi-polar disorder in a larger autobiographical context of several hundred pages. Readers may find this an excellent site for relevant information of a number of disorders, mental and otherwise.
9 My sexual proclivities and their manifestations over these same 60 years are themselves a separate story. With 90% of marriages where one partner is bi-polar ending in divorce and some 20% of sufferers ending in suicide. I feel lucky to have survived and in the same marital relationship for over 30 years. Perhaps I will go into the sexual, marital and suicidal aspects of my life at a later date.
9 For the last 8 years, 1999 to 2007, I do academic work for an average of 8 hours a day and some exercise, relaxation program is essential for my mental balance and the continuity of my persistence. I do not go into the detail of this exercise and its various forms either in recent years or in the last sixty years.
10 I have a file of detailed notes on doctors’ visits, various treatments for various problems and background information. It is a file I opened in 1999 on my retirement to assist me in treating myself for particular medical problems that arise. But I have not commented on them here. The focus in this short account is on my bi-polar problem and some ancillary difficulties.
11 As I write these words I have just gone off lithium and onto sodium valproate.

12. This quotation is from the writings of Bahá’u’lláh and the assistance I have got from the religion


13. started is a separate story unto itself.

That’s all folks!


Under normal circumstances we do not allow back to back posting in the forums. We will relax the rule for this instance.

[Jade]

7. Creativity and Writing:


When I finally came to accept lithium without any mental reservations by the early 1990s; when I began, too, to see the end of my teaching career on the horizon and when there was a coincidental reduction in sexual frustrations due to taking up masturbation, I began to write poetry a great deal. One could say I was obsessed; my wife certainly would use that word and I have come to accept that word as a realistic description of my behaviour, especially now that I am retired and devote all of my waking hours when possible to reading and writing. The drive to create never seems to leave me and other activities, domestic and social, serve to provide a useful backdrop and alternative to the constant demand. The demand is relentless, obsessive, compulsive, disinhibited, but, on the whole a relaxed and energtic activity: emotion recollected in tranquillity as Wordsworth once put it. Since the early 1990s until this year, 2007, perhaps a total of some 15 years, the output has surprised me. Fame and fortune, though, have not come my way. This does not really concern me for the act of writing is enough of a motivator. The fluvoxamine, since 2001, has enabled me to work after 11 pm and into 2 to 3 am without the black moods. If I wake up at 4, 5 or 6, say, a degree of emotional blackness/worry is present but the transition to sodium valproate seems smooth. The issues of career, sexual frustration and writing, while important to me and to my story are somewhat tangential to the central theme here of the bi-polar disorder. I do not want to emphasize or overemphasize these aspects of my life here.


8. Concluding Statement:


This brief and general account summarizes both the long history of this illness and where I am at present in what has been a life-long battle. I think it is important to state, in conclusion, that I possess a clinical disorder, a bio-chemical, perhaps even an electro-chemical, imbalance having to do with brain chemistry. The transmission of messages in my brain is simply or not-so-simply overactive, not smooth. With increasing diagnostic skills and knowledge and depending on what study you read, some five per cent of the population suffers from this illness. The extremes of this illness have been largely treated by lithium carbonate, sodium valproate and fluvoxamine. This has been my package; there are of course, as I have said, other packages of medication. A residue of symptoms remains which I have described briefly above. The other factors that describe my personal situation I have also outlined and need to be taken into consideration as well to provide a thorough overview of my present context. This overview will help others in various ways, ways I have also outlined above.


I have gone into the detail I have above because I wanted to give readers some idea of the extent of this illness and its subtle and not-so-subtle affects. I really feel quite and quietly exhausted from the battle with this illness and would prefer to continue to live my everyday life quietly and in ways that my health allows. In 1999 I gave up full-time work; in 2003 part-time work and in 2005 most of my volunteer work, except for some Baha’i work largely involving writing. In the years 1999 to 2005 I took part in a wide range of volunteer activities from holding a radio program, to singing in a small choir, to teaching in a school for seniors here in George Town, to organizing a series of public meetings. Now short bursts at writing are about as much as I want to handle, with other short bursts in the form of public meetings and various kinds of social activities which continue to give some variation to my life.


I also take on the inevitable and necessary domestic activities in my home and my wife has become the most critical person in the social interaction scene. These activities and this interaction are all within my capacity for short time periods. Short periods of activity are also necessitated by my chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, but that is a separate issue which I do not want to overemphasize or even emphasize here.


In two years I will be 65 and will go off the Australian Disability Support Pension(ADSP) and onto the Australian Old Age Pension(AOAP). I have not worked in full-time employment for eight years for reasons associated with this illness. I have been on this ADSP for six years. Although I have been treated for the worst side-affects of manic-depressive illness, I have little energy, enthusiasm or capacity for full-time employment or demanding social and community activity that entails many hours of interaction. It is for this reason I have been granted the ADSP. My short-term memory loss often feels like the beginning of a dementia condition, although I had a memory test administered in 2001 at the Ann Street Medical Services clinic in George Town and the test did not indicate the beginnings of dementia or even serious memory problems. My wife, though, who knows me well and experiences the affects of this memory loss, has been very concerned and often frustrated by the behaviour associated with my memory loss for several years now. All of this adds to my present incapacity although, again, I do not want to give emphasis to this memory problem because it is really a peripheral, and perhaps unrelated, aspect of the bi-polar disorder.


I trust the above outline provides an adequate information base for you to evaluate my situation. I apologize for going on at such length. I know from experience that some readers tire when required to read long essays, but I felt it was essential to place my illness in context, so to speak. I know there are many, indeed millions, who have problems far worse than my own. But this is my story, my disability, briefly stated. I could say much more and I do in my autobiography/memoirs for anyone who is interested in reading my story. I look forward to hearing from anyone in the weeks, months and years ahead should my experience be relevant to theirs and should they want to discuss these issues further.


Ron Price
23 April 2007
Age 63
No of Words: 5420
______________________FOOTNOTES________________________________________________
1. My wife, Chris, has suffered from different disorders most of our married life, although the first seven years, from 1976 to 1982 were relatively troubled free.
2 Readers interested in this story in a series of segments can go to the NAMI site, the National Alliance on Mental Illness>Consumers Section>Posting 18/7/06.
3 In 1968 I was diagnosed by a psychiatrist with a ‘mild’ schizo-affective disorder.
4 The death wish, a rare experience until I was about 35, has been a common occurrence in the last 28 years and requires its own description and analysis.
6Symptoms exhibited in childhood and adolescence are largely not described here, although I could go back to the age of two for manifestations of bi-polarism in my relationship with my mother. I discuss this complex question in my memoirs but not here.
6 The affects on my two marriages were a too extensive demand for sex and a tendency to anger; the affect on my employment was, again, the anger and desire for greater stimulation/satisfaction and in life in general a drive to succeed, to achieve. The periods 0-18 and 25-34 had a low incidence of visible symptoms and, although euphoria was rare, feelings of an enhanced emotional-sensory state were common. This, in summary, covers part of a lifetime of experience & attitude.
8 Interested readers should go to the internet site HealthyPlace.com Forums. The bi-polar section at that site has a 22 part outline under "My Story" which places my experience of bi-polar disorder in a larger autobiographical context of several hundred pages. Readers may find this an excellent site for relevant information of a number of disorders, mental and otherwise.
9 My sexual proclivities and their manifestations over these same 60 years are themselves a separate story. With 90% of marriages where one partner is bi-polar ending in divorce and some 20% of sufferers ending in suicide. I feel lucky to have survived and in the same marital relationship for over 30 years. Perhaps I will go into the sexual, marital and suicidal aspects of my life at a later date.
9 For the last 8 years, 1999 to 2007, I do academic work for an average of 8 hours a day and some exercise, relaxation program is essential for my mental balance and the continuity of my persistence. I do not go into the detail of this exercise and its various forms either in recent years or in the last sixty years.
10 I have a file of detailed notes on doctors’ visits, various treatments for various problems and background information. It is a file I opened in 1999 on my retirement to assist me in treating myself for particular medical problems that arise. But I have not commented on them here. The focus in this short account is on my bi-polar problem and some ancillary difficulties.
11 As I write these words I have just gone off lithium and onto sodium valproate.
12. This quotation is from the writings of Bahá’u’lláh and the assistance I have got from the religion
13. started is a separate story unto itself.
That’s all folks!


Thank you for your discussion on Bipolar and its effects on your life. I can surely relate to the extremes ups and downs. Of course I’ve only been fighting bipolar for 2 years –although I’m sure I’ve had it for 17 years—but I’ve packed quite a bit in those two years: Six hospitalizations and countless episodes (I tend to cycle rather rapidly—sometimes on a weekly time-frame and sometimes on a monthly time-frame). I must say I was amazed at your organization and choice of words. My brain seems so fragmented at times I swear it’s made of Swiss cheese.

I would be interested in reading your story in full, as you mention in your post. If you’d be so kind as to email it to me; (jadestalon@gmail.com (jadestalon@gmail.com)), I’d love to hear from you.

This past week my doctor turned my world upside down. He re-diagnosed me as “Bipolar I,” saying that my current episode was mixed. I’ve never considered that my highs could be mania as opposed to hypomania. My doctor tells me it’s possible for a high functioning person to have mania and not need hospitalization. Of course when I entered the mixed episode I had suicidal ideation as well as racing thoughts and tons of energy. So into the hospital I went. Now I’m feeling refreshed, normal (whatever that is) and thinking clearly. So I’m glad I went in. Even though it was an inconvenience on both me and my family, I clearly benefited and my family understands, in as much as they’re able, that it was necessary. I am blessed by them.

I may have said this before, but I am amazed at how bipolar episodes can distort one’s belief system as well as one’s emotions. When I sail on the winds of mania, I truly think I can do anything, that nothing can harm me, and that I can juggle numerous activities at once without dropping them. My mind races at the speed of lightning or so it would seem. Meanwhile the world around me is moving at a snail’s pace. This is often a point of irritation for me. The traffic light can change fast enough. The green toad of a car in front of me just won’t go faster than 80 miles an hour. It takes forever for your friends to get a single thought out. Then after awhile your thoughts go too fast for you to even keep up and your friends can understand what you’re saying. My house usually looks its best during this time. And it’s not a good idea for me to have a checkbook or a steering wheel in my hands. Inevitably the mania spirals into a bleak pit of depression. Thoughts slow to a crawl and the body follows suit. The train of thought goes something like this: I can’t do anything right, I’m no good, I hate my life, why do I go on living, and finally I want to die and the urge becomes irresistible. Hopeless, Helpless, Lonely even in a crowd, Depressed, and Suicidal represent the lows. Unfortunately 25-50% of bipolars attempt suicide, many of which are successful. Slowly over time the darkness ebbs and sanity returns to the tormented individual. The right medicine combination can interrupt this cycle at any phase and prevent or lessen future episodes.

[Dave G]

I never noticed that. I never noticed that my impatience with people was due to my bipolar. Thanks for that, that gives me something new to think about.

[audioseizure]

i have bi-polar disorder. i find that taking my medicine is the best way to deal with it.

[outcast]

Their is no such thing as "Bi- polar disorder, my wife was diagnosed with it from secular Doctors, Today it has been 3yrs since shes been off her medication, through christian counseling at 5 fold ministries, and being taught the truth that its not real she is 100% normal. i should have her talk with you. Also look at your medication and read the small print of SIDE AFFects, that say "SUICIDAL THOUGHTS" Do you think thats from God or the Devil, When you take psychotic drugs you open yourself up to the supernatural,

I dont think you should quit taking your medication right away because you could damage your body, just ween your self off it. If you have moments of anger or depresion CRY LET IT OUT DONT Berry IT! IT is natural to feel Angry, upset, find ways to release anger in healthy ways, workout, go for a walk, jogging, Buy a punching bag unless your living in school of course.
My Pastor taught me the more you cry the more Healing you receive in that area.

ALL medications do is suppress your hurts, and anger and emotional hurts, and you carry them around longer, if you want something Natural that God created try Taking "Gabba" at GNC store twice a day once in the morning and once in the evening, it calms us down without giving us a drug feeling, i took it so i didn't cry at work , when my wife left me, and it worked 100%

[gharfish]

Sure, there is such a thing ! Maybe you know it as manic-depressive disease.

[Sparko]

Their is no such thing as "Bi- polar disorder, my wife was diagnosed with it from secular Doctors, Today it has been 3yrs since shes been off her medication, through christian counseling at 5 fold ministries, and being taught the truth that its not real she is 100% normal. i should have her talk with you. Also look at your medication and read the small print of SIDE AFFects, that say "SUICIDAL THOUGHTS" Do you think thats from God or the Devil, When you take psychotic drugs you open yourself up to the supernatural,

I dont think you should quit taking your medication right away because you could damage your body, just ween your self off it. If you have moments of anger or depresion CRY LET IT OUT DONT Berry IT! IT is natural to feel Angry, upset, find ways to release anger in healthy ways, workout, go for a walk, jogging, Buy a punching bag unless your living in school of course.
My Pastor taught me the more you cry the more Healing you receive in that area.

ALL medications do is suppress your hurts, and anger and emotional hurts, and you carry them around longer, if you want something Natural that God created try Taking "Gabba" at GNC store twice a day once in the morning and once in the evening, it calms us down without giving us a drug feeling, i took it so i didn't cry at work , when my wife left me, and it worked 100%

Maybe you should be careful before you dish out medical advice. Especially since the apparent result of your wife going off her medication was that she left you.

[outcast]

Sounds like a "add Hominem attack" to me, my wife and i are back together because of the will of God for our lives, first and then our love for one another.

I was suggesting her taking something natural that GOD created versus something the man made. If you are a christian where do you think depressive thoughts come from :

A. God
B. Yourself
C. Satan
Do you know why half the teenagers in the USA are on "depression Medications"?
I'm not being sarcastic im asking you a sincere question, i value your opinion Sparko

And for "LA gharial" Society wants you to belive that theirs a disease for every thing? pretty soon smoking Cigarets will be a disease, How about stealing, a person who steals should they be labeled as having the "Thieving Disease".

Think about look at Alcoholism society has the audacity to call it a disease. The bible says in Galatians 5 it records the Sins of the Flesh, which is "Out Burst of wrath" tell that to a psychologist, God calls it a sin of the Flesh, not a disease, lets continue DRUNKNESS, SORCERY which is the Greek word "PHARMAKIEA" where we get the english word Pharmacy, which means medicines in general mind altering drugs, society would have you belive that "Drug addiction is a disease, and alcoholism is a disease, However what God says is absolute truth, God calls it sin, and that it comes of the flesh.
Do you see what the enemy is doing, look at it this way. God can not judge a person who has a disease, but if it is sin God can judge it. The problem is we live in a humanistic, atheistic society, people who belive in moral Relativism who dont want to take any responsibility for their actions, and do what they want, and if you remove God and replace absolute truth with "every thing is relevant" then you silence the conscience and people can do what ever they want and your left with survival of the fittest.

[brother vinny]

Sounds like a "add Hominem attack" to me, my wife and i are back together because of the will of God for our lives, first and then our love for one another.

It's ad hominem. One "d", no need to capitalize the "h".


I was suggesting her taking something natural that GOD created versus something the man made. If you are a christian where do you think depressive thoughts come from :

A. God
B. Yourself
C. Satan


I'll go with "B", in particular, one's body. We live in a fallen world, and because of this chemical imbalances in the brain do occur. Science has linked such maladies as schizophenia and the non-existant bipolar disorder to such imbalances.

Do you know why half the teenagers in the USA are on "depression Medications"?
I'm not being sarcastic im asking you a sincere question, i value your opinion Sparko

Well, I'm not Sparko, but I'll bite: I think 9 times out of ten it's because these teens grow up in a home where they're not trained according to Scripture. Some of these teens are abused (as I was), and depressive thoughts of suicide might seem to them the only way out of their situation. And every now and then one is born with the burden of a genetic propensity toward chemical imbalances in the brain.

And for "LA gharial" Society wants you to belive that theirs a disease for every thing? pretty soon smoking Cigarets will be a disease, How about stealing, a person who steals should they be labeled as having the "Thieving Disease".

Ahem, :there's," not "theirs". If you want us to respect your opinion on scientific matters, you're going to have to show forth an ability to communicate.

I agree there is an unfortunate trend in society today to try to label unwanted behaviors as "diseases." However, when there is substantial evidence of behavior being affected by the aforementioned chemical imbalances, I think it's wise to take notice and have it treated.

<snip>


SORCERY which is the Greek word "PHARMAKIEA" where we get the english word Pharmacy, which means medicines in general mind altering drugs,

Please inform us of the next time you catch a bacterial infection, and your subsequent avoidance of the pharmacy; I'd love to hear about it. The sorcery referred to in the New Testament has about as much resemblance to modern medicine as medieval bloodletting using leaches.

You seem earnest in your beliefs, but one can be sincerely wrong. It is my opinion your mistrust of medicine is based upon fear, and fear is one malady for which the Bible has a specific cure.

[outcast]

Darth Vincerius you are a Christian Right? Do you take the bible literally, let me rephrase that in case i spelt something wrong, do you belive in absolute truth?

I do beleive that we live in a fallen world, you know those sciencetist who your having faith in beleive that we came from monkeys, science is ok as long as it does not contradict scripture.

what is your definition of spiritual warfare concerning Christanity,

[brother vinny]

Darth Vincerius you are a Christian Right? Do you take the bible literally, let me rephrase that in case i spelt something wrong, do you belive in absolute truth?



Yes to both. I also believe it's an absolute truth that sin has stained every aspect of human existence, including Bible interpretation. Because of this, both you and I are bound to have misinterpreted the Bible in one way or another. It's my opinion that you've misinterpreted the Bible concerning the use of medicine.



I do beleive that we live in a fallen world, you know those sciencetist who your having faith in beleive that we came from monkeys, science is ok as long as it does not contradict scripture.



Whether the scientists I'm "having faith in" believe in evolution is really beside the point. These same scientists will also tell you they believe the earth is spherical and that it orbits the sun and rotates eastward upon a tilted axis. The scientist who is wrong about evolution may very well be right about some other field of study.



Medical science is based on observational data and repeatable experiments. Scientists see a pattern in people whose emotions swing from an extreme end of the spectum and then back towards the other end, and it sets them to wondering. They notice an imbalance in chemicals in the brain and hypothesize that the pattern is related to the imbalance. They then find medicines that have an effect on the imbalance, and notice in study after study that the medicines control the imbalance and help individuals manage their bipolar disorder.



I'm an IT Help Desk Analyst, and so tend to look at bipolar on terms I'm familiar with, i.e., computer terms. God has given us a sound mind (2 Timothy 1:7), which could be understood as akin to the operating system on a PC. Now, one can have the best operating system known to man, but the operating system isn't going to be of much use if the hardware is jacked up. Chemical imbalances in the brain--the hardware--of the bipolar person make it difficult to run the software Gid has given us.



what is your definition of spiritual warfare concerning Christanity,



Putting on the whole armour of God (Eph 6:13), bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ (2Cr 10:5), and so forth. I imagine our definitions probably come pretty close to each other's. Where we seem to differ is what we're willing to regard as spiritual battles.

[outcast]

Darth Vincerius, i really didny fully understand what you meant by bible interpration, so i will exsplain where my position is on that matter. The writers of the Bible were under inspiration of the Holy Spirit when they wrote the Original texts. Now concerning Translators who then recorded it in their languages yes you do run the risk of mistakes, because of human eror.
The bible though is absolute truth, and it has all the awnsers concerning ethics, psycology, war, you name it, every need that the indivisual needs can be found in the word of God.
You are right you are entitled to your opinion, However the bible is verry clear that Psychotic Drugs are sorcery. Now i dont want you to misunderstand me i am not against all medicine i do take Goody powders, and when im sick i do go visit the doctor some times, However, i do not limit God ability to heal people through the Word of God alone, and i do not beleive in taking Psycotic drugs to beary emotional pain that suppresses a beleivers ability to hear from God clearly and just makes the indivisual walk around with the problem longer.
I beleive in treating the root of the problem with biblical principles rather then medication that only treats symptoms, rather then the root problem.
I almost forgott, i do not interpret the bible, i let the bible speak to me, i dont add to it nor take away from it.

i got 2 questions for you

1. Where does your memory come from?
2. What are your definition of Spiritual battles?

[brother vinny]

Darth Vincerius, i really didny fully understand what you meant by bible interpration, so i will exsplain where my position is on that matter. The writers of the Bible were under inspiration of the Holy Spirit when they wrote the Original texts. Now concerning Translators who then recorded it in their languages yes you do run the risk of mistakes, because of human eror.

One also runs the risk of making mistakes interpreting the meaning of Scripture.

The bible though is absolute truth, and it has all the awnsers concerning ethics, psycology, war, you name it, every need that the indivisual needs can be found in the word of God.

<apparently not the individual's need for a spell checker>

You are right you are entitled to your opinion, However the bible is verry clear that Psychotic Drugs are sorcery.

The Bible talks about drugs being used to make otherwise rational people follow sorcerers like the Pied Piper of Hamelin. Drugs that treat chemical imbalances in the brain have the exact opposite effect, i.e., they facilitate rational thought.

(By the by, you ranted earlier against man-made pharmaceuticals, but you fail to realize that the drugs used in ancient times weren't developed in high-tech labs--they were created by God. Mood-altering substances like caffeine, nicotine, the coca leaf, THC, and mescaline are all from God's hand. Would these be acceptable treatment options, you think?)

Now i dont want you to misunderstand me i am not against all medicine i do take Goody powders, and when im sick i do go visit the doctor some times, However, i do not limit God ability to heal people through the Word of God alone, and i do not beleive in taking Psycotic drugs to beary emotional pain that suppresses a beleivers ability to hear from God clearly and just makes the indivisual walk around with the problem longer.

So how do you suggest we treat chemical imbalances in the brain? Goody headache powder?

I beleive in treating the root of the problem with biblical principles rather then medication that only treats symptoms, rather then the root problem.

When the root problem is a physiological, such as a chemical imbalance in the brain, then medical treatment is needed.

I almost forgott, i do not interpret the bible, i let the bible speak to me, i dont add to it nor take away from it.

This is such an asinine comment it doesn't warrant reply, other than this: any time you derive meaning from anything the Bible says, you're interpreting.


i got 2 questions for you

1. Where does your memory come from?

My memory, as far as I know, is the articulated thoughts recorded by my conscious mind and stored in my brain.

2. What are your definition of Spiritual battles?

One thing I know for sure about spiritual battles is that they're not against flesh and blood. When one is dealing with physiological issues like the root cause of bipolar, it is very much a flesh-and-blood issue.

This is all I have to say on this (at least, in this thread). With all sincerity, I hope your wife stays well off her meds. But if she doesn't, I hope it doesn't deliver too crushing a blow to your worldview. God is still God and still sits on the throne even though we live in a fallen world in which we await eagerly the redemption of our bodies.

[dizzle]

I feel sorry for his wife.

[outcast]

Thats ok if you dont want to talk anymore on this topic no offense taken, i originally wanted to talk to the person on the medication, however i forgot to read the rest of the posts, that she was off it, my bad. A bout the bible ahh" the Holy Spirit is the one who gives us understanding when reading the Word of God.
I think this one you might agree with me on. about 3 yrs ago my Mentor asked me "Brandon are you gonna remember what you did in life after you die and leave your body" and i thought and said sharply "well of course i'm going to". Then he said "Oh so your going to remember who you were and what you did with your life, so your memory is not in your Brain, it is in your Spirit, and your Spirit has a photographic memory as well.
Lets think this through logically if your memory was in your brain then when you die your memory would cease as well, and we would be standing before God with no identity, and we would not know what are life was like or what we did. We know from scripture this is not so.
Lets look at the story of the rich man and Lazarus, after both of them died, the rich man called to Abraham who he knew on earth while alive to have him dip his finger in water to sooth his torment. so we have to conclude that are memory is in are spirits rather then our brain. Since are memory is therefore spiritual and in the spiritual we have to access it through are brain to bring it from the spiritual realm to the physical realm, and it is the limitations of your brain that affects what you can bring consciously to remembrance.

And this part is for Xnea Bauer, My wife is happy and our marriage is going great, When you know the truth the truth will make you free, i have two scriptures for you Isaiah 5:20, and Isaiah 42:16, (KJV) Whats the Difference?

[brother vinny]

Thats ok if you dont want to talk anymore on this topic no offense taken, i originally wanted to talk to the person on the medication, however i forgot to read the rest of the posts, that she was off it, my bad. A bout the bible ahh" the Holy Spirit is the one who gives us understanding when reading the Word of God.
I think this one you might agree with me on. about 3 yrs ago my Mentor asked me "Brandon are you gonna remember what you did in life after you die and leave your body" and i thought and said sharply "well of course i'm going to". Then he said "Oh so your going to remember who you were and what you did with your life, so your memory is not in your Brain, it is in your Spirit, and your Spirit has a photographic memory as well.
Lets think this through logically if your memory was in your brain then when you die your memory would cease as well, and we would be standing before God with no identity, and we would not know what are life was like or what we did. We know from scripture this is not so.
Lets look at the story of the rich man and Lazarus, after both of them died, the rich man called to Abraham who he knew on earth while alive to have him dip his finger in water to sooth his torment. so we have to conclude that are memory is in are spirits rather then our brain. Since are memory is therefore spiritual and in the spiritual we have to access it through are brain to bring it from the spiritual realm to the physical realm, and it is the limitations of your brain that affects what you can bring consciously to remembrance.

(Well, I had hoped I was done.)

The spirit may very well have a photographic memory, but the body does not. There have been people who have received brain damage, whether through accidents or by surgery, who have lost the ability to form short-term memories. Alzheimer's disease is a braid disorder that affects memory. (My grandparents, both God-fearing Free Will Baptists who never saw a psychiatrist in their lives, had Alzheimer's toward the end of their lives. I hope you're not about to suggest their problems were merely spiritual in nature.)

I don't deny that the spirit will have memories of all we do in life, though, so where does that leave us? I believe we have two memories, one physical and one spiritual. The physical memory, unlike the spiritual one, is prone to mistakes, losses, and damage.

Oh, and by the by, the fact that you have a spiritual mentor means you do not just let the Bible speak for itself, but you seek guidance to have the Bible explained to you and to find application to your life.

[dizzle]

And this part is for Xnea Bauer, My wife is happy and our marriage is going great, When you know the truth the truth will make you free, i have two scriptures for you Isaiah 5:20, and Isaiah 42:16, (KJV) Whats the Difference?

I feel bad for her that you are so ignorant about medical conditions. No thank you for reminding me of the dark underbelly of Christianity. I am already free, I don't need your arrogance, I have Christ.

[Jade]

I can't remember all the different posts where I disagreed with you, so I'll just make a few statements.


I'm still on meds and I believe I'm finally leveled out.
Bipolar is physiological (chemical imbalance in the brain). Just as you wouldn't withhold insulin from a diabetic neither would you withhold medicine from someone with Bipolar.
I believe in a bodily resurrection. So our mind will be present at the Second Coming will all Brain diseases healed.
The correct Bipolar medicine combination treats the symptoms of Bipolar, not make them worse. Without meds my emotions, energy, and thought processes are altered.
On the other hand, I'm sure that Satan takes advantage of the illness and tempts us to give in to impulsive and risky behaviors. We are responsible for our actions.
People with Bipolar can sometimes go into remission for several years. That doesn't mean they are cured.
On the other hand, there is a small minority of people who have Bipolar who never have symptoms again. However the risk is too great to try going off meds without a doctor's supervision.
Untreated Bipolar Disorder can have devastating effects on the family--financial debt, broken/scarred relationships, extra marital affairs/flirting, reckless driving/tickets, and suicide. Not that all these would happen but these are the ways people who have Bipolar are tempted.
Satan gets blamed for more than his share in man's ways. There's a song and a saying, "Devil made me do it the first time, the second time I done it on my own."

[dizzle]

People with Bipolar can sometimes go into remission for several years. That doesn't mean they are cured.
On the other hand, there is a small minority of people who have Bipolar who never have symptoms again. However the risk is too great to try going off meds without a doctor's supervision.
Untreated Bipolar Disorder can have devastating effects on the family--financial debt, broken/scarred relationships, extra marital affairs/flirting, reckless driving/tickets, and suicide. Not that all these would happen but these are the ways people who have Bipolar are tempted.

That is why I said I was concerned for his wife. If she truly has a medical condition, and he denies that, that can be devastating. My depression disappeared for over five years, but came back.

[outcast]

My wife has a free-will choice to choose if she wants to be on medication. She desires strongly not to be because,Bi- Polar is not a disease, and she loves being set free with the truth,

[Redeemed by Him]

Hi...I am outcast's wife. All I want to say is that my husband never once made me get off my medication. I chose to by the leading of the Spirit. I am happier and have a fuller life than I have ever had before. Sure, I still have down days, but so do we all. I just give my problems to the Lord and He takes care of the rest for me. He has set me free from so much. That is all I wanted to say on this issue. I am off to browse this site and look at other subjects. I just wanted to tell you my point of view. However, when I went off my medications, I WAS under the supervision of a doctor and my pastors. I didn't just go off of them all at once. I was seeing someone for it when I got married and going off of it was the best decision I ever made. Also, if bi-polar is a genuine disease, my only question is this...Can't God heal that too? He can totally heal whatever He chooses to. If Jesus were on the planet today, don't you think He would be healing people with sicknesses and diseases. I also wanted to add that my husband is not prideful. He is just giving you his belief in love. My husband is one of the most humble men I know.

[brother vinny]

outcast,

I noticed you (perhaps pointedly, perhaps inadvertently) avoided the points brought up by myself linking brain function and memory.

If this was purposeful avoidance, then I take it you recognize that a clear link between brain function and memory blows your ideas about mental illness out of the water.

If this was an accidental omission, then please address my points. The instances of brain trauma where the ability to form new memories is impaired, coupled with the diseases that cause brain deterioration and subsequent memory loss, put the lie to your thesis that memory is a wholly spiritual phenomenon.

[dizzle]

Hi...I am outcast's wife. All I want to say is that my husband never once made me get off my medication. I chose to by the leading of the Spirit. I am happier and have a fuller life than I have ever had before. Sure, I still have down days, but so do we all. I just give my problems to the Lord and He takes care of the rest for me. He has set me free from so much. That is all I wanted to say on this issue. I am off to browse this site and look at other subjects. I just wanted to tell you my point of view. However, when I went off my medications, I WAS under the supervision of a doctor and my pastors. I didn't just go off of them all at once. I was seeing someone for it when I got married and going off of it was the best decision I ever made. Also, if bi-polar is a genuine disease, my only question is this...Can't God heal that too? He can totally heal whatever He chooses to. If Jesus were on the planet today, don't you think He would be healing people with sicknesses and diseases. I also wanted to add that my husband is not prideful. He is just giving you his belief in love. My husband is one of the most humble men I know.

Hello Redeemed, I am glad to meet you. I have a few questions for you, and I am very glad you are doing well. Is cancer a genuine disease? Would you refuse chemotherapy?

To yours, of course God can heal anything. But He doesn't choose to heal a lot of things. I am terribly near-sighted. I wear glasses. Can't God heal my vision? Of course, but He has chosen not to.

[outcast]

I already stated that the brain is the Physical instrument used to bring the spirits memories to the natural realm, if you choose not to beleive that, then their is no point discussing anything else. I'm not purposely trying to avoid your ideas.

you are still thinking your brain has memories no it doesn't all it is is a tool. for example if someone has a disease that damages their brain then their ability to bring memories from their spirit to the natural is gonna be impaired.
I cant figure out the smiles on quick reply otherwise i wopuld smile more , so people wouldnt think im angry or mean.

[brother vinny]

I already stated that the brain is the Physical instrument used to bring the spirits memories to the natural realm, if you choose not to beleive that, then their is no point discussing anything else. I'm not purposely trying to avoid your ideas.

you are still thinking your brain has memories no it doesn't all it is is a tool. for example if someone has a disease that damages their brain then their ability to bring memories from their spirit to the natural is gonna be impaired.
I cant figure out the smiles on quick reply otherwise i wopuld smile more , so people wouldnt think im angry or mean.

If there is a link between brain function and memory (even if memory exists independently of brain function, which I've not ceded but will allow for purposes of discussion), which you've now ceded, the possibility exists that there is also a link between brain function and mental illness.

Thing is, it's more than a possibility; it's a documented reality. Your strategy for treatment of such illnesses appears to be to turn a blind eye to the physical reality of mental illness and treat it as a wholly spiritual phenomenon. I'd be the first to agree with you that the spiritual side needs to be treated, but (once again turning to my computer analogy) you can't expect the software to run properly if the hardware is hosed.

Edited to add: Do you also think the brain conveys memories of experience to the spiritual realm? If so, will the events experienced by people who have the inability to form new memories not be recorded?

[gharfish]

Hi...I am outcast's wife. All I want to say is that my husband never once made me get off my medication. I chose to by the leading of the Spirit. I am happier and have a fuller life than I have ever had before. Sure, I still have down days, but so do we all. I just give my problems to the Lord and He takes care of the rest for me. He has set me free from so much. That is all I wanted to say on this issue. I am off to browse this site and look at other subjects. I just wanted to tell you my point of view. However, when I went off my medications, I WAS under the supervision of a doctor and my pastors. I didn't just go off of them all at once. I was seeing someone for it when I got married and going off of it was the best decision I ever made. Also, if bi-polar is a genuine disease, my only question is this...Can't God heal that too? He can totally heal whatever He chooses to. If Jesus were on the planet today, don't you think He would be healing people with sicknesses and diseases. I also wanted to add that my husband is not prideful. He is just giving you his belief in love. My husband is one of the most humble men I know.This is getting out of hand.

Bipolar disorder (manic depression) truly is a "genuine" disease ! And it needn't necessarily involve anything to do with the spiritual !! Yes, like all diseases of course God can heal it. So then...what ?

Your husband may be acting in love, yes, but he hasn't the medical credentials to take the radical stance he has done a time or two since he started. He had to know he was inviting controversy. Personal testimony/ials mean very, very, little when it comes to this.

Why legitimize this wild 'be set free with the truth (of God)' enterprise your husband began with your story now made public ? Drop it, yes, and go browse the site. Telling your story is OK; giving what's essentially medical advice under the guise of you all's personal theological take on a widely known to be 100% legitimate disease is not.

I had a friend die in the throes of what I know was his manic-depression disease. Disease ! He was euphorically manic and while he was being taken to a county psych ER by another friend he jumped out of a moving truck. Then it wasn't a psychiatrist he saw at the end, but a surgeon. I also had the illness long before the name change, and I attempted suicide. So please stop screwing around with this potentially life-threatening issue based on what you say God did for you personally.

What is you all's deal ??

If there is just one person who is influenced here by these testimonials and stops taking their medications to their peril thinking that, as faithful Christians too, they'll get this same healing due them--the "freeing" healing you got using your faith to bring about special favor from the Lord, thinking themselves also as "led of the Spirit," you both may have now erred badly.

See; what if these posts serve as little triggers for someone else looking in--lacking better sense at the time--and influences them to say to themselves "I also don't like the way my medicines make me feel, so I'll 'taper myself off' and see what happens," or more to the point, worse: "This medicine/s are stopping the high (mania) that I enjoy, so I'll stop," you all's input here would have been quite detrimental. Some people have extreme mood swings with this illness and their judgement can become significantly impaired. They may not be being closely followed by a psychiatrist as you were, and happen to be inbetween 'pastors' too, at the time they see these promising statements here.

Way too much of this is uninformed and therefore bad advice. If a problem did arise out there (consider how many people read these as 'visitors') it would not have mattered that you all did so with good will intended.

[Redeemed by Him]

First of all, yes, I was telling MY story. Never once did I tell anyone to stop taking their medicines. And God did heal me from it. Please don't judge unless you know my full story because you don't. My husband never once claimed to have medical credentials, He was simply just stating what he believes to be true. I have a board already that I love so I will stay there. I have noticed one thing, anyone here is free to post whatever they want, AS LONG as it agrees with whatever everyone else believes. My husband does NOT deserve the attacks you all have been throwing at him saying that you feel sorry for me or any thing of the sort. If you do not believe that God healed me, fine. However, let me have the freedom to say that I was. And if someone does want to be healed from it, by all means, they can be healed. I am now done with this board because i don't need the hatred that is rampant among you people. For a Christian site, there should be alot more love and maybe I am wrong to say, but I can't read anymore ugly posts putting my husband down. None of you know him, so quit judging him. And respect HIs beliefs just as he does yours.

[dizzle]

And if someone does want to be healed from it, by all means, they can be healed.

Are you suggesting that anyone who is not healed is not healed because they don't want to be?

And you never answered my questions but flounced off in a huff. Suit yourself, but you can't take the "high road" when you deny that others have medical conditions and claim that if they only wanted to be healed they would be.

As far as saying I am sorry for you - I take that back - it was too personal, and you are correct. I apologize for saying that.

[Redeemed by Him]

Well, our church believes that every Christian has a covenant right to healing. That is our right as God's kids. So, yes, if someone does want to be healed and they are saved, then yes, they can be healed. Either I or my husband will post some of those scriptures for you.

Of course cancer is a genuine disease. IF I did have cancer, I would take the chemo until my healing took place. I am just saying that it is my personal opinion that bi-polar is just a name that doctors will use to lable a behavior. I could be wrong. However, if it is a disease, it can be healed. I was just stating my opinion that I don't think it is a disease. I will have to get back to you on where we stand as far as healing is concerned. I have it all written down in one of my courses.

[dizzle]

Well, our church believes that every Christian has a covenant right to healing. That is our right as God's kids. So, yes, if someone does want to be healed and they are saved, then yes, they can be healed. Either I or my husband will post some of those scriptures for you.

Can be healed isn't the same as "will be healed." Don't you understand that you are claiming that any professed who has any illness isn't healed because they are either not Christians or don't want to be? Does this include aging? Does this include near-sightedness? Can't you see what a burden you are placing on people?

Of course cancer is a genuine disease. IF I did have cancer, I would take the chemo until my healing took place.

Do you believe that all Christians with cancers who want to be healed will be?

I am just saying that it is my personal opinion that bi-polar is just a name that doctors will use to lable a behavior. I could be wrong.

Okay, then I am asking you to step back and consider that potential damage that you could be doing to people if you are wrong. Do you accept that?

[Redeemed by Him]

would you do me a favor? If I gave you a link to my pastor's sermon on healing, would you take an honest open-hearted listen to it. I ask you to be open minded, then if you have questions or objections, let me know and I will be more than happy to research it myself.

[Brandalf85]

I just sorta saw this thread from a friend of mine on here and read some of what has been said.

It seems that Outcast and Redeemed are saying that we are "owed a right" to be healed, and if God doesn't heal us, he is somehow denying us that right? Uhh, I'd like to know where in Scripture it says "Christian's have the right to be healed." What about non Christians? I guess they should stay where they are then? I find it hard to believe you would argue that God would somehow withold a real right to anything. Maybe I just misunderstood.

I do know the one thing we ALL deserve is Hell, but Jesus, due to love and mercy, gave us a way out through Him. Do I believe God can heal? Yes! Of course. Do I believe we have a RIGHT to be healed? No. I don't remember God saying anywhere that that was part of the deal. He heals who he heals and doesn't who he doesn't. Why? Don't ask me, ask Him.

Not here to argue but I thought I'd put something.

[Redeemed by Him]

no if a Christian is not healed, it must be because they don't believe that they can or will be also a lot of times, sin or unforgiveness can prevent our healing. God will even sometimes heal a non-Christian as a sign of His might. But as far as Christians go, if you truly believe you can be healed and that it is God's will for you to be well, then you will be healed.

[Gabby]

So do you believe that Paul didn't believe that God could take away his thorn in the flesh?

[Redeemed by Him]

I have an answer for that...Because I used to think the same thing..>I have to clean for company this weekend......but My husband can tell you when he gets up tonight

[dizzle]

no if a Christian is not healed, it must be because they don't believe that they can or will be also a lot of times, sin or unforgiveness can prevent our healing. God will even sometimes heal a non-Christian as a sign of His might. But as far as Christians go, if you truly believe you can be healed and that it is God's will for you to be well, then you will be healed.

Redeemed, I truly pray you never get sick - I wouldn't want you to ever feel the burden that such thinking puts on people. One day you will grow old, and you will die. You will likely start to have sight problems and other problems that elderly people suffer from. It will not be from lack of faith. I really do regret you have this point of view. I don't doubt your sincerity one bit, and I do not mean to talk down to you, so if it seems that way, please know that I do not intend that. It is hard sometimes to talk on a message forum and project the appropriate warmth.

I urge you just to imagine though the damage that is caused if you are wrong. Do you really, really think you could look Joni Erickson Tada in the eye and say these things? Sister, I urge you to reflect upon these things.

[RumTumTugger]

Well, our church believes that every Christian has a covenant right to healing. That is our right as God's kids. So, yes, if someone does want to be healed and they are saved, then yes, they can be healed. Either I or my husband will post some of those scriptures for you.

apology accepted...I will have to look back to see what questions I missed...

1st yes God can heal when He wants to but that is not the promise he gives to us that we will always be healed. and before you go and start quoting verses I have a question to ask of you was the Apostle Paul a follower of Christ or not because it appears your church is saying he wasn't. take a look at 2 Cor 12:7-9

2 Corinthians 12:7-9 (NKJV)
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. 8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. 9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
Apparently God did not heal Paul even though he truly wanted to be healed. Are you really saying that Paul was not a follower of the Way he preached about. That he was not a child of the covenant?

It is churches like yours that have poisoned the faith of so many who go through their trials of pain. If your Church teaches a faith in a God of Circumstances I want none of it thank you very much I choose to stand on The Faith dependent on a God who has proven to be trustworthy to be there in all my trials helping me to grow through them. if you want to understand more about The Faith I stand on read this article (http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=66020) I wrote some time ago after losing a dear friend to an illness that you say she should have had the faith to have been healed from. I say her faith was and is stronger then yours can ever be.

RumTumTugger

[brother vinny]

Well, our church believes that every Christian has a covenant right to healing.

I believe this is more honest a statement than one we had earlier from your spouse, who claimed he let the Bible speak for itself free from interpretation.

And, while he labels himself a fundamentalist, the content of your posts (if consistent with what your church teaches) places you and yours outside the mainstream of what is considered traditional fundamentalism and into (or dangerously near) the murky waters of the Word-Faith movement.

[Dr. Jack Bauer]

Well, our church believes that every Christian has a covenant right to healing. That is our right as God's kids.That is one of the most spiritually poisonous things I have read in a very long time - and I've seen some horrible stuff.

A covenant right to healing. A right? So God has a moral obligation to give you healing? There's no way out - if it's your "right," then it's God's obligation. Is that what you want to say?

[Shadow Phoenix]

I wish Redeemed would follow this to the logical conclusion.

Why, I guess I won't wear my seat belt when I drive. If God wants to protect me when I'm going down the road, well he'll protect me. If healing is promised under the covenant, why not protection?

I can give up going to the grocery store. If God wants me to eat, well I'm just going to trust him to provide me with food.

Hey! Why don't I quit my job?! You know, I don't like it and that's just not counting on God to meet my financial needs.

No. All of those would be stupid things to do. God can heal. God can do miracles. Will he is the question. If I do X, is God obligated to do Y? No. I am in no position to place any demands on God and he is in the right place to place demands on me.

I find it amazing that cancer treatment is allowable. Mental treatment is not though. The same God who made the body also made the brain. If there is a chemical imbalance in one's body, it is not spiritual to deny it any more than it would be spiritual to deny an insulin problem in a diabetic. It is simply a fact of life.

It's also an insult. It implies that people like myself who can suffer greatly from OCD or another mental condition are second-rate Christians because we still have this problem, if we're considered Christians at all.

God gave us brains. He intends for us to use them. If I am seriously sick, I will go to a doctor. When I am suffering from problems of a psychological nature though, I do call my counselor and at times, I talk to my friends for solace as well.

This kind of attitude makes me sick. What is worse though is that God gets the blame. Why? Because this is based on the leading of the Spirit. Do me a favor. Go to the NT and look up the phrase "Led by the Spirit" and see what it really means before you use the Holy Spirit to justify whatever decision you make.

[Sparko]

That kind of Name it and Claim it theology is a false doctrine. Basically it is making God into our Genie. He has to do whatever we wish if we just have enough faith. All it does it make people doubt their salvation because everyone will eventually get sick and won't get the healing they think God 'owes' them and they will think that they must not be 'real Christians' or that God hates them. The whole thing is nothing but a lie from Satan that only sets people up for disappointment.

God promises us salvation and healing from sin. Our promise of everlasting life and health is for our resurrected bodies, not our current ones. One day we will have eternal life and perfect health. One day we will be completely free of the effects of sin. That day isn't here yet.

Does God heal? of course he does. But he heals whom he wants, and not whom WE want. We serve God, he does not serve us.

[OckhamsRazor]

I have recently been diagnosed with Bi-polar disorder and find myself struggling with it. So I'd like to pose a couple of questions. First of all, are there other bipolars here? Second, of those who are, what do you find as most helpful in coping with it (What specific coping strategies work the best for you)?

Hi,
I have bi-polar my self. Mine is type two. The best way to deal with it that I'm aware of is to take your meds religiously and take care of your self. Keeping on a sleep schedule is vital. At least one person mentioned the increase in diagnosis of people with bi-polar. I wouldn't presume to second guess my doctor the way that person does. Most likely you've been diagnosed that way for good reason. The reason there has been an increase is because of the broadened recognition of what bi-polar is. There was initially the idea that bi-polar was essentially type one. This left out allot of people who were actually suffering from bi-polar because they didn't fit the stereotype. Bi-polar is now seen in a "Spectrum". There are numerous forms and degrees of it. You must remember that it will be tempting not to take your meds. Don't be fooled by this feeling. I find my self a bit annoyed with some of the people undermining your confidence in your diagnosis. In my opinion that attitude may undermine your chances for getting well. While I've seen some evidence of "Fad" diagnosis in therapists diagnosis of people; I find it unlikely that that would be an issue for a psychiatrist. There is a big difference between the diagnosis of a therapist and a psychiatrist. If you are getting meds for bi-polar then a psychiatrist has most likely agreed with the diagnosis that you've been given. You should take your diagnosis seriously and trust your doctors.

[Jade]

Hi,
I have bi-polar my self. Mine is type two. The best way to deal with it that I'm aware of is to take your meds religiously and take care of your self. Keeping on a sleep schedule is vital. At least one person mentioned the increase in diagnosis of people with bi-polar. I wouldn't presume to second guess my doctor the way that person does. Most likely you've been diagnosed that way for good reason. The reason there has been an increase is because of the broadened recognition of what bi-polar is. There was initially the idea that bi-polar was essentially type one. This left out allot of people who were actually suffering from bi-polar because they didn't fit the stereotype. Bi-polar is now seen in a "Spectrum". There are numerous forms and degrees of it. You must remember that it will be tempting not to take your meds. Don't be fooled by this feeling. I find my self a bit annoyed with some of the people undermining your confidence in your diagnosis. In my opinion that attitude may undermine your chances for getting well. While I've seen some evidence of "Fad" diagnosis in therapists diagnosis of people; I find it unlikely that that would be an issue for a psychiatrist. There is a big difference between the diagnosis of a therapist and a psychiatrist. If you are getting meds for bi-polar then a psychiatrist has most likely agreed with the diagnosis that you've been given. You should take your diagnosis seriously and trust your doctors.

Thank you for your reply.

Much has happened since my opening post, including going off my meds for a time (big mistake). It has taken a total of 2 1/2 years to become stable with meds for 2 weeks. I'm in celebration mode. :smile: I know that it may return, but for now I'm rejoicing in my stability. I'm also trying to keep a good sleep pattern going.

[Adam]

Hi,
I have bi-polar my self. Mine is type two. The best way to deal with it that I'm aware of is to take your meds religiously and take care of your self. Keeping on a sleep schedule is vital. At least one person mentioned the increase in diagnosis of people with bi-polar. I wouldn't presume to second guess my doctor the way that person does. Most likely you've been diagnosed that way for good reason. The reason there has been an increase is because of the broadened recognition of what bi-polar is. There was initially the idea that bi-polar was essentially type one. This left out allot of people who were actually suffering from bi-polar because they didn't fit the stereotype. Bi-polar is now seen in a "Spectrum". There are numerous forms and degrees of it. You must remember that it will be tempting not to take your meds. Don't be fooled by this feeling. I find my self a bit annoyed with some of the people undermining your confidence in your diagnosis. In my opinion that attitude may undermine your chances for getting well. While I've seen some evidence of "Fad" diagnosis in therapists diagnosis of people; I find it unlikely that that would be an issue for a psychiatrist. There is a big difference between the diagnosis of a therapist and a psychiatrist. If you are getting meds for bi-polar then a psychiatrist has most likely agreed with the diagnosis that you've been given. You should take your diagnosis seriously and trust your doctors.
I'm Bipolar II, also, OR.
And I would never have been diagnosed as Bipolar but for two extraneous factors: my daughter was diagnosed as Bipolar I, and I worked for three years in a petrochemically toxic workplace that intensified my hypomanic high to a manic high. Even so, I was never so manic that I could not work for pay, just high enough that I got fired some times. So I would more likely have been diagnosed only as Depressive of some type, as there were two periods in my thirties and again in my forties when I was clinically depressed and unemployable for several months in a row.
As for meds, I would never argue against taking them, but I wonder whether there are others who as Type II are like me and must have lower doses of medicine. If you're getting meds for mania and find yourself feeling like a zombie, you're probably over-medicated. If you're getting anti-depressives because you're depressed, you're probably getting too much if you start feeling "too good" or if you seem to be alarming people by your brashness. Further, I would not reject alternative medicine if you're so inclined, and it is working for you. Also there is the problem that the classic meds for Bipolar, lithium and tegretol, have toxicity problems and long-term dangers. My parathyroid gland got damaged by lithium, and I can never take it again.
Adam
Adam

[outcast]

Well i am done talking about this subject, i already said what i wanted to say concerning bi-polar, i feel sorry for those who are suffering with depression. I encourage every person who is suffering with Bi-Polar to read my wifes testimony (Redeemed) for encouragement. I would also challenge those Christians who i have talked with on this board to read a book called "Christ the Healer" by FF. Bosworth. I did a book report on him for my churches Healing room classes. This book would anwser allot of your guys assumptions and questions petaining to healing. i could anwser all your questions, however being a student and working a full time Job is time consuming. And last for those who are suffering from depression, Emotional hurts, anger, mood swings, i would challenge you to look into Christian Counseling, but not just any look for one who is licenced in "Telos Therapy" which would probably be a "Full Gospel Church" however not all. "Oh and for those of you who think im giving medical advise, no im not, hence im giving my Opinion. God bless and see you latter, Numbers 6:26

[Storico]

Personal perspective, addressed to nobody in particular but to anyone who wants it: I grew up with a bipolar parent. That was.... interesting. The highs and lows, the erratic behaviour, the way meds reacted badly with his body and his mind... he struggled. He really did. He asked God every day to take it from him, to help him be rid of it. He took himself off his meds, and despite his doctors warning him to NOT make any rash decisions, he moved out -- still very much a manic depressive. The only difference was then, and is now, that he believed God had healed him and that he'd conquered it. It's not something, by ANY means, that you simply "get over". He's still manic depressive now, and can't recognize it in himself. He was unable to communicate with us. He firmly believed God healed him, that God has given him special projects and messages and favours -- all of which he discusses when on a manic high. On a low... let's not go there. I've learned to take it in stride. His disease cost him his marriage, among other things (including a decent chunk of my preteenagehood), and that we're working through it now just means that we've both tried really hard to be friends DESPITE the disease. I love him dearly, but even love doesn't make it much easier. Call it whatever you want, say it's gone and never to return, but don't be so certain about it that you live in denial. Please. Don't let your kids have to beg you to get help. And please, don't take yourself off your meds, whatever you do. You WILL find one that works a little better for you eventually. Just hang on. Your family will thank you.

[Jade]

Personal perspective, addressed to nobody in particular but to anyone who wants it: I grew up with a bipolar parent. That was.... interesting. The highs and lows, the erratic behaviour, the way meds reacted badly with his body and his mind... he struggled. He really did. He asked God every day to take it from him, to help him be rid of it. He took himself off his meds, and despite his doctors warning him to NOT make any rash decisions, he moved out -- still very much a manic depressive. The only difference was then, and is now, that he believed God had healed him and that he'd conquered it. It's not something, by ANY means, that you simply "get over". He's still manic depressive now, and can't recognize it in himself. He was unable to communicate with us. He firmly believed God healed him, that God has given him special projects and messages and favours -- all of which he discusses when on a manic high. On a low... let's not go there. I've learned to take it in stride. His disease cost him his marriage, among other things (including a decent chunk of my preteenagehood), and that we're working through it now just means that we've both tried really hard to be friends DESPITE the disease. I love him dearly, but even love doesn't make it much easier. Call it whatever you want, say it's gone and never to return, but don't be so certain about it that you live in denial. Please. Don't let your kids have to beg you to get help. And please, don't take yourself off your meds, whatever you do. You WILL find one that works a little better for you eventually. Just hang on. Your family will thank you.

I'm so sorry to hear the stuggles you've encountered as a result of a loved one having bipolar. My daughter and my mother have it, but it's relatively mild and doesn't mess up relationships all that badly. And I can only imagine how difficult I can be to get along with.

I have come to terms with the fact that Bipolar will just be part of my life now. I've been stable now for 3 months on Meds. *crosses fingers* Staying on my meds and in close contact with my doctor are top priority now.

Thanks for your care and concern. It means a lot to me.

:hug:

[SpiritualRadica]

What I would like to know is what a person can do to intentionally bring on the manic stage of manic depression? Any ideas?

Thanks :teeth:

[Dave G]

What I would like to know is what a person can do to intentionally bring on the manic stage of manic depression? Any ideas?

Thanks :teeth:

Actually (I'm schizo bipolar), my doctor gave me the option of taking a med that has a side effect of making me manic. I haven't wanted to try it yet.

[SpiritualRadica]

Actually (I'm schizo bipolar), my doctor gave me the option of taking a med that has a side effect of making me manic. I haven't wanted to try it yet.
How much do you want for it? :wink:

I just wonder if there is some food or something which will set it off. I think I have bipolar, but I only seem to get the 'manic' part a couple of times per month, and it only lasts 3 or 4 days at most. I can do more of my work in one day when I'm like that than in two weeks when I'm the opposite. It must be wonderful to have it the other way around :)

[Dave G]

How much do you want for it? :wink:

I just wonder if there is some food or something which will set it off. I think I have bipolar, but I only seem to get the 'manic' part a couple of times per month, and it only lasts 3 or 4 days at most. I can do more of my work in one day when I'm like that than in two weeks when I'm the opposite. It must be wonderful to have it the other way around :)
That's the only reason I'm considering it. My regular meds make me lethargic, and I sleep WAY too much.
And I'm the same, I only get manic once in a very long while.

[gharfish]

Don't go to sleep at all during a normal 24 hour day--get past the normal fatigue that brings--suffer into day 2--suffer more--transition, and slip into that high gear ! Spiritual ? No. Radical ? Yes.

[Jade]

What I would like to know is what a person can do to intentionally bring on the manic stage of manic depression? Any ideas?

Thanks :teeth:

This question has the potential to be pandora's box.

If you are Bipolar, and only a professional can diagnose, there are two reasons you DON'T want to trigger a manic episode. 1) You get too manic and get yourself in debt, or hurt yourself or others. (you cannot put a lid on mania yourself, and not always can a doctor catch it before it gets out of control). 2) Depression is linked to mania. Almost inevidable the fall follows the rise. Depression can (sometimes quickly) lead to suicidal thoughts. You really don't want mess around with Bipolar.

That being said, these things "might" trigger mania (every person is different and have different triggers--it really is like playing Russian Roulette):

Stress
Being on an anti-depressant without a moodstablizer
Going off medication that prevents mania.
Alcohol/certain drugs, legal and illegal
Not getting enough sleep

[SpiritualRadica]

This question has the potential to be pandora's box.

If you are Bipolar, and only a professional can diagnose, there are two reasons you DON'T want to trigger a manic episode. 1) You get too manic and get yourself in debt, or hurt yourself or others. (you cannot put a lid on mania yourself, and not always can a doctor catch it before it gets out of control). 2) Depression is linked to mania. Almost inevidable the fall follows the rise. Depression can (sometimes quickly) lead to suicidal thoughts. You really don't want mess around with Bipolar.

That being said, these things "might" trigger mania (every person is different and have different triggers--it really is like playing Russian Roulette):

Stress
Being on an anti-depressant without a moodstablizer
Going off medication that prevents mania.
Alcohol/certain drugs, legal and illegal
Not getting enough sleep


Thanks for the list! I'm not seriously going to try and do that, though. I refuse to ever touch any medication, alcohol or drug. :tongue:

I find that each time I get that 'high' period it lasts abit longer, and is more intense, and that afterward when I get depressed it also gets more intense. I'm not saying it's bipolar, just that this is a possibility which does fit all the symptons. I think the "mania" you are describing is more the most extreme degree of bipolar, but there are other degrees. I wouldn't discount all mania as uncontrollable madness, as you describe. Some people just want to be told it's uncontrollable so they can do whatever they want without accountability to GOD.

[Adam]

Thanks for the list! I'm not seriously going to try and do that, though. I refuse to ever touch any medication, alcohol or drug. :tongue:

Foolishness.
The very attitude, "I can handle everything myself by my own will!" is itself a sign of Bipolar.
And your very attempts to handle mania stimulate more mania. It's a vicious cycle.
The longer you wait to get medication, the stronger the meds will need to be and the more dangerous they will be.
Adam

[Whirrled Peas]

I am bipolar. How do I deal with it? Not well at all. Except for my antidepressant I'm not med compliant, though I probably should be.

[gharfish]

Do you find the manic phase such an empowering and relieving counterpart to the [awful] depression that you hesitate to take a mood modulating drug ? Are you bipoar I by any chance ?

[Jade]

I am bipolar. How do I deal with it? Not well at all. Except for my antidepressant I'm not med compliant, though I probably should be.


I'm sorry to hear you're struggling. The antidepressant might be part of the problem, though. If a person with bipolar takes an antidepressant without a mood stablizer along side it (some can't take antidepressants at all) it can cause manic symptoms or make episodes (manic or depressive) more frequent.

Working closely with your psychiatrist, you can find a med combination that works for you, but it may take some time to find it. Medicine that works for one person may be totally wrong for somebody else.

[Ashley-Cooper]

I have recently been diagnosed with Bi-polar disorder and find myself struggling with it. So I'd like to pose a couple of questions. First of all, are there other bipolars here? Second, of those who are, what do you find as most helpful in coping with it (What specific coping strategies work the best for you)?Sometimes I think I am. Other times, I just think I'm hit harder by my emotions than most people. Whatever.

I have a friend, though, who's got it so bad that, if he suddenly went off his lithium, it could jeopardize his life. Hands off. Before he went on the lithium, he could have attacks of manic dysphoria that were so severe that, on one occasion, he might have had some kind of aneurism if he hadn't been sedated and dragged off to a hospital. His emotions can literally kill him. All it would take is one little blood clot shooting up to his brain. He's also one of the most incredibly brilliant men that I've ever known, though, and I cannot imagine him ever feeling down or depressed. He's very bipolar 1, and it would almost be a form of unipolar mania if he didn't suffer from periods of intense neuroticism.

By all means, consider going on the lithium. It has relatively few side-effects, and it's been in use for thousands of years. The side-effects are relatively well understood (your doctor may say differently, and he/she probably knows more about this stuff than I do) and managable. However, one important point I need to drill home is that medication alone does not work. Medication alone does not work. Medication alone does not work. Make it your motto. Make it your pledge. Almost every decent psychiatrist in the world would not dream of using drug therapy alone to treat a problem like bipolar disorder. Enlisting other forms of therapy is a necessity. My friend still makes regular visits to his psychiatrist; and believe me, when that doc says, "jump," my friend is already three feet in the air before he asks, "how high?" His condition is NOTHING to fool around with.

In any case, one thing that he does to keep his head straight is practice a very strict form of objectivity regarding his own patterns of thought. He avoids subjective/believing thinking like the plague. I don't know whether this is necessarily useful for dealing with bipolar disorder, but this is something one person I know tends to do.

Anyway, good luck to you.

[ravenlorre]

bipolar eh?

I am experienced - I can help.

Let me know.

[Adam]

.....
By all means, consider going on the lithium. It has relatively few side-effects, and it's been in use for thousands of years. The side-effects are relatively well understood (your doctor may say differently, and he/she probably knows more about this stuff than I do) and managable. However, one important point I need to drill home is that medication alone does not work. Medication alone does not work. Medication alone does not work. Make it your motto. Make it your pledge. Almost every decent psychiatrist in the world would not dream of using drug therapy alone to treat a problem like bipolar disorder. Enlisting other forms of therapy is a necessity. My friend still makes regular visits to his psychiatrist; and believe me, when that doc says, "jump," my friend is already three feet in the air before he asks, "how high?" His condition is NOTHING to fool around with.
In any case, one thing that he does to keep his head straight is practice a very strict form of objectivity regarding his own patterns of thought. He avoids subjective/believing thinking like the plague. I don't know whether this is necessarily useful for dealing with bipolar disorder, but this is something one person I know tends to do.
Anyway, good luck to you.
Not so fast there, AC. You don't even have Bipolar. Myself, I only have Bipolar II, but my daughter has Bipolar I.
Lithium is not free of side effects. It probably would not affect a Bipolar I as badly, but it turned me into a zombie. And there's the other way you're so wrong. You cannot trust your
your psychiatrist. Not just with lithium, but with prolixin I lapsed into such a depression that I didn't begin to come out of it for four month. Yet the docs kept telling me to take both the above in spite of my complaints that it was too much. Depakote was another they kept me on too long, but without disastrous results. Forgot to mention--the lithium so damaged my parathyroid gland that I have osteopenia (bones break easily) and have to take all kinds of supplements and get sunlight every day.
Psychiatrists and the medical establishment only push pharmaceuticals like big pharma pushed on them and the med schools. There are lots of vitamins, minerals, herbs and other supplements that help, but you won't learn about them from your psychiatrist or the Manic-Depression Association.
On the other hand, you're quite right about rigorously questioning your own subjectivity. The conviction that you don't need pills and can fight the battle alone with your power of will and mind--is itself a key sign of manic-depression. Get help. You can't handle it alone.
Adam
Aside to A-C--You just joined and have done 160 posts? Who are you trying to kid? You do have Bipolar.

[Jade]

Lithium is not free of side effects. You cannot trust your
your psychiatrist. Psychiatrists and the medical establishment only push pharmaceuticals like big pharma pushed on them and the med schools. On the other hand, you're quite right about rigorously questioning your own subjectivity.

Just to take a few points from your post. . .

Agreed every medicine has side effects. Lithium is no exception. The biggest concern with lithium is getting the proper amount. Too little and you won't have enough to combat your symptoms. Too much and you get toxic. So a good doctor will run blood tests every 3 month and more often if you start showing signs of having too much.

You cannot totally trust your psychiatrist. He is knowlegdible about the medicines and their effects. Many however neglect to keep the patient suffiently informed of all the risks. Most medicines are about weighing the benefits of the medicine against the cons of the side effects. Psychiatrist aren't trained in vitamins, etc so they don't often present them as options. Now the big warning with vitamins, herbs, and what-not in regards to bipolar. Many of them can cause switches (manic to depressive and vice-versa) and rapid cycling. St. John's Wort is infamous for it. Medicine can do this too, by doctors know which ones are most-likely to cause this.

Bottom line. ASK QUESTIONS, DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH (not yelling-- emphasising and out of time to do it another way)

Gotta run. :smile:

[pearls]

Are there any here that think that bi-polar is an excuse people use to behave a certain way? My sister claims to have bi-polar. She is a huge manipulator. She has used her "bi-polar" as an excuse for the mistakes that she has made in her life instead of just owning up and taking responsibility for her actions. She always complains about her meds too, that they make her feel bad. Well, duh. It's because there is really nothing wrong with her except her own agenda of selfishness and denial. Just me two cents.

This country is WAY overmedicated. And even now some believe that a child can be bi-polar? Sounds like the docs and the drug companies have a good thing going at the expense of the people.

[Dave G]

Are there any here that think that bi-polar is an excuse people use to behave a certain way? My sister claims to have bi-polar. She is a huge manipulator. She has used her "bi-polar" as an excuse for the mistakes that she has made in her life instead of just owning up and taking responsibility for her actions. She always complains about her meds too, that they make her feel bad. Well, duh. It's because there is really nothing wrong with her except her own agenda of selfishness and denial. Just me two cents.

This country is WAY overmedicated. And even now some believe that a child can be bi-polar? Sounds like the docs and the drug companies have a good thing going at the expense of the people.
Err...kids get cancer, what keeps a child from having damaged or chemical imbalanced brains?
So the country is overmedicated? Which states are the worst? Which diseases are most overrun with drug company corruption? Are there any other countries that have a black market for designer drugs?

[sbrown5184]

Guys , I am Bi polar, and literally , yeah it is hell on earth, no other way to describe it ! Ive been on so many diff meds i cant even remember what I have been on ! trileptal, trimictal, geodon, abilify, seroquel, effexor, lexapro, im still on effexor xr ! they are all horrible tho! It has been the longest 3 years of my life ! I think I Have had a mental illness since I was like 4 yrs old tho ! I am now 24 ! When i was 4 i use to crawl up in the corner of my bed and think about dying ! It was so horrible ! I look at a little 4 year old now and it breaks my heart open so bad , because if I have kids one day and they go through that, it would kill me and break my heart ! and I would blame myself ! Not to mention I am a product of my parents sinful nature ! Which I cant do anything about it , but I am so pissed off inside at them still ! But back to being bi polar, it is horrible ! I cant hold a steady job , I get overwhelmed by 2 days of work ! All i can do is lay on the couch ! I dont even feel like writing this blog , but i am desperate for help ! I have cried mout to God , but wel all know his timing is different than ours ! So i dont know whats going on, or what he is doing ! I just know i feel like ill never come out of this ! People tell me to get on lithium, but yeah i would if Ihad insurance. I dont have anything to get help ! the mental health system and government sucks when it comes to all this area ! I am getting ready to go to a reseacrh facility here in north cincinnati and try to get help, I have nothnig else to lose ! Ive tried all i can do ! I am a follower of Christ full time, not a part time thing like alot pf people seem to be ! BUTTTTTT, i feel like a part time follower because of this condition. I cant open my bible unless I am in hypomanic state ! People tell me to just pray ! and to just read my bible , well, that dont help me out like it does normal people ! I have a stupid imbalance that is screwing me up ! Someone i saw on here said that bi polar people are manipulators ! I agree 100 % some are and some are not ! Just because u know a bi polar person who is a manipulator doesnt mean we all are ! thats having a closed mind to this situation! I have many analogies to compare that situation to, but it isnt going to solve the situation for that person ! I have never finished anything i have started , never had a good relationship , i feel very discontent with my life and god , its rough ! How come there are so many voices in thr christian world for porn addicts, healthy eating, addictions and so on, but where is the voice for bi polar in the christian world ! People just sweep it under the rug ! It is real people , and these people are hard to deal with i know, because I am one of them and i cant handle myself, i dont expect you people too ! ANybody have any thing to encourage me ! Im at my witts end with life , im not suicidal but I am sick of life and dealing with this garbage ! ALL i want to do is follow christ but It seems all to common that I am the spokesperson for Romans 3:23 ! all fall short of the glory of god !

[brother vinny]

I'm not good at advice or encouragement. . . .

I'm now 33 years old and have struggled with bipolar since the end of 2004. I agree, it is a devastating illness. I've been hospitalized 8 times during this period. Any one of these could have meant the end of my life had I not gotten help, or someone happened to help me. It's my loved ones that have gotten me through these times.

If you have a desent doctor or therapist, they will tell you:
Unfortunately there is no cure, there is no miracle drug. It can usually be maintained after the right combination is found, but even then the dose needs to be tinkered every so often. What works for one person doesn't always work for someone else. Lithium, however, is among the cheapest medication out there and has been tested for over 50 years and works for lots of people.

If you don't have insurance and can't afford medications, many drug companies offer their meds free or reduced. Ask your doctor or therapist, and they can provide you with application forms. The research facility you mentioned may also help. Sometimes they do bipolar studies and provide meds and often other amenities during the study. They may also have a list of resources you can tap after the study is over.

Apart from meds, nothing has been proven. However there has been some promise shown from certain suppliments such as Vitamins B-1,6,&12. Be careful though, some suppliments can cause a bipolar switch (depressive to manic or visa-versa)--St. John's Wort has been known to do this.

Your most valuable resource though, is a support group. People who care about, people you can trust. During the times when you're stable for however long it may last, set-up a plan. Take steps to avoid episodes (besides the things I've already mentioned, getting a set amount of sleep, eating right, and moderate amount of exercise may also help). Have you and your support group monitor your moods independently. Have someone really trusted to keep your checkbook/credit cards safe, or to get help for you if things go too far. A good source of information is www.bipolarcentral.com I know it has the look of telemarketing written all over it. But he provides much of the info for free -- including a weekly email. And he's dealt with his mother's episodes as well as some friends.

The Christian side of things. Perhaps I'm not the right person to be talking about it, as I've always struggled with Bible reading and stuff. I've gone from not caring and out-right spiteful behavior to thinking I'm God's prophetess and I know the middle ground is where I should be. Most of the time, I find it difficult to talk with someone this long-distance and he only sends a book to communicate. *sigh* Nonetheless, the promise from that Book I find myself holding to the most. . . Romans 8:28 "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose."

I'll pray for you and hope you'll pray for me. :hug:

[TuckEverlasting]

I've gone from not caring and out-right spiteful behavior to thinking I'm God's prophetess

Whoa - sex change delusions. :uneasy:

[sbrown5184]

Brother Vinny, I really appreciate you just being real and not watering down what bi polar is ! I really do, thanks! Ill check out and dive into some of the resources you mentioned ! The research place I am going does provide meds, i think the study is using zyprexa, one of the meds i havent used yet, so we will see how it goes ! I will pray for you, I know how it is ~ it sucks ! people think we just saw that ... it really truly sucks. I understand the part about u not caring as well, I get aggravated and get mad at god! it just doesnt make sense to me ! Romans 8:28 is a great verse ! its a good one to hold on to ! good luck with everything

[Jade]

Man, I've got egg all over my face! :blush: :blush: :blush: For those who haven't picked up on it. I posted on my husband's (Brother Vinny) account by accident. My husband ragged me good about it.

[Adam]

Man, I've got egg all over my face! :blush: :blush: :blush: For those who haven't picked up on it. I posted on my husband's (Brother Vinny) account by accident. My husband ragged me good about it.
That's strange! I would have thought more likely BV thought he was God's prophet than that you thought yourself God's prophetess!
On the other hand, I couldn't easily relate eight hospitalizations to BV's regular (irregular?) presence on TWeb. And BV is quite interesting enough to seem like he's one of us (bipolar, that is).
Adam

[Jade]

That's strange! I would have thought more likely BV thought he was God's prophet than that you thought yourself God's prophetess!

Mania is like a monster lurking within. It's not the real you and your can feel the potential destruction it could cause. My mind is hardly recognizeable when I'm manic.


On the other hand, I couldn't easily relate eight hospitalizations to BV's regular (irregular?) presence on TWeb.

BV has never been hospitalized for any bipolar symptoms. BV's presence on TWeb waxes and wanes due to his changing theological stances and tendencies to hermit.

And BV is quite interesting enough to seem like he's one of us (bipolar, that is).
Adam

BV may indeed have a mild case of Bipolar, but he doesn't have the extremes of delusions and hallucinations. In another contrast, I'm relatively stable in my theology but unstable in much of the rest of my life.

All this being said, there are some similarities between BV and myself. Those are part of what drew us together.

[Dave G]

Thanks for that post, Jade. I just started a social rehab program today and I felt like I was fighting my inner sin the whole time. Since I'm also schizophrenic, I don't think about the bipolar much. I hope I get better at it.

[Jade]

Update:

I had a rough time last month. My birthday (the 21st) proved to be a trigger. I spent all week in anticipation and by the time the 21st rolled around I was manic. My parents were back in town and spent the evening with them. Then on Saturday evening I went to the Nine Inch Nails concert here in Tulsa. Four hours of drooling :duh: over Trent Reznor and I needed a bucket! The mania monster was barely contained. Two night without sleep and a few trippy experiences later and I fell into a bad depression. I spent nearly all week on the couch or in my bed. I wasn't actively suicidal but would have welcomed death had it come. Between the weekend and the holiday I didn't call my doctor. But I do have an appointment on Thursday. Perhaps I need a med adjustment.

I was reading over this thread and noticed bipolar I and II were mentioned a few times. For education sake, I thought it would be a good idea to describe these and a few other variations.

Cyclothymia - mild depression and mild mania (AKA hypomania)

Bipolar II - severe depression and hypomania

Bipolar I - severe depression and mania (defined by hallucinations and/or delusions)

Bipolar NOS (not otherwise specified) - bipolar condition that doesn't fit the criteria enough for one of the other categories. For instance bipolar II requires that hypomania last at least 4 days. If yours lasts 2, then it would be NOS

There are some people who have very mild hypomania and they symptoms are barely recognizeable. But if they aren't given a mood stabilizer along with their anti-depressant, they get worse. Then there are people who apparently have only depression, but whose symptoms doesn't respond to normal treatment for depression. Some of these people improve on mood stabilizers like lithium. Soft Bipolar is the term given for this.

Seems like there was something else I wanted to add, but can't remember. And BV wants on the computer. :smile: So, until next time . . .