InChristAlways
February 11th 2005, 07:37 PM
malachi 2:10 Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us? Why do we deal treacherously with one another By profaning the covenant of the fathers? 11 Judah has dealt treacherously, And an abomination has been committed in Israel and in Jerusalem, For Judah has profaned The LORD's holy which He loves: He has married the daughter of a foreign god. [i]12 May the LORD cut off from the tents of Jacob The man who does this, being awake and aware, Yet who brings an offering to the LORD of hosts!
Hi. I would like to see how the muslims see Gog in the OT. I believe it is symbolic of Judah/Jerusalem and wondering if anyone of the Isalm faith has had a chance to study this. Most of the OT prophecies appear to be against Judah/Jerusalem so I don't think we have to fear any wrath coming amonst us "gentiles". Thanks.
(Young) Ezekiel 38:2 `Son of man, set thy face unto Gog("mountain"), of the land of Magog("land of mountain"), prince of Rosh("chief") prince of , Meshech("drawing out"), and Tubal("thou shalt be brought"), and prophesy concerning him, 3 "and say, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "Behold, I [am] against you, O Gog("mountain"), the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal. 4 "I will turn you around, put hooks into your jaws, and lead you out, with all your army, horses, and horsemen, all splendidly clothed, a great company [with] bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords.
(Young) Ezekiel 39:1 And thou, son of man, prophesy concerning Gog, and thou hast said: Thus said the Lord Jehovah: Lo, I [am] against thee, O Gog("mountain"), Prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, 2 And have turned thee back, and enticed thee, And caused thee to come up from the sides of the north, And brought thee in against mountains of Israel,
Jeremiah 17:1 "The sin of Judah written with a pen of iron; With the point of a diamond [it is] engraved On the tablet of their heart, And on the horns of your altars, 2 While their children remember Their altars and their wooden images By the green trees on the high hills. 3 O My mountain in the field, I will give as plunder your wealth, all your treasures, [And] your high places of sin within all your borders. 4 And you, even yourself, Shall let go of your heritage which I gave you; And I will cause you to serve your enemies In the land which you do not know; For you have kindled a fire in My anger [which] shall burn forever."
zech 4:6 So he answered and said to me: "This the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel: 'Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,' Says the LORD of hosts. [i]7 'Who [are] you, O great mountain? Before Zerubbabel [you shall become] a plain! And he shall bring forth the capstone With shouts of "Grace, grace to it!" ' "
[i]reve 8:8 Then the second angel sounded: And [something] like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood.
This was pretty interesting as Israel was also mentioned as being figuratively "Egypt", and the jewish rulers became like a Pharoah over the "Lost Sheep".
A Second Opinion:
Murrell G. Selden (murrellg@mediaone.net) has done some work on Egypt in Old Testament times, and made the following comments about Gog.
"In my view, when the Bible speaks of a gog, it is speaking of the earthly representative of a god (or surrogate for the god).
"For example, the cartouche of Pharaoh Haremheb said he was the gog of Horus. Horus was the head of the 9 god group (of false gods) called the Ennead. So, Pharaoh Haremheb apparently believed that he was the representative on the earth of Horus (earthly king). Whereas, Osiris was the god of the afterlife world.
"Now, the Bible says that David and Saul were the visible representative of Jehovah. Jehovah did not want the Israelites to have an earthly king, but it was the people who wanted it. So, then Saul, David, and Solomon were equivalent to gogs for Jehovah. But, they were not gogs, because they really were surrogates for Jehovah. They did have divine powers granted to them. So, I think that generally the term gog relates to the surrogate of a false god (as opposed to the true God). To the Egyptians, it was not true in their view, as the Pharaoh really did seem to them to be the essence of a god on the earth.
"Now, what about Magog. Magog was an ancient land of false gods – a place of idolatry and false worship (in the view of worshippers of Jehovah). It was located above Jerusalem and may have included all or part of Syria, and it extended around the Black Sea. You can find maps showing the approximate location by doing a search on "Magog." So, although this land does not exist now, it metaphorically represents a people or a land of false gods and false worship (just as Egypt and Babylon were centers of false gods). So, the land of Magog would be any peoples or organization of devoted to false worship. For example, the Bible refers to the "god of fortresses." In other words, those who put their faith in military power alone would be worshipers of a false god. The Soviet Union was like that. Of course, today we have perhaps the god of cyberspace. ...
"So, on a global basis, I believe gog of Magog means representatives of governments who have set themselves up as surrogates for false worship. Magog are their followers. So, simply stated, gogs are surrogates for false gods. They are the leaders of people of Magog (false god worshippers).
"So, at the Battle of Armageddon, Almighty God makes war against gog and Magog. Or simply stated, Jehovah judges and destroys false worship (both the leaders and the followers). Who are the real ones behind the false gods? They are the devil and his demons who have used the gogs to get people to worship false gods, but the devil and demons are really the false gods.
"That is my best shot, and I hope you like it. I don't guarantee anything! As far as I know, Jehovah did not anoint me to tell this. Just based on some observations and logic to draw a conclusion. Merely doing the best I can."
Hi. I would like to see how the muslims see Gog in the OT. I believe it is symbolic of Judah/Jerusalem and wondering if anyone of the Isalm faith has had a chance to study this. Most of the OT prophecies appear to be against Judah/Jerusalem so I don't think we have to fear any wrath coming amonst us "gentiles". Thanks.
(Young) Ezekiel 38:2 `Son of man, set thy face unto Gog("mountain"), of the land of Magog("land of mountain"), prince of Rosh("chief") prince of , Meshech("drawing out"), and Tubal("thou shalt be brought"), and prophesy concerning him, 3 "and say, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "Behold, I [am] against you, O Gog("mountain"), the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal. 4 "I will turn you around, put hooks into your jaws, and lead you out, with all your army, horses, and horsemen, all splendidly clothed, a great company [with] bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords.
(Young) Ezekiel 39:1 And thou, son of man, prophesy concerning Gog, and thou hast said: Thus said the Lord Jehovah: Lo, I [am] against thee, O Gog("mountain"), Prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, 2 And have turned thee back, and enticed thee, And caused thee to come up from the sides of the north, And brought thee in against mountains of Israel,
Jeremiah 17:1 "The sin of Judah written with a pen of iron; With the point of a diamond [it is] engraved On the tablet of their heart, And on the horns of your altars, 2 While their children remember Their altars and their wooden images By the green trees on the high hills. 3 O My mountain in the field, I will give as plunder your wealth, all your treasures, [And] your high places of sin within all your borders. 4 And you, even yourself, Shall let go of your heritage which I gave you; And I will cause you to serve your enemies In the land which you do not know; For you have kindled a fire in My anger [which] shall burn forever."
zech 4:6 So he answered and said to me: "This the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel: 'Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,' Says the LORD of hosts. [i]7 'Who [are] you, O great mountain? Before Zerubbabel [you shall become] a plain! And he shall bring forth the capstone With shouts of "Grace, grace to it!" ' "
[i]reve 8:8 Then the second angel sounded: And [something] like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood.
This was pretty interesting as Israel was also mentioned as being figuratively "Egypt", and the jewish rulers became like a Pharoah over the "Lost Sheep".
A Second Opinion:
Murrell G. Selden (murrellg@mediaone.net) has done some work on Egypt in Old Testament times, and made the following comments about Gog.
"In my view, when the Bible speaks of a gog, it is speaking of the earthly representative of a god (or surrogate for the god).
"For example, the cartouche of Pharaoh Haremheb said he was the gog of Horus. Horus was the head of the 9 god group (of false gods) called the Ennead. So, Pharaoh Haremheb apparently believed that he was the representative on the earth of Horus (earthly king). Whereas, Osiris was the god of the afterlife world.
"Now, the Bible says that David and Saul were the visible representative of Jehovah. Jehovah did not want the Israelites to have an earthly king, but it was the people who wanted it. So, then Saul, David, and Solomon were equivalent to gogs for Jehovah. But, they were not gogs, because they really were surrogates for Jehovah. They did have divine powers granted to them. So, I think that generally the term gog relates to the surrogate of a false god (as opposed to the true God). To the Egyptians, it was not true in their view, as the Pharaoh really did seem to them to be the essence of a god on the earth.
"Now, what about Magog. Magog was an ancient land of false gods – a place of idolatry and false worship (in the view of worshippers of Jehovah). It was located above Jerusalem and may have included all or part of Syria, and it extended around the Black Sea. You can find maps showing the approximate location by doing a search on "Magog." So, although this land does not exist now, it metaphorically represents a people or a land of false gods and false worship (just as Egypt and Babylon were centers of false gods). So, the land of Magog would be any peoples or organization of devoted to false worship. For example, the Bible refers to the "god of fortresses." In other words, those who put their faith in military power alone would be worshipers of a false god. The Soviet Union was like that. Of course, today we have perhaps the god of cyberspace. ...
"So, on a global basis, I believe gog of Magog means representatives of governments who have set themselves up as surrogates for false worship. Magog are their followers. So, simply stated, gogs are surrogates for false gods. They are the leaders of people of Magog (false god worshippers).
"So, at the Battle of Armageddon, Almighty God makes war against gog and Magog. Or simply stated, Jehovah judges and destroys false worship (both the leaders and the followers). Who are the real ones behind the false gods? They are the devil and his demons who have used the gogs to get people to worship false gods, but the devil and demons are really the false gods.
"That is my best shot, and I hope you like it. I don't guarantee anything! As far as I know, Jehovah did not anoint me to tell this. Just based on some observations and logic to draw a conclusion. Merely doing the best I can."