Forgiveness.

[Shayla]

When should we forgive someone? This poll is Paltalk inspired (thank you paltalk psychos). I would really like to get everyone's opinion on the issue.

[Xmansmommy]

When should we forgive someone? This poll is Paltalk inspired (thank you paltalk psychos).
Whoooohooooooo! I take it I'm NOT one of them???? ;) As for the poll, after my experience tonight on PT????.....hmmm.... only 1 and 3 apply :x

[Shayla]

Linda, I wouldn't ever call you a psycho. I must admit, I was a bit irratated when I made the poll. :argh:

[Xmansmommy]

Linda, I wouldn't ever call you a psycho. I must admit, I was a bit irratated when I made the poll.
Awww ty. And what had you upset tonight???? :(

[Shayla]

I got bounced out of a room for saying that I don't forgive Osama Bin Laden and God doesn't either. :shrug:

[Xmansmommy]

OUCH!!!! :rofl: :thumb:

[Xmansmommy]

Here's my reason for my rant....http://theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=441
:rant: :argh: :bonk: :argue: :noid:

[Xmansmommy]

grrrr..... can I vote twice???? :rant:

[Blake Reas]

This is one thing we must remember. Just because we forgive someone does not mean we forget about it.

In his saving Grace,
Blake Reas

Soli Deo Gloria:cheers:

[Shayla]

Blake, you sound like the guy that bounced me out of the room on Paltalk. I should write his name in an ugly color. grrr... no I'm not bitter. :)

[Xmansmommy]

You have a great point Blake. How true. Ummm.... you do know your avatar is scarey eh? ;) Hmmmm...kinda reminds me of the dude from Blade II :eww:

[Shayla]

Maybe I have forgiveness issues...

[nickcopernicus]

Nick:

Ths is the oldest Apologist Thread That I could find.

It rocks.

[Lost]

I have found that its better for me to forgive people even if they don't ask for forgiveness.
Contrary to common opinion I see that fogiveness can come in degrees, there is I guess a sort of complete forgiveness and then there are degrees of forgiveness as well - not a popular concept but it is my experience.
It is quite possible and beneficial to forgive someone who has not apologized.
Sometimes it might be best to confront the person and explain the hurt caused, sometimes it may not be wise or practical.
Forgiveness keeps relationships fluid and functional.
Forgiveness does not have to be 2-way it can be just 1-way if necessary.

[spitndirt]

Jesus said '...if your brother sins against you rebuke him. [IF] he repents frogive him...'.

Forgiveness is contingent upon repentance.....else the perpetrator is left in his ignorance. The rebuke will render his ignorance 'willful' if he doesn't repent.

[Lost]

Jesus said '...if your brother sins against you rebuke him. [IF] he repents frogive him...'.

Forgiveness is contingent upon repentance.....else the perpetrator is left in his ignorance. The rebuke will render his ignorance 'willful' if he doesn't repent.

No I disagree - there are times when it is better for the surfferer to forgive even when the perpetrator has not asked for it - in fact I would say that that is almost every time.
If in fact a christian does not forgive others, whether or not they ask for it, then God will also not forgive them (edit - ie the perpetrator) and so the christian is in effect leaving that person under a curse for what they did.

I have found no ill effect from forgiving others in my lifetime even when they have not asked for it - it is a real blessing to be able to do so - for both people.

[spitndirt]

No I disagree - there are times when it is better for the surfferer to forgive even when the perpetrator has not asked for it - in fact I would say that that is almost every time.
If in fact a christian does not forgive others, whether or not they ask for it, then God will also not forgive them (edit - ie the perpetrator) and so the christian is in effect leaving that person under a curse for what they did.

I have found no ill effect from forgiving others in my lifetime even when they have not asked for it - it is a real blessing to be able to do so - for both people.

You are disagreeing with Jesus then, not me.

You say '...and so the Christian is in effect leaving that person under a curse for what they did...'. Well yeah.....if you don't rebuke him. Repentance leads to a blessing not to a curse. What kind of love is it that does not rebuke a sinner? Is that how you would want to be treated??? Not me my friend. If I have sinned aganst someone I wish to know about it so that I have the chance to make things right. It is not a blessing to either person if Jesus' instructions in this matter are disobeyed. The one is left cursed....and the other will be cursed in the end. If we do not 'warn' people against sin and death (their own) then we will be guilty of their blood. If, on the other hand, we rebuke them - they repent - and we forgive them both involved will be innocent. If the one does not repent then the one who rebuked him will at least remain innocent.

I stand always ready and willing to forgive....but forgiveness can only happen when the transgressor confesses and makes a change. Otherwise it becomes a sort of narcasistic kind of forgiveness.....like - '...I'm so compassionate I forgive all men on behalf of all other men no matter what....and all men should do like me - that's just the kind of good person that I am...'. But that kind of forgiveness is worthless and ineffectual in the end....isn't it??? Who is turned from sin (that leads to death) by all that???

[Soyeong]

I think forgiveness is just like Salvation. God loves us and is always willing forgive us our sins, but unless we are made aware that we have done something that requires forgiveness, repent, and ask for and receive it, then it does not happen.

As far as the pole goes, we should immediately be willing to forgive them, but they are not actually forgiven until they accept your forgiveness. Likewise, we can be sorry and ask for forgiveness for something we have done, but we are not actually forgiven until they are willing to forgive us.

[Lost]

You are disagreeing with Jesus then, not me.

You say '...and so the Christian is in effect leaving that person under a curse for what they did...'. Well yeah.....if you don't rebuke him. Repentance leads to a blessing not to a curse. What kind of love is it that does not rebuke a sinner? Is that how you would want to be treated??? Not me my friend. If I have sinned aganst someone I wish to know about it so that I have the chance to make things right. It is not a blessing to either person if Jesus' instructions in this matter are disobeyed. The one is left cursed....and the other will be cursed in the end. If we do not 'warn' people against sin and death (their own) then we will be guilty of their blood. If, on the other hand, we rebuke them - they repent - and we forgive them both involved will be innocent. If the one does not repent then the one who rebuked him will at least remain innocent.

I stand always ready and willing to forgive....but forgiveness can only happen when the transgressor confesses and makes a change. Otherwise it becomes a sort of narcasistic kind of forgiveness.....like - '...I'm so compassionate I forgive all men on behalf of all other men no matter what....and all men should do like me - that's just the kind of good person that I am...'. But that kind of forgiveness is worthless and ineffectual in the end....isn't it??? Who is turned from sin (that leads to death) by all that???

Thats a very very harsh christianity you have there mate - you may say its biblical but I would say its not.
Talk to me in 40 years time when you have seen more of real life.
In my experience that sort of high-mindedness causes much sorrow and divisions.
Of course you will say that this is God's way - I stand here to disagree with you.
In family life I have found that its much better to bend a little and not be so dam harsh.
No wonder there is so much trouble in many christian families - too much rigidity and unforgiveness and high-mindedness.
God has and does forgive people even when they don't repent and so do I.
Check your bible - you will see.
So much harshness in christianity its no wonder its not attractive to the outside world.

[spitndirt]

Thats a very very harsh christianity you have there mate - you may say its biblical but I would say its not.
Talk to me in 40 years time when you have seen more of real life.
In my experience that sort of high-mindedness causes much sorrow and divisions.
Of course you will say that this is God's way - I stand here to disagree with you.
In family life I have found that its much better to bend a little and not be so dam harsh.
No wonder there is so much trouble in many christian families - too much rigidity and unforgiveness and high-mindedness.
God has and does forgive people even when they don't repent and so do I.
Check your bible - you will see.
So much harshness in christianity its no wonder its not attractive to the outside world.

Ok...I think see where you are coming from. Please note that I have been speaking in the context of 'the church' only and not of the world in general. And I would also like to say that everything people call sin is not necessarily sin. Many make mountains out of mole hills....you know, the gnat straining/camel swallowing thing. I'm not one of these. I'm speaking of obvious sin....like adultery and stealing - stuff like that. If I happen to find out that one who calls himself a christian is involved in sin such as this then I am obligated to warn him against continuing in it. If his crime is against me I am to warn him also. If he repents then he is forgiven....if not then he is left to the authorities in the church and then to God. I've experience much in my 45 years and still I find that it is better to persuade a brother against sin than to let him destroy himself through wilfull continuance in it. Contrary to pop-christian thought sin still does lead to death. It is harsh, then, to turn a blind eye....hate actually.

O and...sorry if the world hates the church. It has always been this way. When the world is loving the church then the church has become the world....since the world loves its own.

[Lost]

Ok...I think see where you are coming from. Please note that I have been speaking in the context of 'the church' only and not of the world in general. And I would also like to say that everything people call sin is not necessarily sin. Many make mountains out of mole hills....you know, the gnat straining/camel swallowing thing. I'm not one of these. I'm speaking of obvious sin....like adultery and stealing - stuff like that. If I happen to find out that one who calls himself a christian is involved in sin such as this then I am obligated to warn him against continuing in it. If his crime is against me I am to warn him also. If he repents then he is forgiven....if not then he is left to the authorities in the church and then to God. I've experience much in my 45 years and still I find that it is better to persuade a brother against sin than to let him destroy himself through wilfull continuance in it. Contrary to pop-christian thought sin still does lead to death. It is harsh, then, to turn a blind eye....hate actually.

O and...sorry if the world hates the church. It has always been this way. When the world is loving the church then the church has become the world....since the world loves its own.

Ok. I'm not at all involved in churches so my experience comes these days from wordly situations as you might call them. I have had my fill of churches and their leadership squabbles - I leave them to that which they do best - squabble.
There is an extent to which I agree with you - it is often important for the person concerned to understand the hurt that has been done, but there are a miriad of times when it is just a good idea to forgive and forget and absorb the damage.
The power to forgive others is a very great power as it leads to an inner peace that passes understanding.
I love the time when Christ, on the cross, asked his Father to forgive those who cause his death because they didn't fully realise what they were doing. We could debate all of this forever and a day like most things in the bible, but it does illustrate that God is not confined to only forgiving those who repent.
Life amongst a group of people, christians or otherwise, is much better when they learn to absorb some damage, don't harbour ill-feelings, and treat others as themselves.
Non-christians are, contrary to the opinions of some christians, capable of doing this, tho it is much easier as a christian.