God without pain?

[KyleX0rz]

If God is an all ultimate being and such, then it is assumed that God is incapable of feeling pain, right? If thats true then how can God have the need to save us through jesus, because if God feels no pain just love for us then there is no need for God to save anyone since God will always love us. What i'm thinking is that cause its such a great love it creates a need for God to save us? I'm a little unsastified with my own answer, but i think it can solve my question perhaps?:clueless:

[ih8censorship]

well, in the garden of eden they (adam and eve) ate the fruit which made people sinfull, and therefore apart from God. now just because people are bad doesnt mean God doesnt still love us. parents claim to still love their children even when there bad, thats why they punish them. so God punishes the people who were bad , but without a way to redeem themselves all people would be punished by default, and i dont think that would really be right there would need to be a way to get out of the punishment brought on by the first 2 humans adam and eve. therefore Jesus died on the cross to be the final sacrifice or whatever, so that people who choose to dont have to be punished (through Gods grace/mercy) and if your wondering why Jesus needed to die a physical death, theres a verse in Hebrews (i think its in Hebrews) that says something to the order of "without the shedding of blood there is no remission" so, we know there needed to be blood at some point and since it was God that died he used his physical death to save his people. and remember he dident stay dead either :wink:

If God is an all ultimate being and such, then it is assumed that God is incapable of feeling pain, right?
hm... are you saying Jesus wasent God then? we know he WEPT because of John 11:35 (emotional pain), or wouldent it hurt a human physicaly to get nailed up on a cross and get beaten up and whipped? HEY! lets try an experement on you ^_^

[KyleX0rz]

well, in the garden of eden they (adam and eve) ate the fruit which made people sinfull, and therefore apart from God. now just because people are bad doesnt mean God doesnt still love us. parents claim to still love their children even when there bad, thats why they punish them. so God punishes the people who were bad , but without a way to redeem themselves all people would be punished by default, and i dont think that would really be right there would need to be a way to get out of the punishment brought on by the first 2 humans adam and eve. therefore Jesus died on the cross to be the final sacrifice or whatever, so that people who choose to dont have to be punished (through Gods grace/mercy) and if your wondering why Jesus needed to die a physical death, theres a verse in Hebrews (i think its in Hebrews) that says something to the order of "without the shedding of blood there is no remission" so, we know there needed to be blood at some point and since it was God that died he used his physical death to save his people. and remember he dident stay dead either :wink:


hm... are you saying Jesus wasent God then? we know he WEPT because of John 11:35 (emotional pain), or wouldent it hurt a human physicaly to get nailed up on a cross and get beaten up and whipped? HEY! lets try an experement on you ^_^

parent analogy is an horrible analogy imo, for one a little thing about me, i dont believe in the trinity persay(yes i know the trinity is scriptual), but thats different...Jesus could feel emotional distress and pain, because Jesus is flesh in blood, but God on the other hand can not feel emotional distress or pain, Since God cant feel pain, there would be no need for a savior right? but then what i said before about God loving so much he placed a savior, so yeah i anwsered my own question and you just sidetracked me, im just looking for others opinions on this cause im not really sasitfied with my own.

[ih8censorship]

so how is it that you can claim to be a chistian if you dont belive Jesus is/was the human form of God? :huh: do you belive in Multiple gods? if you do that contradicts several parts in scripture. if Jesus was just another human like everyone else and wasent God, what would make the difference of him dieing on the cross for everyones sins than say paul or ceaser or billy-joe-bob? also where do you come up with that God cannot feel pain anyway? God obviously has gotten pretty upset with humans in the past, otherwise the near extinction of the human race with the flood and the whole fire and brimstone thing in sodom and gommorah were just for his entertainment or something..... but then that would prove that he felt boredom and needed to be entertained. so you see God has emotions and if he has some emotion why is pain (wheather physical or emotional) so unconceivable? feeling pain is not a "bad" thing, it lets us make informed desisions on the actions we take.

hm i just remember you belive in evolution! so mr evolutionist, if pain is bad why did it "evolve" in every animal and human? oh whoops i forgot humans are animals :tongue: :ahem:

[KyleX0rz]

so how is it that you can claim to be a chistian if you dont belive Jesus is/was the human form of God? :huh: do you belive in Multiple gods? if you do that contradicts several parts in scripture. if Jesus was just another human like everyone else and wasent God, what would make the difference of him dieing on the cross for everyones sins than say paul or ceaser or billy-joe-bob? also where do you come up with that God cannot feel pain anyway? God obviously has gotten pretty upset with humans in the past, otherwise the near extinction of the human race with the flood and the whole fire and brimstone thing in sodom and gommorah were just for his entertainment or something..... but then that would prove that he felt boredom and needed to be entertained. so you see God has emotions and if he has some emotion why is pain (wheather physical or emotional) so unconceivable? feeling pain is not a "bad" thing, it lets us make informed desisions on the actions we take.

hm i just remember you belive in evolution! so mr evolutionist, if pain is bad why did it "evolve" in every animal and human? oh whoops i forgot humans are animals :tongue: :ahem:

O_o uhhhhh ok....

[Jillyn'Toast]

Several thoughts here... I'll go in reverse order with the posts.

First, ih8, you're not answering the question. I'll clarify his point, since he's being inadequate :tongue: He was saying since God is a perfectly good being, how can he feel pain? And if it's contradictory for perfectly good beings to feel pain, since pain isn't inherantly good, how can God have felt pain? also, leave personal bias of the poster out, you'll find it helps give a clear answer :wink:

Kylex0rz, I don't know what you're saying... you said you believe Jesus could feel pain since he was both human and god... but... where does it say that God the Father felt pain? or the Holy Spirit feels pain? It doesn't... Jesus when he was a physical person could feel pain. When I was little my grandma would tell me it makes Jesus cry when I do bad things, I don't think it works that way. Salvation... hm... lets define opposites. God is love, only love no pain or evil, lets just say this for the sake of argument. Ok, so God is only love, but with that the opposite of love, lets say, is pain. So when God is being only love he by default is creating pain of some sort. It's the natural opposite. Does God feel pain when we sin? or does he feel overwhelming love to forgive us because he understands we've done wrong?

[ih8censorship]

pain doesnt FEEL good, but its good because it prevents us from doing wrong things. so, why is pain something that is bad? could Gods pain be something that helps him manage the human race ? like by having the flood and the killing of certain races by "his people" in the old testament? or, in the manner of Jesus dieing for our sins, he felt bad about humans being in like an eternal rut because of their own stupid actions, and he wanted to help them because he made them and you generaly love (or at least like) things that you made and were satisfyed and content right after you made it.

so i think God loves us, and people being bad and not ever having a chance to be with him in heaven would make him feel bad because you like to be around people/things you love. and if he just let anyone into heaven because he likes people, wheres the extra incentive to be good?

i think if i was Jesus i dunno if id cry when someone did wrong.. but id at least be upset... after all i went through all that sufering for all the people. i imagine id understand a little bit though since i was human once too and know how hard it is to stay good sometimes.

the opposite of love is not pain. how are you even getting that anyway? the opposite of love is hate. the opposite of pain is pleasure.

[spiritmech]

I have to agree with ih8, here. Pleasure does not equal "good" and pain does not equal "evil." God the Father is a person. The Holy Spirit is a person. All three members of the Trinity can feel pain.

In Christianity, the equations are backwards (from the world's), because Christ's love for us is defined by his acceptance of suffering in order to save us. Christ's pain *is* love.

sm

[shunyadragon]

parent analogy is an horrible analogy imo, for one a little thing about me, i dont believe in the trinity persay(yes i know the trinity is scriptual), but thats different...Jesus could feel emotional distress and pain, because Jesus is flesh in blood, but God on the other hand can not feel emotional distress or pain, Since God cant feel pain, there would be no need for a savior right? but then what i said before about God loving so much he placed a savior, so yeah i anwsered my own question and you just sidetracked me, im just looking for others opinions on this cause im not really sasitfied with my own.

I do not believe the trinity is scriptural. It is an interpretation of scripture.

This is somewhat an extension of questions on atonement theology. Concepts of questions that try to address what God feels is somewhat of a contradiction. The nature of God is far removed from our world. It is best if you believe in God, God is . . . There are attributes of God or the source as expressed in different religions. Some of these attributes may be called love, compassion, omnipotence, and justice from our point of view, but that again is limited by the horizon of our worldview and knowledge.

Anthropomorphic projections of our limited concepts of feelings like pain, could not reflect the nature of God.

[TrinityKicker]

If God is an all ultimate being and such, then it is assumed that God is incapable of feeling pain, right? If thats true then how can God have the need to save us through jesus, because if God feels no pain just love for us then there is no need for God to save anyone since God will always love us. What i'm thinking is that cause its such a great love it creates a need for God to save us? I'm a little unsastified with my own answer, but i think it can solve my question perhaps?:clueless:Kyle, as long as you think an untimate being is incapable of feeling pain, you are going to be confused about this. You need to first define pain. Pain can be physical (the result of pricking your finger) or nonphysical (grieving for a dead pet). I gather that you think God is not physical so it must then be nonphysical pain; grief.
If a woman contracts HIV because of being kidnapped and raped... wouldn't a loving God feel emotional pain for her suffering?
Also, God is not simply love. God is also holy, just, righteous, etc. Through the cross we see God's justice in that the price for sin was paid and His love because He gave His son so that we would not have to perish.

[skiddumskay]

I gather that you think God is not physical so it must then be nonphysical pain; grief. If a woman contracts HIV because of being kidnapped and raped... wouldn't a loving God feel emotional pain for her suffering?
This is an anthropomorphic outlook. If God is omniscient, then God saw this event before God even created the universe. Part of "nonphysical pain" is in the frailties and limitations that we as humans have. If there is a God who has none of these limitations, there is no reason to suppose that God can be shocked/surprised/upset/grieved (contrary to the Scriptures that assert otherwise, eg Noah's flood). In point of fact, God's omniscience, properly thought through, renders the idea of nonphysical pain moot. Furthermore, God's seeing of all of the pain, badness, and suffering of the eternal hell that God supposedly created, plus God's seeing of all of the pain, badness, and suffering of the temporal universe that God supposedly created, makes the prospect of this God being "gracious, merciful, good..." quite difficult to reconcile. I think this man's point was a good one, but his solution is inadequate.

Also, God is not simply love. God is also holy, just, righteous, etc. Through the cross we see God's justice in that the price for sin was paid and His love because He gave His son so that we would not have to perish.
How does one measure the degree of mercy, or the degree of justice, that God chooses to exert at any given time? As we know, those concepts are mutually exclusive. God asks us to forgive and love even our enemies, yet God is "too holy" or "too just" to be as merciful and gracious as God asks us to be???

[mentored1]

Well met Kyle

If God is an all ultimate being and such, then it is assumed that God is incapable of feeling pain, right? If thats true then how can God have the need to save us through jesus, because if God feels no pain just love for us then there is no need for God to save anyone since God will always love us. What i'm thinking is that cause its such a great love it creates a need for God to save us? I'm a little unsastified with my own answer, but i think it can solve my question perhaps?:clueless:

The question's got a little fuzzy in this thread but I'll try and discuss some points that I think are relevant. If I don't help just shoot me :daveg:

I don't know if it's the concept of the trinity that creates an separation in people's minds but reading Scriptures about the relationship of the "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost" reveals that there is no separation. There is a changing of form but Christ is as much God as he is man: hence both titles 'Son of God, Son of Man' - or 'the Second Adam' who was God's son by rite of creation.

Nonetheless what Christ felt, based on this concept, is akin to what God felt. If Christ, as flesh and blood, felt pain in any way then did not God (who is Christ in flesh) also feel this pain? I'd suggest dispensing with the idea of a separate trinitarian view (if you have such a view) because it misses the fact that God is always present. If He created everything from nothing then He is in all things (an idea present in the Bible throughout). Hence by extension the pain each of us feels can be felt by God because God is all things.

As far as redemption goes there is a necessity that, methinks, is hinted at throughout Scripture. If Adam, be it all of creation for that matter, is as much God as Christ was because all things were brought forth from Him then, again the Bible says this, that God redeemed all things to Himself through Christ. God redeemed Himself, in a sense, through Himself.

Look at the picture shown by Christ: the physical is broken and destroyed but is reborn. Is not this the way of all things? Perhaps it is more of Christ as God displaying the cyclic nature of all things: birth, growth, death... Is it a coincidence that God is seen as three forms of one thing? That he was three days in the grave? There are three "realities" of heaven, earth, and hell - all of which God experienced at some point?

If I've gotten too far off-track my apologies... It appears, to me, that the Bible shows the divine (God himself) becoming just as all of us at some point were born, grow, and will die. The divine in the natural? Is that not a picture of redemption in itself?

Take care

[skiddumskay]

bump.

anyone care to respond to my points?

[guacamole]

If God is an all ultimate being and such, then it is assumed that God is incapable of feeling pain, right? If thats true then how can God have the need to save us through jesus, because if God feels no pain just love for us then there is no need for God to save anyone since God will always love us. What i'm thinking is that cause its such a great love it creates a need for God to save us? I'm a little unsastified with my own answer, but i think it can solve my question perhaps?:clueless:

The answer is really quite simple. God does not need to save us.

[Rossolini]

I think your first mistake KyleX0rz is to assume that "ultimate" means devoid of emotion and feeling. In my opinion, one who is perfect is not one who can only feel love, but can feel the depths of every emotion. Therefore I think when God expresses pain or emotion, it is often very serious and something to pay attention to. Christ crying is a vivid example of the depth of emotion. Even in the comfort of knowing God's plan, being his son, and doing his will, he still cried.

Also, if God's only feeling was love then he could not reasonably do anything since his emotion would reside on one feeling, and not on an array of feelings. That would therefore make God unjust, which both I and scripture disagree with.

[Hero of Dreams]

parent analogy is an horrible analogy imo, for one a little thing about me, i dont believe in the trinity persay(yes i know the trinity is scriptual), but thats different...Jesus could feel emotional distress and pain, because Jesus is flesh in blood, but God on the other hand can not feel emotional distress or pain, Since God cant feel pain, there would be no need for a savior right? but then what i said before about God loving so much he placed a savior, so yeah i anwsered my own question and you just sidetracked me, im just looking for others opinions on this cause im not really sasitfied with my own.

As previously stated: the Trinity is not necessarily Scriptural, in the sense that the word "Trinity" is never in the Bible. Well the word "grandfather" isn't in the Bible either, but does that suddenly make it nonexistant?

In 1 John 5:6-8, the writer talks about the "Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit." And at the end of the section he writes: "and these three agree as one." The Greek word for "agree" is "eisi," which simply meant "are, is, were." So replace the word with "agree" with one of the above, preferably "are" because we know God is eternal. "And these three are as one." Therefore there has to be some sort of connection (not necessarily physical, mind you) between these three beings, and that includes emotions.