View Full Version : Our Featured Member Article: The Rote of Worship by Trout
Editor
May 7th 2005, 09:25 PM
Shall we turn in our hymnals to number 237 . . .
Those words are probably familiar to a vast majority of church-goers, who, dutifully, turn to the required page number and sing, or at least lip-sinc along with the worship leader. Such is worship in many Evangelical, as well as Liturgical churches nationwide. Three verses and three choruses from three or four hymns, written by someone, somewhere. Sometimes church-goers are required to stand for one or two of the songs --perhaps as some sort of stimulant to prevent a journey into rem-state --after which, the pew positions are re-established, and church goes on as usual.
Is that what worship is all about? Is that what God seeks from His people?
Now many of God's people , later in the same day, can be found parked in front of a TV somewhere, worked into a lather, as they watch their favorite sports team chase the: puck/ball/pigskin, around the: diamond/rink/ grid-iron/court. And I can certainly see why they become mesmerised, I mean after all, it takes a lot of talent to knock a golf ball 300 plus yards, or throw a 95 MPH heater. Or even better, have you seen some of the latest end-zone dances, choreographed and performed by the NFLers? They are so well done they would bring Bob Fosse to his feet in appreciation. How about some of the grand entrances made by professional sports teams? The players are made welcome by throngs numbering in the tens of thousands, as they run frantically out of the giant, smoking helmet, prodded on by some sort of mega-electrically amplified ear piercing "music" and make their way onto the playing surface. And that's just the beginning of the game. It's easy to see why many love to pine away in admiration when after 500 laps around an oval, the driver triumphantly climbs out the window of his car, takes his position on the cab, and lifting both arms skyward, he taunts his vanquished challengers, to the sheer delight of a million screaming fans.
Let's face it . . . God simply cannot compete these days.
He hasn't kept up with 21st century mankind, or at the very least, He's not closely following the trends. Perhaps if He were to complete a hat-trick in a big game, He would garner more attention. Have you even seen Him enter the slam-dunk contest at the All Star game? I haven't. I've never seen Him hit one into the ocean at SBC Park, like Mr. Bonds has. I mean, even the burning bush tale seems to pale in comparison with our modern day pyrotechnicalia. Maybe if the worship of God were more exciting, we'd be more prone to enjoy it? Or at the very least, participate in it. It's a multi-media world, shouldn't an Omni-media God, be able to find some adoring fans?
Let's be honest my Christian friends, first let me say, "let him who has never taken an impatient glance at the clock at the back of the Sanctuary, cast the first stone". Attending church is my primary goal on Sunday morning, with the worship and adoration of God being the main facet of that weekly experience. But, reluctantly I must admit, very often, there are other things that I want to engage in on Sunday also. And oftimes I do find myself distracted by the things that lie in store after the act of church has finished. And guess what else . . . I AM THE WORSHIP LEADER. I know, I know, it's shameful, you'd think that the one person who would find himself immune to lackadaisical worship habits, would be the worship leader, go figure.
Now, hold on just a cotton picking minute.
Can any worship leader compete with the myriad of entertainment options available to the average American? I don't know any worship leader who would stand a chance against U2, or the Superbowl Halftime show, at least in shock and awe. But,is worshipping God about church goers being entertained? No, not at all. The act of worshipping God has little if nothing to do with being entertained. It's not just a filler between Sunday School and the sermon. It very well may be the most important time spent in church, the time when our souls can cry out in praise and thanksgiving to the Most High, Who has delivered us from the bondage of sin and death and made us alive -- truly alive -- in Christ our Lord.
Come to think of it.
I believe that the very best worship service recorded in all of scripture, was in Exodus. You remember the story, Moses had left the Israelites encamped at the base of the mountain, he went upward to receive the tablets of stone, in the interim, some of the folks came to Aaron, "Look," they said, "make us some gods who can lead us. This man Moses, who brought us here from Egypt, has disappeared. We don't know what has happened to him." Aaron, being the temporary leader, gave the people what they wanted. And what followed was a worship service, the likes of which would make the most seasoned, modern day, reveller blush (I can only speculate as to whether or not there was a "wardrobe malfunction"). Maybe you get my point; worship isn't about what we want, worship is about adoring God. Another thing we learn from the Exodus story is the fact that God is not impressed by mis-directed pomp and ceremony.
So what does all this mean?
My point is: Worship is a posture of the heart, worship is really a lifestyle of behavior which is pleasing to God, not just three or four hymns on Sunday. But don't get me wrong, those three or so hymns are very important too. If I might make a suggestion; when the worship is about to begin, prepare yourself to meet the Living God, put away any notes you may have been taking, stop any conversation you might have been a participant in, don't go over your grocery list in your head as the music begins, if your children are fidgety, take them out, or at least, get them to behave. It's hard enough to worship under the best of conditions, get rid of any un-necessary distractions. And most importantly . . . SING. I know, some of the songs are just to high to reach, do your best. I know, you sit right behind Mr. So and So, who is always loud and off key, do your best. I know, some of the words are dorky, do your best. And remember, you aren't performing for the other members of the church, you are directing your expression to God. He knows the sound of your voice, and more importantly, He knows the sound of your heart, when it's enraptured by His majesty.
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Leroy
May 16th 2005, 03:20 PM
Nice article trout.
I liked that last paragraph.
Sometimes I get in the rut of thinking the service is not the way I like it, and think it should be altogether different, the pastor said something wrong or somebody said something that just bugged me. I go into worship with that attitude. Then as I'm singing, I'm thinking or daydreaming of something else, I catch myself doing that and try and focus but a lot of the time it just doesn't work. I know that is not the way you worship the Almighty, that's not worship at all. I might as well be washing my car or something. Other times during the day, I'm just awestruck by God, I set or walk or drive thanking God for who he is, for what he does for this selfish old sinner. When these things come to mind, I really feel like I'm truly worshipping God.
My question is when you sing a song, and agree with it, but it does not bring you to your knee's is that worship, or just spinning the prayer wheel?
robin
May 26th 2005, 06:11 AM
Hmm interesting q Leroy. I think that it takes time to get into the presence of God enough to desire to be on your knees before him, therefore i see nothing wrong with agreeing with a song without being on your knees. It's about getting yourself into His presence.
Troutk13 - I see exactly where you're coming from, however I do think that you have maybe been a little cynical. Not all churches are quite that bad, I think my church is actually fairly good (one of the reasons I chose to go there). Yes, people still come in the morning not really prepared for worship but on the whole I think we're good. I recently went to a friend's church and they were, frankly, amazing. The service started and the entire congregation (except me and the wife who were a bit stunned) simultaneously burst into tongues worship, wow! (This the UK btw) on fire or what! But, yes, worship is an area we can all still work on.
In Christ
Robin
Trout
May 26th 2005, 09:23 AM
Thanks for the comments Robin, and welcome to Tweb. :greetings:
Tween
May 27th 2005, 03:38 AM
I agree with that and more, but how about the "rote" of preaching. I think I have heard all the alliterations through the entire alphabet: Sermon titles - "the Power,patience and practice of prayer"; "the goodness, grandeur and glory of grace"; "judged, justified,and joyess", etc. The lack of true worship and these examples are just a few of the reasons why I started to question the Christian faith and decided that it was ineffectual in my life. I have seen the light and now live with reverence in my heart each minute of the day.
Findo
May 28th 2005, 12:36 AM
Trout... great article...
It's even worse when you wrote the song!
George Blaisdell
June 3rd 2005, 11:08 PM
Shall we turn in our hymnals to number 237 . . .
Such is worship in many Evangelical, as well as Liturgical churches nationwide.
May I humbly suggest that you find someone nearby who is an Orthodox Christian and ask them to take you to one of their Liturgies, Russian Orthodox, Greek, or Antiochian preferably, but any will do, and then get back on this page and tell me what you find. I predict you will be very pleasantly stunned by what you experience in a two hour standing service that is chanted and sung front to back...
I was simply overwhelmed at my first service, and remarked that I would become Orthodox if they would just let me sing in the choir... The service is a departure from earth, and a participation, while on earth, in the heavenlies... There is nothing on earth that even comes close to an Orthodox Liturgy...
'Course, that is just my opinion, mind you... :-)
Arsenios
Trout
June 3rd 2005, 11:57 PM
May I humbly suggest that you find someone nearby who is an Orthodox Christian and ask them to take you to one of their Liturgies, Russian Orthodox, Greek, or Antiochian preferably, but any will do, and then get back on this page and tell me what you find. I predict you will be very pleasantly stunned by what you experience in a two hour standing service that is chanted and sung front to back...
I was simply overwhelmed at my first service, and remarked that I would become Orthodox if they would just let me sing in the choir... The service is a departure from earth, and a participation, while on earth, in the heavenlies... There is nothing on earth that even comes close to an Orthodox Liturgy...
'Course, that is just my opinion, mind you... :-)
Arsenios
Thank you for the recomendation, I've been witness to a few Orthodox Liturgies, and I must confess, they are very beautiful.
But that is part of the reason I wrote the article, worship isn't about how we are affected, or about what kind of a dreamlike trance we manage to achieve, worship is entirely about God, completely apart from our feelings; don't you agree?
George Blaisdell
June 4th 2005, 09:04 PM
Thank you for the recomendation, I've been witness to a few Orthodox Liturgies, and I must confess, they are very beautiful.
Glory to God!
To some, they are repugnant...
But that is part of the reason I wrote the article, worship isn't about how we are affected, or about what kind of a dreamlike trance we manage to achieve, worship is entirely about God, completely apart from our feelings; don't you agree?
Well, we could all go swimming in raw sewage to worship God, yes? Right into the ooze of created humanity's habit of overeating... And we could call it worship because our feelings would be of vomit and stench and wretching... And since our divine worship, in your view, should be completely divorced from our feelings, the worse the feelings, the greater the divinity of our worship...
I mean... YIKES!!
We inherited the liturgical tradition of worship from the Jews, but changed to be obedient to Christ. In terms of Jewish cults, the Christian Jews were not as far out as were many of the others. We began pretty mainline, in terms of Jewish worship of the first century.
The key term I think you are looking for, in emotional terms, is perhaps 'transcendance'... For in worship, in our ascent in the Spirit unto the heavenlies, we set aside all thoughts and human derived feelings, and ascend in spirit and in truth... And when this happens, our response varies from person to person. There are people - Saints on this earth - who cannot attend a divine liturgy without crying untrollably. The rapture of that ascent is reported to be both humbling and exalting... For our human nature, fallen and weak, is humbled exceedingly, and our new creature in God is exalted in His presence...
So it is not that our human feelings should be divorced from our worship, but that in worship, our human side is set aside, as we set aside all worldly cares, and enter into the presence of God, in the worship service of the Church, which is participating in the worship of the heavenlies at the Throne of God and the Lamb...
God is not apart from our feelings, but in Him, we find the feelings that are in union with God in us... And there is mystery and enigma in that state. We have Churches named "Joy of All Who Sorrow"... For "Blessed are they who mourn, for they shall be comforted..."
One's response to an Orthodox Liturgy is often the call one gets to become Orthodox... Not always, but often - For we are all fallen, and it is through our fallenness, even our emotions that are themselves fallen, that we are drawn forth unto God... The transcendance comes later, normally after purification of the heart in repentance and in the living of a Christian life...
Making any sense for you at all?
Arsenios
Rubens
June 7th 2005, 12:53 AM
Hi all
Trout, I see what you mean, but I suppose I am sitting on the fence here (I always enjoy that, nice vantage point). I once heard a sermon about sermons, and how people file out of the church and say "great sermon, pastor. I really enjoyed it" and the big question is; is that really important... did GOD enjoy it?
Of course, but sermons still have the important role of teaching and equipping and some learn better with enjoyable sermons and wacky pastors. Same with worship. To that end, I reckon a love of music in general is a handicap for worship: I have the easy excuse "I don't like this song".
Well, we could all go swimming in raw sewage to worship God, yes? Right into the ooze of created humanity's habit of overeating... And we could call it worship because our feelings would be of vomit and stench and wretching... And since our divine worship, in your view, should be completely divorced from our feelings, the worse the feelings, the greater the divinity of our worship
:rofl: love it. I don't quite think that was what Trout meant, but you have a heck of a funny way of making the point. Although I like my music modern, I have to admit that a strong choral piece can send me into a near tearful state of complete awe and love for our God, whereas "Shine Jesus Shine" will send me to the back door.
If what Trout means is "Praise despite your circumstances" then I fully agree. I have recently learned, due to a depressing conflict with an angry, unbelieving family member, that it is time I stopped using excuses and start acting joyful during worship. I believe it is very scriptural that this surrender of your feelings does actually lead to true joy.
I just haven't done it yet... :wink:
George Blaisdell
June 7th 2005, 05:33 PM
:rofl: You have a heck of a funny way of making the point. Although I like my music modern, I have to admit that a strong choral piece can send me into a near tearful state of complete awe and love for our God, whereas "Shine Jesus Shine" will send me to the back door.
You are right, that is not what Trout meant, and I was but really overstating to make the point - And from the Orthodox perspective, the whole issue is one of the service allowing, and not disallowing, the phronema and the nous of Christ in us. For as Paul writes, "We have the nous [mind] of Christ." And he is speaking of the mature in Christ.
And it is for this reason that Orthodox churches are so beautiful, and their services so beautiful - not as a substitution for God, but as a means in the fallen world of apprehending the world of the heavenlies...
Now lemee outta this raw sewage pond!
Arsenios
Jezz
June 9th 2005, 12:24 AM
Thank you for the recomendation, I've been witness to a few Orthodox Liturgies, and I must confess, they are very beautiful.
That is a start. :smile:
I have to agree with George (as usual) - there is something transcendent about Orthodox worship services. I went to one this Pascha. Due to a prior engagement I didn't feel I could miss (sister's birthday party), I was an hour late, and the service went for another 2 hours, 20 minutes after that. And it was all in Arabic, and I don't understand Arabic. And yet, not once did I look at my watch (whereas in my Lutheran church, I do sometimes flick ahead through the liturgy book to see how much longer the service has to go... and it's usually only about an hour!). For me, time seems to stand still in an Orthodox liturgy.
But that is part of the reason I wrote the article, worship isn't about how we are affected, or about what kind of a dreamlike trance we manage to achieve, worship is entirely about God, completely apart from our feelings; don't you agree?
Hmm, rather than answering this question outright, perhaps I will get you to ponder a question: Why does God command us to worship Him? Are we to worship Him because He needs us to and won't be complete unless we do? Or are we to worship Him because we need to and we won't be complete unless we do?
Findo
June 10th 2005, 12:01 AM
Hmm, rather than answering this question outright, perhaps I will get you to ponder a question: Why does God command us to worship Him? Are we to worship Him because He needs us to and won't be complete unless we do? Or are we to worship Him because we need to and we won't be complete unless we do?
It's got nothing to do with needs. We worship God because it is what He deserves.
Also, we see from scripture that Worship is always on God's terms. He defines what is worship, and we don't get to define what our worship will be.
Hail Mary
June 13th 2005, 11:20 PM
Nice post Trout! This is a subject which fascinates me, something I've spent quite a lot of time exploring and I'm sure there's a lot more to learn. Anyway, its good to see others fascinated in this topic.
I recently surfed into this link (The Gnosis of The Eucharist) (http://www.gnosis.org/gnosis_eucharist1.html) which has some interesting observations about the purpose of the mass (and presumably the rote of worship), not all of it is applicable and has a distinctly gnostic flavor, but here's "The Money" Quote:
Through it [rote of worship] we are led step by step to the purpose of our earthly lives -- union with the divine
The Rote of worship prepares us for union with the divine (which is almost what Robin says above).
May I humbly suggest that you find someone nearby who is an Orthodox Christian and ask them to take you to one of their Liturgies, Russian Orthodox, Greek, or Antiochian preferably, but any will do, and then get back on this page and tell me what you find. I predict you will be very pleasantly stunned by what you experience in a two hour standing service that is chanted and sung front to back...
Excellent observation Arsenios. I would add the Catholic mass as another humble observation, of course, and also the Jewish liturgy.
I was raised an evangelical protestant and as a kid always wondered why there was such a strong ritualist sequence to our services, the ritual's purpose, and the differences between various denomination's rituals. Here's a stab at some explanation:
Orthodox, Catholic - Rote of worship is to prepare the people for the transcendent experience of the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist.
Liturgical Protestants (Lutheran, Anglican) - The transcendent experience has become less mystical, and more philosophical, but the rote of worship is still to prepare for the philosophical experience of Christ in the Eucharist.
Mega-churches, the rote of worship is designed to compete with U2 and the Superbowl half time show, but also culminates in the 'alter call' offering a transcendent salvation experience amid fireworks and electric guitar riffs.
Some middle-ground of Protestantism is hard to classify between liturgical and mega-church areas, but the rote of worship is more oriented to the 'alter call' salvation experience and less on competing with U2.
I think they are still working out the purpose of the mega-church rituals, so its a work-in-progress with the results still untested, but to some degree even the Orthodox and Catholic rituals evolve to better prepare modern humans for unity with the divine.
Findo
June 14th 2005, 09:26 PM
Some middle-ground of Protestantism is hard to classify between liturgical and mega-church areas, but the rote of worship is more oriented to the 'alter call' salvation experience and less on competing with U2.
I think that 'middele-ground' protestants (e.g the Baptist church I go to?) is to prepare not for an altar-call (We have not had one in quite a while) but to meet with God corporately and hear from Him through His word.
Hail Mary
June 14th 2005, 10:43 PM
I think that 'middele-ground' protestants (e.g the Baptist church I go to?) is to prepare not for an altar-call (We have not had one in quite a while) but to meet with God corporately and hear from Him through His word.
Sorry if middle-ground came off as a pejorative term. How about non-Liturgical/non-MegaChurch Protestants?
I'm searching for the unique reasons for the rote of worship. I understand that worship [should] prepare us for Christian living, and during worship we should praise and thank God, study the scriptures, etc... But that isn't something unique to worship itself, that is something we should do all the time. Likewise, a worship service is not necessary to meet God corporately, study scripture, sing hymn 237, etc...
The reasons for the rote of worship are pretty clear elsewhere. Its an unusual service in a mega-church where there aren't answers to the alter-call. The service always culminates in some individual's deeply transcendent salvation experience, which is shared by the members of the congregation. The liturgical Churches always culminate the mass/service with the deeply transcendent experience of the Eucharist shared with all members of the Church.
So, I'm still trying to figure out the unique reasons for worship in the realm of the non-Liturgical/non-MegaChurches. Admittedly, the reason why I'm perplexed could be that each Sunday for 18 years I sat in a Baptist Church pondering this question, and never came up with an adequate answer. I could have studied the Bible much more effeciently elsewhere, and if 'works' were not necessary for salvation then why was I working so hard to get out of bed every Sunday morning? If I wanted to be enraptured by God's majesty, a nice picnic in the park would have been more appropriate, or a camping trip.
Trout
June 15th 2005, 12:24 AM
That is a start. :smile:
I have to agree with George (as usual) - there is something transcendent about Orthodox worship services. I went to one this Pascha. Due to a prior engagement I didn't feel I could miss (sister's birthday party), I was an hour late, and the service went for another 2 hours, 20 minutes after that. And it was all in Arabic, and I don't understand Arabic. And yet, not once did I look at my watch (whereas in my Lutheran church, I do sometimes flick ahead through the liturgy book to see how much longer the service has to go... and it's usually only about an hour!). For me, time seems to stand still in an Orthodox liturgy.
Interesting.
Arabic? Where in the world were you?
Jezz:
Hmm, rather than answering this question outright, perhaps I will get you to ponder a question: Why does God command us to worship Him? Are we to worship Him because He needs us to and won't be complete unless we do? Or are we to worship Him because we need to and we won't be complete unless we do?
Good question. I believe that we were created as worshipping beings, designed to worship The Most High God, however, somewhere along the way humanity took a wrong turn. In the aftermath, humanity hasn't shed its desire to worship, we have forgotten what the object of our worship should be.
I believe a day is coming when we will not need to be commanded to worship God, we will worship Him continually. I believe that mankind's chief purpose is to glorify God. To say that God "needs", or that He isn't "complete" is to describe a being that doesn't deserve our worship. However I do believe that it's God's desire that all of His creation worship Him.
Findo
June 15th 2005, 10:20 PM
I'm searching for the unique reasons for the rote of worship. I understand that worship [should] prepare us for Christian living, and during worship we should praise and thank God, study the scriptures, etc... But that isn't something unique to worship itself, that is something we should do all the time.
That is worship. Worship isn't only what goes on in a church building on a sunday morning, it should be a whole of life affair of giving glory to God in all that we do. If it isn't, then what happens on sunday morning is actually offensive to God. The worship that happens collectively in church buildings should be the overflow of lives of worship.
Likewise, a worship service is not necessary to meet God corporately, study scripture, sing hymn 237, etc...
Then what is it for?
The reasons for the rote of worship are pretty clear elsewhere. Its an unusual service in a mega-church where there aren't answers to the alter-call. The service always culminates in some individual's deeply transcendent salvation experience, which is shared by the members of the congregation. The liturgical Churches always culminate the mass/service with the deeply transcendent experience of the Eucharist shared with all members of the Church.
So, I'm still trying to figure out the unique reasons for worship in the realm of the non-Liturgical/non-MegaChurches. Admittedly, the reason why I'm perplexed could be that each Sunday for 18 years I sat in a Baptist Church pondering this question, and never came up with an adequate answer. I could have studied the Bible much more effeciently elsewhere, and if 'works' were not necessary for salvation then why was I working so hard to get out of bed every Sunday morning? If I wanted to be enraptured by God's majesty, a nice picnic in the park would have been more appropriate, or a camping trip.
If you think of it in the individual sense you probably won't find the answer. It is a corporate gathering that is meant to edify one another, to spur one another on to love and good works. We meet together precisely because God has told us we should. And in meeting together, it's for God and one another. It's not meant to be about transcendant experiences, but meeting as the bride, the church, with God to honour Him together, and hear from Him through His word. As is my understanding, liturgies were created to facillitate this somehow..?
Hail Mary
June 16th 2005, 12:40 AM
If you think of it in the individual sense you probably won't find the answer. It is a corporate gathering that is meant to edify one another, to spur one another on to love and good works. We meet together precisely because God has told us we should. And in meeting together, it's for God and one another. It's not meant to be about transcendant experiences, but meeting as the bride, the church, with God to honour Him together, and hear from Him through His word. As is my understanding, liturgies were created to facillitate this somehow..?
I mostly agree with everything you've written, except when it comes to transcendent experiences. Christianity itself is based upon the supreme transcendent experience of Christ's resurrection, so the point of worship should somehow include a way of reflecting on the mystery of Christ's resurrection. I was thinking of this in terms of the eucharist, or the alter call, but I suppose simply gathering to worship Christ can be another way to accomplish this.
Findo
June 16th 2005, 10:04 PM
I mostly agree with everything you've written, except when it comes to transcendent experiences. Christianity itself is based upon the supreme transcendent experience of Christ's resurrection, so the point of worship should somehow include a way of reflecting on the mystery of Christ's resurrection. I was thinking of this in terms of the eucharist, or the alter call, but I suppose simply gathering to worship Christ can be another way to accomplish this.
I don't really understand what you mean by 'transcendant experience' as I think I'm understanding it to be some kinda feeling-experience?
And we don't experience Christ's resurrection in the eucharist...
Hail Mary
June 17th 2005, 12:43 AM
I don't really understand what you mean by 'transcendant experience' as I think I'm understanding it to be some kinda feeling-experience?
A belief in Christ's resurrection could be described along a spectrum. On one end is an event that we can completely understand and describe. On the other end of the spectrum is something that completely transcends or ability to understand and describe.
I think most people would view some aspects of the resurrection as knowable, and others as mysterious. So the 'transcendant experience' is the climactic culminating experience of a mass or service carefully designed to bring us closer to the mysterious aspects of the resurrection, or presence of Christ in the eucharist, or salvation.
In the 'rote' of worship, why is there a sequence of sitting and standing, with 3 hymns, a prayer, a sermon, a climactic alter call, and a dismissal hymn?
I concluded the 'rote' of worship found in many western Protestant Churches was basically a variation of the Tridentine mass split off from the Catholic Church at the beginning of the reformation. As time passed, and new Protestant Churches formed, some of the items in the mass carefully designed for the experience of the eucharist, were lost. Some items such as the alter call were sometimes added to replace the transcendent experience of the eucharist, while other items of the mass were retained but now appear to be meaningless.
Or they appeared to be meaningless to me, if you've found meaning in them, then that is fantastic because it brings you closer to God.
Findo
June 19th 2005, 10:38 PM
In the 'rote' of worship, why is there a sequence of sitting and standing, with 3 hymns, a prayer, a sermon, a climactic alter call, and a dismissal hymn?
I concluded the 'rote' of worship found in many western Protestant Churches was basically a variation of the Tridentine mass split off from the Catholic Church at the beginning of the reformation. As time passed, and new Protestant Churches formed, some of the items in the mass carefully designed for the experience of the eucharist, were lost. Some items such as the alter call were sometimes added to replace the transcendent experience of the eucharist, while other items of the mass were retained but now appear to be meaningless.
Or they appeared to be meaningless to me, if you've found meaning in them, then that is fantastic because it brings you closer to God.
Apart from the sterotype of western protestantism, I would suggest that there is in fact no meaning in the standing to sing, appart from it being easier to actually sing...? We sing and we pray and we read scripture and we exposit scripture because that is what the bible calls christians to do... is there any meaning further needed?
Hail Mary
June 29th 2005, 12:35 AM
Apart from the sterotype of western protestantism, I would suggest that there is in fact no meaning in the standing to sing, appart from it being easier to actually sing...? We sing and we pray and we read scripture and we exposit scripture because that is what the bible calls christians to do... is there any meaning further needed?
The reason for searching for meaning is that it connects us with the earliest Christians. The meaning behind standing is FAR from simply improving our singing capabilities. If you look at very early Christian art, such as images in the catacombs, the gatherings of Christians are usually depicted with people standing in the orant position. Here's a pretty cool site (http://www.catacombe.roma.it/) but you can google it yourself if you would prefer. During the gatherings, one common instance of standing in the orant position occurred at the moment the bread and wine were consecrated.
Catholics continue to stand precisely at this moment in time in the mass, as I'm pretty sure the Orthodox do too. Protestants stand for the alter call (don't they?). So, at least this element of the rote of worship has a very VERY rich heritage for all Christians. It is the climactic spiritual event of our worship with shared ritualistic elements for all Christians throughout history.
(Sorry for the delay in answering, I was away on vacation)
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