Wicca is a Cult?

[technomage]

The Accusations

"The wicca, witchcraft movement seeks to pervert our children and young people's minds OFF OF GOD, JESUS CHRIST, AND Christianity onto the DANGEROUS and OCCULTIC activities of witchcraft. This occultic propaganda is being fed to naive young people all over America through television, movies, the internet, even on college campuses and universities. THE BIG LIE is witchcraft is a religion you design yourself. Choose your deity, choose your rituals, choose your rules. It is an ANYTHING GOES line of hooey that on the surface sounds good and positive to young people. Many are persuaded into this CULT MOVEMENT by those promoting it as an ALTERNATIVE to Christianity." 1 (All emphasis in the original.)

Roots of the Accusations

Oddly enough, I have seen far more Wiccan books, papers, and web-sites that defended against this accusation than I have seen literature or sites that promoted it. We, as Wiccans, seem to be far more ready to counter such a statement than Christians and others seek to make it. Nonetheless, this is a story that is told about Wicca, and needs to be addressed.

One of the foundational roots of this particular accusation is Gerald Gardner's own writing, where he repeatedly refers to Wicca (spelled "Wica") as the "witch cult." 2 In this, he borrowed directly from the scholarly works of Margaret Murray, who's original book on the topic, The Witch-Cult in Western Europe, established the word firmly in the mind of the popular press--and later, of the practitioners. At Gardner's use of the word, the press followed suit, and the words "Wicca" and "cult" were intertwined.

At this time, however, it must be remembered that the word "cult" simply meant "the persons and rites associated with an object of worship or veneration." 3 While the word did not have the same connotation as "church," it lacked the stigma of the harmful or destructive cults popularized in the 1960s, 70s, and 80s. During this time--especially with Charles Manson and the Tate-Bianca murders, tales of "brainwashing" by the Unification Church and other groups, and the mass suicide of Jonestown--the word "cult" came to have several darker images associated with it.


It has been noticed that, due to these negative connotations, the word cult is now more of a slur or "snarl word" than a useful identifier. 4


Defense Against the Accusations

This is a somewhat difficult accusation to defend against, depending on your definition of the word "cult." If you follow the strict dictionary definition, then "cult" becomes a relatively innocuous word. But with the advent of destructive cults (and increased media awareness of the issue), "cult" became a "snarl word"--a word with negative connotations that can be used to twist a person's perception of the group that the label is applied to.

Reasons for the Accusations

This accusation is rooted in fear that some Christians have for Wicca, and the desire to control. This case is a bit different, so we will discuss the two sources separately.

This is the third accusation that I have said was rooted in fear, (See Wiccans are Satanists? (http://showthread.php?t=45323) and Wiccans Use Ritualized Abuse and Sacrifice in their Rituals? (http://showthread.php?t=47960)) but unlike the others, this one does have a reasonable foundation. Many of the Christians say that they fear Wicca are deeply and honestly concerned for the souls of Wiccans, other Christians, and their own children. According to their beliefs, we not only endanger our "eternal souls," but also the souls of those who may fall under the sway of Wicca. Many of them do not even believe that we are evil, but that we may be "deceived by Satan." (Galatians 5:19, among others.) Such fears are very real, even if they are based on false information.

However, this is also the third accusation that is rooted in the desire to control. These rumors were all originated by self-identified Christians, some of whom know that the rumors are false (or, at the very least, that their sources are unreliable). These "Christians" have deliberately turned a blind eye to any contrary evidence, or have simply ignored evidence because it did not support their thesis. They then use the rumors as propaganda to try to sway the behavior of other Christians. In cases like these, the rumors were not put forth so much to slander Wiccans as they were to gain influence over other Christians--even the momentary influence to persuade the targeted Christians to purchase their books or other material.

Refutation of the Accusations

It must be remembered that, in the actual, dictionary definition of the word, Wicca IS a "cult." Wicca is an organized set of religious beliefs: contrary to Ritchie's accusations, this is not a bad thing in and of itself. Of course, most Christians will disagree--but by the definition above, Christianity is also a cult.

This accusation is difficult--if not impossible--to refute, because Christians and Wiccans tend to use different definitions for the word "cult." However, there are several specific behaviors that have been associated to the more negative definitions of the word. Comparing Wiccan or Neo-Pagan groups to Isaac Bonewits's "Advanced Bonewits Cult Danger Evaluation Frame (http://www.neopagan.net/ABCDEF.HTML)" can provide a relevant basis for looking for dangerous behavior, rather than dangerous labels.

There will be Wiccan groups that have a dangerously high score in the frame: just as some Christian groups engage in dangerous, controlling behavior, there have been some Wiccan groups who are far more interested in power over people than in exploring the Wiccan mysteries. I would strongly recommend using the Cult Danger Evaluation Frame for ANY religious group that one was seriously considering.


1: Ritchie, Tammy. "Perilous Times (http://web.archive.org/web/20010413015500/http://www.sounddoctrine.com/ptimes/sayno.htm)" website. This website is no longer on line, but is in the WayBack archive.
2: Gardner, Gerald. Witchcraft Today. Lakemont, GA: Magickal Childe, 1954; 1988 edition, and The Meaning of Witchcraft. Lakemont, GA US: Copple House Books, 1959; 1988 edition. Passim, but see especially Witchcraft Today, pp 28-29, 51, 122.
3: New American Webster Handy College Dictionary. New York: Signet Reference, 1995.
4: http://www.religioustolerance.org/cultmenu.htm

[Minnesota]

I met Bonewits when he was in Minneapolis and working for Carl Weschcke at Llewellyn Publications. Nice guy and very dedicated, maybe a bit too intense though.

[Pilgrim]

The Accusations

"The wicca, witchcraft movement seeks to pervert our children and young people's minds OFF OF GOD, JESUS CHRIST, AND Christianity onto the DANGEROUS and OCCULTIC activities of witchcraft. This occultic propaganda is being fed to naive young people all over America through television, movies, the internet, even on college campuses and universities. THE BIG LIE is witchcraft is a religion you design yourself. Choose your deity, choose your rituals, choose your rules. It is an ANYTHING GOES line of hooey that on the surface sounds good and positive to young people. Many are persuaded into this CULT MOVEMENT by those promoting it as an ALTERNATIVE to Christianity." 1 (All emphasis in the original.)

Roots of the Accusations

Oddly enough, I have seen far more Wiccan books, papers, and web-sites that defended against this accusation than I have seen literature or sites that promoted it. We, as Wiccans, seem to be far more ready to counter such a statement than Christians and others seek to make it. Nonetheless, this is a story that is told about Wicca, and needs to be addressed.

One of the foundational roots of this particular accusation is Gerald Gardner's own writing, where he repeatedly refers to Wicca (spelled "Wica") as the "witch cult." 2 In this, he borrowed directly from the scholarly works of Margaret Murray, who's original book on the topic, The Witch-Cult in Western Europe, established the word firmly in the mind of the popular press--and later, of the practitioners. At Gardner's use of the word, the press followed suit, and the words "Wicca" and "cult" were intertwined.

At this time, however, it must be remembered that the word "cult" simply meant "the persons and rites associated with an object of worship or veneration." 3 While the word did not have the same connotation as "church," it lacked the stigma of the harmful or destructive cults popularized in the 1960s, 70s, and 80s. During this time--especially with Charles Manson and the Tate-Bianca murders, tales of "brainwashing" by the Unification Church and other groups, and the mass suicide of Jonestown--the word "cult" came to have several darker images associated with it.


It has been noticed that, due to these negative connotations, the word cult is now more of a slur or "snarl word" than a useful identifier. 4


Defense Against the Accusations

This is a somewhat difficult accusation to defend against, depending on your definition of the word "cult." If you follow the strict dictionary definition, then "cult" becomes a relatively innocuous word. But with the advent of destructive cults (and increased media awareness of the issue), "cult" became a "snarl word"--a word with negative connotations that can be used to twist a person's perception of the group that the label is applied to.

Reasons for the Accusations

This accusation is rooted in fear that some Christians have for Wicca, and the desire to control. This case is a bit different, so we will discuss the two sources separately.

This is the third accusation that I have said was rooted in fear, (See Wiccans are Satanists? (http://showthread.php?t=45323) and Wiccans Use Ritualized Abuse and Sacrifice in their Rituals? (http://showthread.php?t=47960)) but unlike the others, this one does have a reasonable foundation. Many of the Christians say that they fear Wicca are deeply and honestly concerned for the souls of Wiccans, other Christians, and their own children. According to their beliefs, we not only endanger our "eternal souls," but also the souls of those who may fall under the sway of Wicca. Many of them do not even believe that we are evil, but that we may be "deceived by Satan." (Galatians 5:19, among others.) Such fears are very real, even if they are based on false information.

However, this is also the third accusation that is rooted in the desire to control. These rumors were all originated by self-identified Christians, some of whom know that the rumors are false (or, at the very least, that their sources are unreliable). These "Christians" have deliberately turned a blind eye to any contrary evidence, or have simply ignored evidence because it did not support their thesis. They then use the rumors as propaganda to try to sway the behavior of other Christians. In cases like these, the rumors were not put forth so much to slander Wiccans as they were to gain influence over other Christians--even the momentary influence to persuade the targeted Christians to purchase their books or other material.

Refutation of the Accusations

It must be remembered that, in the actual, dictionary definition of the word, Wicca IS a "cult." Wicca is an organized set of religious beliefs: contrary to Ritchie's accusations, this is not a bad thing in and of itself. Of course, most Christians will disagree--but by the definition above, Christianity is also a cult.

This accusation is difficult--if not impossible--to refute, because Christians and Wiccans tend to use different definitions for the word "cult." However, there are several specific behaviors that have been associated to the more negative definitions of the word. Comparing Wiccan or Neo-Pagan groups to Isaac Bonewits's "Advanced Bonewits Cult Danger Evaluation Frame (http://www.neopagan.net/ABCDEF.HTML)" can provide a relevant basis for looking for dangerous behavior, rather than dangerous labels.

There will be Wiccan groups that have a dangerously high score in the frame: just as some Christian groups engage in dangerous, controlling behavior, there have been some Wiccan groups who are far more interested in power over people than in exploring the Wiccan mysteries. I would strongly recommend using the Cult Danger Evaluation Frame for ANY religious group that one was seriously considering.


1: Ritchie, Tammy. "Perilous Times (http://web.archive.org/web/20010413015500/http://www.sounddoctrine.com/ptimes/sayno.htm)" website. This website is no longer on line, but is in the WayBack archive.
2: Gardner, Gerald. Witchcraft Today. Lakemont, GA: Magickal Childe, 1954; 1988 edition, and The Meaning of Witchcraft. Lakemont, GA US: Copple House Books, 1959; 1988 edition. Passim, but see especially Witchcraft Today, pp 28-29, 51, 122.
3: New American Webster Handy College Dictionary. New York: Signet Reference, 1995.
4: http://www.religioustolerance.org/cultmenu.htm




Ok, and this will prbably get me yelled at a bit, but, living on Boston's north shore, close to Salem and spending quite a bit of time in the excellent place, I found that many of the Wiccans there were more Christian than the Christians who were trying to convert them.

[Solly]

Take the shouting as read, Pilgrim :lol:

[technomage]

Ok, and this will prbably get me yelled at a bit, but, living on Boston's north shore, close to Salem and spending quite a bit of time in the excellent place, I found that many of the Wiccans there were more Christian than the Christians who were trying to convert them.

:spit:

Dare I even ask how that works?

Justin

[Pilgrim]

:spit:

Dare I even ask how that works?

Justin
Well it works, not in the terms of faith per se, but in the way in which life is lived. Specifically in the terms of Micah 6:8 and living a life of mercy, justice and humility.

[Solly]

You mean *gasp* nonChristians can be moral???

[technomage]

You mean *gasp* nonChristians can be moral???
Shhh! Don't tell, Solly, that' supposed to be a secret!

I really think the important point to remember is this: yes, non-Christians can be moral ... and sometimes, Christians can be immoral. But the crux of the matter is that both are human.

[Solly]

It's just wiccans like pumpkin with everything :lmbo:

[technomage]

It's just wiccans like pumpkin with everything :lmbo:
Moral pumpkins? You're starting to scare me, Solly....

[Solly]

Moral pumpkins? You're starting to scare me, Solly....

:lol:

[technomage]

:lol:
You mean ... you know about Linus, the Super-Secret Patron Saint of Wicca, and Demigod of Pumpkin-Related Wiccan Bling-Bling? :shocking:

That does it ... you know too much, and now I have to kill you. :rock:

Justin

[Solly]

*gasp* again. Not the Hemlock Soda?

[technomage]

*gasp* again. Not the Hemlock Soda?
Hemlock soda? Solly, shame on you ... I do things the old fashioned way.

Solly --> :zap:

Justin

[Solly]

But there is a deeper magick you forgot about *bnza


Sorry Pilgrim, I know you are waiting to cut in again...

[Pilgrim]

No no, you're doing just fine, though I am reminded of the immortal words of Socrates who said, "I DRANK WHAT!"

[Solly]

:lol: so...err...what was the question again?

[technomage]

:lol: so...err...what was the question again?

Um, er, there was a serious point to this thread...um...wasn't there? :huh:

Justin

[Solly]

Oh yes, i rmember, it was something about you guys going round knocking on doors and asking "Do you believe in Ceridwen?"

[technomage]

Oh yes, i rmember, it was something about you guys going round knocking on doors and asking "Do you believe in Ceridwen?"
Nah, I don't do things like that ... people keep wanting to give me candy. :huh:

Justin

[Heathen Dawn]

Wicca started as a cult, though. Back in the days where Gerald Gardner’s form of Wicca was the only game in town (in the 1960s), Wicca was a closed, hierarchical mystery cult, with secrets kept by oath, a founder who would change his High Priestess whenever she got old and wrinkled, and other such things. It was only later (1970s and onwards), when various Wiccan priests like Raymond Buckland opened Wicca to the public, and fashioned other forms of it than the initiatory mystery cult (for example the Gaia-worshipping form), that Wicca went mainstream.

There are still the original mystery-cult forms of Wicca (Gardnerian, Alexandrian etc) for those who like that type of thing. But Gardner’s original vision for Wicca has been expanded for good.

[Pilgrim]

Wicca started as a cult, though. Back in the days where Gerald Gardner’s form of Wicca was the only game in town (in the 1960s), Wicca was a closed, hierarchical mystery cult, with secrets kept by oath, a founder who would change his High Priestess whenever she got old and wrinkled, and other such things. It was only later (1970s and onwards), when various Wiccan priests like Raymond Buckland opened Wicca to the public, and fashioned other forms of it than the initiatory mystery cult (for example the Gaia-worshipping form), that Wicca went mainstream.

There are still the original mystery-cult forms of Wicca (Gardnerian, Alexandrian etc) for those who like that type of thing. But Gardner’s original vision for Wicca has been expanded for good.
Can it truly be said that Wicca is main stream?

[NSMinistries]

Can it truly be said that Wicca is main stream?I asked that once of a wiccan friend and she told me: "been to the mall, movies, schools, bookstores, and yes even churches these days..." Kinda gave me a wider view of it after meeting her.

[shunyadragon]

Can it truly be said that Wicca is main stream?

Not as far as many Christians believe, but most beliefs that their followers were once burned at the stack or hung by white robbed good upstanding citizens before a burning cross are now wearing suits representing tax exempt organizations with houses of worship or centers for activities with nice trimed lawns.

[Pilgrim]

I think your confusing the KKK with the Puritans man. And you are also failing with logic by trying to hold specific people today guilty for what other people did 300 years ago. Try to keep up.

[Heathen Dawn]

Can it truly be said that Wicca is main stream?

I would say yes, more mainstream than, for example, Christian (Bible-based) cults (http://www.rickross.com/sg_bible.html). I mean it in the sense that those cults, just like Scientology, revolve around a charismatic leader. For Wicca in the 1960s that was Gerald Gardner, hence my saying that Wicca used to be a cult. Whereas nowadays, if anyone should ask which authority Wicca stands under, then the answer would never be any particular human. The authority for Wiccans is the Goddess and the God, just as Christ is for Christians. Yes, there are priests and priestesses, but theirs is a vocation rather than a position of leadership—I’d say somwhere between Protestant pastors and Catholic priests in their status (more on this in my article on pagan priesthood (http://eclecticsatyr.hostultra.com/priesthood.htm); and more on authority in paganism here (http://eclecticsatyr.hostultra.com/immortalgods.htm)).

[Solly]

:lol: Benny Hinn and Gene Scott are on that list, but no Cult of DDism

[Pilgrim]

When we speak of Main Stream terms of Christianity though, we are not talking of Christianity in general. We are talkinga bout main line denominations like Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Catholics etc.

[Heathen Dawn]

When we speak of Main Stream terms of Christianity though, we are not talking of Christianity in general. We are talkinga bout main line denominations like Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Catholics etc.

In both cases, I think the word “mainstream” denotes a development of an initial cult into not being based upon a charismatic human leader any longer. We may say Christianity in its first years was the cult of a human leader named Jesus, but later came to be a religion. We may say SDA started as a cult (that of Ellen White), but then moved away from being based upon a human leader. And that the Unification Church is still a cult, being based upon the personality of Reverend Moon.

[Richbee]

The Accusations

"The wicca, witchcraft movement seeks to pervert our children and young people's minds OFF OF GOD, JESUS CHRIST, AND Christianity onto the DANGEROUS and OCCULTIC activities of witchcraft. This occultic propaganda is being fed to naive young people all over America through television, movies, the internet, even on college campuses and universities. THE BIG LIE is witchcraft is a religion you design yourself. Choose your deity, choose your rituals, choose your rules. It is an ANYTHING GOES line of hooey that on the surface sounds good and positive to young people. Many are persuaded into this CULT MOVEMENT by those promoting it as an ALTERNATIVE to Christianity." 1 (All emphasis in the original.)

Roots of the Accusations

Oddly enough, I have seen far more Wiccan books, papers, and web-sites that defended against this accusation than I have seen literature or sites that promoted it. We, as Wiccans, seem to be far more ready to counter such a statement than Christians and others seek to make it. Nonetheless, this is a story that is told about Wicca, and needs to be addressed.

One of the foundational roots of this particular accusation is Gerald Gardner's own writing, where he repeatedly refers to Wicca (spelled "Wica") as the "witch cult." 2 In this, he borrowed directly from the scholarly works of Margaret Murray, who's original book on the topic, The Witch-Cult in Western Europe, established the word firmly in the mind of the popular press--and later, of the practitioners. At Gardner's use of the word, the press followed suit, and the words "Wicca" and "cult" were intertwined.

At this time, however, it must be remembered that the word "cult" simply meant "the persons and rites associated with an object of worship or veneration." 3 While the word did not have the same connotation as "church," it lacked the stigma of the harmful or destructive cults popularized in the 1960s, 70s, and 80s. During this time--especially with Charles Manson and the Tate-Bianca murders, tales of "brainwashing" by the Unification Church and other groups, and the mass suicide of Jonestown--the word "cult" came to have several darker images associated with it.


It has been noticed that, due to these negative connotations, the word cult is now more of a slur or "snarl word" than a useful identifier. 4


Defense Against the Accusations

This is a somewhat difficult accusation to defend against, depending on your definition of the word "cult." If you follow the strict dictionary definition, then "cult" becomes a relatively innocuous word. But with the advent of destructive cults (and increased media awareness of the issue), "cult" became a "snarl word"--a word with negative connotations that can be used to twist a person's perception of the group that the label is applied to.

Reasons for the Accusations

This accusation is rooted in fear that some Christians have for Wicca, and the desire to control. This case is a bit different, so we will discuss the two sources separately.

This is the third accusation that I have said was rooted in fear, (See Wiccans are Satanists? (http://showthread.php?t=45323) and Wiccans Use Ritualized Abuse and Sacrifice in their Rituals? (http://showthread.php?t=47960)) but unlike the others, this one does have a reasonable foundation. Many of the Christians say that they fear Wicca are deeply and honestly concerned for the souls of Wiccans, other Christians, and their own children. According to their beliefs, we not only endanger our "eternal souls," but also the souls of those who may fall under the sway of Wicca. Many of them do not even believe that we are evil, but that we may be "deceived by Satan." (Galatians 5:19, among others.) Such fears are very real, even if they are based on false information.

However, this is also the third accusation that is rooted in the desire to control. These rumors were all originated by self-identified Christians, some of whom know that the rumors are false (or, at the very least, that their sources are unreliable). These "Christians" have deliberately turned a blind eye to any contrary evidence, or have simply ignored evidence because it did not support their thesis. They then use the rumors as propaganda to try to sway the behavior of other Christians. In cases like these, the rumors were not put forth so much to slander Wiccans as they were to gain influence over other Christians--even the momentary influence to persuade the targeted Christians to purchase their books or other material.

Refutation of the Accusations

It must be remembered that, in the actual, dictionary definition of the word, Wicca IS a "cult." Wicca is an organized set of religious beliefs: contrary to Ritchie's accusations, this is not a bad thing in and of itself. Of course, most Christians will disagree--but by the definition above, Christianity is also a cult.

This accusation is difficult--if not impossible--to refute, because Christians and Wiccans tend to use different definitions for the word "cult." However, there are several specific behaviors that have been associated to the more negative definitions of the word. Comparing Wiccan or Neo-Pagan groups to Isaac Bonewits's "Advanced Bonewits Cult Danger Evaluation Frame (http://www.neopagan.net/ABCDEF.HTML)" can provide a relevant basis for looking for dangerous behavior, rather than dangerous labels.

There will be Wiccan groups that have a dangerously high score in the frame: just as some Christian groups engage in dangerous, controlling behavior, there have been some Wiccan groups who are far more interested in power over people than in exploring the Wiccan mysteries. I would strongly recommend using the Cult Danger Evaluation Frame for ANY religious group that one was seriously considering.


1: Ritchie, Tammy. "Perilous Times (http://web.archive.org/web/20010413015500/http://www.sounddoctrine.com/ptimes/sayno.htm)" website. This website is no longer on line, but is in the WayBack archive.
2: Gardner, Gerald. Witchcraft Today. Lakemont, GA: Magickal Childe, 1954; 1988 edition, and The Meaning of Witchcraft. Lakemont, GA US: Copple House Books, 1959; 1988 edition. Passim, but see especially Witchcraft Today, pp 28-29, 51, 122.
3: New American Webster Handy College Dictionary. New York: Signet Reference, 1995.
4: http://www.religioustolerance.org/cultmenu.htm






Much of this is a postured "Starw Man" (or witch)

It sounds, like, look Mom, we don't believe in sacrificing children .....anymore.

Or, look how our skeptics paint is as Crowley fans, but of course, how can Wiccans pretend to avoid the origins and meanings of symbols? IMO, the spiritual meanings and deceptions remain, no matter what you or any one person believes or says.

Wicca has no foundation or objective standard for truth, and there for no standard, and an almost infinite number of "paths".

This helps explain why over 50% will never join any group.

IMO, a "cult" has members with a leader.

So, perhpas some are members of a cult like folowing, with local coven or group.

One of the sources of material or inspiration, was Theosophy and this was a cult. This is where ideas from Eastern Religion, Kabbala and Free Masonary originate from.

Gardner made up much of the other stuff and mixed in some new fiction with old myths from: "The Golden Bough".

The magick fantasies are really just old Occult notions, repackaged and resold as nice and fluffly. (benign)

[technomage]

If there's a straw-man, point it out. If not, retract your statement.

:teeth:

Justin

[Richbee]

If there's a straw-man, point it out. If not, retract your statement.

:teeth:

Justin

The accusation is a straw man of sorts. It is easily knocked down.

Look Mom and Dad, see no evil, hear no evil?

[Pilgrim]

The accusation is a straw man of sorts. It is easily knocked down.

Look Mom and Dad, see no evil, hear no evil?
By definition it can't be a straw man since he started the conversation. A straw man is when one dodges the point at hand by raising a different argument which has not been raised and refuting it rather than the argument at hand.