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Scrawly
01-03-2015, 10:13 AM
Sometimes I'm sick of hearing, listening, reading people talk about God. It honestly gets nauseating. You can go on social media and find links to sermons, new books, debates, etc. and I come across these quotes from all sorts of Christian leaders out there. Here's one from Tim Keller:

"Prayer is the only entryway into genuine self-knowledge. It is also the main way we experience deep change—the reordering of our loves. Prayer is how God gives us so many of the unimaginable things he has for us. Indeed, prayer makes it safe for God to give us many of the things we most desire. It is the way we know God, the way we finally treat God as God. Prayer is simply the key to everything we need to do and be in life. We must learn to pray. We have to."

As much as I can appreciate the work these brothers and sisters do and the pure heart that produces material such as the above, sometimes, I just want to say "Oh shush". Quotes like the above just seem almost annoying to me. At some point talk like this ceases to be insightful, cleaver, or even helpful. It's like a politician spewing out rhetoric to maintain and solidify himself as a leader in the minds of his followers. Please for the love of God, stop writing books on topics that amount to nothing more than idle Epicurean-like speculation. Write a book with the following content:

"Go feed the homeless and stop being a glutton for borderline useless information. Read the Bible and spend time in prayer - it's really that simple guys".

Does anyone else feel similar?

Obsidian
01-03-2015, 10:50 AM
If you are saying that sermons should be more Bible-based and less rhetorical, then I agree,

Catholicity
01-03-2015, 11:59 AM
Your statement is vague. Could you go into a little more depth please?

Scrawly
01-03-2015, 12:25 PM
If you are saying that sermons should be more Bible-based and less rhetorical, then I agree,

God wants to transform our appetites into a hunger for him and true intimacy and freedom comes about when we single-mindedly focus our being and align our will with his. This will accomplish the purposes of God in our lives.

See how easy it is to compose fluffy rhetoric? It felt like snake-oil as I was writing it.

Cow Poke
01-03-2015, 12:37 PM
Sometimes I'm sick of hearing, listening, reading people talk about God. It honestly gets nauseating. You can go on social media and find links to sermons, new books, debates, etc. and I come across these quotes from all sorts of Christian leaders out there. Here's one from Tim Keller:

"Prayer is the only entryway into genuine self-knowledge. It is also the main way we experience deep change—the reordering of our loves. Prayer is how God gives us so many of the unimaginable things he has for us. Indeed, prayer makes it safe for God to give us many of the things we most desire. It is the way we know God, the way we finally treat God as God. Prayer is simply the key to everything we need to do and be in life. We must learn to pray. We have to."

As much as I can appreciate the work these brothers and sisters do and the pure heart that produces material such as the above, sometimes, I just want to say "Oh shush". Quotes like the above just seem almost annoying to me. At some point talk like this ceases to be insightful, cleaver, or even helpful. It's like a politician spewing out rhetoric to maintain and solidify himself as a leader in the minds of his followers. Please for the love of God, stop writing books on topics that amount to nothing more than idle Epicurean-like speculation. Write a book with the following content:

"Go feed the homeless and stop being a glutton for borderline useless information. Read the Bible and spend time in prayer - it's really that simple guys".

Does anyone else feel similar?

I'm a little confused --- you're tired of hearing, listening, reading people talk about God, so you write a post where you talk about THEM? :huh:

Scrawly
01-03-2015, 12:39 PM
I'm a little confused --- you're tired of hearing, listening, reading people talk about God, so you write a post where you talk about THEM? :huh:

Yup because sometimes I feel I need to get things off my chest and express myself.

Cow Poke
01-03-2015, 12:43 PM
Yup because sometimes I feel I need to get things off my chest and express myself.

Well, then, ya done fine! :thumb:

One Bad Pig
01-03-2015, 12:55 PM
God wants to transform our appetites into a hunger for him and true intimacy and freedom comes about when we single-mindedly focus our being and align our will with his. This will accomplish the purposes of God in our lives.

See how easy it is to compose fluffy rhetoric? It felt like snake-oil as I was writing it.
So which bit made your stomach churn? :huh: It's somewhat incomplete, but it's not far off the mark AFAICS.

Cow Poke
01-03-2015, 12:59 PM
So, I'm curious.. I have often started threads on Tweb about things that happened in my Church, or to me or my family, and the insight I have gained, etc.... would those things merit a "shush"?

Scrawly
01-03-2015, 01:14 PM
So which bit made your stomach churn? :huh: It's somewhat incomplete, but it's not far off the mark AFAICS.

Well it seems that this sort of talk results in more talk and never really exits the realm of ethereal chatter. That wasn't a quote, I made it up to demonstrate it's effect, which is essentially in one ear and out the other. Something one forgets within a matter of seconds.

Scrawly
01-03-2015, 01:20 PM
So, I'm curious.. I have often started threads on Tweb about things that happened in my Church, or to me or my family, and the insight I have gained, etc.... would those things merit a "shush"?

It's hard to say without any example, but I am really starting to see what seems like a lot of Christian gibber-jabber about God, and hearing the word over and over and over again, yet when it actually comes to God's power manifesting in our lives, we seem to demonstrate little more than secular living.

Catholicity
01-03-2015, 01:32 PM
Oh.....do you mean preachers are to fluffy clouds rainbows and unicorns?

If so, yup I get it. I just don't even pay attention anymore to them

Scrawly
01-03-2015, 01:45 PM
Oh.....do you mean preachers are to fluffy clouds rainbows and unicorns?

If so, yup I get it. I just don't even pay attention anymore to them

Yeah there is that as well, but I think I am reaching a point where I want more God and less humanness - and I don't want "more God" to manifest in mere talk about God. It seems our spiritual lives in the West are comprised of books and pithy quotes about God. When it actually comes down to God and us - one on one - what happens? 5 minutes in prayer and then we get bored? I thought God was so amazing, what happened? You see?

Cow Poke
01-03-2015, 01:50 PM
It's hard to say without any example, but I am really starting to see what seems like a lot of Christian gibber-jabber about God, and hearing the word over and over and over again, yet when it actually comes to God's power manifesting in our lives, we seem to demonstrate little more than secular living.

Are you a discipler?

Scrawly
01-03-2015, 01:53 PM
Are you a discipler?

No my erratic schedule and relatively poor health prevents me from forming any significant relationships with others. I often times have just enough strength and energy to do the basics.

Cow Poke
01-03-2015, 02:00 PM
No my erratic schedule and relatively poor health prevents me from forming any significant relationships with others. I often times have just enough strength and energy to do the basics.

OK, but everybody can do something. When my Mom was in her twilight years, with advanced diabetes, and nearly blind, my Dad would type up the Church's prayer list in huge font, and she would to to her bedroom and spend HOURS in prayer. I always think about that when somebody tells me how incapable or inadequate they are to serve.

And, HONEST, I'm not trying to find fault or criticize --- I've just seen that ANYBODY can serve regardless of our circumstances. Another lady, an elderly lady in our Church, writes cards of encouragement to our people, and yet another lady in one of our nursing homes is a prayer warrior like my Mom.

Jedidiah
01-03-2015, 02:10 PM
I do not believe God calls us all to go out and be soul winners. He gives a special gift to some for that. What He does expect us to do is live our faith and share with those around us. Not many around you, share with a few.

Scrawly
01-03-2015, 02:11 PM
OK, but everybody can do something. When my Mom was in her twilight years, with advanced diabetes, and nearly blind, my Dad would type up the Church's prayer list in huge font, and she would to to her bedroom and spend HOURS in prayer. I always think about that when somebody tells me how incapable or inadequate they are to serve.

And, HONEST, I'm not trying to find fault or criticize --- I've just seen that ANYBODY can serve regardless of our circumstances. Another lady, an elderly lady in our Church, writes cards of encouragement to our people, and yet another lady in one of our nursing homes is a prayer warrior like my Mom.

Well I don't go out and literally make disciples out of perfect strangers but I do engage in study and prayer and do what I can, but I find myself asking - is this it? This is the effect of the God of all creation and power and wonder in my life? There has to be more...

Scrawly
01-03-2015, 02:12 PM
I do not believe God calls us all to go out and be soul winners. He gives a special gift to some for that. What He does expect us to do is live our faith and share with those around us. Not many around you, share with a few.

This is true.

Obsidian
01-03-2015, 02:21 PM
I do not believe God calls us all to go out and be soul winners. He gives a special gift to some for that. What He does expect us to do is live our faith and share with those around us. Not many around you, share with a few.

I came across this passage lately, and it seemed to me like every Christian is probably supposed to fall into at least one of the following categories. So if someone is not a pastor or a teacher, then he is by default an evangelist.

Ephesians 4:11-12
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ.

Cow Poke
01-03-2015, 03:35 PM
Well I don't go out and literally make disciples out of perfect strangers but I do engage in study and prayer and do what I can, but I find myself asking - is this it? This is the effect of the God of all creation and power and wonder in my life? There has to be more...

Then pray for wisdom (http://biblehub.com/james/1-5.htm) to find more.

Cow Poke
01-03-2015, 03:36 PM
I do not believe God calls us all to go out and be soul winners. He gives a special gift to some for that. What He does expect us to do is live our faith and share with those around us. Not many around you, share with a few.

We've been having an interesting discussion at our Church about this, because there are lots of people who feel this way. I've asked the Church to pray about it, to write down the names of people who they feel need Jesus, and to begin to pray for them. If God leads beyond that, be prepared to respond. :smile: And pray for those who are winning souls, and for Churches who are attempting to reach the lost or unchurched.

One Bad Pig
01-03-2015, 04:31 PM
Well it seems that this sort of talk results in more talk and never really exits the realm of ethereal chatter.
Yeah, it should be connected with more concrete things we can do - though paying less attention to our own appetites is concrete; it just doesn't go over well.

That wasn't a quote, I made it up to demonstrate it's effect, which is essentially in one ear and out the other. Something one forgets within a matter of seconds.
Perhaps you should pay more attention. :wink: Your made-up quote contains ideas that are hard to put into practice due to their self-denying nature. People are quite good at not hearing what they don't want to do. I dare say that denying oneself is more difficult than feeding the poor, though both are laudable tasks.

Jedidiah
01-03-2015, 05:06 PM
I came across this passage lately, and it seemed to me like every Christian is probably supposed to fall into at least one of the following categories. So if someone is not a pastor or a teacher, then he is by default an evangelist.

Ephesians 4:11-12
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ.

I believe we are all responsible to work for the edifying of the body, but I do not see that list as exhaustive.

Cow Poke
01-03-2015, 05:13 PM
I believe we are all responsible to work for the edifying of the body, but I do not see that list as exhaustive.

And I believe that the emphasis is on the edifying of the body, not our own selves.