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View Full Version : Was Jesus A Muslims And What Was His Followers Called


Avraham
May 1st 2005, 08:03 AM
I don't want to disappoint you , But Jesus himself , Who The Muslims refer to by his Greek name . They say '' Isa or Esa which come from the Greek Iesous or Ee-Ay-Sooce . When the Muslims admit in The Quraan that he was A Jew And Was Sent To The Israelites and not to The Muslim .

Quraan 61;6 ( Yusef Ali Translation ) And I Quote ; And Remember (Jesus The Son Of Mary ; O Children Of Iseael ! ) I Am A Messseger Of Allah
( Sent ) To You , Confirming The Law ( Which Came ) Before Me , And Giving Glad Tidings Of A Messenger To Come After Me , Whose Name Shall Be Ahmad . But When He Came To Them With Clear Signs . They Said '' This Is Evident Sorcery ''

Or to be clearer , The Muslims refer to Jesus followers as '' Nasaara Or Ansaaru ( Quraan 5;82 , 61;14 ) . And I Quote ; '' O ye believer ! ( be ye helpers of Allah ) ; As said Jesus , the son of mary , To the disciples , '' Who will be my helper to ( the work of ) Allah ? Said the disciples , '' We are Allah's helpers ! ( Ansaaru Allah ) '' Then A portion of the children of Israel believed , and A portion disbelieved ; But we gave power to those who believe against their enemies , And they became the ones who Prevailed . '' < Another Mistake ; Which They Say Mean '' Christians .

However both '' Nasaara or Ansaaru Allah come from the root word Nasara which means '' To Help Or Aid '' The word Nasara , Nasaariy or Nasraaniy can be found in Matthew 2;23 , in the Arabic Bible , Where it says '' Wa - Ata - Wa - Sakana - Fee - Madeenatin - Yuqaalu - Lahaa - Naasiratu - Lekay - Yatemma - Maa - Qela - Be - Al - Anbeyaae - Innahu - Sayuda ' Naaseriyyaan '' And The word Naasiriyaan , As found in the above quote means '' The Nazarites or Nazarenes , Who were Jews .

In the book of Numbers 6;21 , Revealed in the year 1473 B.C.E. Which was revealed 841 years before The Quraan Of The Muslims . It mentions the Aramic Hebrew word Naziyr , And it say '' This Is The Law Of The Nazarite '' Naziyr '' Who Hath Vowed .. Showing that again , This word Nasaaraa was borrowed from the Torah into The Quraan , And this Aramic Hebrew word Naziyr , Also in Ashuric / Syriac Arabic Nadhiyr means '' Consecrated or devoted one , Nazarite , '' Andis the root of the word

Al Nadhiyr , meaning '' To Dedicate , Consecrate , To Vow , Make A Vow ; To Make A Solemn Pledge . '' The word Nazarite can be found in ,
Number 6;2, 6;13, 6;18, 6;19, 6;20, 6;21, Judge 13;5 , 13;7, 16;17 , The word Nazarites can be found in Lamentations 4;7 , Amos 2;11, 2;12 . The word Nazarene can be foundin Matthew2;23 And I Quote ; '' There he made his home in A twon called Nazareth , So that what had been spoken through the prophets might be fulfilled , '' He will be called A Nazorean .

The word Nazarenes can be found in Acts 24;5 , And the word Nazareth can be found in Matthew 2;23, 4;13, 21;11 , 26;9, Mark 1;9, 1;24, 10;47 , 14;67, 16;6 , Luke 1;26, 2;4, 2;39, 2;51, 4;16, 4;34, 18;37 , 24;19 , Acts 2;22, 3;6, 4;10 , 6;14, 10;38, 22;8, 26;9 ...

Also in The Qur'aan Revealed from 610-632 A.D. Nasaari , Can be found 15 times in Quraan 2;62, 2;111, 2;113, ( Twice ) , 2;120, 2;135, 2;140, 3;67, 5;14, 5;18, 5;51, 5;69, 5;82, 9;30 22;17,


Quraan 3;52 ( Yusef Ali Translation ) And I Quote ; When Jesus found unbelief on their part he said , '' Who will ( Be My Helper To ( The Work Of ) Allah ? '' Said the disciple ; '' We are ( Allah's Helpers ) '' We believe in Allah and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims .

So if any of you Muslims claim that you are Nasaari or Nasri Allah as found in Quraan 3;52 '' Man ' Ansaariii ' Ilallah ? Qaalal Hawaa-Riyyuuna Nahnu ' Ansaarullaah ; - Who Will Be My Helpers ( Ansaariya ) To ( The Work Of ) Allah ? Said The Disciples ; We Are Allah Helpers / Ansaar ,

And you call Jesus in Quraan 3;45 .... Masiihu 'Iisabnu - Maryyama -..
( Christ Jesus ( Al Masiyh Isa ) , The Son Of Mary , '' Then Jesus follower should be called '' Masiyhiyyn , Meaning '' Followers of messiah '' And Not Ansaariya meaning '' Helpers

However , there is another word in The Quraan 5;82 , For Christian , And that word is '' Qissiysiyn '' Qissii-Siina , Yet , another word grafted from the Greek word '' Kristianos '' meaning '' Christians , Follower Of Christ , as found Acts 11;26 , Where the follower of '' Eeaysooce '' Jesus '' Were first called Christians And it says ; And The Disciple Were Called Christian
( Kristianos ) First In Antioch '' The word Christian /Kristianos '' Is found two other times in The New Testament in Acts 26;28 and 1Peters 14;6 ,

So why do you Muslims keep borrowing Greek , Persian , Chaldean , Babylonian and Hebrew terms or words , Grafting them into your Quraan , If it is written in your Holy Quraan Chapter 18;1 '' Prasise Be To God , Who Hath Sent To His Servant The Book , And Hath Allaow Therein No Crookedness ( 'Iwajan ) . According To Lane Arabic English Lexicon , By Edward William Lane , , Part 5 , Page 2187 , Column 1 , 1St Paragragh , Iwajaan Is defined as ''It Was , Or Became , Crooked , Contorted , DISTORTED ,

Uneven , ''And In Hans Wehr Arabic English Dictionary , Edited By J .Milton Cowan , Third Edition , Page 653 , 1St Column , Paragraph 4, ' Iwaj Is Defined As Crookedness , Twistedness , Curvature , Bending , Tortuosity ; Unevernness ;Deviation ( From That Which Is Right ) .

So If There Is No Crookedness , Distortment Or Deviation In The Quraan , Then Why Is There A Necessity To Borrow Foreign Words And Incorporate It In The Quraan , If There Are No Crookedness In It ?

The Nazarites Spoke Aramic /And Hebrew , And Because Of The Popularity Of The Aramic Language , Coming From A Son Of Shem , Genesis 10;22 , Aramic Further Developed Into More Than Dialects , Such As Galilean , Spoken By The People Of Jesus Time In Palestine . The Book Of Revelation Was Originally Written In Galilean Aramaic / Aramic .

In The Aramic And Hebrerw Languages . Jesus 'Name Would Not Be '' Isa , Issa , 'Iysa , Essa ; The Name Is Yashu'a In The Old Testament Jesus Is Found In Deuteronmy 34;19 ,Number 13;16 In Aramic / Hebrew As Yehowshuwa, meaning '' Jehovah Is Salvation . '' For The Name Joshua Or Jehoshua , And In Deuteronmy 32;44 In Aramic / Hebrew As Howshea meaning '' Salvation '' .

For The Name Hoshea , It also found in 2Chronicles 31;15 , In Aramic / Hebrew As Yeshuwa meaning '' He Is Saved '' . For The Name Jeshua . These Names Are All From The Same Root Word Yshu'a In Aramic / Hebrew. It '' Sh '' And In Ashuric / Syriac Arabic Its ''S '' So Again , The Quraan Is Wrong !

According to '' Islam Revealed , A Christian Arab's View Of Islam '' By Dr . Anis A . Shorrosh . Page 82 States . '' Isa is the name given to Jesus in The Quran , '' Both Christian and Muslims Have wondered for centuries why he is called '' Yesu '' as The Gospels have it in Arabic . Here is the reason .

Muhammad used the name '' Isa '' In Good Faith After Hearing It From The Unbelieveing Jews In Medina In Their Hatred , The Jews Ridiculed Jesus By Calling Him Esau . TheRejected Brother Of Jacob Who Lost The Blessing . The Declared That The Soul Of Esau Had Been TAransformed Into Jesus .

Muhammad picked up this name and put it in His Arabic Tongue And Applied it to Jesus without carrying with it the derrogatory meaning given by The Jews . So Esau and Y'shua would not have the same root word in Aramic / Hebrew afterwards The Greek Took Esau's name and made it Iasous or Ee-Ay-Ssoce for Jesus then finally the Arabs took it and made the word 'Esa / Isa ' Iysaa . Again , Why such hatred for Jesus ? Obviously you Muslims feel threaten by Jesus To Equate him with the supposedly hated Esau .

Plagerism is not allowed. Neither is quoting huge amounts of copyrighted information

jason
May 1st 2005, 08:09 AM
Except Mohammed was a false prophet and Jesus was the Son of God, Truly God of Truly God. He said as much.

I don't see why I should take the word of an arabian moon worshipper over the words of God Incarnate. Seems like a poor choice really.

Jason

Avraham
May 1st 2005, 12:17 PM
I only accept chapter and verse Only , Ok

Avraham
May 1st 2005, 12:19 PM
By the way the trinity doesn't exist in the Bible and his name Yashu'a ,

jason
May 1st 2005, 05:21 PM
By the way the trinity doesn't exist in the Bible and his name Yashu'a ,
Actually it does, and his name title is Christ.

Jason

Avraham
May 1st 2005, 07:57 PM
Prove It .....

Conductor42
May 2nd 2005, 01:51 AM
One - The allah = moon good argument is bullhonkey. It's simply the arabic equivalent of eloah or elohim. It is a generic term, just like the previously mentioned hebrew words. It is not uncommon for words that generally end in ים in Hebrew to drop the ending in Arabic. Besides, elohim has been translated into arabic as allah as long as arabic has been around.

Saying "allah" means a pagan moon god is no more correct than saying "el" is a caananite deity. Yes - both may have been refferred to by that title. No - the title is not specific to that diety.

Avraham
May 2nd 2005, 08:42 AM
First Hebrew Is Not A Language Duhhhhhhhhh

technomage
May 2nd 2005, 08:46 AM
First Hebrew Is Not A Language Duhhhhhhhhh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_language

jason
May 2nd 2005, 09:24 AM
One - The allah = moon good argument is bullhonkey.
It seemed more polite than "demon" and noting that mohammed was a superstitious devil worshipper.

Jason

Avraham
May 3rd 2005, 02:03 AM
Christian = Back-wards mean Anti-christ = His Son Jesus

Conductor42
May 3rd 2005, 09:20 PM
First Hebrew Is Not A Language Duhhhhhhhhh

הלשון הקדש עברית

שמע בני אדמים! השם - הו אלוהים!

Now, if Hebrew is not a language, then what I just said doesn't mean a darned thing.

But, please tell me, if Hebrew is not a language, what language is spoken in Israel, and what does the line below mean?

בראשית ברא אלוהים את השמים ואת הארץ

FYI, that's the first line of the Bible. In it's original language - Hebrew.

עברית לשון - Hebrew (is a) language

Conductor42
May 3rd 2005, 09:21 PM
Avraham, you really need to clean up your language and be polite. You are making yourself look by a fool by the way you are interacting with others.

Recognitiones
May 3rd 2005, 10:29 PM
For such an interesting name of a thread this has turned out to be a real blowout! Avraham, you have not made your question clear. Are you asking if Jesus and his followers were Muslims as simply being the the Arabic for "servants of God?" Or are you making a failing case for them praying toward Mecca?
Jason, what you've said makes you deserve such lameness.
Yoshiyahu I think you meant to use אדם, it is never plural, and unless the second part is supposed to be mixed with Syriac it should be הוא.

Conductor42
May 4th 2005, 01:32 AM
You're right - I should have used anasheem.

Conductor42
May 4th 2005, 01:33 AM
and you caught a spelling error on my parts. Pearls to you :)

Mr. Tinkles
May 4th 2005, 02:25 AM
I was about to say that but was beaten to it... :-)

Avraham
May 4th 2005, 06:49 PM
What Is The Meaning Of The Word Hebrew And Where Did It Come From ?The Word Hebrew , In Aramic , Is The Word Ibriy Which Comes From The Root Word Abar . Which Means ; '' To Cross Over , To Pass Over '' In The Aramic / Hebrew Language , In Ashuric / Syriac / Arabic , The Word Aabiyr , For '' Eber '' , Means '' The One Traverses And Ebra Meaning '' To Traverse ; To Expound '' '' Traversing '' As Used In The Person To Whom The Name Was Given Fiest . Was Eber , Son Of Salah , Son Of Shem , Son Of Noah , As Found In Genesis 10 ; 21




Noah ( 2970 -2020 B.C.E. ) Son Of Lamech And Kamilah Genesis 5; 29 ..
Shem ( 2470 - 1870 B.C.E. ) Son Of Noah And Namah Genesis 5;32
The Name Eber , Also Abar , Ay - Ber And Heber , Means The Region Beyond ''
From This You Get The Derivative Of Eber , Hebrew , To Mean '' One Who Crossed From Beyond One Region To Another '' Or Simply '' To Cross Over '' Genesis 14 ; 13 And That's Just What Hebrew Means '' To Cross Over ,
Is The Word Hebrew , The Name Of A Tribe Or A People




According To Deuteronomy 15; 12 , In The Strong's Concordance The Word '' Hebrew '' Ibriy Is Not The Name Of A Tribe Or A People . Hebrew Is Just A Title For What Abraham And His People Did Not What They Were . The Word Hebrew Is Merely Describing An Acts Of A People Or A Person ; Moving From One Side To Another , And Could Apply To People Originally Born On One Side Of The Mississippi River , And Deciding To Relocate To The Other Side Of The Mississippi River . In English They Would Be Called '' Crossed Over '' In The Canaanite Language They Would He Called Hebrew , Which Later Was Picked Up And Because Their Name . As You Have Seen , The Name '' Hebrew '' Existed Before Abraham With A Man Name Eber . People Think That The Word Hebrew Stems From The Word Hebron Genesis 13; 18 The Name Of A Place In The Hill Of Judah South Of Jerusalem Where Sarah Died Genesis 23 ; 2 . However , If You Check It Out In The Original Language . You See It Does Not . Now Take A Look At The Word Ibriy . The First Letter Aiyn Is The Hard A Or I In Hebrew . The Root Of Ibriy Is Abar





Meaning '' To Cross Over '' Whereas . The Root Of 'Hebron ' Chebrown Pronounced Khebronee '' Is Cheber Meaning '' A Society ; Also A Spell , Charmer , Enchatment '' These Two Words Do Not Have The Same Root , Therefore , You Can See That They Are Not The Same Word By Their Roots
What Is The Meaning Of The Word '' Israel '' And Where Did Come From ?
The Word '' Israel '' Yisra'el Pronounced Yis - Raw - Ale In Aramic / Hebrew , And Israa'el In Ashuric / Syriac / Arabic Means El Prevails '' As If God Could Lose . In This Case , The Translation Of Israel . Which Would Be '' God Prevails Or Won '' Is First Used In Genesis 32; 38 As The Name Of Jacob ( Koran 2; 132 - 133 ) Then As A Nation Koran 2; 47-53 In Reference To Jacob , Son Of Isaac , Son Of Abraham , Who Was Running From His Brother Esau In Fear , For His Life .




Genesis 32; 38 ...
Jacoh ( 1918 - 1771 B,C.E, ) Son Od Isaac And Rebekah ( Genesis 25; 26 )
Jocob Was Running From Esau , Because Of An Evil Act That He And His Mother Rebekah Commited . By Straling Esau's Brithright ( Genesis Chapter 27 ) And Deceiving Their Father Issac , In His Old Age In Blindness ( Genesis 27 ; 1 )
Isaac ( 1978 - 1798 B.C.E ) Son Of Abraham And Sarah ( Genesis 17; 19 )
Rebekah Daughter Of Bethu'el And Zigiaq ( Genesis 22; 23 ) ..
In The Process Of Trying To Run From His Brother Esau . Jacob Was Stopped By What Follwers Of The King James Bible , Called An Angel , That Was Obviously In Human Frorm , In Order For Jacob To Be Able To Wrestle Whith Him , And In Genesis 32 ; 24 Jaocb Wrestled With An '' Eesh Meaning '' Male Living Being , Physical Man ; An Angel Who Wrestled And Caused Jacob's Thigh To Go Out Of Joint Genesis 32; 25 Before Blessing Him And Chaning His Name From Jacob To Israel Genesis 32; 28 ...




How Can '' Hebrew '' And '' Israelites '' Be One In The Same When The Word Hebre ?
If They Were , They Would Know That The Word '' Hebrew '' Is A Title That Was Attributed To Abraham When He Traveled From Ur Of Chaldees , And Crossed A Strip Of Land Called Mesopotamia , Which Is Nestled Between The Tigris - Euphrates River . Abraham Son Of Terah ( Genesis 11; 27 ) He Was Attributed The Title '' Hebrew '' When He Traveled From Ur Of Chaldees And Crossed The Mesoptamia Genesis 14; 13 Abraham Was In Route To The Land Of The Canaaites . Which Was Promised To Him And His Descendants Who Were Destined To Come From His Seed For An Everlasting Possession Genesis 17; 8 . Abraham Met A Group Of Phoenician - Canaanites ( The Canaanite Tribe Of Sidon Who Mixed In With The Assyrians ) Who Witnessed Abraham Crossing The Tigris - Euphrates , And Referred To Him And His Family As Ibriy '' One Who Passed Over , Joseph , Son Of Jacob , Son Of Isaac , Son Of Abraham . Was Also Called A '' Hebrew '' In Genesis 39 ; 14 ...In Genesis 32 ; 31 The Word '' To Pass Over '' Is The Hebrew Word Abar Meaning '' To Crossover '' And In Arabic ,, You Have The Same Word Containing The Same Letters ; '' Aiyn '' Beh '' Rah '' Abara Meaning The Other Side Or Cross Over '' Which Is The Same Root The Word Hebrew Comes From Genesis 32; 31 .. In This Quote , It Is Referring To When Jacoh , The Father Of Israel , Passed Over [ From The Abar ] The River , From One Side To The Other . ..

You were warned about a dozen times about plagerism and posting this nonsense. Stop it

Conductor42
May 5th 2005, 03:45 AM
Spam about עברית from a person who can't make up whether or not the language exists. Please get rid of it.

Avraham
May 10th 2005, 08:04 PM
You Should Know Fool

Krusader
May 11th 2005, 02:07 PM
Yosh, I think you're wrong on the "allah" = "God" post. There is a lot of scholarship out there that would disagree with that. Probably allah derives, in fact, from a'lat. The origin of "allah" is rather murkey, I think, but he was only one of the deities in the Ka'ba before Moahmmed came on the scene - he was not the chief deity, but rather Hubal was considered as such.

Conductor42
May 11th 2005, 08:15 PM
Crusader,

When I was a Karaite, IIRC, I did some searches to find out what "elohim" was translated in arabic in the oldest arabic translations and it was "allah". If you can find any evidence to the contrary, I would be glad to view it.

Do you know of any other words in arabic which mean "god"?

Recognitiones
May 11th 2005, 11:20 PM
Shlam Yoshiyah,
I have for the most part assumed Allah to be related to the Aramaic Alaha. I've read somewhere that Maimonides made a Hebrew transliteration of the Quran, although I have no clue what he did with the Hamza. If anyone knows I would greatly appreciate learning as I've attempted similar projects. I also need ask: what led you out of Karaism?

Conductor42
May 12th 2005, 08:15 PM
transliteration or translation? I'll ask my elders to see if they know if he made a translation of the T"NK into Arabic.

As to your other question, the quick answer is that I found Karaism lacking in many areas an unable to satisfactorily answer or explain many things. A long answer would require a new thread. Maybe in the future I'll do a thread on it again.

Recognitiones
May 13th 2005, 12:35 AM
transliteration or translation? I'll ask my elders to see if they know if he made a translation of the T"NK into Arabic.

What I have heard regarding him was a transliteration not only of the Quran but other Arabic literature, although I wouldn't be surprised about a translation. I don't know, maybe he just liked Arabic better that way; this isn't the kind of stuff that is readily available. I've heard about a Hebrew translation in one of the Spanish Genizas but it is not accessible to me. If you are looking for an Arabic version of the TNKh, I believe I read somewhere about Saadia Ben Yosef.

As to your other question, the quick answer is that I found Karaism lacking in many areas an unable to satisfactorily answer or explain many things. A long answer would require a new thread. Maybe in the future I'll do a thread on it again.

If you ever do, I think I would find it to be of interest. But don't bother for my sake, I already have an aversion to them.

Conductor42
May 16th 2005, 07:00 PM
I inquired into this matter with my teacher, and he did not know the answer so he asked one of his elders. He asked R. Broyde, who responded that he was unaware of any translation of the T"NK being done by the Rambam.

I don't think there is a Hebrew translation of the Qu'ran that has been completed (yet), because I've seen a few Muslim sites that are raising money to create the first one. There are many arabic translations of the T"NK, the oldest (IIRC) being done by the Karaites.

Recognitiones
May 17th 2005, 01:32 PM
Dear Yoshiyahu,
I inquired into this matter with my teacher, and he did not know the answer so he asked one of his elders. He asked R. Broyde, who responded that he was unaware of any translation of the T"NK being done by the Rambam.

No, the Arabic translation of the TNK was by Saaida ben Yosef not Maimonides. I believe he finished it. That is all I've heard.

I don't think there is a Hebrew translation of the Qu'ran that has been completed (yet), because I've seen a few Muslim sites that are raising money to create the first one. There are many arabic translations of the T"NK, the oldest (IIRC) being done by the Karaites.

No, a transliteration not a translation of the Quran by Rambam. Although I don't know how much he did, possibly little, he supposedly transliterated other Arabic writings as well. Maybe look in the Cairo Geniza? The Hebrew translation of the Quran I read of is on a website for some University's study of a Geniza in Spain. I don't know if anyone knows who actually did this translation and I believe it is fragmentary. Lehitraot

Krusader
May 19th 2005, 01:30 PM
Yosh, I don't think there is any scholarship out there that can prove conclusively the exact origin of "allah." However, when you compare this allah to the God of the Old and New Testaments, it is very obvious that you are dealing with another deity. Mormons can call their deity "God" as well, however they are speaking of a deity apart from Christians and Jews.

barnasha
May 22nd 2005, 01:34 AM
hi guys,

allah is "al ilah", or the only item (not object) of worship.

it means something like 'the god', like 'eloah' in hebrew, or as stated above on this page, 'alaha' in aramaic. the islamic tradition has a saying, 'la ilah illallah', or 'no god but the one true god', ie, al-ilah, (shortened as usually so in arabic to 'allah')