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View Full Version : Watchtower and false prophecies



ApologiaPhoenix
June 8th 2005, 06:31 PM
Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NWT

However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. And in case you should say in your heart: "How shall we know the word that Jehovah has spoken?" when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptiousness, the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him.

Reasoning From The Scriptures page 132 under the heading "False Prophets"

Definition: Individuals and ORGANIZATIONS proclaiming messages that they attribute to a superhuman source but that do not originate with the true God and are not in harmony with his revealed will.

The following can be taken from "Forananswer.org" http://www.forananswer.org/Top_JW/WalshTrial.htm

I will post part of it here though because not everyone will go to the site and this needs to be seen by everyone.

In 1954 in Scotland the Jehovah's Witnesses sued the Ministries of Labour and National Services. This was a test case brought by the Society to set a precedent for future Witnesses.


The complete record of this trial is available to anyone for the price of the microfilm (details at the end of this article). It is the invaluable testimony given by the leaders of the Society. They make admissions in court that they have not made anywhere else

Those who testified for the Society were Fred Franz, the Vice-President; H.C.Covington, the head legal counsel of the Society at that time; Grant Suiter, the Secretary-Treasurer of the Society; A.R.Hughes, the British Branch Servant; and D. Walsh, the Congregation Servant who brought the suit. Just a few quotations appear in this article, those covering interesting statements. They speak for themselves.

During the trial Fred Franz, Vice-President of the Society, gave the following answers:
Q. Who is responsible for the interpretation in case of doubt, or in general, of scriptural writings for the guidance of Jehovah's Witnesses?
A. We believe that Jehovah God who is author and inspirer of the Bible is he one who makes the interpretations. he is his own interpreter. He does this by the use of his invisible active force, the Holy Spirit acting upon the mind of his witnesses upon this earth, and he causes events to come to pass in the earth which are in fulfillment of his prophetic word and which, therefore, throw light upon the true significance of his word.

Q. That is very helpful, but it does not quite meet the point I was making. What I want you to tell me was whether you can say how the Biblical texts are authoritatively interpreted: who is the interpreter?

A. Jehovah God is the interpreter, but he guides his people upon this earth, and in this case the editorial committee of the Society, they study the Scriptures continually, and they examine and re-examine the evidence as it appears, and under this Divine guidance with the help of the Holy Spirit they arrive at an understanding of the Scripture.

The rest I have been asked to cut short as it is from a full web page. This has been a preview. Again, I encourage anyone to go to the website and read the whole thing along with ordering information on receiving a transcript from the government offices yourself if desired.

Further, look still at the claim found in the publications themselves.

"More accurately, was there any group on whom Jehovah would be willing to bestow the commission to speak as a 'prophet' in His name, as was done toward Ezekiel back there in 613 B.C.E.? (The Watchtower, 3-15-72, p. 189). "It is of importance to every individual on earth to identify the group that Jehovah has commissioned as his 'servant' or messenger.... For this reason forthcoming issues of The Watchtower will further discuss the identity and work of Jehovah's commissioned messenger as revealed in His vision to Ezekiel" (The Watchtower, 3-15-72, p. 190). "So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come? These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? ...This 'prophet' was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses... Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a 'prophet' of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. What does it show? (The Watchtower, 4-1-72, p. 197). "The scroll was doubtless delivered to Ezekiel by the hand of one of the cherubs in the vision. This would indicate that Jehovah's witnesses today make their declaration of the good news of the Kingdom under angelic direction and support. (Rev. 14:6, 7; Matt. 25:31, 32) And since no word or work of Jehovah can fail, for he is God Almighty, the nations will see the fulfillment of what these witnesses say as directed from heaven. Yes, the time must come shortly that the nations will have to know that really a 'prophet' of Jehovah was among them." (The Watchtower, 4-1-72, p. 200).

Having said all this, let's look at some predictions.

1889 "Be not surprised, then, when in subsequent chapters we present proofs that the setting up of the Kingdom of God is already begun, that it is pointed out in prophecy as due to begin the exercise of power in A.D. 1878, and that the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty (Rev. 16:14) which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced. The gathering of the armies is plainly visible from the standpoint of God's word." (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, The Time Is At Hand, 1889 Ed., p. 101. The 1915 Edition of this texts changed "A.D. 1914" to read 'A.D. 1915')

1889 "Remember that the forty years' Jewish Harvest ended October A.D. 69, and was followed by the complete overthrow of that nation; and that likewise the forty years of the Gospel age harvest will end October, 1914, and that likewise the overthrow of 'Christendom,' so-called, must be expected to immediately follow." (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, p. 245)

Anyone here still part of "Christendom" as the Watchtower defines it?

Well 1914 came and went with nothing. No lesson learned though.

1917 Also, in the year 1918, when God destroys the churches wholesale and the church members by million, it shall be that any that escape shall come to the works of Pastor Russell to learn the meaning of the downfall of Christianity. (The Finished Mystery, 1917 edition, p. 485)

So does anybody remember studying this event in history?

"The year 1925 is a date definitely and clearly marked in the Scriptures, even more clearly than that of 1914." (The Watchtower, 7-15-24, p. 211)

And we all know how well that prediction went off!

1917 'There will be no slip-up...Abraham should enter upon the actual possession of his promised inheritance in the year 1925' (Watchtower Oct. 15, 1917, p. 6157)

There will be no slip-up and "should" in the same sentence? Very confident huh?

1918 "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection." (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, p. 89)

We can be confident now. Just how confident though?

"Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures....As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had...." (The Watchtower, 4-1-23, p. 106)

Now what did Noah have? The words of God himself. So apparently, the Watchtower must rank pretty high up there.

"It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the consecrated the thought that 1925 should see an end of the work.... Diligence now and to the end seems absolutely essential to victory." (The Watchtower, 9-1-25, p. 262)

Now who was stating 1925?

"Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not so state." (The Watchtower, 8-1-26, p. 232)

So we had more certainty than Noah who had the statement of the Lord, but the Lord did not state, though Franz just told us....So what's the indictment on them? Let's see what the WT says.

1929 'If these prophesies have not been fulfilled, and if all possibility of fulfilment is past, then these prophets are proven false.' (Prophecy, 1929, p 22)

Now what did Deuteronomy 18 say again? So what went wrong?

"True, there have been those in times past who predicted an 'end to the world,' even announcing a specific date.... Yet, nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing?.... Missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that he was guiding and using them." (Awake, 10-8-68, p. 23)

So then, based on this, what can we judge about the Watchtower? They're not guided and used by God. Got it!

1966 "In this twentieth century an independent study has been carried on that does not blindly follow some traditional chronological calculations of Christendom, and the published timetable resulting from this independent study gives the date of man's creation as 4026 B.C.E. So six thousand years of man's existence on earth will soon be up, yes, within this generation." (Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God, p29, 1966 [Note: 4026 BC to 1975AD = 6000 years])

Dang. I thought they'd learned to not set dates.

1968 "More recently, the book entitled "Famine-1975!" [by W. & P. Paddock, 1967, pp. 52,55,61.] said concerning today's food shortages: "Hunger is rampant throughout country after country, continent after continent around the undeveloped belt of the tropics and subtropics. Today's crisis can move in only one direction -toward catastrophe. Today hungry nations; tomorrow starving nations." … "By 1975 civil disorder, anarchy, military dictatorships, runaway inflation, transportation breakdowns and chaotic unrest will be the order of the day in many of the hungry nations." (The Truth That Leads To Eternal Life, p 88-89, 1968)

Hey! What happened to that Famine book?

1968 "But what about today? Today we have the evidence required, all of it. And it is overwhelming! All the many, many parts of the great sign of the last days are here, together with verifying Bible chronology." (Awake!, Oct. 8, 1968, p. 23)

Remember people. We have overwhelming evidence.

1969 "in view of the short time left, a decision to pursue a career in this system of things is not only unwise but extremely dangerous....Many young brothers and sisters were offered scholarship or employment that promised fine pay. However, they turned them down and put spiritual interests first." (Kingdom Ministry, June 1969, p. 3)

Wow. Giving up future advancements. The people must have been convinced!

1969 "There is only a short time left before Jehovah will destroy this wicked system of things." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1969)

Everyone get marshmallows ready

1971 "Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day of Jehovah" will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom." (The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah; 1971; 2nd ed.; p. 216)

What century is it again?

1976 "It may be that some who have been serving God have planned their lives according to a mistaken view of just what was to happen on a certain date or in a certain year. They may have, for this reason, put off or neglected things that they otherwise would have cared for. But they have missed the point of the Bibles warnings concerning the end of this system of things, thinking that Bible chronology reveals the specific date." (Watchtower, July 15, 1976, p. 440)

So if anyone believed what God's organization said, it was their fault...

1980 If the wicked system of this world survived until the turn of the century (the year 2000), which is highly improbable in view of world trends and the fulfillment of Bible prophecy, there would still be survivors of the World War I generation. However, the fact that their number is dwindling is one more indication that "the conclusion of the system of things" is moving fast toward its end. (The Watchtower, Oct. 15, 1980, p. 31)

Highly improbable but....

1984 Some of that "generation (of 1914)" could survive until the end of the century. But there are many indications that "the end" is much closer than that! (The Watchtower, March 1, 1984 pp. 18-19)

Hindsight's a great thing isn't it?

1989 "The apostle Paul was spearheading the Christian missionary activity. He was also laying a foundation for a work that would be completed in our 20th century." (Watchtower, Jan. 1, 1989, p. 12 [bound volume changed "20th century" to "day"])

So why the change? Oh right! It wasn't completed!

1993 (The society's latest 'History' book - "Jehovah's Witnesses, Proclaimers of God's Kingdom", 1993) [Note: At the end of this book there is a chronological section called 'Notable Dates'. The predictions for 1925 and 1975 don't even get a mention.]

So what can we conclude?

1972 "Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a 'prophet' of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. What does it show?" (Watchtower April 1, 1972, p. 197)

What does it show and what sayeth Scripture then?

045683
June 9th 2005, 11:14 AM
Snore zzzzz zzzzz, couldn't you at least be a little bit original with your accusations?

Faramir
June 9th 2005, 11:49 AM
Snore zzzzz zzzzz, couldn't you at least be a little bit original with your accusations?

This is new to some of us. Would you care to actually comment on why you tink this is "Snore zzzzz zzzzz". In other words, enlighten me.

Meh_Gerbil
June 9th 2005, 11:50 AM
Snore zzzzz zzzzz, couldn't you at least be a little bit original with your accusations?

The JW's have several false prophecies to account for, including that the Patriarchs would return in 1925. This is no small issue, despite the attempt to pretend it is a sleeper.

ApologiaPhoenix
June 9th 2005, 11:54 AM
Snore zzzzz zzzzz, couldn't you at least be a little bit original with your accusations?

My apologies. I didn't realize giving evidence for Deuteronomy 18 on an issue that could effect one's eternal destination would be a snoozer......

Of course, I'm still waiting for someone to explain how all of these can be false and this can still be "God's organization." My God has this thing that when he says something is going to happen, it's going to happen.

Let's be fair now. Both the Watchtower and God have a 100% perfect record with prophecy. God is 100% right every time, and the Watchtower is 100% wrong every time.

045683
June 9th 2005, 12:32 PM
This topic has been done to death on soo many forums, do a search.........

edit ok heres a link for you here (http://homepages.picknowl.com.au/hepburn/prophecy.htm)



Gratuitus links to other forums are against the rules here. They can be construed as advertising. Please don't do it.

Also, 045683, if you don't want to actually participate in a thread, please don't post. Just posting snipes at the OP is rude. At least make some intelligent conversation or arguments.

Thanks, and God Bless.

ApologiaPhoenix
June 9th 2005, 12:38 PM
This isn't about their justification for it. This is about your justification for it. You're awfully hesitant to do so which is quite revealing. Why don't you tell me how you can follow an organization that has made false prophecies when Deuteronomy tells you that such a crime was even punishable by death. It's something God takes seriously. How will you justify that action to God?