Why isn't Brazil a greater world power?

[D. Medvedev Fan]

Why isn't Brazil a greater world power?

[Teallaura]

Umm, Sweetie, could you narrow that one down a bit? As it is, you'd need a dissertation to cover it all (if then). What exactly are you trying to get at? (and do you ever ask easy questions? :wink:)

[D. Medvedev Fan]

Why aren't they like China or like Russia used to be? Why are they not a major world power like that? Do they lack money, support of local countries in international politics, technology, natural resources?

Is that any narrower?

[Teallaura]

Er, not a whole lot. Any specific reason you are singling out Brazil? You could ask the same question of virtually any nation. Each has a unique history, culture, natural resources, and type of government et al....

Brazil has a huge have/have not disparity - true of most South American nations. At present, it has a huge debt load (not the worst but significant if I remember correctly). Lots of natural resources but most of the nations wealth is held by only a relatively few people/land owners.

Possible reasons: Not in the right place at the right time (an amazing amount of political history amounts to this); Monroe Doctrine; Kinda tough to be a world power when civil war/guerrilla war is a national hobby; Insufficient economic strength (largely tied to lack of incentive - see above); Never ruled by a homicidal maniac (visa vie Stalin or Mao); They speak Spanish (which has nothing to do with anything but it sounded kinda funny); the sugar market tanked before they could become a world power (some truth to that); they don't wanna (?) ....

Anything in particular you want to discuss? Okay, that's enough for you to make fun of me as it is. I'd need a clear idea of what you want to do effective research - I'm not writing a dissertation - you aren't that cute! :wink:

[D. Medvedev Fan]

Er, not a whole lot. Any specific reason you are singling out Brazil?
It's really big and China is really big and I didn't know why they were different.

you aren't that cute! :wink:
:stunned: :frown: :idea: :bunny: :flowers: :bunny:

I'm not looking for a dissertation level answer, just some general ideas, kind of like your last post gives.

[learning]

They speak Portuguese, and there are a lot of Japanese there too, I found out. Sao Paulo has over 1 million Japanese there, largest group outside of Japan in a city, I've heard.

I don't know exactly what you mean by 'super power' but I know Canada is concerned with economic ties with Brazil, trade, etc.

[Teallaura]

It's really big and China is really big and I didn't know why they were different.
Well, Honey, lots of nations are big geographically without being considered a world power in the same manner of the US, the USSR or China. Canada, Australia and Mexico are huge geographically but not 'world powers' in that particular vein (I'm gonna get flack here, I just know it. :sigh:) In terms of the USSR and China, both nations spent tremendous amounts of their economic capital to gain that 'world power' status (i.e. military build up) that a more democratic government couldn't have mustered (internal political pressure comes to bear in democracies when you try to spend food money on guns - in totalitarian regimes, such annoying complainers are shot). Brazil is hardly a model democracy (it's socialist if I'm not mistaken) but its government has been somewhat more responsive to the needs of its people than say Mao or Stalin. The US had (and still has) such a powerful economy that we've rarely faced anything like the food or guns choice (the closest would be the rationing in WWII). Plus, in a capitalist economy, military build up tends to have a positive economic impact (more jobs mean more money to spend on other things which creates other jobs - incentive pay only adds to the cycle) whereas in a communist system the benefits (if any) are muted (in a planned economy there are no resources put into consumer goods while building up militarily - new jobs translate into more money but nothing to spend it on, ergo no other new jobs are created - and there are no incentives to innovate).


:stunned: :frown: :idea: :bunny: :flowers: :bunny:

I'm not looking for a dissertation level answer, just some general ideas, kind of like your last post gives. It's hard to give general ideas when you aren't sure what you're answering. And you are cute (just not that cute! :wink:) :flowers:

[Teallaura]

They speak Portuguese, and there are a lot of Japanese there too, I found out. Sao Paulo has over 1 million Japanese there, largest group outside of Japan in a city, I've heard.

I don't know exactly what you mean by 'super power' but I know Canada is concerned with economic ties with Brazil, trade, etc.Opps, I stand corrected - Portuguese. :blush:

[Superbug]

Kinda tough to be a world power when civil war/guerrilla war is a national hobby;

No, I don't think we had lots of civil wars and guerrillas. We had some local conflicts. I can't remember their names...


Insufficient economic strength (largely tied to lack of incentive - see above);


Yes, not so long ago only agriculture got any public incentive. The farmers practically were the government. They could get whoever they wanted for president. Coffee-and-Milk Republic, it was called. When manufacturing industry became the most important economical activity ours was very underdeveloped. And a long time ago when we were still a Portuguese colony, Brazil was just a very large sugar cane plantation.


Never ruled by a homicidal maniac (visa vie Stalin or Mao);


Maybe they were not homicidal maniacs but we had a series of pretty bad military dictators. They were not as bad as Stalin and Mao but lots of people were tortured and killed or had to leave the country. I was born during one of the last military mandates and when I was about 10 we had our first democratic election in decades.

They were not communists. They were more to the right (like Hitler and Mussolini, not Stalin and Mao).


They speak Spanish (which has nothing to do with anything but it sounded kinda funny);


Portuguese. :teeth:


the sugar market tanked before they could become a world power (some truth to that);


We also had success with coffee after the sugar market tanked.

Brazil is hardly a model democracy (it's socialist if I'm not mistaken)

No, it's not.

[Ryokan]

Why isn't Brazil a greater world power?
Several reasons: A very pro-agriculturist governmental philosophy. A history riddled with crummy dictator's. Rain Forests made infrastructure developement difficult. US interference. And they had a Native problem for a long time. And really, Portuguese? Come on! ;)

[Teallaura]

Hi!
This is one of the dangers of only giving general answers - you end up with foot-in-mouth disease!

No, I don't think we had lots of civil wars and guerrillas. We had some local conflicts. I can't remember their names... More than most stable governments and enough to disrupt the sort of advancement that Joan was interested in, in my opinion, but I concede not nearly as many as other nations in the region.


Yes, not so long ago only agriculture got any public incentive. The farmers practically were the government. They could get whoever they wanted for president. Coffee-and-Milk Republic, it was called. When manufacturing industry became the most important economical activity ours was very underdeveloped. And a long time ago when we were still a Portuguese colony, Brazil was just a very large sugar cane plantation. Nice to get something right! :smile:



Maybe they were not homicidal maniacs but we had a series of pretty bad military dictators. They were not as bad as Stalin and Mao but lots of people were tortured and killed or had to leave the country. I was born during one of the last military mandates and when I was about 10 we had our first democratic election in decades. I had in mind more those whose ambitions tended to spread outside their own borders - and I concede Brazil has had dictators, just not the 'take over, invade everybody else' sort - at least not that did so sucessfully.

They were not communists. They were more to the right (like Hitler and Mussolini, not Stalin and Mao).Granted, but I had international aggression more in view - sorry, didn't make that clear.


Portuguese. :teeth: Picky, picky.... And I already apologized above. :blush:



We also had success with coffee after the sugar market tanked. Yes, I remember. Brazil is far from the bottom of the barrel in terms of international standing and economics - but nasty blows to your major (nearly only at one time) industry do tend to hurt economically and keep military spending down (not out, just down).



No, it's not. Not a socialism? Okay, I wasn't sure.

[Superbug]

More than most stable governments and enough to disrupt the sort of advancement that Joan was interested in, in my opinion, but I concede not nearly as many as other nations in the region.

But I'm still surprised you wrote that. There were no guerrillas since I was born and my parents only witnessed the worst of the military dictatorship but no guerrillas either. I always had the impression that all the conflicts happened a long time ago. Maybe you were talking about people fighting for land, they are called "the landless." Some families in Brazil own huge pieces of land (called latifundium) and don't do anything with them. The landless invade farms and claim the land for them.

[Teallaura]

But I'm still surprised you wrote that. There were no guerrillas since I was born and my parents only witnessed the worst of the military dictatorship but no guerrillas either. I always had the impression that all the conflicts happened a long time ago. Maybe you were talking about people fighting for land, they are called "the landless." Some families in Brazil own huge pieces of land (called latifundium) and don't do anything with them. The landless invade farms and claim the land for them.
Hi!
I had a longer time frame in mind. The current and former super powers didn't emerge in the last fifty years - more like sixty to one hundred. I'm under the impression that there was sufficient guerrilla activity/ internal conflict to keep a government’s attention focused inward instead of outward in Brazil in that time frame.

That said, looking over my original comment, it's overblown. Calling it a 'national hobby' is too strong - and has more to do with my runaway dry sense of humor than good analysis (and is an excellent reason to get sleep before doing anything requiring conscious thought! :wink: ). I do think internal strife limited the scope of Brazil's international influence to a degree (as it has in many nations) but I overstated it. Apologies.

Okay, I think I've had my daily allowance of crow... I'm eventually going to learn not to answer Joan's broad scope questions! Later!

[Superbug]

I didn't feel insulted, no need to apologize. I was just surprised because I would have never considered Brazil a country prone to guerrilla activity.

[CatholicSage]

Brazil has never been in a "necessity is the mother of invention" situation in its history; to clarify, I mean that it has never had great external pressures like the US had (WWI, WWII, Cold War) to cause it to become a huge power. Its last major war was about 130 years ago (I believe) against Paraguay, and even its independence from Portugal was pretty bloodless. It has developed at a pace that meets the conditions of the environment and climate.

Brazil is getting more powerful, though, and it and Japan are giving each other mutual support in a bid to become permanent members of the UN Security Council (which I support).