How do preterists interpret 1 Thess 4:16-17?

[TuckEverlasting]

1 Thess 4.16-17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/index.php?search=1%20thess%204.16-17&version=31):

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

What do you think this refers to if you don't believe in a rapture?

[dizzle]

The general resurrection. What the church has pretty consistently interpretered as until relatively recently.

[TuckEverlasting]

:cool:

[wfaber]

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 talks about the last trumpet call, when the dead shall rise and those who are alive will be changed. Likewise John 6:39-54 quotes Jesus as talking about raising up believers on the last day. I would take all these verses to mean just that: that the Lord will return some day, the final day of the human race, to raise the dead and take those believers who are alive up into the air with Him.

Mark 13:24-32 tells us the same thing, but in a slightly different way, that He would send His angels to gather the elect from the uttermost parts of the earth. He didn't say when this would happen, but said that even He did not know (v. 32), only that it would occur sometime after the tribulation that took place in AD 70. So far, that has been 1,935 years and still counting. (2 Peter 3:3-10 hints that this might be the case.)

I think Paul, in including himself with the pronoun "we" in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 and 1 Corinthians 15:51, had no concept of how many years would take place before the Lord's return. It might not even be for another two thousand years.

[TuckEverlasting]

Thanks. :smile:

[Xmansmommy]

So any and all saints that have died from A&E till that time are soul sleeping?

[dizzle]

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 talks about the last trumpet call, when the dead shall rise and those who are alive will be changed. Likewise John 6:39-54 quotes Jesus as talking about raising up believers on the last day. I would take all these verses to mean just that: that the Lord will return some day, the final day of the human race, to raise the dead and take those believers who are alive up into the air with Him.

Yep.



Mark 13:24-32 tells us the same thing, but in a slightly different way, that He would send His angels to gather the elect from the uttermost parts of the earth. He didn't say when this would happen, but said that even He did not know (v. 32), only that it would occur sometime after the tribulation that took place in AD 70. So far, that has been 1,935 years and still counting. (2 Peter 3:3-10 hints that this might be the case.)


I have a different take on this passage as not referring to the resurrection at all - but simply gathering the body as one - the grafting into the olive tree. THAT has been ongoing.


I think Paul, in including himself with the pronoun "we" in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 and 1 Corinthians 15:51, had no concept of how many years would take place before the Lord's return. It might not even be for another two thousand years.

Could be, and I think Paul had a very good idea that it would be a long time, but I see the "we" differently as Paul used "we" to simply refer to Christians - wherever, whenever.

[Hitch]

1 Thess 4.16-17 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/index.php?search=1%20thess%204.16-17&version=31):

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

What do you think this refers to if you don't believe in a rapture?John 6;39.

[Etcetera]

I think Paul, in including himself with the pronoun "we" in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 and 1 Corinthians 15:51, had no concept of how many years would take place before the Lord's return. It might not even be for another two thousand years.

Could be, and I think Paul had a very good idea that it would be a long time, but I see the "we" differently as Paul used "we" to simply refer to Christians - wherever, whenever.

I have never understood that latter reading of Paul. If Paul was not using imminence language (both here and in a dozen other verses), then there is no such thing as imminence language.

Wfahber has it right. Paul did not know, so he played it safe by putting himself in the category of the living. Later on, in later writings, he suspects or even knows that he is going to die soon, so he puts himself in the category of the dead.

Etcetera.