Whatever became of Witches?

[Lazy Agnostic]

The quotes were from an apologist. The questions following have gone unasnwered after several requests. Would anyone care to address this?

"There were likely several reasons for God's command to kill witches."....

..."Witchcraft was one thing that was intolerable to God. He isn't for witchcraft now, but He surely doesn't want worldwide chaos and turmoil because people are killing other people. He would rather use His power to limit the witch's power. He would also rather see them get saved."

LA
Do you really believe that God ameliorated the power of witches to prevent people from killing them?

From where do witches derive their power and at what point in history did God decide to limit that power?

[jpholding]

LA,

I have no specific comment on witches but one aspect of preterist eschatology is that Satan was bound for 1000 years (per Revelation) sometime in the first century, and that certain demonic powers may have ceased to have a hold at that time. If you think this may be relevant so be it. :smile:

[Pereynol of Sheer Dread]

They're still around....
And I wouldn't recommend trying to tangle with them.
There are New Agers and nature worshipping Wiccans who call themselves "witches," but these are innocuous compared with those who have embraced real darkness. Rhetoric arising from multiculturalist sensibilities may suffice to launch another routine "lazy" objection to Christian exclusivity, but, the dark ones will not forbear to drink, even from a bleeding heart.

[FirstSunday33ad]

I would say, based on the content of the question, that what were considered "witches" at the time the command to execute them was given, is not what we would call our present day (so-called) witches.

As for the rest of your questions:

The witches referred to in the Bible derived their "power" from Satan and his demons. To invoke their power they had to ally themselves to these demons. Because they could - and did - lead those who used their services away from God, they were sentenced to die.

After the victory at Calvary, when Christ defeated sin, the power of demons was significantly checked. The Holy Spirit came upon the world and the kingdom of God was begun - the binding of Satan that JP mentions. This meant that the OT witches were no longer able to derive power from the demons and their influence waned.

Some claim that Satanics are still able to derive power from demons, but I am of those who don't believe this true. As for the "witches" today, they are mostly jaded teens, college kids and professors looking for an alternate to organized religion. Wicca is merely the latest product of an overindulged culture.

[Pilgrim]

Interesting thing I heard once but have not checked it out yet is that the Hebrew word we translate as "witch" actually means "One who poisons."

Anyone else ever hear that? And can anyone disagree that a poisoner deserves death?

[Lazy Agnostic]

Today @ 02:34 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=105787#post105787)
jpholding:

LA,

I have no specific comment on witches but one aspect of preterist eschatology is that Satan was bound for 1000 years (per Revelation) sometime in the first century, and that certain demonic powers may have ceased to have a hold at that time. If you think this may be relevant so be it. :smile:

Thanks.

Do you have an opinion of the apologist's comment? that... God would rather limit witchs' power to avoid worldwide chaos and turmoil because people [would be] killing other people.

[Lazy Agnostic]

Today @ 03:07 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=105815#post105815)
pereynol:

They're still around....
And I wouldn't recommend trying to tangle with them.
There are New Agers and nature worshipping Wiccans who call themselves "witches," but these are innocuous compared with those who have embraced real darkness. Rhetoric arising from multiculturalist sensibilities may suffice to launch another routine "lazy" objection to Christian exclusivity, but, the dark ones will not forbear to drink, even from a bleeding heart.
O! well done! I commend your pains,

And every one shall share i' the gains.

And now about the cauldron sing,

Like elves and fairies in a ring,

Enchanting all that you put in.

[jpholding]

Today @ 08:41 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=105848#post105848)
Lazy Agnostic:

Do you have an opinion of the apologist's comment? that... God would rather limit witchs' power to avoid worldwide chaos and turmoil because people [would be] killing other people.

I'd need a larger context to be sure what their point is; it's rather clouded and vague, and as far as it sounds it doesn't make sense to me. I would regard as more sensible something like CS Lewis' comment that if witches really DID exist and do the sorts of things they were accused of (making people sick, destroying crops, etc) then just executions would have at least some basis in action. I wonder if that apologist would substitute "murderers" for "witches" and say the same.

[seer]

Up here in the Northeast, we pretty much killed them all a while back. :angel:

[LilPunkishOfTerror]

FirstSunday wrote,



Some claim that Satanics are still able to derive power from demons, but I am of those who don't believe this true. As for the "witches" today, they are mostly jaded teens, college kids and professors looking for an alternate to organized religion. Wicca is merely the latest product of an overindulged culture.

Guy> Hang on, that depends on which satanism view you're talking about. Most satanics today deny the existance of demons, and satan for them is the exaltation of Self. (Anton LaVey for instance)

[dizzle]

Good point GH. And I would concur with JP's comments.

[Socrates]

05-24-2003 @ 06:37 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=105843#post105843)
Pilgrim:

Interesting thing I heard once but have not checked it out yet is that the Hebrew word we translate as "witch" actually means "One who poisons."

News to me. My information is:

03784 kashaph (stress on second syllable)

a primitive root; TWOT-1051; v

AV-sorcerers 3, witch 2, witchcraft 1; 6

1) (Piel) to practice witchcraft or sorcery, use witchcraft
1a) sorcerer, sorceress (participle)

Easy to find with Online Bible http://www.onlinebible.net/ -- very useful tool for any pastor I would have thought.

Anyone else ever hear that? And can anyone disagree that a poisoner deserves death?

No to both.

[FirstSunday33ad]

Yesterday @ 08:36 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=107185#post107185)
ghbearman:

FirstSunday wrote,



Some claim that Satanics are still able to derive power from demons, but I am of those who don't believe this true. As for the "witches" today, they are mostly jaded teens, college kids and professors looking for an alternate to organized religion. Wicca is merely the latest product of an overindulged culture.

Guy> Hang on, that depends on which satanism view you're talking about. Most satanics today deny the existance of demons, and satan for them is the exaltation of Self. (Anton LaVey for instance)

I suppose I'm taking the sterotypical "Satan worshipping" view from the 70's. It is almost certainly outdated. But I still do not believe any witches, wiccas or Satanists (sterotypical or new age) derive any power from their beliefs or practices.

[RevSteve45]

Lazy Agnostic,

The sin of witchcraft is actually the sin of divination, from which the Hebrew words for witch and witchcraft are derived. Here is what Vine's says about it:

DIVINE, PRACTICE DIVINATION

qacam 7080, "to divine, practice divination." Cognates of this word appear in late Aramaic, Coptic, Syriac, Mandean, Ethiopic, Palmyran, and Arabic. This root appears 31 times in biblical Hebrew: 11 times as a verb, 9 times as a participle, and 11 times as a noun.

Divination was a pagan parallel to prophesying: "There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination.... For those nations, which you shall dispossess, listen to those who practice witchcraft and to diviners, but as for you the Lord your God has not allowed you to do so. The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your countrymen; you shall listen to him" Deut. 18:10,14-15-- first occurrence.
(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words)

The real sin of divination, is that it involves communication with the unseen world of demonic spirits. Probably the majority of astrologers, palm-readers, crystal ball-gazers, tarot card readers, channelers, etc. are fakes. But there are many who have genuine powers and supernatural knowledge, that is gained from demonic spirits. There have been instances of demonic possession resulting from such "harmless" activities as playing with Ouija boards. The occult is a very dangerous game to play, even for a Christian. If we play around with forbidden knowledge, we may find ourselves oppressed by powers beyond our control.

In His Service,
Steve

[Lazy Agnostic]

05-23-2003 @ 04:20 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=105875#post105875)
jpholding:



I'd need a larger context to be sure what their point is; it's rather clouded and vague, and as far as it sounds it doesn't make sense to me. I would regard as more sensible something like CS Lewis' comment that if witches really DID exist and do the sorts of things they were accused of (making people sick, destroying crops, etc) then just executions would have at least some basis in action. I wonder if that apologist would substitute "murderers" for "witches" and say the same.
I think it might be interesting to note that the apologist-in-question removed from his archives, the thread which contained his witch quote---AFTER it appeared here at TWeb.

Does that action speak, at all, to an estimation of his integrity?

[FirstSunday33ad]

05-28-2003 @ 12:07 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=110034#post110034)
Lazy Agnostic:

jpholding:

I'd need a larger context to be sure what their point is; it's rather clouded and vague, and as far as it sounds it doesn't make sense to me. I would regard as more sensible something like CS Lewis' comment that if witches really DID exist and do the sorts of things they were accused of (making people sick, destroying crops, etc) then just executions would have at least some basis in action. I wonder if that apologist would substitute "murderers" for "witches" and say the same.

I think it might be interesting to note that the apologist-in-question removed from his archives, the thread which contained his witch quote---AFTER it appeared here at TWeb.

Does that action speak, at all, to an estimation of his integrity?

:huh:

I have no idea what you are saying here and if your going to attack a person's integrity you need to be clear in your meaning or risk being attacked in turn.

[BohemianXQueen]

...You people do realize that witches don't worship the devil (because they don't believe in him) and they are around today, right? Also, witches do not try to spread chaos and evil and bullshit like that.

[spl_cadet]

Actually they do, whether they realize it or not. I dated a Wiccan once, and by the time that we broke up, comments she made about her witchcraft stuff made me quite convinced that she was dealing with the demonic.

[Eyeheart Pumpkin]

05-23-2003 @ 02:37 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=105843#post105843)
Pilgrim:

Interesting thing I heard once but have not checked it out yet is that the Hebrew word we translate as "witch" actually means "One who poisons."

Anyone else ever hear that? And can anyone disagree that a poisoner deserves death?

I had heard that for many years, but someone a few months ago, on another website (I don't recall which one), posted the evolution of the translation from Hebrew to Latin to German to Polish to English, and it appeared that the Hebrew word was translated into a Latin word that was similar but not precisely equal, which was then translated into a German word which meant "poisoner," which was then translated into a similar but not precise Polish word, then to an English word even further removed from the original Hebrew. It's like that old "telephone line" game.

[BohemianXQueen]

:shifty: :ahem: