Jack777
February 25th 2005, 01:12 PM
Someone said that Darwin was a deist and that is fine. He has quite a few fans I see. What does it matter if we do not think God created as He says he did in the Bible? It matters a lot. It also has warrant in the Apocrypha. The idea that God slumbers and is inactive in the affairs of men having set things in motion is a foolish consistency, a hobgoblin of little minds, clinging to the hope that the Christian God slumbers and never sees. Scripture informs us otherwise and for those who perish this is foolishness to them. They do not see God as active in the lives of people and teach others not to see God as active in the everyday world. This idea is a lie and provides the basis for delusion. God is active in every believer that looks first to Him, seeks His Kingdom and His Righteousness. He is Righteousness.
The statement was made that the Creator and the fact that God is Creator was not very important to people in ancient times, nor to the early believers of the Ekklesia. Historically, the story of the Creation of the Universe has been of primary importance to people who are called by His Name. One Theistic Evolutionist said that my posts are drivel. These things are an indication of the erosive effects of Theistic Evolution on Faith. Cosmogony relates to the Creation of the Universe and there are creation stories in every culture of the world. If religions have anything in common at all, it is the fact that people have stories about the Creation and how it came about. The Hindu have stories and symbolism surrounding how the world came into being. The symbols show evidence of influence from Akkadia, Ugarit, Sumer, Phoenicia, and Israel. Noticeably, Theistic Evolution tends to de-emphasize Genesis 1:1 and some think that Genesis 1:1 could be removed from the Bible and it not matter. Ironically, it is the Torah, the Pentateuch that is unique of the story of Creation that states that it was Elohiym that created the Universe in the pre-incarnate Christ. Within the first two verses of the Bible the Holy Spirit is introduced as well as the Father and the Son. The Apocrypha as translated in the King James Authorized Version is presented with some of the verses that indicate the early believers that read these Scriptures must have known the Creator is important.
Which spake but the WORD, Let the earth be made; and it was made: Let the heaven be made; and it was created. In his WORD were the stars made, and he knoweth the number of them. He searcheth the deep, and the treasures thereof; he hath measured the sea, and what it containeth. He hath shut the sea in the midst of the waters, and with his WORD hath he hanged the earth upon the waters. He spreadeth out the heavens like a vault; upon the waters hath he founded it. In the desert hath he made springs of water, and pools upon the tops of the mountains, that the floods might pour down from the high rocks to water the earth. He made man, and put his heart in the midst of the body, and gave him breath, life, and understanding. Yea, and the Spirit of Almighty God, which made all things, and searcheth out all hidden things in the secrets of the earth, Surely he knoweth your inventions, and what ye think in your hearts, even them that sin, and would hide their sin. Therefore hath the Lord exactly searched out all your works, and he will put you all to shame. And when your sins are brought forth, ye shall be ashamed before men, and your own sins shall be your accusers in that day. What will ye do? or how will ye hide your sins before God and his angels? Behold, God himself is the judge, fear him: leave off from your sins, and forget your iniquities, to meddle no more with them for ever: so shall God lead you forth, and deliver you from all trouble.
II Esdras 16:55-67
Take heaven and earth to witness; for I have broken the evil in pieces, and created the good: for I live, saith the Lord.
II Esdras 2:14
And said, O Lord that bearest rule, of every wood of the earth, and of all the trees thereof, thou hast chosen thee one only vine: And of all lands of the whole world thou hast chosen thee one pit: and of all the flowers thereof one lily: And of all the depths of the sea thou hast filled thee one river: and of all builded cities thou hast hallowed Sion unto thyself: And of all the fowls that are created thou hast named thee one dove: and of all the cattle that are made thou hast provided thee one sheep: And among all the multitudes of people thou hast gotten thee one people: and unto this people, whom thou lovedst, thou gavest a law that is approved of all.
II Esdras 5:23-27
Then answered he me, and said, The creature may not haste above the maker; neither may the world hold them at once that shall be created therein.
And I said, As thou hast said unto thy servant, that thou, which givest life to all, hast given life at once to the creature that thou hast created, and the creature bare it: even so it might now also bear them that now be present at once.
II Esdras 5:44-45
Then said he unto me, Even so have I given the womb of the earth to those that be sown in it in their times. For like as a young child may not bring forth the things that belong to the aged, even so have I disposed the world which I created.
II Esdras 5:48-49
And he answered me, saying, The most High hath made this world for many, but the world to come for few. I will tell thee a similitude, Esdras; As when thou askest the earth, it shall say unto thee, that it giveth much mould whereof earthen vessels are made, but little dust that gold cometh of: even so is the course of this present world. There be many created, but few shall be saved.
II Esdras 8:1-3
For when the body is fashioned now in the mother’s womb, and thou givest it members, thy creature is preserved in fire and water, and nine months doth thy workmanship endure thy creature which is created in her.
II Esdras 8:8
For as the things aforesaid shalt receive you, so thirst and pain are prepared for them: for it was not his will that men should come to nought: But they which be created have defiled the name of him that made them, and were unthankful unto him which prepared life for them. And therefore is my judgment now at hand. These things have I not shewed unto all men, but unto thee, and a few like thee. Then answered I and said, Behold, O Lord, now hast thou shewed me the multitude of the wonders, which thou wilt begin to do in the last times: but at what time, thou hast not shewed me.
II Esdras 8:59-63
And therefore be thou not curious how the ungodly shall be punished, and when: but enquire how the righteous shall be saved, whose the world is, and for whom the world is created.
II Esdras 9:13
And he answered me, saying, Like as the field is, so is also the seed; as the flowers be, such are the colours also; such as the workman is, such also is the work; and as the husbandman is himself, so is his husbandry also: for it was the time of the world. And now when I prepared the world, which was not yet made, even for them to dwell in that now live, no man spake against me. For then every one obeyed: but now the manners of them which are created in this world that is made are corrupted by a perpetual seed, and by a law which is unsearchable rid themselves. So I considered the world, and, behold, there was peril because of the devices that were come into it.
II Esdras 9:17-20
Then said Ozias unto her, O daughter, blessed art thou of the most high God above all the women upon the earth; and blessed be the Lord God, which hath created the heavens and the earth, which hath directed thee to the cutting off of the head of the chief of our enemies.
Judith 13:18
Let all creatures serve thee: for thou spakest, and they were made, thou didst send forth thy spirit, and it created them, and there is none that can resist thy voice. For the mountains shall be moved from their foundations with the waters, the rocks shall melt as wax at thy presence: yet thou art merciful to them that fear thee.
Judith 16:14-15
Seek not death in the error of your life: and pull not upon yourselves destruction with the works of your hands. For God made not death: neither hath he pleasure in the destruction of the living. 14 For he created all things, that they might have their being: and the generations of the world were healthful; and there is no poison of destruction in them, nor the kingdom of death upon the earth: For righteousness is immortal:
But ungodly men with their works and words called it to them: for when they thought to have it their friend, they consumed to nought, and made a covenant with it, because they are worthy to take part with it.
Wisdom 1:12-16
For God created man to be immortal, and made him to be an image of his own eternity. Nevertheless through envy of the devil came death into the world: and they that do hold of his side do find it.
Wisdom 2:23-24
And thy counsel who hath known, except thou give wisdom, and send thy Holy Spirit from above? For so the ways of them which lived on the earth were reformed, and men were taught the things that are pleasing unto thee, and were saved through wisdom. She preserved the first formed father of the world, that was createdalone, and brought him out of his fall, And gave him power to rule all things. But when the unrighteous went away from her in his anger, he perished also in the fury wherewith he murdered his brother. For whose cause the earth being drowned with the flood, wisdom again preserved it, and directed the course of the righteous in a piece of wood of small value.
Wisdom 9:17-18, 10:1-4
Surely vain are all men by nature, who are ignorant of God, and could not out of the good things that are seen know him that is: neither by considering the works did they acknowledge the workmaster; But deemed either fire, or wind, or the swift air, or the circle of the stars, or the violent water, or the lights of heaven, to be the gods which govern the world. With whose beauty if they being delighted took them to be gods; let them know how much better the Lord of them is: for the first author of beauty hath created them. But if they were astonished at their power and virtue, let them understand by them, how much mightier he is that made them. For by the greatness and beauty of the creatures proportionably the Maker of them is seen. But yet for this they are the less to be blamed: for they peradventure err, seeking God, and desirous to find him. For being conversant in his works they search him diligently, and believe their sight: because the things are beautiful that are seen.
Wisdom 13:1-7
All wisdom cometh from the Lord, and is with him for ever. Who can number the sand of the sea, and the drops of rain, and the days of eternity? Who can find out the height of heaven, and the breadth of the earth, and the deep, and wisdom? Wisdom hath been created before all things, and the understanding of prudence from everlasting. The word of God most high is the fountain of wisdom; and her ways are everlasting commandments. To whom hath the root of wisdom been revealed? or who hath known her wise counsels? There is one wise and greatly to be feared, the Lord sitting upon his throne. He created her, and saw her, and numbered her, and poured her out upon all his works. She is with all flesh according to his gift, and he hath given her to them that love him.
Sirach 1:1-10
To fear the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and it was created with the faithful in the womb. She hath built an everlasting foundation with men, and she shall continue with their seed. To fear the Lord is fulness of wisdom, and filleth men with her fruits. She filleth all their house with things desirable, and the garners with her increase. The fear of the Lord is a crown of wisdom, making peace and perfect health to flourish; both which are the gifts of God: and it enlargeth their rejoicing that love him. Wisdom raineth down skill and knowledge of understanding, and exalteth them to honour that hold her fast. The root of wisdom is to fear the Lord, and the branches thereof are long life. The fear of the Lord driveth away sins: and where it is present, it turneth away wrath.
Sirach 1:14-21
The Lord created man of the earth, and turned him into it again. He gave them few days, and a short time, and power also over the things therein. He endued them with strength by themselves, and made them according to his image
Sirach 17:1
He that liveth for ever created all things in general. The Lord only is righteous, and there is none other but he, Who governeth the world with the palm of his hand, and all things obey his will: for he is the King of all, by his power dividing holy things among them from profane. To whom hath he given power to declare his works? and who shall find out his noble acts? Who shall number the strength of his majesty? and who shall also tell out his mercies? As for the wondrous works of the Lord, there may nothing be taken from them, neither may any thing be put unto them, neither can the ground of them be found out.
Sirach 18:1-6
Such a man only feareth the eyes of men, and knoweth not that the eyes of the Lord are ten thousand times brighter than the sun, beholding all the ways of men, and considering the most secret parts. He knew all things ere ever they were created; so also after they were perfected he looked upon them all.
Sirach 23:19-20
So the Creator of all things gave me a commandment, and he that made me caused my tabernacle to rest, and said, Let thy dwelling be in Jacob, and thine inheritance in Israel. He created me from the beginning before the world, and I shall never fail.
Sirach 24:8
Remember that a wicked [u]eye is an evil thing: and what is createdmore wicked than an eye?
Sirach 31:13
And all men are from the ground, and Adam was created of earth: In much knowledge the Lord hath divided them, and made their ways diverse. Some of them hath he blessed and exalted, and some of them he sanctified, and set near himself: but some of them hath he cursed and brought low, and turned out of their places. As the clay is in the potter’s hand, to fashion it at his pleasure: so man is in the hand of him that made him, to render to them as liketh him best.
Good is set against evil, and life against death: so is the godly against the sinner, and the sinner against the godly. So look upon all the works of the most High; and there are two and two, one against another.
Sirach 33:10-15
The statement was made that the Creator and the fact that God is Creator was not very important to people in ancient times, nor to the early believers of the Ekklesia. Historically, the story of the Creation of the Universe has been of primary importance to people who are called by His Name. One Theistic Evolutionist said that my posts are drivel. These things are an indication of the erosive effects of Theistic Evolution on Faith. Cosmogony relates to the Creation of the Universe and there are creation stories in every culture of the world. If religions have anything in common at all, it is the fact that people have stories about the Creation and how it came about. The Hindu have stories and symbolism surrounding how the world came into being. The symbols show evidence of influence from Akkadia, Ugarit, Sumer, Phoenicia, and Israel. Noticeably, Theistic Evolution tends to de-emphasize Genesis 1:1 and some think that Genesis 1:1 could be removed from the Bible and it not matter. Ironically, it is the Torah, the Pentateuch that is unique of the story of Creation that states that it was Elohiym that created the Universe in the pre-incarnate Christ. Within the first two verses of the Bible the Holy Spirit is introduced as well as the Father and the Son. The Apocrypha as translated in the King James Authorized Version is presented with some of the verses that indicate the early believers that read these Scriptures must have known the Creator is important.
Which spake but the WORD, Let the earth be made; and it was made: Let the heaven be made; and it was created. In his WORD were the stars made, and he knoweth the number of them. He searcheth the deep, and the treasures thereof; he hath measured the sea, and what it containeth. He hath shut the sea in the midst of the waters, and with his WORD hath he hanged the earth upon the waters. He spreadeth out the heavens like a vault; upon the waters hath he founded it. In the desert hath he made springs of water, and pools upon the tops of the mountains, that the floods might pour down from the high rocks to water the earth. He made man, and put his heart in the midst of the body, and gave him breath, life, and understanding. Yea, and the Spirit of Almighty God, which made all things, and searcheth out all hidden things in the secrets of the earth, Surely he knoweth your inventions, and what ye think in your hearts, even them that sin, and would hide their sin. Therefore hath the Lord exactly searched out all your works, and he will put you all to shame. And when your sins are brought forth, ye shall be ashamed before men, and your own sins shall be your accusers in that day. What will ye do? or how will ye hide your sins before God and his angels? Behold, God himself is the judge, fear him: leave off from your sins, and forget your iniquities, to meddle no more with them for ever: so shall God lead you forth, and deliver you from all trouble.
II Esdras 16:55-67
Take heaven and earth to witness; for I have broken the evil in pieces, and created the good: for I live, saith the Lord.
II Esdras 2:14
And said, O Lord that bearest rule, of every wood of the earth, and of all the trees thereof, thou hast chosen thee one only vine: And of all lands of the whole world thou hast chosen thee one pit: and of all the flowers thereof one lily: And of all the depths of the sea thou hast filled thee one river: and of all builded cities thou hast hallowed Sion unto thyself: And of all the fowls that are created thou hast named thee one dove: and of all the cattle that are made thou hast provided thee one sheep: And among all the multitudes of people thou hast gotten thee one people: and unto this people, whom thou lovedst, thou gavest a law that is approved of all.
II Esdras 5:23-27
Then answered he me, and said, The creature may not haste above the maker; neither may the world hold them at once that shall be created therein.
And I said, As thou hast said unto thy servant, that thou, which givest life to all, hast given life at once to the creature that thou hast created, and the creature bare it: even so it might now also bear them that now be present at once.
II Esdras 5:44-45
Then said he unto me, Even so have I given the womb of the earth to those that be sown in it in their times. For like as a young child may not bring forth the things that belong to the aged, even so have I disposed the world which I created.
II Esdras 5:48-49
And he answered me, saying, The most High hath made this world for many, but the world to come for few. I will tell thee a similitude, Esdras; As when thou askest the earth, it shall say unto thee, that it giveth much mould whereof earthen vessels are made, but little dust that gold cometh of: even so is the course of this present world. There be many created, but few shall be saved.
II Esdras 8:1-3
For when the body is fashioned now in the mother’s womb, and thou givest it members, thy creature is preserved in fire and water, and nine months doth thy workmanship endure thy creature which is created in her.
II Esdras 8:8
For as the things aforesaid shalt receive you, so thirst and pain are prepared for them: for it was not his will that men should come to nought: But they which be created have defiled the name of him that made them, and were unthankful unto him which prepared life for them. And therefore is my judgment now at hand. These things have I not shewed unto all men, but unto thee, and a few like thee. Then answered I and said, Behold, O Lord, now hast thou shewed me the multitude of the wonders, which thou wilt begin to do in the last times: but at what time, thou hast not shewed me.
II Esdras 8:59-63
And therefore be thou not curious how the ungodly shall be punished, and when: but enquire how the righteous shall be saved, whose the world is, and for whom the world is created.
II Esdras 9:13
And he answered me, saying, Like as the field is, so is also the seed; as the flowers be, such are the colours also; such as the workman is, such also is the work; and as the husbandman is himself, so is his husbandry also: for it was the time of the world. And now when I prepared the world, which was not yet made, even for them to dwell in that now live, no man spake against me. For then every one obeyed: but now the manners of them which are created in this world that is made are corrupted by a perpetual seed, and by a law which is unsearchable rid themselves. So I considered the world, and, behold, there was peril because of the devices that were come into it.
II Esdras 9:17-20
Then said Ozias unto her, O daughter, blessed art thou of the most high God above all the women upon the earth; and blessed be the Lord God, which hath created the heavens and the earth, which hath directed thee to the cutting off of the head of the chief of our enemies.
Judith 13:18
Let all creatures serve thee: for thou spakest, and they were made, thou didst send forth thy spirit, and it created them, and there is none that can resist thy voice. For the mountains shall be moved from their foundations with the waters, the rocks shall melt as wax at thy presence: yet thou art merciful to them that fear thee.
Judith 16:14-15
Seek not death in the error of your life: and pull not upon yourselves destruction with the works of your hands. For God made not death: neither hath he pleasure in the destruction of the living. 14 For he created all things, that they might have their being: and the generations of the world were healthful; and there is no poison of destruction in them, nor the kingdom of death upon the earth: For righteousness is immortal:
But ungodly men with their works and words called it to them: for when they thought to have it their friend, they consumed to nought, and made a covenant with it, because they are worthy to take part with it.
Wisdom 1:12-16
For God created man to be immortal, and made him to be an image of his own eternity. Nevertheless through envy of the devil came death into the world: and they that do hold of his side do find it.
Wisdom 2:23-24
And thy counsel who hath known, except thou give wisdom, and send thy Holy Spirit from above? For so the ways of them which lived on the earth were reformed, and men were taught the things that are pleasing unto thee, and were saved through wisdom. She preserved the first formed father of the world, that was createdalone, and brought him out of his fall, And gave him power to rule all things. But when the unrighteous went away from her in his anger, he perished also in the fury wherewith he murdered his brother. For whose cause the earth being drowned with the flood, wisdom again preserved it, and directed the course of the righteous in a piece of wood of small value.
Wisdom 9:17-18, 10:1-4
Surely vain are all men by nature, who are ignorant of God, and could not out of the good things that are seen know him that is: neither by considering the works did they acknowledge the workmaster; But deemed either fire, or wind, or the swift air, or the circle of the stars, or the violent water, or the lights of heaven, to be the gods which govern the world. With whose beauty if they being delighted took them to be gods; let them know how much better the Lord of them is: for the first author of beauty hath created them. But if they were astonished at their power and virtue, let them understand by them, how much mightier he is that made them. For by the greatness and beauty of the creatures proportionably the Maker of them is seen. But yet for this they are the less to be blamed: for they peradventure err, seeking God, and desirous to find him. For being conversant in his works they search him diligently, and believe their sight: because the things are beautiful that are seen.
Wisdom 13:1-7
All wisdom cometh from the Lord, and is with him for ever. Who can number the sand of the sea, and the drops of rain, and the days of eternity? Who can find out the height of heaven, and the breadth of the earth, and the deep, and wisdom? Wisdom hath been created before all things, and the understanding of prudence from everlasting. The word of God most high is the fountain of wisdom; and her ways are everlasting commandments. To whom hath the root of wisdom been revealed? or who hath known her wise counsels? There is one wise and greatly to be feared, the Lord sitting upon his throne. He created her, and saw her, and numbered her, and poured her out upon all his works. She is with all flesh according to his gift, and he hath given her to them that love him.
Sirach 1:1-10
To fear the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and it was created with the faithful in the womb. She hath built an everlasting foundation with men, and she shall continue with their seed. To fear the Lord is fulness of wisdom, and filleth men with her fruits. She filleth all their house with things desirable, and the garners with her increase. The fear of the Lord is a crown of wisdom, making peace and perfect health to flourish; both which are the gifts of God: and it enlargeth their rejoicing that love him. Wisdom raineth down skill and knowledge of understanding, and exalteth them to honour that hold her fast. The root of wisdom is to fear the Lord, and the branches thereof are long life. The fear of the Lord driveth away sins: and where it is present, it turneth away wrath.
Sirach 1:14-21
The Lord created man of the earth, and turned him into it again. He gave them few days, and a short time, and power also over the things therein. He endued them with strength by themselves, and made them according to his image
Sirach 17:1
He that liveth for ever created all things in general. The Lord only is righteous, and there is none other but he, Who governeth the world with the palm of his hand, and all things obey his will: for he is the King of all, by his power dividing holy things among them from profane. To whom hath he given power to declare his works? and who shall find out his noble acts? Who shall number the strength of his majesty? and who shall also tell out his mercies? As for the wondrous works of the Lord, there may nothing be taken from them, neither may any thing be put unto them, neither can the ground of them be found out.
Sirach 18:1-6
Such a man only feareth the eyes of men, and knoweth not that the eyes of the Lord are ten thousand times brighter than the sun, beholding all the ways of men, and considering the most secret parts. He knew all things ere ever they were created; so also after they were perfected he looked upon them all.
Sirach 23:19-20
So the Creator of all things gave me a commandment, and he that made me caused my tabernacle to rest, and said, Let thy dwelling be in Jacob, and thine inheritance in Israel. He created me from the beginning before the world, and I shall never fail.
Sirach 24:8
Remember that a wicked [u]eye is an evil thing: and what is createdmore wicked than an eye?
Sirach 31:13
And all men are from the ground, and Adam was created of earth: In much knowledge the Lord hath divided them, and made their ways diverse. Some of them hath he blessed and exalted, and some of them he sanctified, and set near himself: but some of them hath he cursed and brought low, and turned out of their places. As the clay is in the potter’s hand, to fashion it at his pleasure: so man is in the hand of him that made him, to render to them as liketh him best.
Good is set against evil, and life against death: so is the godly against the sinner, and the sinner against the godly. So look upon all the works of the most High; and there are two and two, one against another.
Sirach 33:10-15