class, college, cash

[Dracula Girl]

With college, the poor get financial aid, the rich can afford it, and the middle class gets nothing but some loans and debts. What might be some ways for the to change? Are there any realistic ways?

[Rubia Warren]

Anybody- rich,poor,middle class- can get scholarships. There are a ton out there. Many are not based on your GPA, and many are not based on income. I was surprised at the number of scholarships that are available for people who are not poor or get perfect grades. Some are just a matter of living in a certain county, is all the requirement. Some are for women, some ya gotta be hispanic to get, some are just open to all on a first come, first served basis. Some ya gotta write a cool essay to win, some you gotta do community service to win, etc.
What surprised me is that there is all this money out there to help people go to school...... yet an astounding number of people I have come into contact with don't even apply for them. They don't even try, but they complain (not that you do that, Joan- I am talking about many of the students I have come into contact with at school).

[learning]

This is true about scholarships, if you go to a homeschooling book called 'Homeschooling for Free' at the back, they've got tons of web sites that mention scholarships. I'll post a few after a joke I'm gonna tell.

I heard on a Canadian comedy show on t.v. that a kid was telling the parents, instead of putting all that money towards my tuition at school, why don't we invest it in some money fund, and after four to ten years, I'll be able to live off of that money instead of having to work for 10 years to pay it off? :)

www.scholarship-page.com

www.collegeboard.org/pay/




www.finaid.org


www.fafsa.ed.gov

(these are American, from book 'Homeschool Your Child for Free' by LauraMaery Gold and Joan M. Zielinski, year 2000)

[Dracula Girl]

Do you think that scholarships are enough to sort of level the field if you will between economic classes being able to afford college?

[James Peter]

You could go for a system similar to the UK where the government recognises that it benefits the country for people to have university-level education and so they largely pick up the tab. Under the system which is about to come in over here students pay nothing for their education until after they have graduated and only begin to pay back their loan (around $15k US for a standard 3 year course) once they are earning a certain amount (~$25k). The loan is matched to inflation so that it is effectively interest-free and all in all its a pretty fair system except that the poorest students are eligible for all manner of grants and burasaries (similar to your scholarships) to help them even more (Something i personally disagree with - the idea is a fair system and once they have graduated and are in their mid-20s parental economic backgrounds should be irrelevant).

Of course there is also a drive for all fees to be paid for by the government but Labour are strongly opposed to it as they don't like the idea of paying for it from general taxation.

So I guess thats what I offer as a suggestion - that the country recognises that if I go to college I'll earn more money and pay more taxes (could easily be, what, $750k of additional earnings over my lifetime which even at UK base rate is going to be around $150k in extra tax...and most will earn far more than that and so pay much more...)

[Rubia Warren]

Do you think that scholarships are enough to sort of level the field if you will between economic classes being able to afford college?
I'm not sure I get what you mean.
In your OP you mentioned that the poor get financial aid. If you are talking federal, then the poor get a Pell Grant. That kind of a grant at the most is just a few thousand dollars a semester- it isn't enough at many schools to even begin to pay for tuition completely.
As for scholarships and private money, yes, in many cases it does not cover every expense but reduces them dramatically. My brother is a good example: next year, he will be attending Hillsdale College in Michigan, which is a private school- they accept no government funds- even if one is poor. My parents are solid to upper middle class so they wouldn't qualify anyway. But his tuition is dramatically reduced by scholarships available, so he should go into debt no more than 8-10,000 by the time he graduates. He wants to be either a heart surgeon or a pathologist.
Another girl that I know has worked very hard with her grades, and she is actually getting paid to go to graduate school at Notre Dame. She is getting so much in private money, and the schools are all clamoring for her because she's an awesome biology student-or chemistry. I forget what she does. She will have a completely free ride and some money in her pocket each semester. So yeah, sometimes scholarships and private money really is enough.
Are you talking about not being a full time student and just taking a few classes? In that case, it generally shouldn't be all that difficult to do, if it's just one or two, and the person doesn't really have unusual circumstances.
Sometimes, people have to sacrifice in life to have what they really really want. If going to school full time is what they want, but they don't wanna pay as much for it, then getting good grades is a good idea, as well as being willing to sit down and fill out a huge stack of applications once a year. If they wanna pay as they go, and not go into debt at all, then probably a part time job delivering pizzas is a good idea. Maybe even working a full time job during breaks even if it's just for a few weeks, and then quitting to pay for that class or two. College is doable in many cases if a person really wants it.

[Ryokan]

Most people can afford college. They just aren't willing to sacrifice for it. I know. I am sacrificing right now.

[Dracula Girl]

For a lot of scholarships that I have seen, like at least 70% seem to require sizable essays usually on things I don't know much of anything about and or demonstraing financial need. Few of the others actually relate to things I've done, even though my extracurriculars have been a bit over done, just not in the right areas or whatever.

As for financial aid, I don't know must about it because my parents make to much for me to get any, hence I am now at a community college with $7,000 of debt from the CalState that I used to go to which I will have to pay back as soon as I am out of school. That wouldn't be so much, but things never really did work out for me to get much paid work experience in high school. I have a friend at the community college that I go to whose parents are both unemployed and have been for a while and she is probably going to go to UC Berkley or UCLA depending on which she gets accepted to. When I get my associates in Business and office technology (Associates in business isn't worth much in getting a job here), I will spend the next several years working full time and taking one class at a time in business, then being almost 30 I'll most likely either have my own biological children or I'll figure out how to do graduate school part time which I would really like to do. While my grades at the CalState were the worst I'd ever gotten, actually getting Cs in classes, my grades are better at the Community college and not much below my friend's. It was something she had said that made me think of making this thread. She said that it didn't seem fair that she would be able to have college paid for like that and I wouldn't.

"but they complain (not that you do that," you sure I don't?

Ryokan, are you sacrificing for full time or part time?

[Ryokan]

I am sacrificng for full time. Or 12 credit hours a quarter, at least. As is my wife. We both work full time, as well. I may have to slow down a bit since we had the baby, but Its gonna work out. And the mucho tax credits make it alot easier. But nobody owes me, or anyone else, college.

[Gideon Brown]

The army helped pay for my schooling.

[Dracula Girl]

Would you say then that the system is about as fair as it can realistically be?

[Ryokan]

If you get good grades, then I admire your study skills and discipline.
I have a 3.5, my wife 3.6, so we aren't briliant, but we get along. Really, I am a good bser and test well, so don't think to much of my discipline.

[Rubia Warren]

Most people when they go to college, it is a sacrifice. I don't think it really is very easy for anybody. Shoot, I have three kids and a household, plus a sick grandmother I clean for and take care of while going to school full time. Everybody sacrifices something when they go to school (well, almost everybody). What I am amazed at is this blind girl who goes to my college. I pass her every day when I have classes, tooling along with her seeing eye dog..... and I just find her an inspiration, even though the only time we've spoken is when she asked me to work the coffee machine for her once and hand it to her when it was done. She doesn't know it, but she is my personal hero.
One thing I have learned in my 30 years of existence, is that, generally speaking, of course, money is everywhere. It's just a matter of thinking cleverly enough about how to get it.
I really don't know why life is not equal for everybody, and why can't everybody just have an equal shot at everything, but instead of asking "why?" in observations, the question that is more constructive for our lives is "How?". How can I make it happen. And there are a ton of ways.

Fortunately for you, Joan, you are a member of the TWeb community. If you'd like to apply for some scholarships, but have a tough time at writing essays..... look around you. Look at some of the writing skills some of these people around here have. Hook up with somebody who writes well and ask them for some help.
If it's a matter of not knowing very much about the topic.... find out about the topics! Do some searches, read about it, heck.... start a thread about the topic and get different people's viewpoints. Ask someone who knows about a particular topic to help you out, or proofread what you say.
You aren't really stuck, Joan. You do have a chance. Just think creatively, and be willing to get told "no" many times before you are told "yes".
I filled out every single application for scholarships that were available. One was even for minority students with black people given preference. I applied anyway, even though I am not black. What if no blacks, by some fluke, fill out apps? They gotta pick somebody. So maybe they won't pick me. :nsm:But it took up all of about 10 minutes out of my life to fill out- what do I got to lose? You never know.
I meant this post as encouragement, not to tear you down. Hope it doesn't sound like I am being rude or something.

[Ryokan]

Would you say then that the system is about as fair as it can realistically be?
No, but then I'd say reality isn't fair. People are born with different skill sets and amounts of money. Some people get alot of both. Other get neither. But who are those that got less to declare they have a right to claim some of what other's recieved?

Our system makes it so that those who are serious about college can go, even if they have to sacrifice, without burdening the public too much with the cost or creating the European phenomenon of the permanent college student. It would be nice if all of us got a free ride to college. Believe me, I'd like it. But it would be to costly for our country as a whole.

[Teallaura]

There are other options besides scholarships (and granted they take work both to find and apply for - but they're giving you money so it's usually well worth it).

As Tuck mentioned there's military service - the G.I. Bill is still in effect and many (if not all) branches of service will pay you to go to college once your four years are up - the National guard is even easier.

There's also starting out in community college - usually much less expensive than a full four year university. Transferring in the third or even fourth year lets you graduate from the bigger school - and only the school you graduated from appears on your diploma. Same principal can be used with state/prestigious universities. State schools can cover the basics just as well and a lot cheaper. Working with an advisor can insure that your credits transfer when the time comes.

Yet another option is online college. Work and go to school at the same time. Again a good way to cover the basics - or most of grad school - until your presence on campus is actually required.

Internships, work study and good old fashioned get a job are all workable solutions - yes they may slow you down, but the debt will do that when you get out, so it's worth it. And internships and work-study look good on Mr. Resume down the line - as does a work history.

Some specialized professions (including some denominations for ministerial students) will help subsidize your education if you agree to work for them for a few years after college - it's a good deal as it assures you a job and a work history when it's time to move on.

Myself, I think there's serious room for scholarship coaches to help kids find those elusive scholarships and encourage applications. The shear number overwhelms many - but they're an underutilized resource and they need to be better exploited.

There's a final advantage to having to work at getting financing - virtually everything I mentioned can improve your resume - employers like go to folks who see problem and fix problem. On that sparse resume of a new grad a short explanation of how tenaciously you pursued scholarships (and even better helped others with what you learned) helps distinguish you from the ho hum crowd.

[Teallaura]

Our system makes it so that those who are serious about college can go, even if they have to sacrifice, without burdening the public too much with the cost or creating the European phenomenon of the permanent college student. It would be nice if all of us got a free ride to college. Believe me, I'd like it. But it would be to costly for our country as a whole.
*Emphaisi mine


Hey! I resembled that remark!!! :brood:

(Transferring and changing majors will slow you down if you don't plan carefully... which pushes up your cost even more.)