Martyrs' Reward

[geochron]

I read recently (in Francis Wheen's mostly excellent "How Mumbo Jumbo Conquered the World") that the virgins supposedly promised to martyrs in Islam were a mis-translation of "hur", which in Syriac meant "white raisins". Is there any truth in this?

[Krusader]

I read recently (in Francis Wheen's mostly excellent "How Mumbo Jumbo Conquered the World") that the virgins supposedly promised to martyrs in Islam were a mis-translation of "hur", which in Syriac meant "white raisins". Is there any truth in this?

I read the same think over on Muslim-Christian Dialogue. If it is true, you're going to have a whole lot of really made suicide bombers.

[CatholicSage]

I heard something like this, but it was from Robin Williams doing stand-up. He also had the terrorists meeting seven mad Virginians in the afterlife: George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and more beating the crap out of terrorists for screwing with their country. :hehe: Funny stuff.

Still, I doubt that it is a mistranslation, and I doubt even moreso that the actual translation (if it has been mistranslated) is "white raisins." Why would martyrs be promised white raisins?

[Krusader]

I heard something like this, but it was from Robin Williams doing stand-up. He also had the terrorists meeting seven mad Virginians in the afterlife: George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and more beating the crap out of terrorists for screwing with their country. :hehe: Funny stuff.

Still, I doubt that it is a mistranslation, and I doubt even moreso that the actual translation (if it has been mistranslated) is "white raisins." Why would martyrs be promised white raisins?

White raisins were a great delicacy among the Arabs of Mohammed's time. In any case, it appears that the word for virgins and white raisins are similar - and it all depends where you put the diacritical (?) marks in the Arabic.

[InChristAlways]

White raisins were a great delicacy among the Arabs of Mohammed's time. In any case, it appears that the word for virgins and white raisins are similar - and it all depends where you put the diacritical (?) marks in the Arabic.Hi crusader. I didn't know there were white raisins LOL, at least I can't remember, so I looked it up on the internet and came across this article.

http://www.northernontario.org/MajorAcidsERag/ItStrikesMe6.htm


It strikes me that 70 white raisins is a poor wage for suicidal Islamic martyrdom. Irshad Manji thinks so, too. Manji is a Canadian feminist, lesbian journalist. She’s Islamic, too, which helps explain hew new book, “The Trouble With Islam”. She is also a person in search of a way to justify persisting in her faith, so the book is not a ‘damn the torpedoes and damn Islam, too’ diatribe. She tries to find comfort and value in her religion. Unfortunately for Islam, she fails even as she tries to convince herself she succeeds.

Most of “The Trouble With Islam” presents Manji’s search for the underlying sources of what many in the Western world perceives of as the nasty face of Islam – an apparent abhorrence (or hysterical fear) of women, religiously driven violence, hatred of Jews in particular and non-Muslims in general. Are these truly reflections of Islam or are these aberrations? Manji chooses aberrations and lays the blame on what she calls “desert Islam”.


As a curious example of ijtihad, Manji questions the concept of literal truth by looking at a passage that has had plenty of buzz of late in some (mostly Western) intellectual circles. Islamic martyrs, at least according to their cheerleaders, can look forward to an afterlife of ease and plenty including 70 willing virgins.** It seems this passage may be a terrible case of mistranslation. The 70 dark-eyed virgins might actually have been, originally, white raisins, apparently a highly prized delicacy in days past.

This thought is based on recent work by Christof Luxenburg. A translation of Syriac into Arabic may have mistaken a particular word meaning white raisins for dark-eyed virgins. Translation is a difficult business, and this is also complicated by a tendency for religious texts to be allegorical, or at least metaphorical, in their intent. The Syrian original may have meant “white raisins” of “crystal clarity” which suggests something rather more gem-like than either virginal women or tasty fruit. Maybe the martyred faithful will find themselves lounging around the afterlife in the company of a small hoard of 70 diamonds. Manji limits herself to the fruit, but the effect is the same.


Douce Provence Poire Williams & Cognac French Liqueur (France; Crillon Importers, Ltd, Paramus, NJ); 30% abv, $25. Pale flaxen color. Opening whiffs pick up lightly spiced fragrances of pears and white raisins; together, the pear and cognac provide an elegant, delicate bouquet that’s soft, fruity and understated. Palate entry is tart immediately, then quickly turns semisweet as the pear influence overtakes the brandy component. Aftertaste is semisweet, ripe, fruity and intensely pear-like. A world-class liqueur, period. Best Buy.

[InChristAlways]

I read recently (in Francis Wheen's mostly excellent "How Mumbo Jumbo Conquered the World") that the virgins supposedly promised to martyrs in Islam were a mis-translation of "hur", which in Syriac meant "white raisins". Is there any truth in this?
As a curious example of ijtihad, Manji questions the concept of literal truth by looking at a passage that has had plenty of buzz of late in some (mostly Western) intellectual circles. Islamic martyrs, at least according to their cheerleaders, can look forward to an afterlife of ease and plenty including 70 willing virgins.** It seems this passage may be a terrible case of mistranslation. The 70 dark-eyed virgins might actually have been, originally, "white raisins", apparently a highly prized delicacy in days past.

This thought is based on recent work by Christof Luxenburg. A translation of Syriac into Arabic may have mistaken a particular word meaning white raisins for dark-eyed virgins. Translation is a difficult business, and this is also complicated by a tendency for religious texts to be allegorical, or at least metaphorical, in their intent. The Syrian original may have meant “white raisins” of “crystal clarity” which suggests something rather more gem-like than either virginal women or tasty fruit. Maybe the martyred faithful will find themselves lounging around the afterlife in the company of a small hoard of 70 diamonds. Manji limits herself to the fruit, but the effect is the same. Another thing is, what if the "raisins" turned out to be "males" instead? Is Hur in the feminine, neuter or masculine?:eek: