Samuel...what do you think of the God Hater thread?

[GoBahnsen]

Hey Samuel, nice to meet you. I was wondering if you looked at the God Hater thread (sticky threads above)? There you have a group that holds to some kind of Calvinistic doctrinal perfectionism. Ever hear of Outside the Camp?

I just wondered where you are coming from. You are obviously here to promote Calvinism, which is fine by Tweb, but how do you perceive your own rescue from an unregenerate state, by God's grace? What means did God use in your own life to open your eyes to the doctrines of grace?

And what do you think is the best way to win others to the truth you have discovered. I ask, because I have had my own struggle to communicate what I truly believe. Without being wishy washy and yet not being rude. It's not always an easy tight rope to walk. At least, I have found it tricky. How about you?

God Bless, GB

[Samuel]

Hey Samuel, nice to meet you. I was wondering if you looked at the God Hater thread (sticky threads above)? There you have a group that holds to some kind of Calvinistic doctrinal perfectionism. Ever hear of Outside the Camp?

I just wondered where you are coming from. You are obviously here to promote Calvinism, which is fine by Tweb, but how do you perceive your own rescue from an unregenerate state, by God's grace? What means did God use in your own life to open your eyes to the doctrines of grace?

And what do you think is the best way to win others to the truth you have discovered. I ask, because I have had my own struggle to communicate what I truly believe. Without being wishy washy and yet not being rude. It's not always an easy tight rope to walk. At least, I have found it tricky. How about you?

God Bless, GB

Hi GoBahnsen,
I have not looked up the God hater thread and I have not heard of Outside the Camp, sorry. Well I go to a homechurch because all the churches in my community are arminian. It is sad, I know. Nobody seems like they preach truth anymore. In fact I believed arminianism was right, and I even defended it. I spent countless hours in the bible and reading and studying and thinking all this stuff through. I basically got to the point where I didn't know what was right anymore. I just saw myself as a terrible rotten sinner in need of a savior. I was brought up in a christian home. I am 18 years old and I struggle with sexual sin. It is humbling to admit that, but I am not perfect. When I was just a small kid I told my mom that I believed in Jesus Christ. I went on living and began looking at pornography and it ate its way at me. I realized that I was sinning and I became convicted of what I was doing. My conscience was bothering me very much. I then felt a very terrible sadness and darkness come over me for sinning. Even to this day I cry literally because I hate sin and I want to get rid of it so much. I think it was from that point of the conviction that God started to work in my life. I think God used my parents to teach and bring me up in a christian home. I knew what was right or wrong but I was still sinning and I think because of that God worked in me. Anyways I am constantly learning more about Calvimism and I realize the beauty in it now. I always thought God was cruel for only choosing some to be saved and not others and that we dont have a choice, I guess I was just like every other person. But I realized that I deserved hell just as much as anyone else but God was gracious enough to save me and preserve me to the very end. I don't understand why God chose me over someone else but all I can say is that God loves. I think the easiest way to win others over to the truth is to use scripture and try to make things as easy to understand as possible. You don't want to confuse people with big words and all that because they wont understand that stuff yet. Just preach repent and believe like John the Baptist did and if people respond we know its that God chose them. One last thing, I think Spurgeon is an awsome person to learn from. He was said to have been possible the greatest preacher ever lived.

I hope this has helped others and I hope I can be friends with everyone here on Tweb.

Sam :smile:

[Samuel]

I can be somewhat harsh on people I guess because I feel so passionate about the truth of Calvimism and I get so angry over Arminianism cause I know where Arminianism comes from and I have learned all about it and understand it from top to bottom, it's not like im ignorant of all this. My church group is calvinist and I had an open mind and wanted to study out Arminianism for myself and see what there side of the story was, well sure enough I did study it out and I started to believe it very passionately and I even defended it. I got all worked up and I cried many nights over it because I thought I was right and nobody else said I was, I felt like Calvinist were harsh and cruel. It wasn't until after reading spurgeons sermon no. 52 I think it was on Free Will-A slave that I saw for the first time that Arminianism was cleary of the devil. Anyways I now believe the reformers are right on with what they believe and do a very good job presenting it from scripture cause I believe Jesus himself taught the doctrines of grace. So now everyone knows where im coming from.

I am sorry if I have hurt anyone here on Tweb for being rude or whatever... We have far more in common in Christ than we do our differences.

[micah4]

Welcome to Tweb, Samuel.

[Ormly]

I can be somewhat harsh on people I guess because I feel so passionate about the truth of Calvimism and I get so angry over Arminianism cause I know where Arminianism comes from and I have learned all about it and understand it from top to bottom, it's not like im ignorant of all this. My church group is calvinist and I had an open mind and wanted to study out Arminianism for myself and see what there side of the story was, well sure enough I did study it out and I started to believe it very passionately and I even defended it. I got all worked up and I cried many nights over it because I thought I was right and nobody else said I was, I felt like Calvinist were harsh and cruel. It wasn't until after reading spurgeons sermon no. 52 I think it was on Free Will-A slave that I saw for the first time that Arminianism was cleary of the devil. Anyways I now believe the reformers are right on with what they believe and do a very good job presenting it from scripture cause I believe Jesus himself taught the doctrines of grace. So now everyone knows where im coming from.

I am sorry if I have hurt anyone here on Tweb for being rude or whatever... We have far more in common in Christ than we do our differences.

I don't believe you have a back bone.

[Assistant Junior Deputy Janitor Analogman]

.......that Arminianism was cleary of the devil.

Thats one of the most foolish phrases I've seen on TWEB. Its funny how the devil would influence Wesley in order to have Wesley preach the Gospel. In the NT, some said that Jesus was demonic. See the link? You need to rethink, fast.

Aman

[Samuel]

Thats one of the most foolish phrases I've seen on TWEB. Its funny how the devil would influence Wesley in order to have Wesley preach the Gospel. In the NT, some said that Jesus was demonic. See the link? You need to rethink, fast.

Aman

If you read John Wesleys biography it says he had a love affair with a women and he even believed in superstition. What a great Wesley you have.

[Samuel]

Thats one of the most foolish phrases I've seen on TWEB. Its funny how the devil would influence Wesley in order to have Wesley preach the Gospel. In the NT, some said that Jesus was demonic. See the link? You need to rethink, fast.

Aman

"Do all the good you can, by all the means you can, in all the ways you can, in all the places you can, at all the times you can, to all the people you can, as long as ever you can."
John Wesley

From the quote you can see that Wesley believed in perfectionism. Yep, he thought he could be perfect literally on earth. Thats the bottom line. Wesley was so legalistic, just take a look at the Wesleyean beleif statements...lol its like 15 pages long!!! He obviously also believed that you could lose your salvation...no wonder he made that DO ALL THE GOOD YOU CAN QUOTE, lol :lol:

anyways.. peace out :smile:
im going to start a thread on John Wesley the False Prophet.

[Alien]

..... I hope I can be friends with everyone here on Tweb.


We have far more in common in Christ than we do our differences.

So far so good. But then ....

I saw for the first time that Arminianism was [clearly] of the devil

And

[I'm] going to start a thread on John Wesley the False Prophet.

You are in for a rude awakening, Sam.

[GoBahnsen]

Oh well, like all of us, I think Samuel is trying to feel his way through the maze of Theological differences.
He's still new and hasn't found out how loveable you all are yet.


Today after Church, I was in a three way talk with my Pastor and a guy (ex -Calvary Chapel) who is going to join our Church. And we were talking about Garden variety Arminianism and Dispensationalism (as two separate theologies, though they often go hand in hand) and my Pastor said this "here's the thing...these people are generally better than their theologies. They hold to Arminian doctrines, but pray like Calvinists. 'Lord change Joe's heart, give him faith to believe, open his eyes to see Jesus, etc.'"

These are Calvinistic prayers, often prayed by non Calvinists. Non Calvinists should pray like this "Lord I hope Joe will exercise his faith. Lord I know you won't change his heart so woo Joe into changing his own please. Lord since you don't grant repentance, please be patient with Joe until he catches on"

No one wants to pray like this. Almost all Christians pray prayers like this "Lord thank you for opening my eyes to see Jesus." Seldom, if ever, do Christians pray "Lord I thank you that I made better use of prevenient grace."
Because...we almost inherently know that God sought us out when we were going astray. The non Calvinist will agree with that, but not in a pure sense. He ruins it by saying God is seeking each person as if they were His lost loved sheep. To the non Calvinist... the world is all lost or found sheep.

To the Calvinist the world is full of found sheep, lost sheep and goats. When the lost sheep hears the Gospel he believes. This is by God's predetermined council (Acts 13:48). When a goat hears, he doesn't get it. He might get excited for awhile, but then fades away. Ultimately only the elect persevere unto the end, by pure and powerful grace.

He who began a good work in us will complete it.(Phil 1:6)

Not "we" who began will complete it.

Anyway...let us continue to dialogue in a respectful manner. No need to trash each other, and I'm not accusing anyone per se. Just a reminder.

[Ormly]

Well, there are Calvinists and then there are Christians. As long as that is the rule by CC bigots, those distinctions will have to be made by discerning lovers of God..

[GoBahnsen]

Well, there are Calvinists and then there are Christians. As long as that is the rule by CC bigots, those distinctions will have to be made by discerning lovers of God..What are Continental Commentary bigots?

[micah4]

If you read John Wesleys biography it says he had a love affair with a women and he even believed in superstition. What a great Wesley you have.

Do we need to go into details on the lives of John Calvin or Martin Luther? I don't believe Wesley ever had anybody burned on a stake over green wood.

[micah4]

...and my Pastor said this "here's the thing...these people are generally better than their theologies. They hold to Arminian doctrines, but pray like Calvinists. 'Lord change Joe's heart, give him faith to believe, open his eyes to see Jesus, etc.'"

These are Calvinistic prayers, often prayed by non Calvinists. Non Calvinists should pray like this "Lord I hope Joe will exercise his faith. Lord I know you won't change his heart so woo Joe into changing his own please. Lord since you don't grant repentance, please be patient with Joe until he catches on"


Of course, given Calvinism's assertion of absolute theistic foreordination of all such things, it actually seems silly for men to ask God to do these things as if his doing was dependent on their asking, or as if their prayer might move God to action; or as if the enumeration of the specific elect and non-elect individuals fixed from eternity past might be rewritten in response to their petitions- so I suppose one could equally well say that the Calvinists tend to pray like Open theists.

[Ormly]

To the Calvinist: Doesn't it say that God's Grace is unmerited favor?

[Alien]

Oh well, like all of us, I think Samuel is trying to feel his way through the maze of Theological differences.
He's still new and hasn't found out how loveable you all are yet.

[....]

Anyway...let us continue to dialogue in a respectful manner. No need to trash each other, and I'm not accusing anyone per se. Just a reminder.

Amen. I believe you (and other Calvinists) are in a unique position to guide Samuel, GB. He's not going to listen to anyone else, as he seems to see the label before the person.

Tony

[GoBahnsen]

Of course, given Calvinism's assertion of absolute theistic foreordination of all such things, it actually seems silly for men to ask God to do these things as if his doing was dependent on their asking, or as if their prayer might move God to action; or as if the enumeration of the specific elect and non-elect individuals fixed from eternity past might be rewritten in response to their petitions- so I suppose one could equally well say that the Calvinists tend to pray like Open theists.Lets take a Biblical look at what you're saying. Yes God has ordained all things and He knows all things. This same God, then commands men to pray according to their own needs and the needs they see around them. So...I'm supposed to argue with God about the reasonableness of this?

I'm supposed to talk back to this Sovereign and explain to Him, that since He is going to do all His good pleasure, I should ignore His intstructions to me? I should show Him how silly it is for me to obey Him in prayer, because I can't figure out the why of it? Is that what you're suggesting?


Sort of like the Father who is going to build his house, and he is big enough and strong enough to do it alone, but he requests that his son help him. The son says "sure dad", but on his way to get the hammer, he reasons in himself that his father does not really need him...so he walks away in disgust. Shame on him.

[Ormly]

Amen. I believe you (and other Calvinists) are in a unique position to guide Samuel, GB. He's not going to listen to anyone else, as he seems to see the label before the person.

Tony

What makes you think Gobahnson sees it any differently? Any understanding one has that explains the coming of Christ for our salvation wasn't just about for getting to heaven, is heresy.

[Alien]

What makes you think Gobahnson sees it any differently? Any understanding one has that explains the coming of Christ for our salvation wasn't just about for getting to heaven, is heresy.

What I meant was guiding Samuel away from his current rather aggressive and offensive posting style. I'm not concerned about his theology, he can believe what he likes.