PDA

View Full Version : The Church Age in Daniel 4


jesterbr549
March 14th 2005, 09:36 PM
I thought I would throw this at you all.

Many say that the Church is not pictured in the Old Testament because they say the Church is separate from Israel however, Paul makes it clear that the Church is engrafted into the commonwealth of Israel (Rom 11) and, therefore, it is highly possible that the Church Age is hidden in the Old Testament.

It is hidden in Daniel 4.

Here the Babylonian World Tree is to be cut down and a restraining band of Iron and Brass put around it to keep it from regrowing until seven times had passed over it at which time the restrainer would be removed and the Tree would immediately spring back up to where it was before. This was by the Word of the Holy One and the Watcher, both of whom came down from heaven. And, during this seven times, the tree would be watered with the Dews of heaven.

If we allow that the Holy Spirit is the Author of the Word and the symbolism employed is consistant without, than here we have a perfect picture of the Seven Times of the Church.

The Babylonian World Tree was cut down by the Axe of the Apostles at the start of the Church Age and the pouring out of the Spirit and a band of Iron (Roman per Daniel 2) and Brass (Grecian per Daniel 2) were put around it to keep it from regrowing ( a friend of mine assures me that they still do this to this day when they cut a tree down to keep new branches from sprouting) which is seen in the two main branches of the Church - Roman Catholicism and Greek Orthodox. This restraining band is exactly what Paul is refering to that "restrains the mystery of iniquity" during this same time.

The Seven Times are precisely seen in the Seven Letters to the Church and the Dews of Heaven, according to Benjamin Keach is refering to "the preaching of the Gospel" during this same time.

The Holy One is, obviously, Y'shua.

The Watcher is John Baptist who said, "Even now is the Axe laid to the root of the tree" and this symbolism that he used could only have been drawn from Daniel 4.

The Tree springing back up on the World is refering to the rebuilding of the ancient city and empire "on its own base" per Zechariah and is specifically "the mystery concerning the woman" called Babylon, which mystery still continues to this day.

Neba, after he regained his sanity, specifically called the events that happened to him a SIGN and, obviously, it must be a Sign of something so, if it is NOT refering to the Church Age restraining the Babylonian World Tree than please explain to me what it IS a sign of...

Ted
March 14th 2005, 09:54 PM
If you can show that a Bible writer used the Seven Church letters as the "seven times of the Church," then we may have something to talk about.

BTW, I agree that the church has existed from the earliest days, and has always been made up of the faithful. I just want you to use good interpretive methodology.

Ted

jesterbr549
March 14th 2005, 10:29 PM
If you can show that a Bible writer used the Seven Church letters as the "seven times of the Church," then we may have something to talk about. BTW, I agree that the church has existed from the earliest days, and has always been made up of the faithful. I just want you to use good interpretive methodology. Ted

I just did - He called the Holy Spirit who I call Shalmah.

If you want the "Bible Writer" for the reference to that personal name, I would refer you to Psalm 91.

"Because he has known my name I will honor him with long life - even for ever and ever - and I will show him my Y'shua."

Clear it up any?

GhostontheNet
March 15th 2005, 01:20 AM
I just did - He called the Holy Spirit who I call Shalmah.

If you want the "Bible Writer" for the reference to that personal name, I would refer you to Psalm 91.

"Because he has known my name I will honor him with long life - even for ever and ever - and I will show him my Y'shua."

Clear it up any? To quote the Stoic and Epicurean philosophers in Acts 17:18 on these posts in general (except for Ted's), "What does this babbler wish to say?"

studyhound
March 15th 2005, 01:46 AM
To quote the Stoic and Epicurean philosophers in Acts 17:18 on these posts in general (except for Ted's), "What does this babbler wish to say?"

:lmbo:

jesterbr549
March 15th 2005, 12:30 PM
To quote the Stoic and Epicurean philosophers in Acts 17:18 on these posts in general (except for Ted's), "What does this babbler wish to say?"


Well, thank you for comparing me to the Apostle Paul.

Really, you shoudn't have.

For I am not the Apostle Paul and you, and your couch potato lap dog are obviously not philosophers but trollers.

Go get a life.

GhostontheNet
March 15th 2005, 04:32 PM
Well, thank you for comparing me to the Apostle Paul.

Really, you shoudn't have.

For I am not the Apostle Paul and you, and your couch potato lap dog are obviously not philosophers but trollers.

Go get a life. I save my insults for when I think they are necessary, in your case I would reply but you present your ideas too incoherantly to even understand what you are trying to tell us.

jesterbr549
March 15th 2005, 04:49 PM
I save my insults for when I think they are necessary, in your case I would reply but you present your ideas too incoherantly to even understand what you are trying to tell us.

"The same judgment you judge others with you are guilty of yourself."

I think they have a forum for trolls don't they?

If not they should...

Amazing Rando
March 15th 2005, 05:24 PM
I just did - He called the Holy Spirit who I call Shalmah.


The Holy Spirit's real name isn't "Shalmah," it's Frank. Didn't you hear? :stunned:

GhostontheNet
March 15th 2005, 09:57 PM
"The same judgment you judge others with you are guilty of yourself."

I think they have a forum for trolls don't they?

If not they should... I find this patently amusing, I leave for an extended period of time when I feel I don't have enough time to post, I return and get called a troll. I know that the admin DeeDeeWarren does not consider me a troll, even refering to me as "my friend GhostontheNet". Were you to take my unsubtle hint, you would realize that giving the name of the Holy Spirit to justify your exegetical move of making the letters to the seven churches representative of seven time periods rather than the no-brainer move of equating them with letters to seven churches of the province of Asia, nor does it fully explain your exegesis of almost every passage you cite. Paul has the quite sensible justification that he was adressing Jewish audiences about Jewish matters while those unfamiliar with it may not understand, but we both hold the same faith and I still can't figure out what you're trying to say as your interpretation goes.