Say Goodbye to Nickels, Satan's Currency

[Piebald]

The Nickel's Satanic Origin

As you all know, because Easter comes from the pagan "Eoaster," a fertility demon, JWs do not celebrate this holiday.

I also urge JWs to give up use of the nickel, when is etymologically related to Satan:

From Etymology Online:

Nickel --- 1755, coined in 1754 by Swed. mineralogist Axel von Cronstedt (1722-65) from shortening of Swed. kopparnickel "copper-colored ore" (from which it was first obtained), a half-translation of Ger. Kupfernickel, lit. "copper demon," from Kupfer (see copper (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=copper)) + Nickel "demon, goblin, rascal" (a pet form of masc. proper name Nikolaus, cf. Eng. Old Nick "the devil;"

Take this into consideration the next time you accept "Nickels" into your coin purses.

Please also note that Pecans are also pagan in origin:

1712, paccan "the pecan tree," or a related hickory, from Fr. pacane, from Algonquian (cf. Cree pakan "hard-shelled nut," Ojibway pagan, Abnaki pagann).

[Dynasty]

As you all know, because Easter comes from the pagan "Eoaster," a fertility demon, JWs do not celebrate this holiday.

I am aware that Easter originates from the pagan Babylonian goddess called "Ishtar" who was part of a triad which included Shamash and Sin. These pagan gods existed in a time period when the true God, Jehovah, was operative in Israel, while their enemies on the other hand, the Babylonians, were sacrificing their young children to the god Ishtar.

Origins of Easter (http://www.factmonster.com/spot/easterintro1.html)

I also urge JWs to give up use of the nickel, when is etymologically related to Satan:

I do not come from the United States so I personally do not use the nickel anyway. However, I think it is high-time for me to give you a principled lesson from scripture:

Matthew 22:19-21: Show me the head tax coin.” They brought him a de·nar´i·us. 20 And he said to them: “Whose image and inscription is this?” 21 They said: “Caesar’s.” Then he said to them: “Pay back, therefore, Caesar’s things to Caesar, but God’s things to God.”

What can we learn from the above which is parellel to your above accusation? Well, if you knew anything about Roman mythology, they believed that Caesar was a god. Does this mean that Jesus Christ refrained from using the denarius, a form of currency which beared the name of the so-called pagan "god", Tiberius Caesar? Obviously not. Additionally, there are several accounts of Jesus using the denarius coin. Therefore, as long as we do not deliberately conform to such pagan activities within our power and do not participate in such ceremonies related to Easter, or any other pagan activity for that matter, we have done what we can do. Jesus did not worship Tiberius Caesar, but he did use a coin with his head and name on it. Was Jesus wrong? I'll leave you to do the simple math. Likewise, you cannot condemn us either.

Colossians 2:8: "Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry YOU off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ."

Would Jesus Christ celebrate easter? Could you classify easter as "according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ" like the above states? Yes. So would TRUE Christians celebrate easter? You do the math.

From Etymology Online:

Nickel --- 1755, coined in 1754 by Swed. mineralogist Axel von Cronstedt (1722-65) from shortening of Swed. kopparnickel "copper-colored ore" (from which it was first obtained), a half-translation of Ger. Kupfernickel, lit. "copper demon," from Kupfer (see copper (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=copper)) + Nickel "demon, goblin, rascal" (a pet form of masc. proper name Nikolaus, cf. Eng. Old Nick "the devil;"

Take this into consideration the next time you accept "Nickels" into your coin purses.

This is an incredibly weak argument - it suprises me you used bandwidth to make a thread of it. Nickel does not come from pagan origins (God created the metal which is known as nickel), like you suggested, but rather, is merely a name that man has given it, which partly means "demon". The fact that the name exists does not ban us from touching the metal God created and gave to mankind. Would it be wrong for us to say the word "demon"? No. The Bible talks about "demons" regularly throughout the Bible and by the saying the word we are not logically practicing and conforming to pagan rituals. What would be considered conforming to pagan rituals would be making an effort to involve ourselves in it's activites like the following. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4384841.stm)

Case closed.

Please also note that Pecans are also pagan in origin:

1712, paccan "the pecan tree," or a related hickory, from Fr. pacane, from Algonquian (cf. Cree pakan "hard-shelled nut," Ojibway pagan, Abnaki pagann).


This is laughable. It is amazing how weak an argument gets when they are on the way down and are downright wrong. For your information, God created the Pecan nut before any Pagan mythology ever emerged on this planet, let alone with it.

Dynasty

[Piebald]

I am so glad that you found the argument weak. It is weak, and absurd. It was posted with the seriousness of a car full of circus clowns careening off a cliff and crashing through the roof of a marshmallow factory.

Your counter-argument, however, provided us with everything we need for a rebuttal:

Easter is completely divorced from it's pagan origins in every meaningful way. The name "Easter" is merely a name that man has given a festival which honors God. The name may be etymologically related to some obscure pagan deity that 99% of Christians are completely unaware of, but this is irrelevent. The fact that the name exists does not ban us from celebrating the festial that Christians reformed in a way to honor God. If we had a holiday called "Zeus" in which we fed the hungry and witnessed for Christ, would this be unacceptable to God? It would be would it be no more unacceptable than using currency that man has actively named after his enemy, Satan.

[Meh_Gerbil]

*watches Hamster run off with bits 'o Dynasty stuffed in his fat lil' cheeks*

[Piebald]

:cool:

[Pretty Pink VICTORY]

It was posted with the seriousness of a car full of circus clowns careening off a cliff and crashing through the roof of a marshmallow factory.

:lmbo::lmbo::lmbo:

if that's not just the funniest thing i've heard all day! i needed that laugh!

:lmbo::lmbo::lmbo:

[Arnold]

Nickel is a primary alloy of most steels. JW's will now have to beam back up to their mothership to avoid all satanic metal things.

[Dynasty]

I am so glad that you found the argument weak.

Your welcome, think nothing of it.

It is weak, and absurd. It was posted with the seriousness of a car full of circus clowns careening off a cliff and crashing through the roof of a marshmallow factory.

It's hard to tell when people like you are joking because your arguments are usually weak anyway.

Your counter-argument, however, provided us with everything we need for a rebuttal:

Easter is completely divorced from it's pagan origins in every meaningful way. The name "Easter" is merely a name that man has given a festival which honors God. The name may be etymologically related to some obscure pagan deity that 99% of Christians are completely unaware of, but this is irrelevent. The fact that the name exists does not ban us from celebrating the festial that Christians reformed in a way to honor God. If we had a holiday called "Zeus" in which we fed the hungry and witnessed for Christ, would this be unacceptable to God? It would be would it be no more unacceptable than using currency that man has actively named after his enemy, Satan.

Hamster, since you are such an "authority" on the subject of easter, can you accomplish the following tasks:

- Give me a single Biblical scripture which validates the celebration of Easter in any of it's aspects.

- Give evidence that the 1st century Christians, the true Christians, which still had no foreign and pagan infiltration, actually celebrated easter.

- And finally, would Jesus Christ, who SWEAT BLOOD on the night before his death because he did'nt want to die on charges of blasphemy, turn around and celebrate a Pagan festival which orginated from the goddess Ishtar?!

Have an enjoyable time researching for the above answers.

Dynasty

[Dynasty]

First of all, the fact that you deny it's dark origin's on the simple grounds of 'it has been reformed' really does beggar belief and really is an unacceptable and feeble excuse. The apostle Paul warned Christians of infiltrations like these in Colossians 2:8 and 2 Timothy 4:3 and it's nice to see that people heeded his warnings. Nonetheless, let me wade myself through this alleged rebuttal...

Easter is completely divorced from it's pagan origins in every meaningful way.

Really? Try the following customs which are directly practiced in modern times:

Easter Eggs: Since the eating of eggs was formerly forbidden during Lent, “decorated eggs,” claims The Encyclopedia Americana, “could symbolize the end of the penitential season and the beginning of joyful celebration.” However, reference works agree that the egg was a symbol of life and fertility among idolaters. Says the book Celebrations: “Eggs were said to be dyed and eaten at the spring festivals in ancient Egypt, Persia, Greece, and Rome. The Persians of that time gave eggs as gifts at the vernal equinox.”

Easter Hares and Rabbits: In Europe, the hare has long been a traditional symbol of Easter. (In North America, the animal is a rabbit—a close relative of the hare.) Yet The New Encyclopædia Britannica explains that the hare was “the symbol of fertility in ancient Egypt.” Thus when children hunt for Easter eggs, supposedly brought by the Easter rabbit, “this is not mere child’s play, but the vestige of a fertility rite.”—Funk & Wagnalls Standard Dictionary of Folklore, Mythology and Legend, volume 1, page 335.

Sunrise Services: Says The Book of Festivals and Holidays the World Over: “It was a common belief among the early Christians that on Easter morning the sun danced in honor of the Resurrection and people rose long before the sun to see the feat. Perhaps this ancient belief is the inspiration for the many sunrise services that take place on Easter morning in all parts of the United States and Europe.”

But says Walsh’s Curiosities of Popular Customs: “This idea of the sun dancing on Easter Day may easily be traced back to heathen customs, when the spectators themselves danced at a festival in honor of the sun, after the vernal equinox.”

The book Celebrations adds: “Sunrise services are not unrelated to the Easter fires held on the tops of hills in continuation of the New Year fires, a worldwide observance in antiquity. Rites were performed at the vernal equinox welcoming the sun and its great power to bring new life to all growing things.”

Water Rites: The belief that running water on Easter morning is especially blessed is common. However, Hastings’ Encyclopædia of Religion and Ethics reminds us: “Since water is one of the essential factors in the preservation of life and the growth of the crops, it naturally plays a conspicuous part in rainmaking ceremonies and other seasonal rites among primitive people.”

The Blessing of the New Fire: A Catholic rite, in preparation for the Easter vigil, in which a fire is started from a flint rock. Says Hastings’ Encyclopædia of Religion and Ethics: “The new fire probably took rise from a pagan custom to which, when adopted by Christians, a gospel symbolism was attached.

The name may be etymologically related to some obscure pagan deity that 99% of Christians are completely unaware of, but this is irrelevent.

The fact that most people are ignorant to the above is still no excuse. The Bible clearly states in Romans 1:20-22 states: For his invisible [qualities] are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable; 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God nor did they thank him, but they became empty-headed in their reasonings and their unintelligent heart became darkened. 22 Although asserting they were wise, they became foolish 23 and turned the glory of the incorruptible God into something like the image of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed creatures and creeping things.

Jehovah is a God of exclusive devotion and there is no excuxe on this living earth, ignorant or not, that will make him water down that standard. (Exodus 20:5)

The name "Easter" is merely a name that man has given a festival which honors God.

Easter is only a name which has evolved from the goddess Ishtar in which innocent children were thrown into the fire on account of her. Also "The worship of this fertility goddess included frenzied dancing, self-laceration by the priests, self-castration by candidates for the priesthood, and processions in which the statue of the goddess was borne in much splendor."

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/i/ishtar.html

http://inanna.virtualave.net/ishtar.html

You're right - it's no big deal.

The fact that the name exists does not ban us from celebrating the festial that Christians reformed in a way to honor God.

Answer my question in the above post in which I asked you to show me a single scripture in the Bible which validates the celebration of Easter in ANY of it's aspects.

We're Christians, not freestylers.

If we had a holiday called "Zeus" in which we fed the hungry and witnessed for Christ, would this be unacceptable to God?
True Christians do not need the go-ahead from a pagan festival in order to be kind to their neighbor. Jesus did not wait for some foreign festival to arrive before he fed the 5,000 men not including the women and childred, did he? Additionally, there is no claus in the Bible that I am aware of which states that an act of goodwill has to accompanied by a "reformed" pagan ritual. Therefore, if it is good enough for Jesus it is good enough for me.

And to answer your question directly about a holiday called "Zeus", yes, it would be wrong. Interestingly, the apostle Paul and Barnabas were called "Zeus and Hermes" by the citizens of Lystra, and upon hearing it, they ripped their garments apart and told the people in Lystra to turn away from these "vain things". Enjoy the read in Acts 14:8-18. So Hamster, do you think that Paul and Barnabas would participate in a holday called "Zeus" bearing in mind that they were representatives of the true God? I'll let you answer that, because the answer is very transparent to me.

Dynasty

[Piebald]

EPISODE 2
EASTER PANIC!
[S]ome false brothers ha[ve] infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves.




the fact that you deny it's dark origin's on the simple grounds of 'it has been reformed' really does beggar belief


One wonders when I denied the 'dark origins' of Easter. Or should I say, the festival called "Easter" Which, thousands of years ago, to people with worldviews completely unfamilliar to those of us today, celebrated in a fashion that is completely divorced in context and meaning from the fashion it's celebrated today.

What I denied is that the festival "Easter" which was celebrated in many ways in pre-Christian Europe has any bearing on the mostly innocuous holiday celebrated by people today.

To say that the "Easter" celebrated by 21st century Americans must be abolished because of the "Easter" celebrated by pagans in the ancient world is absolutely absurd and speaks to the painfully superficial thinking that you and your mafia of Pharisees wish to saddle on the Free people of Christ.


Hamster, since you are such an "authority" on the subject of easter,


Well, I wouldn't say I'm as authoritative as, say, a bunch of heretical recreants who publish a magazine for their artless and simple followers, but we aim to please! :cool:


Give me a single Biblical scripture which validates the celebration of Easter


Don't need to. "Easter," to Americans, is a collection of activities which mostly includes:

1. Eating candy shaped like domesticated animals Motive: Savoring the sweetness of chocolate, or other sweet treat.

Presence of Sin: Little. There is a risk over over-indulgence, but over-indulging is not prerequisite for this activity.
2. Painting an egg with the purpose of making it look cute, or pretty. Motive: Making the Object more Aesthetic (favorable to the eye)

Presence of Sin: It is not Sinful to paint things for the purpose of making them pretty. Thus, there is no sin.

3a. Playing a game of "hide and seek" with the colored eggs Motive: Entertaining Children
Presence of Sin: It is not sinful to hide things from children for the purpose of entertaining them.

3b. Pretending an Anthropomorphic Rabbit Hid Colored Eggs Motive: Entertaining Children.

Presence of Sin: It is not sinful to create games about imaginary anthropomorphic rabbits (who are assigned no deeper significance) for the purpose of entertaining children. It may be pointed out that the Rabbit or Hare was used as a symbol in pagan religions, but this is as irrelevent as pointing out that the sun was used as well. If the sun is used in a pre-Judaic religion, does that mean that the Jews are pagan because they later use the Sun to describe God?
None of these things violate any principal of God. These activities are purely innocuous and contain no deeper significance to the participants. While these activities, like any other innocent activities, may be sinful if they distract a person from God, they are not sinful on the grounds of their so-called pagan nature.

"Easter" is etymologically related to some pagan cults and religions that existed thousands of years ago which no one is aware of anymore. Pointing out this etymological connection is as irrelevent as pointing out the etymological connection between "Nickel" and "Satan."


Give evidence that the 1st century Christians, the true Christians


The Fallacious Line of Reasoning here:1. If something is acceptable, it was practiced by the First Century Christians

2. X was not practiced by the First Century Christians

3. Therefore X is not acceptable.
The problem with this line of reasoning is painfully obvious.

Other such activities which were not practiced by the First Century Christians include Studying Science, Reading, and Speaking English.


Would Jesus Christ . . . celebrate a Pagan festival - - [?]


Yet another fallacy.

It's called begging the question. The pagan-ness of 21st century Easter is assumed in order to prove the pagan-ness of 21st century Easter. The "Easter" of the 21st century is no more pagan than "Nickel" is "Pertaining to Satan."



The apostle Paul warned Christians of infiltrations like these----


In order to apply either passage you would have to prove that common 21st century Easter traditions are pagan. Which is what you're trying to prove. In other words, you're begging the question again and hoping that no one will notice.

At this Point Dynasty cites several examples of behaviors and customs from thousands of years ago.

1."Easter" is etymologically related to some pagan cults and reliigons that existed thousands of years ago which no one is aware of anymore. Pointing out this etymological connection is as irrelevent as pointing out the etymological connection between "Nickel" and "Satan.

2. It doesn't matter if certain terms and practices originally had a pagan connotation. What matters is how they are being used.

Examples of Pagan beliefs being re-adapted for the New Testament:

1. Gehenna.Robertson's Word Pictures: Gehenna is the Valley of Hinnom where the fire burned continually. Here idolatrous Jews once offered their children to Molech (2Ki_23:10).
The New Testament uses Gehenna, a pagan sacrificial altar, to communicate Christian truths.

2. HadesWikipedia: Roman mythology, an entrance to the underworld located at Avernus, a crater near Cumae, was the route Aeneas used to descend to the Underworld. By synecdoche, "Avernus" could be substituted for the underworld as a whole. The Inferi Dii were the Roman gods of the underworld. The New Testament uses and re-adapts Pagan beliefs about Hades to communicate Christian truths.
3. TartarusWikipedia: In Greek mythology, Tartarus, or Tartaros, is both a deity and a place in the underworld - even lower than Hades. In ancient orphic sources and in the mystery schools Tartaros is also the unbounded first-existing "thing" from which the Light and the cosmos is born.
Yet another example of the New Testament re-adapting Pagan beliefs in order to communicate Christian truths.

4. Daimonion (Demon)

Wikipedia: For Greeks and Romans, daemons ("replete with knowledge", "divine power", "fate" or "god") were not necessarily evil. Socrates claimed to have a daimon that warned him and gave him advice but never coerced him into following it. He claimed that his daimon exhibited greater accuracy than any of the forms of divination practised at the time. The Hellenistic Greeks divided daemons into good and evil categories: eudaemons (also called calodaemons) and cacodaemons, respectively. Eudaemons resembled the modern idea of the guardian angel (see eudaimonia). They watched over ordinary mortals to help keep them out of trouble. A comparable Roman genius accompanied a person or protected and haunted a place (genius loci).

And Lo, a Pharisee, hearing that these nefarious pagan concepts had been adapted/reformed to teach Christian truths emerged from the crowd, shouting angry epithets at the New Testament authors:


[attachment=1]
"[T]he fact that you deny [these terms'] dark origin[s] on the simple grounds of 'it has been reformed' really does beggar belief and really is an unacceptable and feeble excuse[!]"

He tore his garment and screamed at the heavens:

"daemon, tartaroo, hades, etc. are terms and beliefs which have evolved from vile, disgusting pagan customs and practices! How can you say that using them to communicate Christian truths are 'no big deal!'

The true children of God do not need the go-ahead from a pagan festival, terms, and beliefs in order to communicate Godly truths! Moses did not wait for some foreign/pagan term to arrive before he ministered to the Israelites, did he? Additionally, there is no claus in the Bible that I am aware of which states that an act of goodwill has to accompanied by a "reformed" pagan ritual, term, or belief. Therefore, if it is good enough for Moses, it is good enough for me.!

And the Pharisee turned into a dove and flew into the arms of Johova.

[attachment=2]

[brother vinny]

Additionally, there is no claus in the Bible. . ..


Don't tell me that now that we've covered Easter, we're going after Christmas!

[Sparko]

It was a bit ironic to watch Dynasty go from chiding you on how the name "nickel" is ok, because we shouldn't be put off by mere names of objects, and then turn around and argue the complete opposite in regards to "easter"

Good thing I was not drinking anything at the time or you would have owed me a new keyboard, Hamster.


Don't forget not to use the names of the days of the weeks or months either! Most are named for pagan Gods or Ceasars

Monday = Moon Day
Thursday = Thor's Day
Saturday = Saturn Day
Sunday = Sun God Day

July = Julius Caesar
August = Augustus Caesar
October = Octavius Caesar

[Piebald]

Or that the Internet was developed by the military and JWs are not supposed to participate in military activities.

[Sparko]

Or that the Internet was developed by the military and JWs are not supposed to participate in military activities.

Shh! You will scare them all away.

And did you know that the watchtower bible and tract society was once a member of the United Nations? The JW's think the UN is Satanic (the dragon in revelation)
http://www.randytv.com/secret/unitednations.htm

[dizzle]

Hamster may I use your post in my blog?

[brother vinny]

It was a bit ironic to watch Dynasty go from chiding you on how the name "nickel" is ok, because we shouldn't be put off by mere names of objects, and then turn around and argue the complete opposite in regards to "easter"

Good thing I was not drinking anything at the time or you would have owed me a new keyboard, Hamster.


Don't forget not to use the names of the days of the weeks or months either! Most are named for pagan Gods or Ceasars

Monday = Moon Day
Thursday = Thor's Day
Saturday = Saturn Day
Sunday = Sun God Day

July = Julius Caesar
August = Augustus Caesar
October = Octavius Caesar

You skipped Wednesday which is Woden's Day or Odin's day (Norse God and father to Thor)

[Piebald]

Hamster may I use your post in my blog?

Absolutely! As long as you promise to fix the spelling and grammar errors :shifty:

[Sparko]

so what happened to this awesome thread!

Nickel for you thoughts.

[Arnold]

so what happened to this awesome thread!

Nickel for you thoughts.

You are obviously a Satanist...

[Sparko]

Or you are because you are tying to get a nickel from me! :tongue:

have a pearl instead.

[Arnold]

Or you are because you are tying to get a nickel from me! :tongue:Dang!

have a pearl instead.

OK